BB28 Devens Deep Dive

[00:00:09] what's going on? Rob Sestadino here and we have such a treat here for you today because first off, it's my honor to jump in here for a little bit of the deep dive action here as I get to watch the master at work, Taryn Armstrong, as we welcome in the champion of Big Brother 28. Here he is. It's

[00:00:33] Rick Devens. What is up, Taryn? What is up, Rob? It's so good to be here. Thank you guys for inviting me on. Yes, I'm so excited to catch up with you. I feel like my friend just got out of jail and we now get to catch up. How has it been since you've been in the slammer? Dude, I feel the exact same way. Like I just got out of jail. I can finally catch up with my friend. It's been good. I've got Melvin here. He has been attached to my hip since I got home. All the animals have.

[00:01:02] I just got back from a school council meeting at my daughter's elementary school. We're getting back in the swing of things, Rob. Yeah, well, it's great to get the chance to catch up. Taryn is coming off of the epic deep dive with Drew. Taryn, how are you doing? I'm doing great. Ready for more deep diving. I see you've got your gear on, Rob. You're ready to come with me a little bit here?

[00:01:29] I'm ready. I'm so excited to be just even to just be a fly on the wall here today. You're just going to sit in a chair and watch? I'm going to sit in a chair. Don't put me in the Chuck chair. I don't want to do that. It's Chuck time. It's Chuck time. Yes. Okay. What's the Chuck chair? You know what, Rick? It's just so long to explain.

[00:01:53] Don't trust Chuck. Yeah. Yeah. But Rick, this is so fun. And who's had a better year than you in the reality TV world? The iconic run in Survivor 50. And we said, how could you top this? Like, why don't I just go on big brother and win the whole damn show? Yeah. No one's more surprised

[00:02:20] than I am that I, a was on big brother and B that I, that I actually pulled off a win. Did not see this coming. Major identity crisis. Honestly, I'm like, so in my mind, survivor coded. And now half of reality fans think of me more as a big brother player. It's kind of weird. Yeah. Are you able just to tell us before we get into everything of just like when they call you and they say, Hey, Rick, we have an idea. We want you to do big brother this summer. Was there any

[00:02:49] trepidation on your part about going into a world that was relatively unfamiliar to you? Big time. Like I, I, at first I was like, Oh man, I'm so touched. I don't think I can do this. Like I got to go tell Becca and I'll pitch it to her, but I don't think it's going to happen. And I told my wife Becca and she was basically just like, you have to do it. Like, they're not going to ask you again next summer. It's only because of survivor 50. You have to do it.

[00:03:19] Cause she didn't want to deal with me watching the show and being like, Oh, I could, you know, that could have been me. Um, so as soon as she said that, it was like, Oh wow, we got to really think about this. And I had a ton of trepidation. I basically, you know, I was giving myself the whole pep talk. Like, Hey, if you get out early, then you're not away that long. So no big deal. You know, nothing's going to hurt your, you know, stupid survivor legacy. It's fine. Um,

[00:03:44] but I never thought it would turn out well, like I had no indication it would turn out. Well, I thought it would be, I thought it was going to be like half quote unquote icons and half newbies. And I was like, Ooh, maybe I can get with the newbies. Like none of the icons will even know me. There'll be big brother people, maybe people from the challenge. I had no idea what I was getting into Rob. I thought I was there for a good time. Not a long time. You know what? Uh, that is not

[00:04:10] dissimilar to how many of us thought this experience was going to go. I am happy to say, Rick, you did, I did have you in the draft. And so, uh, you, you did bring it home for me. So I also feel like I am a winner too, for once, but, um, yeah, I really, I thought that this would be the classic Rick Devon story maybe of you just playing from the bottom the whole time and creating exciting TV. And we found out that you actually can play well, uh, from the majority too.

[00:04:39] Yeah. Who knew man, who knew it was really, I mean, I guess we'll get into it, but yeah, the way the game kind of started to come to me and present itself. And I feel like I started to get into the groove of things. And in a lot of ways, because I wasn't able to do some of the things I'm allowed to do on survivor. And because the game was so long and I really, every morning when I woke up was giving myself a little pep talk to slow down and pace myself. Like, I think it all,

[00:05:10] obviously it worked out a lot of luck involved always in these things, but it's so, it's so funny that you talk about, uh, slowing down. You still played a very aggressive game, uh, or big brother, which is, which is typical of what we've seen of survivor players. Now having seen three of them, uh, you guys are used to such a faster pace. Um, and I think that definitely sort of dominated the narrative of both you and D, uh, and how you played, especially like the first half of the game

[00:05:37] where it was kind of like not a lot of patience for, uh, for just kind of like sitting tight and not blindsiding people. Dude. So true. So true. I mean, there were times and I'm sure, you know, again, I haven't watched an episode yet. I'm going to, like, I look forward to sitting down and watching and I haven't seen a lot of the live feeds, only clips that people have sent me, but I know that there are times when D and I would get together and we would just laugh. We're like, why are we doing this? We're doing this just because we think we can like, and we're kind of bored.

[00:06:06] Uh, and it's not great gameplay, but as much as we were good influences on each other, there were times when we were absolutely bad influences on each other. And we're so used to Rob, you know, this from your survivor stuff, like you basically need to be the last person to come up with that plan right before tribal. Anything you do even earlier that afternoon is going to fall apart by the time tribals there. Whereas big brother, it seems like you, your, your plan is set days ahead of time and you just have to sit and wait. If this person wins blockbuster, we do this. If they don't, we do this.

[00:06:37] But D and I really started to go, you know, I think we can turn this right before the vote. I think we can do this if we just wait till like a couple hours before the eviction. Um, and, and we got into the bad habit or good habit of starting to do that. Well, Rick that typically in big brother, we talk about why, Hey, it's waffle Wednesday. Well, they had to rename it waffle Wednesday because, uh, you all were doing stuff on Thursday and sometimes like an hour before the vote. Yeah. It's, you know,

[00:07:05] in survivor, you never know when you're going to be stopped. Like you're watching the sun go down and you go anytime. Now they might tell us, you know, time to get on the boat. We can't talk anymore. You know exactly when it's happening on big brother. So it's like, all right, we'll just wait and wait and wait. And then let's kick it into gear right here. And we had again, playing from the majority, we had enough people to attack different angles that we were able to kind of do stuff like that. And everyone seemed to be enjoying it. Like there's dude, big brother

[00:07:35] long days. What's that? I don't, I don't think Kamu enjoyed it. Oh, I love Kamu. I still, I still feel bad about the Kamus and the Roms and the people that got caught up in everything, but tell me about your, your prep work because we, we talked to Christian, uh, at the start of the season about like what he had talked about. Um, and I know that you

[00:08:02] came in not wanting to win early competitions, which I was like, Christian, what do you, what do you, who's, who's giving Devin's information to say not to win the first stage. It's the most powerful position in the entire game. Uh, so tell me about what you learned and what you had prepped for and how much time you had. Oh, that's so funny. I, everyone who told me anything was like, don't win HOH early. You're just going to make your enemies of

[00:08:29] everything. So I didn't do much, honestly, of my own prep work. I, I was just trying to like really fit in that last time with the family, with all that. I did watch, uh, you know, a few seasons. Like I watched Angela's season. Thank goodness. Uh, and got familiar with her just to see how things had evolved because I was a big, big brother watcher. And I think the last season I'd watched was the cookout just because all these survivor things started happening. My summer started filling up. And when you come back and you're

[00:08:58] in the middle of a big brother season, it's hard to, for me to jump in because there's so much ketchup, but Christian was a huge help. He listened to like a Corey Wurtenberger podcast that talked about all these things and sent me all these like notes. Couldn't have been more helpful. Um, Aubrey, huge help. She was one of the very few people that I told that I was going on there and she had like covered the show with Dalton Ross, uh, for a few seasons. But a lot of my prep work turned out to be totally useless because it was making up fake

[00:09:27] advantages that I could sell to people. And I had a list. I mean, I had a plan. Bro. And then of course, pregame, you're meeting with producers and everything. And they say, by the way, you can't make anything up. If you, you know, if you lie about an advantage, we're going to make you go back and tell them that that wasn't true. And I'm like, wait, what? Uh, I think Dalton just wrote an article about this. I was so, I was like, that's like my whole idea, my shtick, you know, to bring in here. Um, you tell us one fake advantage you made up,

[00:09:54] Rick. Oh my gosh. Oh, it's on my phone, which is here in front of me. Yeah. It was going to be like that America had voted because I thought, you know, if I'm coming back, it's, it would be feasible to get an America's vote. And also I could say, Hey guys, America likes me. Yeah. You know, you want to work with the one that America's rooting for, but it was that they voted that at any, I think it was any eviction. I could, it was basically the cootie top cootie top, but it was,

[00:10:21] there was a twist to it. I forget what it was. Aubrey helped me develop the whole thing. Like I came up with a real messy version and she's like, here's something that would actually make sense big brother wise. Um, so the threat would just be like, do whatever you want with me, but just know at the last second I could put up your biggest ally was basically the threat. Um, so it was like diamond power of veto, except that I would get to use it even later. Yeah. You manifested it.

[00:10:45] I think so. I must've. All right. Well, you come into the game, uh, and, uh, and you were the, the second person to arrive after Angela. Yes, sir. Uh, what is, what is your thought process coming into the game? You see the people there, you see Angela, uh, what's going on in your head? I was, I was, I was like, they're not even going to know who I am. I could actually for, for,

[00:11:14] I mean, less than a minute, you know, cause you come in that front door, I can see through the mirrors behind the mirror. There you go. Um, and so I could see them and I could hear them and they were talking about how they'd just gotten back from the challenge that brought me in, you know, the jungle challenge that they'd gone on. And someone thought, Hey, it might be a survivor player because we were in the jungle and someone goes, Oh, Boston, Rob, Boston, Rob. And they all get

[00:11:39] all excited. And I'm like, this is going to be such a disappointment. They're not even going to know who I am when I walked through the door. And most of them didn't. Uh, but I walked in and I could see a few faces. Um, Barrett said Devin's like knew who I was. Angela seemed so excited, which I was relieved about because Angela having just watched her season was someone I was very scared to play with. Um, but it was cool. I mean, right away, I was almost like, it's probably better

[00:12:07] that they don't know who I am. Like if they don't know who I am, like how big of a threat could I be? You know, I can sell them about the way I play the game, which I told them I played a very loyal game. And I believe that like, I do think in survivor, I've been a super loyal ally to everyone I worked with. Um, but dude, it was, it was very intimidating coming in and they'd already gotten to meet each other. I've got, I guess it was 15 people there, you know, waiting for me that I'm

[00:12:33] trying to meet all at the same time. Sorry, Taylor. Apparently I didn't give everyone their love right away. Um, which I didn't even realize until she told me later that afternoon, I guess we might get to that, but, uh, it was intimidating, man. Well, yeah. Tell me about, uh, learning about the, cause that was like the first iteration of any kind of like drama was like, there was something between you and Taylor were like, what's going on here? Yeah, totally. And first of all, again,

[00:12:59] like I thought coming into this whole thing, then it was going to be half of us were returning players at least to, to find out that it was three of us was like, Oh man, talk about sitting ducks. Like what are we even doing here? That reminded me of edge of extinction where my first season, the survivor where there were four returning players. And on my tribe, we kind of ingratiated ourselves to them. Like I became very close to David. We protected them on the comma tribe.

[00:13:24] It was they're dead right away. They're, they're totally screwed. The first chance we get. So I wasn't confident in that regard. So yeah, I come in, there's 15 people. I'm trying to meet everybody like hugs, shakes, whatever they want from me. And Taylor, I think says, Hey, I'm Taylor. And I just kind of like, ha ha ha. Like, Hey, I can't do names right now. I'm not going to remember names. I'm sorry. Moved on. Didn't even think it was a thing. And then later when things slowed down a

[00:13:51] little bit, I was going around, I was like, Hey, you know, I'm Rick. What, what? And she was like, Oh, now you want to know my name? And I was like, Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. This is not good. I apologize profusely. I tried to own it. She was very cool about it at that point. I think at that point she realized I wasn't trying to be a jerk. Then I was just made a, you know, made a mistake socially. Um, and because we'll get to this too, we ended up being have nots together. Like we had some

[00:14:19] really great bonding time later in that week. And I think at that point, she definitely realized that that wasn't who she thought I was is not who I am. Like I was not trying to big time anybody. I hope Rob would support me on the fact that I, I do not, I'm not a big time person. Yeah. That they, they showed that clip on, I think it was the first big brother unlocked. And it seemed like that you just, uh, like, we're like at like 15 people that were trying to talk to you at that

[00:14:45] moment. Very overwhelming. And I'm like excited that Angela's there. Like, which I guess is kind of plays into what Taylor said. It's like, Oh wait, there's Angela. Like that's exciting. But no, it was just, it was just very overwhelming. Um, gave a really bad first impression to Taylor, but luckily she let me back into her good graces. Well, you also had the, uh, the sort of switcheroo where Rachel comes in initially and then is swapped

[00:15:11] out with D. Uh, obviously that's a pretty big swing for you. Oh my gosh, dude. Yeah. And so before I even get into this, I just want to say I've met Rachel once before. It was at the event in Atlanta for survivor 50 and she could not have been more pleasant and nicer to me and to Becca. Yeah. The wrong card Academy. Exactly. What did I say?

[00:15:35] You said the event. Oh yeah. So it was, she was so great, but when she came in now, I know, you know, that she was just playing her character. She came in like a wrecking ball, dude. It was insane. So I had just seen Angela's season and now Rachel comes in and I think we're the three icons. And I'm like, this is a nightmare. This is, this is going to be the worst summer of my life.

[00:16:02] Um, because I'm just like the, you know, these are two people that bring the most drama, uh, to big brother. And Rachel was selling that. I mean, she was talking about alliances with people within the first five minutes. She played her role. She could not have been better knowing now that it was just a fake out. She was so funny, but I was like, this is going to be real bad for me. This is not going to be good. This is not like an Emily Flippin, a Christian, you make David, right? The people

[00:16:31] I'm used to working with. Uh, so I was terrified, man. And then like Mallory was making jokes at Rachel. I remember Mallory, who's actually a huge Rachel fan said something to Rachel that came off as like, we got to get rid of her. And it wasn't meant that way at all. And Rachel was getting like very upset about it. And so I came in, I was like, Hey, Rachel, just so you know, Mallory was just saying what a huge fan she is of you. And Rachel looks right at me and she goes,

[00:17:00] you're trying to be a peacemaker and that might work on survivor, but we don't do that in big brother. And I was like, Whoa, Oh my God. I've I'm so screwed. Man. I wish we had seen more of this in the episodes. I think you'll be disappointed in how little we got of Rachel, unfortunately. Oh, dude. She could not have been better knowing now that she was just there to intimidate us. Like she made an impression big time. And you can see it in Angela's face. Like she wasn't happy that Rachel was there. It was like, this is going to be

[00:17:30] a long summer. Thank goodness that Raptor came. The Velociraptor comes, shoves Rachel into a volcano and outcomes D instead. What are your thoughts there? I, I had so much relief because even when I, when it became clear that something was going on with this Raptor and Rachel, I was like, Oh no, you know, it's going to be another big

[00:17:56] brother person. I wonder who it's going to be. And then a survivor comes out and D and I had a weird relationship where I was the on fire host. And then she was the on fire host after me. And D is very competitive. Uh, and I'm very competitive. I think that immediately put us kind of in a competitive spirit where it's like, she wanted to be the better host probably was. Um, and then we go out on 50 together. And I think she and Charlie and I end up on a tribe

[00:18:25] after the swap, the three different on fire host. And in my mind, I'm definitely like, I want to survive longer than these other on fire hosts. She went after Charlie. I don't know if that had anything to do with it. Um, but we never even pretended like we were going to work together. Like it was fun being on the Island with her. She's an easy person to live with on the tribe, but like never talked to game one time after the game in Ponderosa. We did kind of be able to,

[00:18:54] we were able to talk about this stuff. And she talked about how she enjoyed watching me from the jury bench and how, Oh, if only we could have worked together. And we had a great time in Ponderosa just partying, drinking every morning and every evening. Like it was all good, but that was, that's about the extent of our relationship is that we'd never worked together in the game. We're a little bit competitive with each other. And we ended up realizing that we do like each

[00:19:20] other. So when she came out, I did think I want to work with D I hope she wants to work with me is basically where my head was. I feel like that it's something that's so interesting about you that I think part of your appeal is that the people who sit on the jury really fall in love with you. Like they really, they like the, for the people who are out of the game, they sit there and they say like, well, that's the kind of guy that's who I'd like to play. Like, and it really, you know, you didn't get to sit in front of that jury in either of your survivor instances, but you did win

[00:19:50] an ally in this game from somebody who was sitting watching you on the jury. Yeah. It is weird that way, because I feel like that's exactly true. I think they just like that. But I did pretty well with this jury also. I know, right? Right. I don't know. I, I certainly, when I look at survivor and when I look at big brother, I like people who play big games.

[00:20:15] I think there's a lot of people that do play amazing under the radar games, but there's also a lot of people who are just under the radar, not really playing that much who then revisionist history. And those other big brother fans come in and start like putting game on them. That wasn't necessarily theirs. An example of Rizzo is someone who I thought in season 50 was not playing. And then I got out and I actually watched the episode and I was like, oh, that's a genius under

[00:20:44] the radar game. I didn't see it, but it was obvious that he was pulling strings. I think there are other people who get out and they say, oh, I didn't show up in the edit, but I was playing this amazing game. And you go, I don't know about that. I feel like that's something they probably would have shown in the edit. So I don't know. I do think that when I've been in the games, I always play a big game, like to my detriment. Often at times, that's a big part of the reason

[00:21:10] probably why I didn't succeed on either survivor season. Um, and why I had to get lucky at times this season or had to compete this season, which again, we'll get to that. I think winning competitions because you're a threat is a good thing. I, you know, we'll get to that later. But, um, yeah, it is funny that the juries, even though some of them don't play the same game as I do, once they're out, seem to really enjoy someone who's attacking the game, someone who's getting up every morning and really trying to make the most of being in the game.

[00:21:41] Yeah. I mean, I think that was really like the main characteristic of your gameplay this season was just how active you were and how not just active you were in terms of like socializing and making relationships, but in terms of like just being willing to make the move. Uh, it's something that we've talked about a lot, especially in the blockbuster era is that, uh, it's been riddled with

[00:22:07] HOHs that nominate their own allies because they're scared of pissing people off. Uh, really timid gameplay because of all the uncertainty that comes with the veto and the blockbuster. And you came in here like, no, I'm just going for it. Like I'm going after the big targets. I'm going to win the competitions. I'm going to use the powers. Um, I'm going to make alliances and then

[00:22:32] break them the next week. Uh, like there was a fearlessness, I think to your game that I, that I also think was like the, the key, not only to like you making it far, but certainly this jury thing that we're talking about. I think, uh, the jury really respects players that, that are able to play without fear. And it's obviously the complete opposite of kind of how like Vince played last season when he didn't win, uh, the jury. Um, and so, uh, yeah, I think that's a huge component here.

[00:23:00] And I think, thank you. Uh, and I think that that is something that I definitely brought in, like my experience on survivor helped. Um, because the one thing when people ask, what would you tell people who are going on these shows? Fearlessness is exactly what I try to bring in what I tell people. Like you're probably going to get voted out. You're probably going to get voted out because you did something stupid and the whole world's going to make fun of you for it. Just accept that

[00:23:26] and go in there and have as much fun as you can. And I listen, everything I have is because I was lucky enough to be on an edge of extinction season. Uh, otherwise I would have gone home fourth on season 38 and I'd be a footnote in survivor history. And I was scared when I went home fourth. Like I thought it was going to be me or Lauren who went out on that vote. And I didn't want to rock the boat so much that it put the target on me. And I ended up going out quietly.

[00:23:54] And so when I came back in on edge of extinction, I again, came in big, came in, not scared to rock the boat and did everything I could to always keep myself safe, to always, you know, make the moves that I would want to see on TV to an extent. Uh, and then I brought that same energy for 50 and I tried to bring it for big brother too. Yeah. All right. Well,

[00:24:16] let's get into week one. Uh, you, uh, you are forced you D and Angela to win the first HOH, um, which, uh, I think is huge, right? Like, cause D also seems to be under the impression that you shouldn't win the first HOH. Uh, and she was kind of thinking, I think at the time that she was going to throw it. Um, but instead you're forced to, and, and this is the reason why I say one of the

[00:24:42] reasons why I say that you should win the first HOH. First of all, statistically, it just has been the most successful HOH I think there is, uh, in terms of like making it deep in the game and even winning the game. Um, when you're first meeting people and making relationships, you all have to funnel through that HOH. They have their pick of the litter of like who they want to work with. And as long as you aren't making massive mistakes with who you want to work with or weird wild swings with things,

[00:25:10] uh, it's usually like a pretty good setup for you, especially if you have experience and, uh, and you might have like a little bit of an initial target because of your status. Uh, it's a great position to sort of work from. And so, uh, D getting this first HOH pretty huge for, for really all three of you. Yeah, it was great. And again, like knowing right away, very briefly meeting with Angela and D,

[00:25:36] I did feel like I'm going to be good week one. Like they're there, we're not going to come out to each other right away. That would be so reckless. You know, it's three against 14 in terms and we're coming in, they're calling us icons. Like we, we did not know that we were going to be called icons. Like help us out here a little bit, big brother. Um, but it's so funny because yeah, I did go in with the complete misconception that like people don't want to win early. You can stay under the radar and not

[00:26:03] make enemies. Um, but I did realize very quickly, especially week two, like, gosh, man, because I won HOH and we'll get to that, that you can make a lot more friends than enemies, um, as HOH. And like, you shouldn't be afraid to win things. But that being said, I thought it was a bad idea to win. I wanted to win everything. I was, I was coming in like Tucker. I was like, why would I come to a show and leave my family at home to throw stuff like that? I'm just not coded that way. So I did end up

[00:26:32] knocking my puzzle over with my ass and blowing it. Uh, but I was trying to win. I wasn't throwing anything. I think it turned out great that D ended up winning, um, and setting us up on a successful thing because you're right. Even though I didn't know the things you just said in terms of being a student of the game, that's exactly how it worked out where we were able to find people that we wanted to work with and that wanted to work with us, um, and set up those two different alliances in

[00:26:59] week one, which was the red corner and, uh, the crossover Alliance. So, uh, it was, it was awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And this really felt like, uh, I think the word I kept coming back to in week one was textbook. It was just like, by the book, this is exactly like, well, this feels like it's been prepped, uh, because like you guys know what you're doing, whether it was prepped specifically for big

[00:27:23] brother or just your experience on survivor, uh, you knew exactly where to go, how to set things up and using the, the power that you guys had to create these overlapping, slightly overlapping sort of different alliances, which creates this big, bigger overall structure puts you in a majority position. Um, and, and it was really good because the red corner, they were targets. They were the

[00:27:48] cool kids. Uh, and the crossovers were like the loyal, uh, Alliance that gave you a little bit of extra power and, and like an in it into the other side to some degree withdrew getting in with melody and bear it in with, uh, Mallory. And, and they were also like in deeper things at that time, uh, as before they eventually sort of like gravitated more and more to you. And so this, this initial week one position was like really, really powerful and really strong. And I thought,

[00:28:17] and I think a lot of people thought like this could be run all the way to the end. Oh, wow. Yeah. Well, it was great. And then all really kind of came together because in my mind there was like this, and again, this, I haven't watched it and, and this is all happened a long time ago, like a hundred plus days ago. So correct me if I'm getting any of my timelines wrong, but it seemed like right away there was this cult of Rome, like Rome is such a great

[00:28:42] dude. Yeah. The Roman empire. He's so magnetic. And it seemed like people immediately were just drawn to him in a way that was going to be really dangerous, uh, for the rest of us, because he would go out of his way to be like, Oh, I haven't seen your seasons. Like, Oh, I don't watch reality TV. Like we were like, we get it. Uh, we get it. Um, but so I felt like we had to set ourselves up because it was already becoming a split house. So how do we get the people that are going to

[00:29:12] be able to watch our back? And the cool kids seemed like they were not liked by that other side of the house. So they were almost driven right into our arms. And then Barrett and Drew were just dudes that I was drawn to immediately. Uh, I really liked them. They were people who actually knew us from survivor. So knew in some extent, like the way we played the game and wanted to play with us because they, they, they knew that. Um, and that's what I thought at the time. I, maybe you can tell me if

[00:29:40] that's not true. And then Angela is someone who I never thought I would play with, you know, we're locked in together because we're icons. And it turns out she's a totally different person than what I had witnessed watching the show. It seemed. Um, so yeah, it all, I think the other side of the house didn't do themselves any favors in terms of, um, kind of driving these people into our arms. Yeah. Well, there was an initial discussion about, uh, like, who do you tell

[00:30:09] about which Alliance and when, uh, one of the dilemmas being, should we tell Angela about red corner? And then should we tell Barrett and Drew about red corner? Uh, and you know, we saw that you got a little bit of a talking to from D after telling Barrett and Drew, uh, and, uh, famously, Julie was like, he doesn't know what he's doing after that moment. Yeah. She came at me, huh? Uh,

[00:30:35] yeah. I got a lot, a lot of talking tos from D throughout the season and she was right almost all the time, but no, I, if I, I was under the impression and D told me like, this is our gang, like the crossover. I want to be open with that. I want to share that information that just brings them closer to us. Uh, that's always been my MO as Rob knows from survivor. Like if I've got a number one Alliance, I'm wide open with that Alliance. I, they can trust me and I can trust them.

[00:31:04] And I want to be able to talk these things out. Um, D I guess when, when to play a little more compartmentalized, uh, I think it worked out for us, uh, in the end. Like I, I, again, not that she was wrong, but I do think it seemed from my perspective to bring Drew and Barrett closer. And I just don't want them. It's kind of my whole thing with Drew all season was I always see you with these other

[00:31:30] people. It's hard to trust that you're totally with me. So if he's always going to see me with the cool kids and I'm not telling him what I got going on over there, how's he going to trust me? So I wanted he and Barrett to know, and Angela, like, listen, I'm with you. I'm locked in with you. This is that other thing I've got going on. And I'm going to keep you in the know about it. That's where my head was at.

[00:31:53] Well, uh, speaking of Rome, uh, he did have an alliance called mama's angels. Uh, it was Jason Lala and Rome. Um, I knew about his little love fest with lyric and Jason, but he had a lot of, I knew he was with Lala and Jason didn't know they were mama's angels. That was, that was basically the other side. And this was sort of one of the stories of the first week is that there was, I think,

[00:32:20] a little bit of an overestimation in terms of how coordinated that side was. Cause it really was just like the three of them talking strategy. Rome of course had his thing with lyric, uh, and lyric was involved and they talked to Josh and you know, Lala had Taylor. Uh, but like, even like melody, they weren't even with melody at that point. Um, they saw melody as somebody on the other side. Uh, they, you know, Mallory was on the block. Like it, it was pretty disorganized. And, uh, and one of

[00:32:49] the, the sort of critiques I think that, uh, that I had initially of, uh, of your sort of structure was that you were looking to potentially keep Ashley because she was a number for you, which was, which was true to some degree. Um, but, uh, and this wasn't sort of involving you specifically, but, uh, you know, D and Barrett and drew went to Ashley and had her do a bunch of the campaigning cause they were worried that you guys didn't have the votes that the other side would be really

[00:33:17] coordinated in their efforts to, to get rid of Ashley. And the reality was that you guys, you had the influence and the power to do whatever you wanted. If you just, if you just pushed a little bit and by pushing it onto Ashley and having her do the campaigning, she ends up watching the whole thing naming the entire group, uh, which is what sets melody off and gets her all fearful that there's a side, which there was, uh, and tries to coordinate with the other side, which really pushed

[00:33:44] her to that other side, uh, in a spot where she probably could have been pulled in by drew. Uh, and so there was a bit of a mess going on there. That's interesting. No, I w I was pretty unaware of that. Like, because D was in power and we had set up this Alliance again, this is all trying to remember back to where I was, but I think I tried to basically stay out of it. Week one, like I didn't

[00:34:10] want people that weren't part of those alliances to know that D and I were already working together other than like, of course, we're going to keep each other somewhat safe, but we don't get a lot. Like I was really trying to undersell our relationship. Ashley's someone I wanted around more than anything for entertainment value. Like one of the most effortlessly funny people I've ever met in my life and intentionally. So like she does some things that I, she might not be aware of, but

[00:34:34] she knows that she's funny and she's like, have her on a podcast, give her her own podcast, Rob. She's absolutely incredible. Um, but, uh, I'm with Ashley. Yeah. But like Yash wanted to work with me and we didn't know Yash at all then. Like the Yash in those first couple of weeks is not the Yash I know and love now. Like he was just, he was all about being bros, but because we're strong,

[00:35:00] like he wasn't being his funny, authentic self. Um, I, I would joke at the time that I didn't think he knew he was allowed to make alliances with women because it was all about the guys, but clearly like that evolved as we went on. So I was really, I didn't care who stayed. I definitely thought the other side was more organized than you're just telling me now, even until you told me that I thought that, um, but I just felt comfortable in the group we had. I was happy to let them take the lead.

[00:35:28] Like it's D's HOH. I didn't want her thinking I was doing too much. And I didn't want other people thinking that her and I were coordinating as much as we were. But I think it is fair to say that there was some anti icon sentiment, maybe not necessarily from Rome, but certainly, uh, Jason really did not love Rick being in the house. Lala was one of the people who very quickly when the icons came in. It's like, okay, they had another time they had to go. So they weren't as

[00:35:54] organized as maybe you might've thought, but they're definitely like, they weren't necessarily loving that you were there. Yeah. I I've seen just a few clips and Jason is someone who I loved meeting. And I had no idea that he felt that I was like stealing his thunder the way that he was like, I thought it seems like he really saw me as a, someone who was going to compete for airtime as

[00:36:21] much as anything else. Um, that I was stealing his jokes before he even made them. That was one that fishback sent me that he thought was especially funny. Uh, but no, he, he did a really good job in terms of me, uh, hiding his, that sentiment from me. Like I was convinced, I didn't think Jason was with me, but I thought Jason and I had a really good relationship. Uh, he's someone I thought was going to be dangerous in the house, but I didn't get an anti icon vibe from him. Little did I know

[00:36:49] that he should have been an icon also like that's a, that's a strange decision to me that he wasn't named and labeled as an icon. Uh, I feel like he should have been in terms of fairness. Like who got a better draw than Jason? Give me a break. But, um, but no, that that's really interesting. That was interesting coming out of the house to find out that he was after us immediately. That is something that basically drew filled us in on the next week or two, um, that Jason was being

[00:37:17] very open with other people in the house about wanting to get rid of us. Yeah. So it's Jason and Lala who are the most anti icon for sure. And they're both specifically, mostly anti you because they think that D doesn't know what she's doing at this point. Um, and they say you is the bigger threat. Uh, so mama's angels is definitely like an anti you sort of alliance, but you have a conversation with Rome that really seems to disarm him.

[00:37:44] Uh, you have a couple of conversations with him, uh, where you essentially gave him like the lions and hyenas pitch of like, uh, like, Hey, we're, we're the big targets. We're going to need each other. Um, and it really lands with, with Rome. And he does seem to really like you, despite the fact that Jason and Lala are trying to target you. Yeah. Roman, I got along really well and honestly it was corn hole or as he called it bags that I

[00:38:09] think brought us together more than anything. Like we would just play bags all the time and goof around all the time. And I definitely saw him as a huge threat in the game. Like he was very magnetic. It was clear. He had Jason. It was clear. He had Lala. He's bringing people together and teaching him how to work out. Like he's already developing this relationship with Lyric. Um, so I did want

[00:38:34] to have that conversation with him that like, Hey man, the house would love nothing more than you and I coming at each other. You know, let's not give them that gift. Ironically that changed up a little bit. And I meant it when I said it, I was like, let's, let's push this ball down the road. Cause I'm not expecting to win the next HOH. Um, but yeah, that, that was interesting that it landed. And I really did like Rome. I do think there's an alternate universe where we could have come

[00:39:02] together more quickly, but I also feel like he came in very much. I don't know how familiar he is with big brother or not. He certainly sold himself as someone who was a recruit and not familiar with it. And I think he did not want to play someone else's game. Like, I think he wanted to come in and make moves and not float, not be part of an alliance the way that drew and Barrett were willing to be part of a collective. Uh, so that just in my mind was like, he's going to be hard to work with. So

[00:39:30] let's keep him at a distance. Like, like we did with, which was the lines and hyena speech. Like let's not come after each other. Let's keep these lines of communication open. But as opposed to me sharing it with Angela, everything sharing with drew and Barrett, everything like that's not going to be something I'm going to do with Rome. Yeah. And, and I think Rome is, is just, I mean, he certainly made a lot of mistakes, but he, he did strike me as a player that like, if you had given

[00:39:56] him some time to learn how to play and how to operate, he could have been much more dangerous given. So how magnetic he was and drawing people in. Um, but you mentioned, uh, drew, um, and how he filled you in. So this is like the big controversy of the first week of course, is when Jason goes to drew and melody, he tries to pull them in and he makes an alliance. He calls the court gestures with

[00:40:22] them, um, where it's specifically to target you. Uh, and, um, and he tells drew and melody all about how he's like bonded with Angela and then looked at the cameras and how he's planning to bake, like some baked goods for you to like, you know, play up to America's dad and trick you. Um, which worked, he got me with Gigi's birthday celebration. I'm like, this guy's the sweetest man,

[00:40:48] you know? And so we're watching this, uh, Oh, like drew's probably going to bring this back. And he does, but it doesn't quite have the impact that drew might've wanted it to because Angela immediately starts to doubt the information. Um, and D seems to doubt the information. And this is in some ways, the start of like the drew spiral. Uh, and I talked about it with drew where like all he, he always

[00:41:13] brought you accurate information. He was always loyal. Um, but it was always negative information. It was always information you didn't want to hear. And I feel like that was a huge contributor toward like the, the feeling that, uh, certainly it started with Angela spread to D and eventually got to you of like, can we trust this guy? Is he giving us accurate information? Um, so how is your experience of, of this moment when drew's telling you about Jason? I remember being,

[00:41:43] it was a lot. It was a lot. Like the way drew presented, it was very serious. Like he, in his mind, like Jason was doing, was like crossing a line almost in, in like how he was using, um, Angela's perception of him and like the emotional manipulation of like Juju and all this stuff. And knowing about it now, it's like, yeah, you know, there are a lot of lines in reality TV.

[00:42:12] I don't, I don't think, I don't know. I don't, I didn't see it exactly, but like drew didn't feel good about it. And I think that was maybe a problem on a mistake on Jason's part to not realize like drew's got a huge heart. Um, and he's not going to love manipulation just for the sake of manipulation, right? Like that, that might've pushed him a little more towards us. This obviously sets up the whole season where I trust drew more than Angela and D that doesn't mean I trust drew

[00:42:39] completely, but like, I always gave him more benefit of the doubt. I think than those two did. And I always had them in my ear telling me that drew is lying to us and drew is lying to us. And I was always kind of, I think pushing back and saying, but he's telling us this stuff. Like he doesn't have to tell us, but definitely there's, there's a vibe of, yeah, it was all, like you said, it was

[00:43:04] always negative stuff. And it's always to the point where it's like, is he just trying to turn people against each other? You know, he never comes to us, uh, with things that bring us together. It's always trying to drive us apart. And then you have Barrett who was kind of in these same groups. Although I think at this point in the game, he had not ingratiated himself to the other sides as much as drew was able to, um, in terms of at least getting information, maybe it was just

[00:43:28] keeping it to himself, but, but yeah, it, Angela was just suspicious of drew immediately. And that, like you said, infected D and I, those two were obviously my closest Alliance at that point. So I don't want to disregard what they say. I don't know what this guy's doing. He's a young kid. Uh, he wants to make big plays on big brothers. So I think like, is there a likelihood that he's doing

[00:43:55] too much that he thinks he's running everybody? Absolutely. I think that that's a real consideration. So, and that went all season with drew all season. It was like, I love him so much. How much can I trust him? How much is he manipulating me? Yeah. And this was like really important information. At least I felt so because at this point, totally changed the way I saw Jason. Yeah, exactly. And you guys

[00:44:20] had been gravitating in, in, in my view toward Jason and, and Lala and like that kind of side, like Angela was really bonding with Lala and Jason D was kind of starting to ice out Kamu and Haley. She was talking smack about Haley to other people openly. I was like, this is dangerous. Uh, and Kamu hadn't talked to her for like two, like it felt like red corner might just kind of dissolve because you didn't like sort of like click that well compared to, you know, the way that you clicked

[00:44:49] with Jason and some of the other people. But once you find this out and start to actually believe it, you sort of pull back the three of you to red corner and you're like, ah, Hey guys, we love red corner, right? Yeah, absolutely. And that's drew to the rescue. I mean, he really, in terms of the crossover, I think being the deciding force on the seat, like the most influential alliance of the season. And you can correct me if that's incorrect, but like if drew hadn't done that

[00:45:19] early on, who knows what could have happened? I think drew that again, I didn't want to go to the end with drew because I knew what type of influence drew had on this season. I think drew was an incredible player on season 28. And I think this is very early him bringing us together, um, which was good for him. You know, like you said, if Angela and I had gone over to Jason and I very

[00:45:46] much wanted to work with Jason, I thought Jason was just this incredibly charismatic guy. Like he was sweet. He was obviously smart. Um, but this, this turned me against him completely. It's like, as soon as drew put that in my head, I could see Jason putting on the act all the time, you know, laying it on thick. Uh, and then it just became more and more obvious that he's not talking game with

[00:46:10] me. He, I see him talking game with other people, uh, and vice versa. I wasn't really talking game with him, but yeah, it, it had a huge impact. Angela finds us out about Jason and Lala. Uh, we started to see the Angela that we kind of knew from big brother 26, where she started going like, Hey, I saw the group in the gym. I saw them have a big meeting in the gym. Uh, that didn't

[00:46:38] happen. There was no meeting in the gym. Uh, not at all. Uh, in fact, there's a very funny scene between her and D where they're in the HOH together. And it was like, I know they're in there right now. And they're like watching people on the cameras, like walking back and forth in the hallway. They're like, Oh, did you see that person just come out? Like, Oh my God. Like, Oh, I wonder what they're saying in that meeting. Uh, and they're doing this for like 30 minutes. And then the, the live feed cameras cut to the gym and it's empty. Not a single person in there,

[00:47:08] but this is, this is largely what I think like solidifies this view of the other side as being organized is like, Angela really feels like there's this group that's come together and it might've gotten there if they had one power at some point or like it given them enough time. But yeah, this is definitely like, seems to be like the, the impetus for this idea that like this other side, they're really, they, they've got it together. They're organized there. They've got an alliance.

[00:47:37] They've got meetings. It was like, Nope. It was only ever like Jason Lala and Rome in the gym working out most of the time. That's hilarious. That's what was I, I do remember times early in the game where I was just like trying to express that this is, this is a 12 week game. Like we can't freak out every time people get together, but was I fully on board with this paranoia or was I a little more chill? I don't even remember.

[00:48:02] I, I, I, you, like you said, you were really like taking a step back, I think this week, uh, and you know, kind of letting Angela and D take the lead on whatever it was that you were on board to keep Ashley. You really kind of seemed to get swayed with like the latest, um, where initially you're like, yeah, we'll keep Taylor. Cause Taylor was campaigning. You had a good relationship with Taylor, but then they were like, ah, we need to keep Ashley. And you're like, okay. Uh, and then Ashley

[00:48:27] screwed things up by pitching. Uh, you weren't part of this conversation, but basically Drew Barrett and D were like, Hey, you, Ashley, you need to like get the women on your side. You need to go and be like, Hey, I need these votes. Um, you need to get, you know, uh, like Taylor to vote for you. And so Ashley under what she thought was instructions by D Barrett and drew who were all pitching to her together when they were supposed to be pretending to be not aligned.

[00:48:55] Uh, she names G Barrett drew Devin's Angela Kamu Haley and Chuck are all trying. They're all keeping me Taylor. Uh, so you should get on board too. Um, and you know, and so Taylor, you know, it was like, what? And he went to Lala with it. Uh, then Ashley kept pitching it. She eventually pitched it to melody and she was like, drew hasn't told you already. There's this big group that's keeping me. Melody was like, no, he hasn't told me.

[00:49:25] She goes to drew and she's like, are you lying to me? Are you with a side? Like what's happening here? Uh, and then drew of course is like melodies melodies trying to organize something. Um, and, uh, and, and your opinion at that point is like, if like, if I had a great relationship with Ashley, it might be worth pushing to save her, but like, it's like, it's not worth spending the capital to do so at this point. Yeah, that's exactly how I thought. And I was aware that,

[00:49:53] that she had named like this whole group, but I didn't know that she nailed it on the head as well as she did what turned out to be the tool she had the very next week. Um, and I had had a really great moment with Taylor where she was just totally checked out. Cause she was a have not and it was my fault. Cause I lost that first challenge and she was really down and we had just talked in the have not room and I was able to give her like the same pep talk. I ended up giving like five different people throughout the season, which is just

[00:50:21] like, it's okay to feel these feelings. Like you don't have to compare yourself to people with real problems. Like it sucks right now, but in these games, like the worst days are often followed by the best days. Like it can change like that. And it seemed to really hit home. So I had like a good bond with her. Uh, Ashley, I just thought was funny. I tried to have a couple of talks with Ashley, but she just wasn't, we weren't vibing in that same way. And then again, Yash was just not like this guy. It was all very superficial with Yash

[00:50:50] and I could tell he was closer with Rome. He was closer with these muscle guys than he was with me at the time. So yeah, I was pretty exactly what you said. I didn't want to use the first week. I was fine with it going. However it went. Yeah. Uh, Rob, any other questions from the first week? No, I think it really sets up, uh, such a, like, uh, uh, uh, such as, uh, a flip of the switch where that you have this very conservative first week,

[00:51:20] which is going to, in a matter of hours, just completely flip on its head. Yeah. A little bit. So yes, you go into the week two HOH. Um, you did say that you tried to throw it, uh, to Haley. Um, and that was true. Yeah. At the last, you know, I, again, want to win everything, but when it was going to be just Haley or I, the house was already so mad at Haley. Uh, I had, I had done as Rob said,

[00:51:49] like, I was pretty proud of myself for staying under the rain on the first week. So I'm like, if I can have Haley go in and do our dirty work, this is great. I'll bring her even closer by throwing it to her. Happy to do it. And then of course she hits her lowest shuffleboard score of the game. Um, so I become a choice and I was super, I was really pretty happy about it. Uh, but I was legit at the last second when it was just Haley and I, I was going to give it to Haley. Yes. And of course you also had this moment with melody that did not make the episode,

[00:52:18] uh, which was weird considering it was a main seemingly, uh, motivation for, for targeting her where she initially was on your team. And then when she realized it wasn't working against, it was working with, she changed to drew, which was a pretty big indication to you where she stood, uh, on top of the fact that drew had already told you guys about how she was, she was the person who like rang the alarm bell the most when it came to Ashley naming this group. Uh, and so she seems to be

[00:52:48] your target initially. Yeah, right. It was very, in my mind, she wanted me out of the game. It's like, okay, she's someone that I can go after. That's not going to cause a lot of waves. Um, this is perfect. She's given me a reason and I'll, I'll be able to do what D did, which is get someone out of the house. It's not going to upset that many people. Um, and just kind of

[00:53:11] get through my HOH with as little blood on my hands as possible. Yes. But then Angela has a different idea. Uh, she, um, I believe this is, uh, like she, she saw Rome, like look at the camera weird, which she's very paranoid about after the Jason thing. And so, uh, she's like, no, no Rome, he's got to go. And he, she pitches it to you. Uh, and, and it, you know, this really felt like

[00:53:41] she was pressing exactly the right buttons for you, which was like, this is like, this is the big move. Devins. Like this is the one freaking brother. Yeah. Big freaking brother. Uh, we had already like in our minds, as you know, Rome was the leader of the other side. Like we had built him up apparently bigger than it even was that Rome is the biggest threat in the game. That's not in the red corner. That's not in the crossover, which were still two separate things. So really

[00:54:08] all credit to Angela. It was just this wake up call of yes, you, it seems like it was easy to fall into this thing of like D one HOH. Now I want HOH. Like we can control the whole game. Like we're always going to win HOH. But when Angela said that it was like, no, this might be the only HOH I ever have. Like, and I'm going to come in here and I'm going to get out melody who at that point in the game had made no, no splash did not in our minds carry any weight with this

[00:54:38] other side of the house. So as soon as Angela said it, you can probably see like in that one conversation, I'm just like, yeah, you're right. Not only am I going to go and put Rome up on the block, but because of the blockbuster net, because of the fact that he probably won't go home. Like I'm going to blow up his whole game. Like I'm going to use this nomination ceremony to call him out and to tear everything down. Um, and I got very excited about it. And that's,

[00:55:04] I think it was all that one night that spiraled into like, let's get the tool shed together or it wasn't going to be the tool. Let's get the red corner together and the crossover together. Let's build this majority Alliance. Uh, I'm going to let them know that I'm going to blow everything up, give everyone a heads up and yeah, it really changed everything. Yeah. Big, big night. The tool shed forms a bit obvious, especially when, uh, Barrett is grabbed. Go to get Barrett. Yeah. Uh, and then you have like Rome and Lyric,

[00:55:34] like downstairs, just like, yeah. Rome actually knocked on the door. It was awful. I still feel bad about it. It was, I mean, he knew what he was doing because he knew obviously what we were doing, but I still feel bad about it. He waited outside the door forever. It was so awkward. I think I actually melted down. Like I was down on my hands and knees. I was so, I felt so awkward about it. It was really weird, but, um, yeah, it was one of those things.

[00:56:00] I was fine with being obvious about it because I'm the HOH and I'm going to make this big scene at the nominations. I'm going to have blood on my hands and everyone's going to know it. So I don't need everyone. If we got the majority Alliance, like I want all of you to be just as obvious as I am. I want them to know that it's your fault too. Um, but yeah, I do remember being able to look at those cameras and see Jason and Lyric looking up at Rome. Like they're not answering. I can't believe

[00:56:27] it. You know, we're going, Oh man, this is going to be big, but it's all going to be pretty. And I apologize to Rome the next morning for not answering. And he even said, I don't know if they showed this, but we were having a talk and he's like, you know, is this going to be bad? Like, give me a heads up. And I said something along the lines of, yeah, like it's going to be bad. You're not going to like it. Yeah. Uh, the Alliance is called the tool shed. It's a drew suggestion. He says he's been thinking about this since he was a kid. That was a lie. Uh, I'm pretty sure

[00:56:56] he's told you about that. Right. I mean, I felt at the time that he just wanted to be able to call us tools. And he, he confirmed that to me later in the season that, yeah, he basically just wanted to call us tools. Is that pretty much? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and then he, he, he quickly afterwards, uh, makes a final two with Kamu that they call the handyman. There you go. First I'm hearing of this. That's funny. Uh, the handyman. There you go.

[00:57:26] Very key Alliance for him considering, uh, there's a big push to get him on the block the next week when Kamu is HOH. Um, but, uh, but Kamu doesn't want to, it takes a lot to, to, to flip Kamu away from drew because Kamu has this final two of them. And I think at this point, like this is one of the things that he's most loyal to. He hasn't told drew about red corner, but he's never actually been that close to Haley and Chuck, uh, despite the fact that nobody believes it when he says it. Um,

[00:57:55] and so he really did feel, I think closer to you guys. Uh, but then as you know, drew gets involved in the tool shed and they're, they're joking together about how, Oh, do you hear it? Cause cause drew tells him that it's a fake name. Um, and, uh, and, and they're kind of laughing about that and they, they're the handymen and drew is really hyping them up like they're Derek and Cody, uh, on season 16. Um, and, uh, and this is really like, again, kind of like seemingly the height

[00:58:22] of true power here, uh, as at the same time, Angela is still like, don't even tell drew about the plan. Um, and, uh, you know, it's like, uh, not looking great, but also at this time, uh, for whatever reason, uh, drew is seen as somebody that was yes up in the room, but can be pulled. Uh, Rome still thinks he can get drew on, on board. Uh, he tells, uh, drew about

[00:58:49] his real name, Jack. Um, and, uh, Whoa, can't believe it. Oh my God. If only I'd known it could have been a connection with you. You love Jack. It literally could have been like, I just don't get it at all. Like that's an express, like guys, you won't, but some of the secrets people kept like, Oh my God, Melody does little game shows. If I had known we'd have gotten around week two. Like, it doesn't make any sense to me. I don't know, but yes.

[00:59:17] Um, and there's also some stuff here where Rome tells you about the four seasons Alliance, which was barely Alliance. Uh, it was literally like it came together one day. It was basically gone the next day. Um, but the fact that he outed it to you and then you told drew about it, drew tells melody about it. Like, Hey, Rome really like screwed us over. Uh, and it's at this point, like melody is like, okay, screw this through Rome, screw that side. Like

[00:59:45] I'll come aboard. Like I'm, I'm, I'm down. Like let let's, let's come, let's come aboard the, the Devon's train. Um, but, uh, but then, you know, nominations, uh, are going to happen. Um, and, uh, and like this whole like veto thing happens, but before that happens, uh, Angela gets egged, very fun. Yeah. That was so frustrating. It's like, we had a chance at an advantage,

[01:00:13] Angela. What the heck? But this still must feel like pretty good news, right? The fact that there's this twist, people are getting voted in. Yes. Angela didn't get a power that sucks, but like, you have to be thinking like, all right, my time's coming soon though. Right. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I was feeling pretty good about it. And, and one, it's like, it would have been nice to have that power on our side, but the fact that we know that no one else has

[01:00:39] a power, that was huge. And definitely I thought like, okay, hopefully enough survivor fans are watching. Uh, if Angela was the first one voted in, I feel like D and I should have a very good chance at this. Yeah. Uh, so the nominations happen big dramatic moment. Uh, you know, uh, Rome says he, he boiled down the list. I just, I boiled down the list. Um, and, uh, it's big drama.

[01:01:07] Lala is crying. Rome is sobbing to Lala later that night. Um, Yash is very much just like, like comforting Rome. Like, yeah, screw that guy. And then going to you and being like, yeah, that was a great play, man. Like this is like, Yash is like learning the game on the fly. There we go. Uh, yeah, dude, that thing I didn't, you know, I'm no, I'm coming for Rome. Like, but because he's not one of my nominees, I'm like, it's almost like a throwaway. It's like

[01:01:35] Jason melody. Um, I, I swear I studied who was even my other person. It was, uh, Lyric. I've already forgotten Jason, melody, lyric, you know, we just haven't talked much game. And I'm like, what? Like, dude, this isn't even about you. Like I'm coming for Rome. What are we doing? And then the whole thing blew up. And I tried to end that meeting like seven times. I kept going to

[01:02:03] nomination ceremonies adjourned and it just kept going. You know, my feeds came back up during it was like the only time that that happened. So we ended up being able to see a lot of, I thought that you also like that Angela's egg costume. I thought also like gave you an avenue that you really took advantage of to be able to kind of like try to break the tension. I think you give the hat back to Angela. I said an excellent hat. Yeah. I really tried to keep it like,

[01:02:29] and they Rome would say like, you know, I actually told you this. And I said, that's exactly true. That is what he said. Like, I was really trying not to go that hard in on Rome. Uh, I feel like the more honest you can be about things, the more credibility you have. Um, yeah, it was, and I was surprised how I thought I just covered in blood after the nomination ceremony. Cause I was going to go at Rome so hard, but so much other stuff happened that I snuck out of there and hid in

[01:02:54] the HOH room. And it's like, no one was really that mad at me. Rome came to me crying later that night and Taylor came to me crying. Like that's the night I realized, like, I'm not escaping this dad thing. Like I'm going to be the house dad, no matter how hard I try to be one of these kids. Yeah. You, you have, and this is really like the first time we saw it in a significant way. Like you have this, uh, way of, of making these big, very cutthroat moves. Um, and as you said, just

[01:03:21] being very sort of like straightforward and honest and upfront about it. Uh, like, yeah, something bad is going to happen. And like, you know, here's what happened. You came up, you gave me your list. And, uh, and so here's the list, everyone. Um, and now I'm going to nominate the people that you didn't want me to nominate because I'm coming after you. Sorry about that. Uh, and then he'd be like, I want to clarify exactly what happened. Yeah. It was about, it was about what you said. Like, you don't really seem to get into it with people. Um, and,

[01:03:50] and that is a relatively unique characteristic, I think with, uh, with players in these games, um, where, uh, and, and I, and I think it, it does allow you in some ways makes you more dangerous because it's like, I can feel good with this guy and he'll still just stab me right in the front. Um, but on the other hand, I think it keeps the relationship open. Like people still feel good about you as a person, which certainly helps you with, I think with the jury. Um, but also seemed to

[01:04:19] like provide an avenue to like, keep that door open to work together in the future. Yeah. And I think that I also got lucky in some regards, like if I had felt that Jason was the leader of the other side of the house and gone after him instead of Rome, like, I don't think Jason would have taken it the way Rome did. Almost like Rome and Kamu and Yash, these guys are so,

[01:04:45] they let me off the hook in some ways, like in some ways they allowed me to do that. They could have made it personal and they could have made it a bigger scene. Uh, but they took everything like, Hey, you know, we're still bros. We're still good, which let me out of there without the blood on my hands. Like, again, I barely brought up Jason and he's screaming liar, but luckily Angela gets involved.

[01:05:07] So that takes the target off me. Uh, I, I really, I love and respect so much the way that Rome handled it, that Kamu handles it later. But I do feel like in some regards, they could have made my life a little less comfortable than they did. And it might not have been a bad thing for them, but I, but I tried very hard to separate and I said it out loud. Like this is gameplay. Love you as a person. Couldn't think more highly of you as a person, but I, I got to get you out because

[01:05:36] you're this amazing dude. Yeah. You do win the veto. Uh, and this is when lyric and Rome come up with, uh, their ploy, which is that they're going to pretend to break up, uh, in an attempt to convince you to potentially use the veto. The, the breakup portion of this didn't really make a lot of sense. Um, they had a lot of fun with it. Uh, where like, I told this to drew, like,

[01:06:05] they'd be like violently making out like in the have not room and then Kamu would like walk into the room and they'd, and then she'd, she'd leave and Kamu would be like, you all right. And he'd be like, yeah, it was just tough convo. Uh, and, but also Roman era, like Rome is telling me that he's madly in love with her at the same time. Yeah. He gave it up. He told the secret. Um, but, uh, initially this does seem to have some impact on you. Lyric gives this big pitch about how she's

[01:06:34] willing to drop Rome. Uh, she wants to like work with you. Um, and after she leaves, you're like, why do I believe her? Like pretty good stuff. Uh, and it seems to convince you to use the veto on lyric instead of melody, uh, which at the time we were like, what, like, really? You're like, you're believing lyric. Oh, like melody actually wants to join your side right now. Why not throw a bone to lead to, to melody help, you know, pull in drew a little more. People are so worried about

[01:07:03] drew instead of like pissing him off by leaving melody on the block. Why not throw him a bone? Why not throw melody a bone? Um, but it becomes this big thing where D and Angela in particular really like melody needs to stay on the block to test true. Um, and, uh, and you feel like you can develop a good relationship and a good rapport with lyric by using the veto on her. So walk me through

[01:07:25] this decision. So, uh, as I recall, it was more so that a melody had during that HOH actively wanted me out. Whereas lyric was just still kind of floating. If anything, I was only frustrated with lyric because she, I'd be like, Hey, obviously there are two sides of the house. And she'd be like, what, what? I don't know. And I'd be like, if I can't talk with you at all, like this isn't going

[01:07:52] to work, but it was more. So I still assumed Rome was going to win the blockbuster. And I was like, if I can give Rome this little olive branch of, listen, I'm not going to put you up next to the girl that you're in love with. Like maybe that's enough to preserve this relationship. Because again, on a personal level, we're still playing bags. We're still having a good time. We're still joking. I've just gone after him so hard in a game time. And I even told him, I was like,

[01:08:18] listen, if you don't go home this week, I'm not coming after you next week. Like you're off the hook with me. Like it didn't work. I understand that you'll come after me. So more than anything, it was Rome management of just like when he probably comes back, at least I didn't put him up next to his girlfriend. I don't believe that melody's with me in any sense, other than I'm the HOH this week. You know, if I'm not HOH next week, I think she'll go to the other side immediately.

[01:08:45] So more than anything, it was just trying to have that little thing in case Rome comes back. You know, you really did get lucky with this blockbuster logic where you took two really big swings at two like very athletic comp beasts in both Rome and comp. And both times, they both didn't come out of the blockbuster where we assume that maybe they might.

[01:09:13] Yeah, dude. As Drew said often during the season, it's better to be lucky than good. No, listen, huge amount of luck involved in these games always. And those are two points where I was incredibly lucky. And again, like I told Jason, like, you've got to go up when you were in the blockbuster also. Well, no, that wasn't luck. That was a skill. But no, incredibly lucky that Rome

[01:09:40] went home in one try that common went home in one try because I was Rome throwing those early comps. Like it struck me that he probably was, but he wouldn't have if he'd come back. So got very lucky with that, but was definitely in my mind trying to prepare for a world where Rome came back. Like I assumed Rome would come back. Yeah. But I also didn't want to keep that from like, assuming someone's going to come back is the

[01:10:06] dumbest reason to not put them up because if you think they're a threat, like go for it basically. Exactly right. There's some other things that happened this week. Barrett and Drew make their final two. They call it the jugglers because they're juggling both sides. Oh, were they juggling actually at this point or was that later? I mean, not really. Right. That really played into things again. Like like because like people like Rome think they can pull

[01:10:34] Drew at this point and Drew is entertaining it to get information, which he brings back to you guys. But his loyalty was always with you guys. Barrett was not a fan of the tool shed, especially because he was woken up to go join it after it was already formed. And so he felt bad about that whole situation. He talks about it all the time in the diary room. But at this point, like it's him and it's Drew and you are their third. Like it's very much as Drew has mentioned to you multiple times.

[01:11:04] They have they pretty much for most of the season, see it as the three of you and then Angela and D right. Yeah. So so that's going on there. And you see this stuff, the fact that I didn't know about the handyman and didn't know about the I mean, I could assume about the jugglers. But like these are the reasons why Drew is always a little sketchy. And outside of this,

[01:11:32] he's got this relationship with Melody. So always I want to trust Drew and always I believe that Drew kind of has my best interest in mind. But it was so obvious he had so like he always did so much. He did. Yeah. And like one of the criticisms I had of Drew was that he didn't use it enough. So he had all this stuff, but then he brought it all to you guys and was there's too low. I mean, he says he says I'm like their baby.

[01:12:01] Like their baby. Yeah. And I love my baby. I do. My son. And then Barrett. So so Barrett was mad about I know he wasn't super in with the cool kid, so he wasn't that psyched. But he was a what were we supposed to do? He was asleep like he was already in the crossover. He didn't like that he was the last one brought into the crossovers either. Yes. Well, you got to be there, bro. I don't know what you want us to do. Like you're

[01:12:27] asleep. We're bringing you in. We can't have the crossover sitting there waiting as we bring in the cool kids. Like I don't understand. People need to chill out. This is this is a classic Big Brother thing, actually, that if you are the last person to be brought into an alliance, it tends to be a signal in terms of like where you are in the hierarchy of that alliance. Like if there are four people in a room being like, hey, let's let's all do this.

[01:12:53] Like, who else can we bring in? What else can we pull in for an oh, what about Barrett? Like the perception is that like there's probably three of those people that talked before the fourth person came in. And there's probably two of those people that talked before the third person came in because they want to structure their onion alliance, you know, in the right way. Right. That makes sense. And we even did that later where there were some alliance like with D in the wolf pack. It was like, oh, let's bring her in now and then act like we're bringing in Yash and all. So,

[01:13:22] yeah, that makes sense. But also just like. I don't know, chill out a little bit, guys, we're trying to you're obviously getting included. We're bringing you up in front of the entire house like we're not even trying to hide anything, but OK, there is a there's a bit of a situation. Rome tries to make a pitch to the men that you are not included in. And then you feel like, like, yeah, like a little weird that like Drew and Barrett didn't tell you about it. And like,

[01:13:50] you know, at this point, like Angela and D have really been talking to you about Drew. And it does seem like this is maybe a little bit of a turning point in the way that you are seeing Drew. Walk me through this a little bit. It was I don't remember that much. This is this before D dragged us like kindergartners up into the gym. That was that was that was the the men pitch. That was. Yeah. So, yeah. Someone had filled me in, but it wasn't Drew. And so it wasn't like,

[01:14:20] OK, well, Drew's not telling us everything. And then I know after the Rome vote, when Drew was just like crying a lot, it was like, whoa, I didn't know he was that close to Rome. So there are a lot of these little red flags going off with Drew. D dragging us up there was wild. Like I was just kind of going with the flow and I haven't even talked with D about it because it's so awkward. I did feel at the time like it was more about maybe her feeling like Jason was being left out

[01:14:47] and I was just kind of an add on. But I also know that D is a big believer in don't let people go off and meet alone, which is one of our points of tension, especially in a 12 week game. I'm like, people are going to meet alone. Like you just have to let it at some point you just have to have faith in these things. But that was one of the most awkward moments of the whole summer because he's dragging us in and then Rome being like, oh, well, I left them out because he nominated me and

[01:15:13] I'm up against him. And I'm going, yeah, makes sense. Kind of makes sense to me. But it was, it was, Rome was such a nice guy that he's like, all right, I'll just give my pitch with you guys here. Yeah, but yeah, that was so awkward, but there were tons of those red flags with Drew. And that's why as much as I loved him, like, yes, I was always suspicious of Drew until very late in the game.

[01:15:40] So really the only other thing here is that Angela Taylor and Lala and D make an alliance called the Honor Society, which is not very long lived. But, you know, it's sort of representative of the relationship that they have at this time and Lala's connection to Angela in particular.

[01:16:02] Um, anything else from week two, Rob, from you? Um, no, I think that we have, uh, you know, a lot of, uh, powers to come. So yeah, keep going. All right. Well, Kamu, of course, wins the week three HOH. Wrestlegasm. Yes, for the Wrestlegasm. Uh, and this is really like, uh-oh, in my eyes,

[01:16:27] because I'm always looking for, you know, Big Brother, weirdly, is more about competitions than Survivor is. Uh, like there, we have seen it multiple times. You can really start to run away with just winning competitions. Um, and if you get somebody who's really physically fit, who's also now winning like a quiz comp, like that's dangerous. Um, and so Kamu wins this.

[01:16:52] He is obviously thinking about targeting Jason. Uh, he has this idea. Drew actually suggests that Jason get backdoored instead. Um, and, uh, and Kamu thinks that's a good idea. Um, Jason at this point, uh, wants to pitch for you to be targeted. Um, and Mallory actually also is like, I would do Devon's personally. Uh, but of course, Kamu's not going to do that. Um, and, uh, and then you get called

[01:17:21] into the diary room, uh, because you've been voted for to receive a pal. Let's go. Yeah. I was very excited about this. And, uh, again, I would contend that AF that even if I wasn't an icon, I won the week to HOH and like you said, was much more aggressive with it than the average big brother

[01:17:47] player in my watching experience. People like Tucker who are bold and do this stuff usually get America's votes on things. So I feel like if it was a clean slate, there's a very good chance I would have been voted in to get that. Even if I wasn't an icon. Yeah, that's, it is interesting. I think we don't know what the voting totals were, but we do know that Jason was apparently third place,

[01:18:12] uh, on this vote. Um, I would assume behind you and D, uh, so, but he also comes in with a fan again. Yeah. Also, I got way more followers than I had coming into this season on Instagram and all these things. Right. So yeah, uh, hard to say. Um, and at this point I would say also like, I don't know that Mallory had the support to be like the fan favorite that she was yet. Um,

[01:18:39] so yeah, I'm very curious. I would be very curious to know, obviously it's impossible to know, but, uh, who would, I do think you would have been up there for sure. Um, but, but it's, it's, it's very difficult to detach, uh, 100%, you know, you're getting more prominence in the edit because you're coming from survivor. You also like know how to make better TV and other people

[01:19:01] because you come from survivor. Uh, so, um, so yes, but either way you sit in the chair, uh, you like, like that dude that cracked the code, uh, and press your luck, um, are going to figure out the pattern and you land on a power and it is by far like, uh, the, or maybe not by far considering

[01:19:27] what he was able to do with the bribe, but like definitely an incredibly, I think I called it at the time, perhaps one of the most powerful powers in the history of big brother. Yeah. Huge. Uh, very, again, better to be lucky than good. Like, especially when I find out later that drew wins the never not pass. It's like, Oh my God, bro, this, this worked out pretty well. And it wasn't like the press your luck thing where you're trying to stop on. It says like

[01:19:54] diamond power of veto. It's just like power, power two or whatever it was. Right. And they have like the envelopes to verify that everything is like legit. Like they show us that and everything afterwards. And again, Angela said it was totally by chance that you hit it. And I'm like, no, there's clearly a pattern here if you sit and wait long enough. Um, so I do feel like I, I, I got that power by doing by, you know, finding the pattern, but it could have been anything.

[01:20:21] I had, it easily could have been a never not pass. That was pure luck that I ended up getting this super bad-ass power. Um, yeah, that was great. The, the big thing here is that it's good for six weeks, which is, which is an absurd amount of time and big brother house to have something so powerful, especially when you're already in the majority. Uh, you know, a lot of the time powers

[01:20:46] like this are able to be used offensively rather than defensively, uh, where you don't even have to use it because you can basically just threaten to use it in an, in the nicest way possible. Uh, and then sort of have an amount of influence over any HOH that you didn't already have influence over, uh, obviously didn't quite work out that way for you. But like, uh, when you get this power, it's for me, I'm like, okay, vets are locked in for the next six weeks. Like

[01:21:15] there's just no way that any of you leave in the next six weeks. Like you are making it to jury. Yeah. I felt really good about it. I felt really good about having that power for sure. Especially since I felt like our Alliance had most of the great competitors in the house at this point. Um, or at least enough of them. It's like, yeah, yeah. I felt the same way, Taryn that this is something we can really use to get to propel ourselves forward.

[01:21:43] Yes. So you decide to tell D about it, but not Angela, uh, which was again, one of those choices of like, who do I tell what, uh, this ends up working out fine because Angela pretty quickly is like, I think Devins has it, but he's not going to tell us, but that's good. Like he's not telling us to protect us, D. Um, and so like it totally worked out, but at the time we were like, Oh, like if Angela finds out that Devins has been lying, like this could be a problem,

[01:22:10] but it wasn't at all. Like Angela was always just like firmly locked in at the very least with D. Um, but, but certainly with both of you for a very long time. Yeah. Angela was real easy to work with for almost the entire game. I mean, we'll get to stuff that I wasn't aware of, I guess, but, uh, no, I, I really enjoyed working with Angela, but she is a wild card. I did not bring her in or trust her as much as I trusted D like period. Uh, I'd seen D operate

[01:22:39] watching 45. I'd seen Angela operate, you know, watching 26 and I had different trust levels for each of them. Uh, but both of them were really solid allies for me. Well, Angela, yeah, Angela does go a little bit rogue this week because her and D have been trying to convince Kamu to go after Drew, uh, or at least like not be good with Drew. But again, Kamu has this final two with Drew. So it's, it's taking a lot more effort than they, I think would have anticipated. And Angela wants to

[01:23:08] have just like, you know what, let's just tell them about crossovers. Um, which you are like, no, that's a bad idea, which initially stops her from doing it. But then she's like, I got, I got to do something. And she goes up to Kamu. She has this whole scene, um, where, uh, she tells Kamu like Drew's after you. He said he wants to go after red corner. And Kamu's like, what do you mean red

[01:23:34] corner? How does Drew know about red corner? And she's like, I don't know. He's like, he told you red corner. She's like, yeah. He's like, how does he like, it took, it took her like two minutes to realize, Oh wait, Drew's not supposed to know about red. I don't know. Maybe I got it wrong. I was talking with D about it. Uh, and then later she's apologized. She's like, I'm the real messy bitch D

[01:23:59] dude. I don't know what Angela's thing with drew was from the beginning, but that was a lot to manage all the time. And then Angela, like she wasn't even in red corner to begin with. Right? Like she had forced herself into it even, even before that when, when it wasn't really necessary. Um, but that's okay. That's all right. She wasn't, she wasn't screaming at me. So I, it was,

[01:24:25] it's all good. It is around this time that you seem to fully turn the corner on drew as well. Uh, you tell D that, that, you know, she's right. Drew needs to go. Uh, red corner is just a lot more easily manipulated, uh, which definitely seemed to be true at the time. Um, and, um, and then of course, over the course of the week as well, as drew is starting to pitch different things, like what if we

[01:24:51] got, uh, you know, Jason to use the veto or like, uh, like, like what if we kept Mallory this week? Um, and you're like, like, no, like, this is, I don't like this. Uh, and it seems like this is definitely like a big turning point in the relationship with drew. Yeah. He just, you know, if he, if he's with us, why is he working so hard to protect these people on the other side of the house, which he's spending a lot of his time with and everything. So it just seemed like he was trying

[01:25:20] to have his cake and eat it too. Um, which I get, but at the same time, I'm just like, if you're with us, I need you to be with us. And that was kind of the whole thing with drew all along. Plus, of course, I've got Angela and D in my ear going all along and they're my number one Alliance. I think even Barrett was, you know, kind of reinforcing this idea that drew's doing too much. Um, and that he agreed meanwhile, I'm getting closer with Kamu. Like he's someone I really, really like in the game. Chuck

[01:25:49] and I have kind of a weird, very superficial relationship, but I like him. It's Chuck done. And then Haley, I have no idea what that sound bite is by the way. And then Haley, everyone hates, uh, but I thought she was just fine. So she's like a perfect ally to have in the game. Yeah. Uh, and it, it did make sense to some degree. Uh, and really at this point too, like

[01:26:15] we were all convinced that drew would turn on you, but not because he was planning to, because he would find out about all the trash that's been talked by Angela and D and, uh, and that like, this was going to be like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Uh, of course that never really happened, but, uh, we thought it would. Yeah. Um, and we're convinced more and more that he and Barrett are throwing comps, whereas the cool kids are actively trying to win. So it's like, let's have people that are gonna,

[01:26:44] that are helping our calls and not letting us carry all the weight here. So, uh, Taylor pitches to Kamu initially that they, that they form an alliance with you, uh, and Mallory and Drew initially were part of it because she wants to do this tethers thing. Uh, this is the primaries. Um, and, uh, and you really kind of like talk her out of drew, um, and, and Mallory and like kind of whittle it down to like, what if it's just the three of us?

[01:27:13] What if it's just like a three person thing? And she's kind of like, well, that's like literally defeats the entire purpose of my pitch, but I sure. Yeah. This just came in way late. I mean, we're, we're like late in week three, you know, I've already got a majority alliance in the house and a majority alliance, two majority alliances within that majority alliance. And now I'm supposed to be doing this other thing. And it was just very pie in the sky to me that like,

[01:27:39] we'll each have this person and they'll have their tethers, but like Melody will be more or Mallory will be more loyal to us than they will be to this other person. That's clearly the person they're closest with in the house that, you know, Barrett or Drew will be more loyal to the primaries than they would be to their tether. And it's like, I don't believe that even her, it's like, I don't think you're going to be more loyal to me than Lala or Jason. Like it doesn't, it, it just seemed like a great idea on paper that in my experience would never actually work

[01:28:08] in a strategic social game like this. Well, it does become pretty important to your game in the coming weeks, of course, eventually when Lala wins. But, but you really kind of like, for as much as Dee and Angela have been trying to flip red corner against Drew, and it's worked with Haley and it's worked with Chuck, but, but Kamu's kind of been the holdout because he has this final two with Drew, but he's really been, he's been hearing a lot. He goes to

[01:28:38] you, he's like, I've been hearing a lot about Drew, like what's going on? And you are really the, the person who's able to, to just twist the knife and finish the job with Kamu. And you talk to him about like, listen, it's not that we can't trust Drew, but we can't trust his position, right? Like look at where he is. Um, and, uh, and this fully moves Kamu off of Drew. He makes the final two with you. Um, and, uh, and this is sort of like the new direction moving forward for Kamu's game.

[01:29:08] Um, obviously the Dapper Dans had formed before, which was Yash, Yu, Barrett, uh, and Drew. Um, but this new direction, um, is going to, that Kamu is in is going to end up creating the Wolfpack, uh, as well, which is, uh, going to be, uh, Yu, Kamu, and Yash, uh, and eventually Dee. Um, and, and they have a very funny conversation too. When they get together, they're like,

[01:29:33] uh, like, Oh, we don't know how Devin's feels about Dee. Like, uh, I don't know if they get along that well. So what if we ask Devin's how he feels about Dee before we tell him why we're asking him about it to just to see so that he doesn't know to like, I was doing a pretty good job. I was doing a pretty good job with managing all these different relationships. Yeah. Um, so, uh, the big, the big thing here is that melody and Mallory try to start pitching for,

[01:30:02] uh, initially for just Mallory to stay, but then also they realize, wait, we might be able to get the votes for Jason. The problem is that Drew is not on board to save Jason. He is on board to save Mallory. Um, and so this gets a little confusing. Drew rats it out to you. This is what ruins Drew's relationship with Yash because he realizes that you found out and he thinks that Drew is the one that ratted it out. It was also Barrett, but, uh, he's mad about that. You have a very funny moment

[01:30:28] where you go to, uh, it's more of a Taylor funny moment. You go to Taylor to, because you're like a little bit worried. Like if Drew and Barrett decide to keep Mallory, uh, or Jason, like there's not much you can do about it. Um, so you try to use this new thing with Taylor to be like, Hey Taylor, you're keeping Lala no matter what. Right. Um, and Taylor to that point was like actually willing to vote Lala out, uh, according to what she was telling melody and Mallory. Um, and so you have that conversation with Taylor, but like, like you're with us, like you're going to vote with us,

[01:30:57] right. You're going to keep Lala. And she's like, yeah, yeah, of course. After you leave, she's on the hammock. She goes, she's like, damn it. Like now, now I'm going to piss Devin's off. If I vote Lala, I like, what am I, what do I do? What do I do? That's hilarious. No, I had no idea. Um, and, uh, and so this whole process of course really continues to just turn against

[01:31:25] Drew as he's pushing for Mallory. Kamu's against him. Now the votes come through, you end up using this sort of like reverse psychology on Drew and Barrett, uh, where you're like, listen, if you guys really want to, we can keep Mallory. Okay. If you really, if you really care about it that much, we'll do it for you, for you guys. And they're like, no, we, we wouldn't want to do that.

[01:31:50] Like, well, it's, we can, we'll vote them out. Yeah. That was that our late night talk in the backyard. That was, yes, that was part of it too. Where drew is drew was joking around about like throwing out like, uh, like, like, like I think it was like, he's talking about like red corner. And then you really just like lose it on. Dude, he was just playing so

[01:32:11] loose with everything. It's like, dude, you're becoming a, yeah, a liability is what, is what it was. So that was, and again, like I'm trying to fall back in the shadows, like up to this point, like I didn't want to have my finger on the button or my finger on the trigger. Like I wanted to let it just kind of work itself out, but I kept feeling like I got put in these positions where like with

[01:32:38] Kamu it's like D and Angela were pressing it, but like someone had to come in and I had a better relationship with Kamu to kind of like make it happen. Uh, and the same thing with Barrett and Drew, it's like, we're all pushing this thing, but I felt like I was in the best position. So I kept getting forced into having to play the game. And of course it I'd like resist, resist, and then be bored and be like, all right, let's do it. Let's go have this late night conversation. Um,

[01:33:03] but I did feel like, I do feel like almost trying to stay out of it was really helping me. So the point when I would come in, it's like, I wasn't as active as some of the others. So when I came in, maybe they were listening more, but, um, this was a big turning point. I felt like with Drew and Barrett where it's like, oh, they're listening to me. This is good. Uh, and I felt like after that conversation, it's like, you know what? I've got, I've got pretty good influence on this group,

[01:33:29] probably more than I thought I did in hindsight. Uh, but it was a good moment with those guys. Yes. Well, uh, of course things go, uh, along fine. Jason leaves and then Haley wins the next HOH. And this is like, everyone's been waiting for Haley to win HOH this whole game. They're just like, like Haley's the perfect person to take a bunch of heat. Um, but by now this is the thing you guys have like built up. Drew is such a threat in, in, in your minds that like,

[01:33:59] all of a sudden you're going to use the Haley HOH on drew. Uh, and it was like, what are we doing? Yeah. At this point it was just the biggest headache in the game was what's drew going to do? What's drew going to do? Like that was taking up all of our thought process. Like Angela really wants drew out. D's kind of wants drew out and it's constantly who's drew with who's drew with where it was

[01:34:27] the initial thought of like using Haley's HOH to get out true. Wasn't necessarily that we thought or that I thought drew was against me, but it was just like, I can't deal with this all summer. Like I can't deal with this looming threat of drew, this uncertainty around drew all summer. We've got like, I, I want to just nip it in the bud and not have to worry about it anymore. Um, that was stupid, which is why I come around to like, why are we doing this? Like we're doing this just because

[01:34:55] it's inconvenient to have drew, but like, we can actually get rid of someone who, who is at might be after us as opposed to someone who's just kind of all over the place. And that's, I think where the switch comes back, but yeah, initially me going with like, okay, fine, let's get drew out. It's like, let's placate the icons. And I agreed. Like he's just doing too much. He's driving me absolutely crazy. I never know where this guy is. Um, cause I remember having a conversation up in the room

[01:35:24] with the crossovers and immediately he's down whispering to Mallory and melody. And it's just like, he's telling them everything. He's like, clearly he won't even let Yash here. And maybe he wasn't, but that was the thought process. That's what's so funny about it. It's like, he wasn't helping us help him, uh, in terms of that sort of thing. Well, and this week has, I think the example that a lot of people were using of like, you know what, maybe we can't blame them because we just fell for the same thing, which is that,

[01:35:51] uh, D ends up getting the bride power and she had set up like a code word with you. Like she was going to let you know if she got one and then she doesn't say anything. Um, and she doesn't even say anything to the cameras. And so we're like, well, who, if it's not D, who is it? Uh, and a lot of people thought it must be drew because he was, he was high up in the polls at this point. Cause people were like, he's being unfairly suspected for like,

[01:36:18] you know, things that he's not actually doing, uh, like he needs help. Um, and so a lot of people thought drew might've gotten this power, uh, and it wasn't a punishment. So it must be a power. And what are the powers? Like, what about the coin? The coin is the one that everyone like the coin of destiny are waiting for. Um, the, yeah, I guess, I guess you never really, uh,

[01:36:41] heard much about the coin cause it never actually came about. Right. Exactly. The coin is, uh, before the nominations, you can flip a coin, call aside. If you, if it lands on the side, you call you overturn the HOH. It's basically a coup d'etat that you have to flip a coin for a very Mr. Beast esque. Uh, yeah, I was going to say if they were rigging these things, that's what I'd have gotten. There's no doubt about it. Like that's proof. Right. And so

[01:37:07] drew comes out of the diary room. People are suspecting he might have gotten something. He's all of a sudden seemingly talking about coin flips. Um, and he's talking to, he's talking to you guys about like, he's got a plan for next week. Uh, if he wins HOH, it's really funny. It's going to look like he's doing one thing, but then it's going to turn out to be something else. Um, and, and it's like, is he talking about like using the coin on his own HOH to anonymously make nominated? Like what is

[01:37:36] happening? Did he not use the, he's about to go on the block and he's not using this coin. And so for days people were like, drew has it. And everyone was up in arms. And then eventually we see in the episode D has it and people were like, you know what? Yeah. Drew can feel pretty sketchy sometimes. It can be really easy to suspect him of things. Good. I'm glad people got a little

[01:38:01] taste of what we're doing here. Yeah. I love the guy. I never didn't love the guy. He just drove me crazy, but, and it's not even, I mean, he legitimately did have an opportunity most of the game to switch sides. It's like he never burned. And just the threat of that was so great that it was scary. Exactly. Yeah. And I think that he never, I think this is another thing that maybe I should

[01:38:28] have told him because it didn't occur to me until this moment, but like, I don't think he ever realized how dangerous the position he was in was to you guys. Uh, and so because he was so actually loyal to you, he never thought about what it might look like or the danger that he presented to you guys. Um, cause he didn't see it that way. He saw himself as an asset to you because he was, um, but couldn't see that he could have also been a huge danger, uh, and therefore wasn't

[01:38:58] worried enough about making you feel comfortable with the position he was in. Yeah. I think that that's fair. Uh, so, um, Taylor wins this veto and, uh, there's a whole thing with lyric this week where she has been trying to work Kamu and Chuck and Yash and Kamu has been pushing way too hard and it's pissing off Haley. Uh, and for many of these reasons and more lyric is the replacement nominee.

[01:39:25] Uh, and, um, it is around this time also that FAP FAP, uh, officially forms, um, despite the fact that Barrett has been informed that drew was the target and is like, okay. Yeah. So, you know, was very shaky ground for this Alliance from the very beginning. Um, but, uh, but it's around this

[01:39:50] time also that like the, the, the target shifts, right? So, um, Yash has made a final two with, with lyric at the beginning of this week. Now that Rome is gone, uh, and Jason is gone and he's actually super loyal to this. He's been working really hard to try to keep lyric around this week. Uh, he also, he pitches so to you and D he's like, Hey, you know, like I, a wolf pack, right? I've got lyric, like I've got her. We should like drew and melody need to be split up. Um, and it seems to me like

[01:40:19] this is one of the bigger factors in D approaching you a little bit later saying, should everyone's trying to protect lyric? Like, should we like, why are we getting rid of drew? Uh, and it's this conversation in the hot tub room. It was very controversial because you asked D like, okay,

[01:40:40] I'm open to this, but what is this coming from you or is it coming from like the DR? Uh, and then like the feeds are cutting and people, Oh, the DR convinced D to save drew was the thought. Uh, I was just confused that she had switched so quickly, um, that it was such an interesting

[01:41:06] switch to me. And I do not think, I think that she just realized that like you're having these conversations in the DR and they just want your thought process behind things. And I think that's what it was is as she was thinking it out, she's going like as big a pain as drew has been, like, would he come for me? Um, I don't know. We didn't really get there that much, but the thing with

[01:41:33] lyric was that she had put the target on herself just because she would throw anyone under the bus in a heartbeat. She's like, I don't want to be part of sinking ship. These people, you know, Rome went out on a limb for me. I'll get rid of Rome. Like Melody and Mallory went out of limb for me. I'll get rid of them. And it's like, well, why would I want to work with you lyric? Lyric? Like you want to work with me until I'm in the least bit inconvenient. And then you'll throw

[01:41:56] me under the bus. So I think there was a realization of just like, not only are other people pushing hard for lyric and we became very skeptical of the cool kids, like comment, like that's just giving them, we know at some point the cool kids and the icons are going to battle each other. Um, we, we, we feel like this is coming. So why are we going to give them a number when we feel like drew

[01:42:22] is more, our number drew would be with us versus them. Whereas lyric would be them against us. So that's kind of, I think where that, that ended up going. Yes. Uh, it, it, it seemed like it took a lot more convincing to get you on board with this, but once you pitched it to red corner and very successfully got Haley to think it was her own idea. It like got really exciting. He was like, Oh my God, this is great.

[01:42:50] Yeah. It was, I was really, I was so over the drew thing. Like I just did not want every conversation I had with Angela to be about how sketchy drew is and how does this. And it was just like, it was taking up so much of my emotional and mental capacity that I really wanted. I was like, we already decided on drew. Like I've already in my mind, like pulled the trigger on this guy, even though I like him, like now I'm going to have to keep dealing with this, but yeah,

[01:43:19] what dude, we were just having too much fun convincing. Hey, like, like, like we were really feeling ourselves at this moment, buying into ourselves that we could do anything we wanted in this game. And, uh, yeah. So I think you read that correctly. Yes. Uh, I think so much of your mental capacity was focused on drew that you, uh, at around this time, especially really just cannot get Larkin's name. Correct.

[01:43:49] No Larkin and Lulu. And I was calling the tool shed, the tree house. Like I had lost my, I was actually a little nervous for myself. Like my wife works with dementia patients and I'm going, what is going on? Wow. I still don't know, man. I still don't know what was wrong with me. Cause I got it. I got things right after this, but there was a one or two week period there where I was freaking losing it, man. Uh, it was wild. It was very like, I don't think I've seen somebody like,

[01:44:17] cause obvious people get names wrong, but like it was, it was very consistently wrong too. It was like, it was really weird. Like what? Like Larkin? I know. I knew a Larkin in high school. That's 20 some years ago. That's more than 20 years ago. So I don't know where this stuff came from, but it was like, I was, I was concerned. Something's not right here. Um, okay. So the,

[01:44:41] the big thing here, uh, at the end of this week, uh, is that you have this conversation with D you're already planning to save drew, but she comes up with the idea. Like, what, why don't we save melody too? Uh, and just, let's just, just make sure we get rid of lyric. Um, and it's like, okay, yeah, let's do it. We'll burn red corner. Uh, D and Angela agree. They're going to lie about their votes. Um, this will, this becomes a blind side and it was a very fun blind side, but we were like,

[01:45:11] this is a terrible idea. There's no reason to blind side red corner. As you have been saying all week long, they are so easily manipulated. You got them into thinking saving drew was their idea in the first place. It would be so easy to just convince them that this is what they should do. And they would do it. Like why, why blind side them was the thought, even though it was very fun. Yeah. I, I'm trying to remember. Cause I feel like the only reason we agreed to save melody was

[01:45:41] because that would allow us to save drew. Like we needed to make that deal with Mallory, um, to get her on board, to save drew instead of lyric. And then we brought in Taylor after that. So we probably didn't in the end needs to make that deal. And like you said, like we probably could have done this with the red corner, but I really do feel like this was maybe the height of us just being like,

[01:46:06] we can do things at the last second. Like we can, I like, we're just a little bored and we got a little hubris going on. And even them lying about their vote. I was like, that made sense when it was going to be 50, 50, when there was going to be a lot of votes, uh, that went the other way, but, and I was going to lie about my vote. But as soon as it was only three votes going the other way, it's like, to me, that's pretty obvious that those three aren't going against each other. So I immediately

[01:46:33] came clean. The fact that D and Angela could still wanted to lie about their votes blew my mind. I thought that's why are we doing this? Um, but yeah, I would say that that was basically boredom at work and us just feeling ourselves and wanting to have fun with it all. This is really like one of the two or three most important moments of the season. Just, just like the little shift of, okay, well let's go after, uh, let's go after Lyric instead of

[01:46:58] Melody here, rather than let Melody go home at this, uh, vote because then it really works out where it could have been this steamroll that Taryn was talking about earlier, where that the tool shed just dominates the entire season where now just because of this one vote, I think it ends up where then the next three people out, it's Chuck Haley Kamu, is that the right word? Or Chuck Kamu Haley, uh, where the red corner all ends up going out.

[01:47:27] Yeah. And I think that in our minds, the tool shed in the icons minds, the tool shed was never going to dominate the season. We always suspect, and maybe this was incorrect that those three at some point would come after us. It was just a matter of who was going to take the first shot. Um, and I think we were very concerned because they were such good competitors that they could win

[01:47:52] and they could take the shot at us before we take a shot at them. So I think we kind of preemptively took that shot. Like we didn't necessarily need to take it right then, but I felt like we were very worried that they would take the shot first and that we'd be in a lot of trouble because of it. And that was always in our thought process. Like crossover was something that we could count on, even though they didn't trust Drew. Uh, but, uh, red corner was something that we never felt.

[01:48:20] Those three were just such good competitors in the comps themselves that even though we're able to manipulate them for a couple of votes, we did feel at some point they're going to come for us. Well, I think, I think part of it seemed to me like, uh, like you saw Drew as perhaps more dangerous than he actually was. Uh, and you saw red corners like very easily manipulated, but then when red corner had drew, you know, against the wall dead to rights as like now everyone's against

[01:48:47] drew and red corner seems to be powerful. Well now, now we're more withdrew against red corner. And so you kind of flip, but you were the person ballot. You were the people balancing those scales. And you, you mentioned this yourself too. Like we were the ones that convinced Haley to do this. And now we're like, we can't let Haley do this. Um, and so, uh, I honestly, I think the reality is you had both, like they were both loyal to you guys. You had both like completely under your thumb.

[01:49:15] Uh, at the end of the day, red corner was more dangerous in competition. So it was better to take the shot at them first. Uh, but other people were already willing to do that. And I would say the blind side was less so a shot at them and more so like a warning shot to let them know that you were coming. Uh, whereas you probably could have kept that under wraps. And I agree with Rob. I think this is probably like in terms of the, the difficulty that you face in the season. I think that like,

[01:49:42] this is one of like maybe two major decisions that like caused you a lot of headache moving forward. And this is probably, you know, we had a lot of advantages from experience from survivor coming into the game that played well into our hands that we were able to do things because we had that experience. This is probably one of the scar tissues from survivor where it's like, everyone knows if they're on the bottom of an Alliance, like it's going to, you can't really trust an Alliance

[01:50:07] long-term to run a survivor game. Um, and so, and you want to blindside people, you know, and do that thing. So I think this is probably something that we brought from survivor that, as you say, ended up hurting us more than helping us. Yes. Uh, in the wake of this, as you said, you go to Taylor and she grabs a lot, like she gets Lala, uh, to vote this way. And Taylor and Lala, we're not supposed to be all on the same page, uh, with this vote because you

[01:50:35] were, uh, you know, again, D and Angela, and even you were planning to lie about your votes. Uh, you decide to back off, not lie about your vote while D and Angela continue to lie about their votes. This is also why, uh, as you know, Taylor is later going to claim that she flipped this vote because in her mind, like you and her talked about it and then she got Lala and then like the votes kind of fell from there. And D and Angela were happy to let her take the blame for that because they

[01:50:58] were trying to lie about their vote. Um, and so, uh, but you being honest about this, I think hugely helps you, especially with Yash who is very much like looking for the liars, uh, and, uh, and ends up like weirdly being against Chuck, uh, after all of this, um, thinking that Chuck was trying to get him to not trust Kamu and really like all of that, they were the voters. Uh, but, um, but then Lala wins

[01:51:26] the wall and this is, this should have been very bad for you because Lala has been after you from the second you walked into the house, you targeted her Rome. Uh, and she very much the second she wins, it you are her target straight up. Like she says, I want Devon's gone, but you ask Taylor like, Hey, put in a good word for me. And that's what Taylor does. She, she basically talks Lala down,

[01:51:53] uh, number one, because she says to Lala, he asked me to put in a good word for him. So this is me doing that number two, he's definitely got a power. And if we nominate him in my backfire, Jason said, you might need to wait until like the powers expire or the blockbusters over in order to take that shot. They don't end up taking the shot. And this is perhaps their biggest mistake in the game. Not that it necessarily, cause it would have backfired. You had the diamond power of veto.

[01:52:21] Um, but it would have backfired earlier. And then the following week when Yash wins, they would have had some space to, uh, to actually do something. And so this is a huge win for you. Yeah, it is. And I think it, you know, it, it speaks in part to the relationship that Taylor and I had built, even though the primaries wasn't a real thing. Like I never put her up. I always was

[01:52:46] looking after her. Uh, and then she came and looked after me and this is the first I've heard about her, you know, being wary of the power. And I think good job out of Taylor because the second Lala came and told me that she was going to put me up, I would have said, Taylor's going up. Like I'm putting up your closest ally. Absolutely. Taylor saved her own butt because that's exactly

[01:53:10] what I would have done. Uh, if, if Lala had come after me. Yes. Um, Kamu also initially is going to go up on the block, but he is able to bond with Yash over both being left out of the vote. Um, and he says straight up, like, I don't know why they did this because I would have been down to vote with them. They were my alliance. And now I know that I can't trust them. I'm a free agent. Uh,

[01:53:36] and he pitches this to Taylor and to Lala and it starts this whole ball rolling, uh, that could have been very dangerous if not perhaps for the diamond power of veto and, you know, playing this week the way that they did, um, where Kamu links up with Yash. He eventually is going to make a final two with him. He gets in tight with Lala and Taylor. He gets himself off the block unbeknownst to anybody else. Everyone's expecting him to go up at the nomination ceremony. Uh, and he actually pitches

[01:54:04] to Lala that she backdoor you or D. Um, but she's not willing to do that at this point. She's in alliance with D and she's worried about targeting you. Um, so, uh, big, big moves happening here. Uh, and this is, again, this is probably like the portion of the game where you are the least in control of like the outcome because you're not in power. Yeah. Right. No, I like, that's interesting.

[01:54:30] I didn't know that he would pitch to get me because I think next week when we get the Bermuda triangle where he and Yash, I believed that they were really in on that, that we, it shifts. So basically, um, uh, D is able to pull Kamu back in first. Uh, she tells him about her power after she tells you about it. Um, and, uh, and she is like, he's like, why did you leave me out of the

[01:54:58] vote? And she blames Haley for everything. It's like, oh, we always liked you. It's just Haley. You didn't, you were so close to Haley. He's like, I wasn't close to Haley. I was trying to tell you like, oh, now I know. Oh my God, my heart is racing. I feel so bad. Um, and, uh, and so this really works on Kamu, he gets back on board. Um, and, uh, and so, um, you know, you guys start to, the,

[01:55:25] the wolf pack comes back together. Uh, Kamu's like now trying to pull you and D back into the fold with Lala is newfound Lala Yash Taylor thing. Um, but Taylor is very suspicious of D and D is very suspicious of Taylor. And so, uh, Kamu is trying to like pull the two of them to, he's like, I'm trying to protect them from each other. Um, and, um, and so like, this is a huge part of like getting

[01:55:49] you back in the fold, but Lala and Taylor and Yash don't like that Kamu is now trying to pull D back in. Um, and so they're like, we can take Devon's back in, uh, Yash in particular. And this is because comes to the Bermuda triangle. Um, but like they're suspicious of D. Uh, and so of course this leads into the following week and it sort of places you exactly where you ended up there.

[01:56:17] Um, but yeah, it was a very like complicated setup of like pulling Kamu back in and then I'm moving, I'm fast and fast forwarding a little bit, but like then D and Angela decide they want to do another blind side and keep Haley, uh, which sets him off again at the end of that week. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. That that's all interesting. No one was more surprised to not be targeted by Lala

[01:56:45] than me. Uh, and at that point when those people went up, it was like, okay, this is great. Uh, and I wanted to kind of stay out of it a little bit again. I just, if my finger's not on the trigger, I just want to kind of fade back into the shadows because I do play such a big game when I have the opportunities. I don't know that that week was a blur. Um, but I did, I definitely felt like,

[01:57:10] I just thought it was crazy at the time that those two D and Angela were lot had lied about the lyric vote. I just, I just felt like that was, that was a miscalculation on their part. And I felt like I had a good opportunity to, um, to, to, to change my perception of myself versus theirs by being open about that. And like you said, I do feel like it helped me with, uh, Yash and then later on

[01:57:35] Kamu. And it went on for so long that they, yeah, that they sucked that story. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so the, the anti-icon sentiment starts to grow with, uh, with Taylor, Taylor, Lala and Yash, because again, they're like, they're like Kamu's being pulled back in by them and they don't like this. Um, and so they, I called this the summit where Lala gets Drew and Melody and Mallory and Barrett all

[01:58:04] up in the HOH room with Yash and Taylor takes a shower. She was in the shower. He was in the shower because she knew, she knew that Drew and Barrett would wrap this out. Um, and so, uh, Lala does lead this meeting. Like we're going to go after the icons. Uh, basically everything that like Drew and Barrett told you, uh, was true. Although Barrett tried to then like use it against Drew later. Like Drew does say like your name as the scariest person, but only he, I mean, he was telling the truth

[01:58:32] when she, she was like, well, what about, what about Devin's? What do you think about Devin's? He's like, I don't know. He was like the scariest one, I guess. Um, and so they like have a conversation the next morning, like, should we tell them like, yes, probably we should. And so they tell you about it. Um, and, uh, and this is also like starts this whole thing where you are still kind of like, we need to, we need to take like this, this FAP group is a problem. You, you even, uh, you're like,

[01:59:01] I'm going to just straight up ask them what the name is. Uh, and, and Barrett just, he just cracks and he tells you, uh, and you're like, see, this is, they have a name. Like we need, like, we need to worry about these, these, these four. Um, and so, uh, and, and to, to your credit, like you are right about Mallory and Melody. Uh, but Barrett and Drew were still very much like

[01:59:24] with you guys at this point. Uh, and it was, it really was like Yash, uh, less so common, but like Yash and Taylor and, and, and Lala were like the bigger threats at this point in the game in terms of like coming after you. Uh, and so again, a lot going on here, but like, what is at this point you've heard about the, the, the meeting? Um, how are you feeling about your position in the game? At this point in the game, I'm feeling closer and closer with Yash. Like I

[01:59:54] had always had Yash's back and I actually gave him and Taylor credit for Lala keeping me off the block. Like I felt like they had both, I don't know if that's true, but that was the impression I got that they'd kind of tag teamed working Lala to keep me safe. Um, and good. If that's not the case, good for Yash for convincing me that it was. Yeah. I would not say it was as much the case as, as Taylor, uh, nearly. And Yash also didn't have that kind of pull with Lala at that point.

[02:00:20] Okay. Um, but I, but I was feeling closer and closer with him. I didn't want him to go anywhere. Kamu and I had made it through this rough patch of the lyric vote. And I felt like better with Kamu than I, than I felt like D and Angela necessarily were with Kamu. I still felt really solid with the icons, really solid with Barrett and Drew, but the big concern was starting to become like, okay, I'm good with Kamu, but Kamu is good with everybody. Like he's very good social player.

[02:00:48] Everyone loves him. I feel really close with Drew and Barrett. Like I'm starting to, I think we've talked at this point about having a final three within the crossover and everything, but it was so obvious that at any time they wanted snap of their fingers, they could jump over with FAP and this group. And that would be detrimental to my game and to the icons game. And I really felt all it would take was a Mallory or a Melody winning HOH. And then it's like, okay,

[02:01:16] why wouldn't they jump over at that point? Um, so it was really just knowing that these other people had so many options and that, that was my big concern was I need to start limiting these options. And also knowing that as close as like Melody and Drew were now, or Mallory and Barrett were now, and that they're going to be ticked off. If we take out one of their people, that's only going to get worse. Like the further along we go, the closer they're going to get. So if we're going to cut off

[02:01:44] that option for them to, to go to the other side, like rather sooner than later was kind of the way I was seeing everything. Yeah. And at this point it's, it, Kamu is focused on FAP. Like he's going after them. Uh, Yash is a little more concerned again, because Kamu seems to be a bit too close to the icons. He's still a little bit more concerned about the icons. Uh, and so when Yash wins this

[02:02:12] next HOH, he's, he's firmly looking at targeting you guys. And, and this was another one of those things where I was like, you've been told Yash is coming after you. You've been told how to play the knockout competition. What in the world are you and D doing, picking each other in this competition and essentially throwing it to Yash and then celebrating that, uh, he won. He's coming for

[02:02:38] you guys. He's not coming for me. Like Yash and I were tight. We were good. Um, I didn't necessarily think he was coming for D cause we had the wolf pack, you know, uh, he had me convinced with that D and I going into this new that, you know, it was going to be this knockout type competition. And we had discussed, it's going to be hard. We were so connected to everyone in the house. Again,

[02:03:05] if we put Yash up, we're blowing the wolf pack. This is what tore Taylor and I apart. When she put me up immediately against Drew, I'm going, Oh, Taylor doesn't want to work with me. Like Taylor does not have this and Taylor and I had this discussion. I still don't know if there was intention there because she has claimed, you know, to the end that like, Oh, I would just wasn't thinking about it. And it's like, what? Um, so this was a chance for D

[02:03:29] and I to look like we weren't as close as we were, which again is kind of beyond reasonable at this point, but it's worked up to this point. So, you know, who knows? I was surprised at how well it did work. I felt very good about Yash. I did think that, uh, he believed in Kamu D and I, and that he

[02:03:49] was more concerned about drew, uh, and FAP than he was about us. Um, so yeah, that's where I was. At that point, Taylor had been taught like Taylor and Lala. I think by that point had been like, maybe we should have gone after Devon's like, he really needs to be targeted. Um, and, and Yash was like kind of like, he was like, Yash wants the icons to be targeted, but because he has the best

[02:04:17] connection with you, he'd prefer it to be initially Angela actually, uh, because yeah, he would talk a lot about her and he didn't like the drama that she brought to everything. Yash is a great player. Like he he's, he's a good player. Yeah. So initially his ideas is Haley, Angela D with, with Angela as the target. Um, but, uh, but Kamu works hard to convince him D should be the target

[02:04:44] instead. And, and, and this is because again, there's this last minute, like, well, what if we keep Haley over Chuck situation, which gives Kamu flashbacks to the previous week? He's like, they're doing it again. Um, and this is what turns Kamu against D and subsequently you, uh, because he's like, I can't trust these people at all. There's also some other, like, you know, Haley tells him that D made a comment about him swearing on the Bible that wasn't true and,

[02:05:10] uh, some other stuff. But, um, but Kamu is really like, we need to take out D and I don't think we can trust Evans with this. Like, uh, he was in on that vote flip. Um, and, and I think he'll try to protect D and so, uh, like they instead are like pulling in drew and drew is up there trying to bro out with them. Uh, and he later gets in trouble for this, but he really was telling the

[02:05:36] truth. Like he was doing what he could to keep the focus on, uh, keeping you off the block, keeping Barrett off the block, uh, so that, you know, there'd be room to maneuver with only D and Angela on the block, uh, with Haley. Um, and, uh, but this is still bad, right? Like they're targeting D and you might need to use the diamond power of veto to save her. Yeah. And I feel like,

[02:06:02] um, at this, this is when I had that talk to the camera in the gym because there was so much going on. I was trying to work it out. I was just pretending like I was talking to Christian Hubecki saying, here's everything that's going on. And I feel like that's going to be a better representation of where my head was at than now than I can remember. But I just, I remember feeling like I was actually very safe with Yash and Kamu, but it would be at the expense of the icons. It would

[02:06:28] be the expense of like crossover, like drew could probably get in on that, but Barrett was never a priority for Yash and them. So I, I really felt like even though I could use that diamond power of veto down the road to keep myself like as an immunity idol, you know, just for my own safety, that now was the time that I could use it in the biggest way to keep my people safe. And also just hearkening back to week two and what we were able to do to target Rome and bring the tool shed

[02:06:58] together. I thought this is the time to bring in Mallory and Melody, uh, to create the mosh pit. And I was just going, how can I get the most bang for my buck? Cause you're right. So lucky to get this huge advantage. Well, let's make the absolute most out of it. Let's target the biggest target in the house. Let's keep the people I'm closest to safe. Both of them, Angela and, and D and let's bring together a new majority that can get us to the end of the game. Yeah. And I very much thought

[02:07:28] this was the play, uh, from the beginning. And also I think, especially because for as much as you were good with Kamu and Yash, uh, at the very least, like you were at the, you were being excluded from the core of what they were doing. They, they had made an official alliance with Lala and Taylor. They had their own final two. Um, they later are going to start talking about bringing Haley in, um, and essentially like pushing you further and further out, especially because they saw that

[02:07:57] you weren't super on board with targeting D. Um, and so for as much as like, maybe you could have stuck it out with them. Like you were always at the bottom of that structure and they were the two best competitors in the house. Like, uh, it was not, not the move in my opinion to go forward with that group. Uh, and this is very much that kind of like bold play of like stepping out of your comfort zone and going for something big that, uh, that I think ultimately is, is like the game winning,

[02:08:25] uh, stuff from you here. Yeah. And I got that same impression from Yash and Kamu. Like I was very careful that week, uh, to see how they managed me and the devote and the fact that they did leave me out of it, told me everything I needed to know about like this being the time to pull that trigger. And, uh, yeah, I do think, I do think it changed the course of the game for sure.

[02:08:51] Yes. Uh, the rest of the week is messy after you use this veto. You also, you're really trying to get D to use this bribe on you. Uh, you really want this $5,000. Thank God she didn't listen to me. Um, Kamu goes up on the block. You handle it like you did before. It's very straightforward, very matter. Like, listen, I got to do what I got to do. Um, and, um, initially the, because

[02:09:17] mosh pit forms Maladie, Mallory and melody, they are like skeptical of the mosh pit because they're like, I don't know if we can trust Devins and D but we'll go along with it for now. And maybe we'll flip back after we take out common because common is such a big threat, but Kamu Yash and Taylor make significant progress on flipping them to actually keep Kamu this week. Um, and Drew is constantly like putting out this fire, uh, like convincing them back over to take out Kamu and telling you

[02:09:46] about it. Uh, but this again only seems to further your suspicion. Like what is, what is Drew doing? Why is like, why is he telling us about this? And Barrett's not helping either because Barrett's kind of denying that it, that it's happening and then ratting Drew out further. Uh, and so you get to the point where you're like, listen, what, what they do reflects on you. If they flip, I'm going nuclear. Yeah. And like, all right, to melody's credit, she did a really good job

[02:10:14] of managing us. If it had just been melody, I would probably believe that she was with the mosh pit and that they did want Kamu because she would come, she would be in the room with us. She would talk to us when she passed by, she'd say, we're good. We got it. Mallory like could not have been more obvious that she was not with us. She avoided us like the plague. She looked terrified. Like you could see it in her eyes. She would look at melody and be like, are we doing

[02:10:40] this? Are we, and it was just like red flag, red flag, red flag coming from Mallory. And it was just hard to believe in my mind that they would flip on us without Drew knowing about it, uh, without Barrett knowing about it. So I thought their play, if I'm Drew and Barrett, what I would want to do is for them to flip on us and us to act blindsided. Like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe they did that. So I just needed them to know like, you're there's no get out of jail free card

[02:11:08] here. Like if they flip, you're being held responsible. And I was good. It was a total truth. I was going to immediately after the eviction vote say, anyone who wants to hang out here in the living room, I'm about to tell you everything I know about what's happening in the game. Every single piece of information. And D and I were almost disappointed. The vote went our way because we were looking forward to this. Um, so it was, it was not an implied threat. It was an actual threat. And we

[02:11:34] knew that we could not trust melody and now like, I think the mosh pit could have gone maybe even two weeks together. If it had not been so obvious that those two were going to turn on us and that they were not with us. And that was not melody's fault. That was Mallory's fault. Like it was all over Mallory's face, which is why, you know, ultimately Mallory became a target the next week. And I'll tell you, they, they wanted to flip with or without drew and Barrett. Like they would have

[02:12:01] done it if they had the numbers. Uh, problem is they didn't have the numbers in certain configurations, right? After Angela won that blockbuster, let's go. Right. Uh, but they get such, they get spun around so much by this week. They're like, well, we're in now the middleman position that D wins this HOH with Mallory melody and Barrett all throwing it thinking that they're

[02:12:30] in a good position. Mallory says right after the competition, she wanted to get to the position where she knew she could have beat D if she wanted to, and then chose not to because she's playing both sides. She doesn't want to upset either side. Barrett does the same thing. And this is, this is another one of those moments where it's just like changes the entire course of the season that they give this HOH to D because what a mistake it was. And we basically knew that they threw it to D like it was obvious, especially Barrett,

[02:12:59] like he could have gotten there. Um, but that's just wild work. Like, I don't know how Mallory didn't know that she had given up that they were going with comp. Like we knew absolutely that they were going to turn on us. So the fact that they would trust us in D after that, after we felt like they had no loyalty to the mosh pit, which I don't really blame them for, you know, but if you're, if you're going to not be loyal to us, follow through. And when that HOH

[02:13:28] should come after us because we're not stupid. Um, no, that that's, yeah, I'm with you. That was a mistake. That was a big mistake because I think Angela D and I all individually came to the conclusion. Like it's gotta be Mallory. Mallory's got to go. She's too good a competitor. She's too well liked. Um, and she's not with us at all. Yeah. You, you seem to, uh, have this idea first.

[02:13:57] Do you pitch it a bit to D that she should be the backup? Uh, D eventually comes up with the idea that she's, she just, she just wants to put an end to the true question. Um, you guys set up this whole situation for him to get it, stick his foot in his mouth, which works. Um, and, uh, and he goes up on the block and then calls out Lala, Yash and Taylor, uh, in an effort to prove his loyalty,

[02:14:22] which, which works finally, like, uh, D is like, he's proven himself. He's redeemed himself. Um, and there's this big sort of like anti Taylor, uh, and Lala and Yash like push, um, that, uh, the people were kind of like, uh, like, like this, this feels like a bit much here. Um, and, uh, I'm, I'm sure you've seen some of this. I think you, you were asked about some of this in, in some of the

[02:14:50] X interviews as well, that like, uh, there was this sort of, uh, atmosphere around, uh, Taylor and Lala that, uh, that made people feel uncomfortable the way that, uh, Taylor's was, was compared to other black women that have played the game and, uh, called lazy a lot. And then in this week in particular, it really felt like there was such a, uh, gang up mentality with like Angela talking about

[02:15:15] like wanting to make their weak, miserable. Uh, I think I've, I've, I've heard some things. I think other things I'm totally oblivious to up until right now, uh, I think, uh, I definitely referred to Taylor a lot as playing from the pod. I think that was, that was huge, but I mean,

[02:15:39] that was her zing. That was her comic book cover. Like, I think a lot of us were surprised that after the zing in the comic book cover, it would still be noon before we'd see her come out of her room. Like we thought that would be a wake up call, but that being said, like, I have seen stuff about like microaggressions, things like that. I'm a major believer that those things exist and can

[02:16:04] happen without us meaning to. Um, I, I obviously hate to think that I'm one of those people that can fall prey to that, but I absolutely think I can. Like, I think it's, it's, it's, you know, this isn't something I've faced in three seasons of reality TV, but there's so much live feeds. There's so many things. Like, I think it's something that I definitely want to take a look at. Um, I would hate to, you know, I, I certainly look at the circumstances of the game, I think are

[02:16:32] what put people in different positions. I don't think it was race-based. Uh, but I think it's a very real thing that I need to, you know, to examine and, and look at those situationally. It's not something I reject. It's not something I'm, I'm trying to deny. Like I would hate to, um, make either Lala, Yash or Taylor feel that way. And I, I need to make sure that that's not something that,

[02:16:57] you know, I have in my, uh, going forward that I'm oblivious to like, um, so, so I think that there probably really are things that I can look at and learn there, but I do think that mostly it's the circumstances of that game, um, in those, in those situations. At the very least, this is, uh,

[02:17:19] certainly not great for, uh, for the Lala, Taylor, Yash contingent here that Drew is going to get himself out of hot water, uh, and, um, and like into the clear. Um, but there is a little bit of a saving grace for Yash when D comes up with the idea that she wants to, uh, bribe him, uh, with the

[02:17:46] power. Um, and, uh, she comes up with this idea that like now that she's in a position of power, this bribe is not necessarily, doesn't have to necessarily be a bribe. It can be like a contract. Like I can force Yash into signing something that will prevent him from coming after any of us. Uh, and of course this is another huge, huge thing for you, especially in the game, uh, as it is going

[02:18:13] to just completely handcuff the best competitor in the house from being able to come after you. Yeah. It was an absolute stroke of genius from D to use it this way. And it's not something the bribe itself is not, I don't think played into what Yash was doing at all. It was the implied threat that if you don't accept this bribe, you're going up on the block and, and we're going to try to vote you out. You know, you'll have to save yourself with the blockbuster. So again, I was trying to

[02:18:42] get D to give me that $5,000 just to use the diamond power of veto. So she found an amazing way to do this. And it was a game changing move. Absolutely. Um, going forward, we saw how that played out. Well, it worked out so great for all of you to be able to neutralize Yash in that way. And I think that that probably played a part into why so many people were throwing that HOH where they thought, okay, well that the, Hey, this is the week that Yash is going, we're going to get rid of him.

[02:19:11] And then when you take him off the table as a person that you want to get rid of, then it really then opens up the door for Mallory to be such a ripe target for you guys. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it just became clear, like Barrett was getting closer and closer to Mallory. We were already worried about Drew and Melody. Now we're worried about Barrett and Mallory. And in the end, it's like, if I'm, I'm always trying to put myself in the

[02:19:40] shoes of the other people I'm working with. And if I'm Drew and Barrett, and I can go from this five person alliance with the crossover to a four person alliance against two people that I feel more comfortable competing against that I feel have, have less, you know, strategic acumen or experience in the game, like I would want to make that jump. I would want to go with FAP over the crossover. Um, so I was just very nervous about it. And it's like, if we can get rid

[02:20:09] of Mallory, that actually takes a huge threat away. Then there are three people instead of four people. And that, that's, that's just, it was gigantic. Yeah. Yeah. And this was definitely the play. I mean, it was so obviously playing the middle. Like when we had that Yash and Drew confrontation, she actually asked to leave the room and said it was because she didn't want to pick a side. And we're like, Mallory, like we're at the point in the game where we're picking sides. Like we don't

[02:20:36] want, why would we do that? Um, so yeah, it, it just, it had to, it had to happen. Yes. Uh, the only problem with the move of course, is that you have to find a way to get Drew and Barrett to not be super pissed about it. Um, you are, the plan is for you to play good cop while, while D plays bad cop, uh, which works. Um, and then you also have this situation where

[02:21:01] you don't overhear, but pretend to overhear a conversation between Drew and Barrett where yeah, Drew was essentially like talking to Barrett. Like, like, I don't know, like maybe, maybe we go FAP over crossovers now. Maybe we, we don't, we, we like change up our plans. This is like the most concrete they've ever talked about actually turning on you guys and you pretend to

[02:21:27] hear it. And it really puts the fear of God into them. Um, and you know, you have this conversation with them afterward and they're not admitting everything that they said, but the fact that like they have to confess to you, like you're their dad and, uh, and that you are so forgiving and like, yeah, I'm also annoyed about this with D it, it fully pulls drew back in, uh, which is to Drew's

[02:21:55] detriment this week. Uh, while Barrett is still kind of like, not sure. Uh, he's, he's pulled back in a little bit, but he sees Drew is fully pulled back in, which kind of sets up the rest of the week with Barrett and Drew. Uh, but tell me a little bit about this, this moment. It's a very fun one. It was so wild. First of all, I'm just laying down behind the couch. Like I, I guess they just walked by, didn't even see me there. And then I hear, and I can barely hear the words they're saying,

[02:22:23] but it's clear that it's this serious conversation. I'll hear like icons, but literally, I mean, we got planes going over, we got the washing machine or dryer going over here. Like I can't hear anything and I don't like in hindsight, I'm like, this could have blown up on my face a million different ways. Uh, but yeah, I just felt like when I got up, like it was on their faces that they'd been

[02:22:48] caught doing something they shouldn't major dad vibes. Like this is Jack and Jude do sitting there and I'm going, I can get something out of these two. Um, and I also just thought it was so fun. Like you saw me immediately in the gym, I'm laughing my ass off because I know that they're freaking out. And it was very strategic of just like, I'm not going, like I'm going to hide somewhere and let them come to me. Like they're figuring out their plan right now. And more than anything, I just,

[02:23:15] I was kind of throwing D under the bus this whole week a little bit by playing good cup a little too well. Um, and letting her take the fall on these, on the Mallory thing, even though it was kind of my brainchild, uh, in addition to hers, I think we came to it separately, but I definitely pushed for it. And then again, with, I was starting more and more to think I'd been locked in Angela D icon strong for so long. And the further in the game we went, the more I went, you know what,

[02:23:46] if we get to a final five, like I could go either way. Like I might end up with a Barrett and Drew final three. So I wanted to kind of bring them together and let them feel this and know that that's a possibility. And I know they kept like Barrett in this conversation was just like, you know, I feel like I'm on the bottom of this final five. So I was really trying to drive home that point of there isn't a bottom to the five. It depends on who wins that final five HOH that's

[02:24:13] going to determine how things go. Um, and this was just a chance to get closer to those two. Yeah. I know you haven't seen this yet. I think this was your best TV moment of the whole season. Uh, there's just this, this whole episode, uh, was, was really great. And you give the confessional of like, Hey guys, I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed. Uh, it was just like a, a really, really great button on the whole thing. So that was a hilarious moment. Oh, I look forward to seeing that.

[02:24:43] And so well played by you of that, you know, that you are faking your way through this whole thing. Yeah. Gotta love a good bluff as a dad. Don't you, Rob? Yeah, it was great. All right. So, uh, I know we're starting to run out of time, so we're going to try to be a little bit, uh, quicker through some of these events, but, uh, you try, you plan to blindside Drew and Barrett. You come up with the idea. Let's blindside them about the Mallory vote

[02:25:08] to not, you know, tell them unnecessarily. But then Haley accidentally says in front of Drew that Mallory is leaving, uh, when you're up in the HOH room and D's like, Haley, you weren't supposed to say that you need to go fix it. So Haley goes downstairs, uh, after she tells Drew and she's like, uh, yeah. Hey, Drew, I, I think I said that, uh, that what I meant to say is that Mallory will leave. He's like, that's what you did say.

[02:25:35] She's like, Oh, then I said it right. I don't know why they told me I said it wrong. Oh my gosh. At which point Drew's like, come on, Devon's like, is this happening? And you have, you admit it to him and then you admitted to Barrett. And so in many ways, because of this like stupid incident, Barrett now knows for sure that you're targeting Mallory, which is when he decides to flip. Uh, and he goes to Yash and they say, let's flip and keep Mallory.

[02:26:00] And Yash is like, let's flip and keep Taylor too. Like, let's just get out Drew and Barrett's down for it. He pitches it to melody and Mallory. He, uh, he says, um, you know, like, like we need this is what we need to Drew's willing to vote you out Mallory. Uh, and, uh, melody's like, well, he has been lying to us for a long time. And Barrett says we both have, and he tells them about the crossovers. Um, and he gets them on board to vote out Drew and Drew's all set to leave, uh, in this

[02:26:29] blockbuster, except he flips a coin and he chooses the right answer of two. And instead he stays and Mallory goes. Better to be lucky than good, man. I gotta, I gotta tell you. Um, yeah, that's, you know, and that's exactly why Mallory needed to go is because she had so much pull and sway over Barrett.

[02:26:52] Um, and that's exactly what we were scared of with FAP. Uh, but not, I think Barrett was in a pretty good space if he had let this happen. Um, but I don't blame him for making the move. Uh, I think he, it's easy for him to assume that I'm locked in with Angela and D I was starting to waver

[02:27:19] a little more back and forth. I don't know how much of that was shown, but, um, it, it, it makes sense. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. That's interesting, man. That's interesting. I don't know why he would turn on Drew over Taylor because he seemed to be much closer with Drew. And I don't think Drew ever would have done that to Barrett. Right. And that was like, the thing was like, it, it, it makes sense to flip and keep Mallory.

[02:27:46] Uh, but, but with Drew over Taylor or Taylor keeping Taylor overdrew, that felt like sort of like an emotional reaction in this moment. Like, uh, like he's just trying, like he's cause it, it, it was a very emotional time for him. Um, and, and I haven't talked to Barrett, so I couldn't tell you for sure, but love there by the way. Yes. And it definitely, it definitely felt like, uh, you know, he was just really pissed off that drew did such

[02:28:13] a one 80 cause drew was in there being like, this is actually good for us. We're with Devin's now. Like, this is going to be fine. Let's vote out Mallory. And Eric was like, fuck that man. Like, no. Um, so, uh, drew survives. We had straight into the medieval twist, um, which, uh, which works out, I would say ultimately pretty poorly for you and D, uh, because you lose Haley, which is like one of your biggest assets in the game at this point, you, you know, you've

[02:28:43] been working on pulling her in. I feel like more of an Angela and D asset than a Devin's asset. If I'm being honest, certainly. Yeah, for sure. Cause I thought it was weird as hell that she had drew and Haley going against each other first and not drew and Barrett. I'm like, why that's not sending the right message to Barrett at this point. Uh, and, and it, I, I became increasingly suspicious that Haley was going to end up taking my spot,

[02:29:10] which I think was certainly, is certainly possible. Uh, I think, but, but the thing is that once they lost Haley, they felt even less secure about their position with you and drew and Barrett, uh, which I think is also part of sort of part of the impetus for them wanting you out, which we'll talk and also fair because I was wobbling at that point. Yeah. Right. So, um, Barrett, when he chooses Yash to go in, he's intentionally trying to target Haley here. That

[02:29:39] is, he's part of his betrayal of this, uh, of the, the crossovers Haley leaves drew wins. The H O H drew has obvious nominations here. Taylor Lala. Yeah. She's not targeting you guys. He was just almost voted out by everyone else. Um, but this is, this is like the big thing, Devins. Yeah. You volunteered. Is that a bad idea? I think it might've been a bad idea because listen,

[02:30:04] your whole thing is that you want the dub, right? Daddy wants the dub. Daddy wants the dub. Daddy wants the dub. Yes, sir. And it's going to be a lot harder to get the dub if you're volunteering for the block. Yes, that's true. Uh, so, all right. I know it's a bad idea to volunteer. Obviously pawns go home. That's like the whole thing. Right. But I did feel like, Hey, I was

[02:30:32] antsy. I hadn't won anything since week two, H O H and veto. I never get picked for the veto. Like, it's just insane that Barrett and Melody are playing in every veto and I'm never getting picked for a veto. Um, I'm a believer in comp wins mattering for something. And I know some people discount that I would not have. People are like, Oh, he'd have gone home if the blockbuster hadn't saved them. I wouldn't have volunteered if there wasn't a blockbuster. Like my plan was to go in

[02:30:59] and win the blockbuster. Like that was, I didn't think I needed to don't get me wrong. Um, but like, that was the plan is like, I want to get a blockbuster when I want to go in there and send somebody home. I also was like, I did not believe that he was going to put melody up, which means he has to put up someone from the crossover. I'm the only one who hasn't been on the nomination block. So they're going to use that against me to put me up anyway. Um, if I don't

[02:31:27] go up, I think it's going to be Angela who probably goes up, uh, or Barrett goes up. They've already been up on the block. So it was kind of just like, it all made sense for me to go up. So, okay, let me earn some credit with the crossover Alliance by being the one to volunteer. Let me earn credit with drew by making it easier on him. And I can go in and win this blockbuster. All that being said, absolutely. I thought when I volunteered that I was safe, that bear had my back, that Angela and D had

[02:31:56] my back. I don't want to pretend like I thought they were coming after me, but there was a lot of thought that went into it. And I, again, I was, I kept referencing arrested development. Like this never works. It's the worst thing. It never works, but it could work for me. Yes. You were a millimeter away from Taylor dropping the fourth ball into the bucket. You would have gone home. I'm telling you, man, I'm telling you how many times do I say it's better

[02:32:24] to be lucky than good. And I was, and again, I was hustling my ass off. Like at no point did I think I could, you know, that I wasn't going to put everything I had into that blockbuster. Yeah. But yeah, it was. Have, have you seen the clip of, of Taylor's final ball, like going in and then out? Like it was, it was very close. No, I haven't. It was, you really clutched up. You got like two in

[02:32:50] a row. She was so close to beating you. It was really like, there was a moment there where it was like, Oh, Devon's is, Oh, Nope. The ball went out, man. Yeah. You know, I'm living on the edge. That's what I do. So melody, Taylor, Barrett, lot Yash, Lala, they're all locked in to take you out here with you on the block. Uh, first time I was on the block all season, by the way, and I volunteered

[02:33:14] for it. So not bad in terms of maybe not the best selling point that you volunteered for. Maybe just stick to the ball. The fact that it was the first time Taryn, I'm going to give you that one. Yeah. Drew was kind of annoyed that you volunteered because he wanted to put up D, but after you volunteered, he had no ground to stand on to get D on the block. Um, and so, uh, so he was kind of

[02:33:39] frustrated with that. Um, and at the same time, D and Angela are like, he's too close to, to Barrett and Drew. Um, you had made a joke in front of Drew and Barrett, uh, with D there where you said, did you forget about last week? And she was like, that joke. I know it. He's working against me. Um, and so she's, she's like, I get it. I get it. Yeah. She's like, I'm sorry,

[02:34:04] Becca, but, uh, I think it's time. I think, I think I need to make this move. Um, and so, uh, they're very much like all week long, they're ready to do it. They're ready to vote you out. Um, and, but the only thing is they don't want to, if they don't have to, and they're trying to figure out if Barrett is also going to flip because if Barrett flips, then they don't, then they can keep their hands clean. But if Barrett doesn't flip and they don't vote you out, then they missed their opportunity. So they're really

[02:34:34] like trying to figure this out like all week long. Um, and, uh, and at the same time, you are doing this play where you're threatening jury votes. Uh, if the, if people flip, which, um, which, you know, we can talk about its effectiveness, but it certainly is not effective when, uh, when D and Angela also want to vote you out. Yeah. Right. Um, but ultimately,

[02:34:59] uh, there's also a whole bunch of stuff with Lala and Taylor and, you know, Yash actually wanting Lala to stay as do, uh, Angela and D. Um, so everyone wants you gone, but they can't communicate both sides. Everyone wants Lala to stay, but they can't communicate with both sides. Uh, and ultimately Barrett is sort of seemingly the link between the two when it comes to the Lala vote.

[02:35:22] So Lala ends up leaving, um, which brings us to Barrett's HOH where, uh, this is, this goes very poorly. At this point, D and Angela are still like, you have become the new Drew to them. Uh, like they think that you have fully gone off with Drew and Barrett. So when they are like, if Barrett is potentially thinking about coming after us, he needs to use one of us as a pawn

[02:35:48] probably. And it's not going to be Devin's. And so Drew is convincing that Barrett to come after us. And Devin's is convincing Drew to convince Barrett to come after us. And so when Angela, uh, and you, you like, you know, Angela's, you ask Angela, I think like, how did the conversation go with Barrett? Oh my gosh. Yeah. At this point, she believes that you have set Barrett against her to put her up on the block.

[02:36:15] And so she's like, how, how is it supposed to go? Wasn't it? Well, it wasn't supposed to go any other way. Is it like, she's trying to, she thinks you're the enemy in this moment. It's very funny. That's so funny. Cause I was just like, yeah, obviously I was never after Angela or D at this point in the game in any way, shape or form. Like I was already torturing myself over, do I have to cut D at some point down the road? Um, but no, when Angela, you know, Angela's been so suspicious

[02:36:43] of Barrett and Drew this whole time. And then she comes out and it's all wrote like, it was like, she was living in denial world because I didn't know that she suspected me of anything. I'm just like, if I can't even have a conversation with you. Yeah. I was very frustrated. I was very frustrated in that moment. Cause I just felt like she was living in this denial world. I didn't know that she suspected that I was actively coming after there. Like, yes, I was trying to set up Barrett and Drew as an alternative, but I still wanted to go to the final five. I was never looking to take

[02:37:11] out Angela or D. Yeah. After that, she goes up and pitches to Barrett. She's like, why is it me and not, not Devin's like it should be Devin's? And he's like, it's all three of you. She's like, yeah. Um, so, uh, and this is part of it too. D had initially, D had already told Barrett about the bribe before the big meeting, uh, where, where you expose it to everyone. She had done so in an

[02:37:37] attempt to throw you under the bus again, thinking like, let's get, let's get Devin's on the block, uh, and not one of me or Angela. Um, but, uh, but then when it became clear, it was all three of you. Then all three of you got back on the same page, you out the bribe, uh, which Barrett still did not believe, uh, for the longest time, uh, despite everyone else being like, yeah, obviously this is probably the case. Super weird that he didn't buy that. I think he was just too far gone. Like,

[02:38:07] I think that he, he couldn't, he couldn't change his mind at that point and believing it was like, you know, well, I'm screwed anyway then. So he'd rather not believe it. Right. Yeah. Um, so then, uh, Yash ends up winning the veto. There's a whole ceasefire that doesn't really exist amongst the new players. Uh, and D makes a huge pitch to Yash and Taylor to save herself. Um, it's a great

[02:38:36] pitch. We call this like her, her masterpiece, uh, of the season. She manages to convince both Taylor and Yash that, uh, they should keep her because it's better to sit against her, uh, on the block than somebody like Angela, that if in the event that Angela and her on the block together, that means you've won the blockbuster. And if you're still in the game with Barrett and drew, they need her to keep you from working with, with Barrett and drew. She will keep you in check.

[02:39:02] Uh, and so like, Oh, that's a good point. Uh, cause we can't trust Evans. Um, and so, uh, you also, uh, try to make a pitch here. It does not work. Taylor and, uh, and, and Yash want to vote you out. They don't trust you, especially because of your connection to drew. They're very anti drew at this point. They don't think if they have the shot, they need you out because you're too connected to drew. Um, it, despite the fact that they were saying like, Oh, maybe if you make a speech against

[02:39:30] drew, they were like, what, what, what, we're promising him too much, but then they're like, Oh, no, it's good. Cause if he, if he survives, you want to be able to pretend that we were going to keep him. Um, and so, uh, you do, uh, win this blockbuster as well. Um, and, uh, and the flip comes in and D stays over Angela, which is wild to me still. Yeah. And I, I guess it did. I worked very hard to save myself Andy again. They're, they're, they're coming after me,

[02:39:58] but I was making the pitch, uh, hard for both of us in that scenario. Um, and was very glad, uh, when Angela went, because I heard that Angela, obviously like Angela was so in D's pocket and so not in my pocket. I didn't know she was actively after me the way she was before, but I knew that she wasn't an asset to me in any way, shape or form. Yeah. Uh, and so, uh, big stuff. Of course you did suspect that it was possible that they

[02:40:26] wouldn't have voted for you, but like, you know, it's, it is what I also assumed that they probably would have. Yeah. Mm. Mm. Uh, so, uh, they do pretend they would have kept you. Yash wins this next day show H, but he can't target you. So his target obviously has to be drew. Uh, this is when D says to you, uh, and you wanted to keep the five K.

[02:40:48] Uh, yeah. Thank you, D. Thank you, D. I appreciate it. Um, but then drew wins this big veto. Uh, and this is, uh, pressure cooker. Yeah, parents. Yeah, man. Uh, I was, I was psyched that drew one. I didn't want drew out. I, and I would have voted him out, but I wanted him to stay. So this,

[02:41:12] this allowed me to do that. It was the perfect outcome because now Barrett can go, uh, you keep drew. Um, drew did make a deal with Yash to win this veto, uh, that they would work together to the end, uh, which he did keep a secret for a little while at least. Uh, so there was some like, Oh, maybe he'll stick to this. Um, you do make a final four with Yash and Taylor, uh, called the

[02:41:37] culture. Um, and, uh, this is also very short lived, but, um, you know, there's a, there's a little bit of back and forth here. So D initially starts to talk about targeting Yash next, which you have some hesitance toward. Um, but then the positions kind of reverse and then reverse back. Uh, and you, there's all this confusion about like, what should be the plan in the double eviction, uh, depending on who leaves Barrett or, or, uh, you know, melody or whoever. Um, it doesn't really

[02:42:06] matter because, uh, ultimately you're not in charge of, of it because melody wins both the blockbuster and then the double eviction HOH. Um, and again, you are in the hot seat. You are the target here. If you don't win this veto, it's, it's it, that's it, right? Like, uh, you're kind of done. 100%. But you crush this veto. Let's go.

[02:42:35] Rick, I was at a big brother unlocked the night that they did this and special guest James Gunn was on the show. And I want to tell you that he was stressed for you. Like a family member was on the block and he went absolutely berserko when you won the power of veto. He's a good friend. Dude. How cool is that? How cool is it that James Gunn and I have that going on? This is like the best

[02:43:04] thing ever. Um, so no, I appreciate that. I did get word that most of those unlocked people were not on my side. Derek was pretty cool. The Taylor was actively bashing me. Uh, well, she was that, uh, I think that there were the big brother alumni wanted a big, they, they didn't like the idea survivor was coming into, but, but, but Taylor was off at the traders by that point. So she was, uh, she was, uh, you know, often often Scotland at that point, she didn't get

[02:43:33] to see your finest hour. Yeah, but I'll take James Gunn any day. No, no doubt about it. So I appreciate that, that you and he were at least, uh, sending me some good vibes. We had a high five, uh, and it was a nice moment. Uh, well, I mean, this plays out really well for you. Uh, you win this veto, which forces Yash on the block. Uh, drew sides with you guys. He votes out Yash, which is,

[02:44:00] I think the right call for him. Anyway, Yash was just too dangerous a competitor for sure. And beloved by everybody also. Right. It's also great for you, uh, because it opens the door for you to win more competitions at the same time that it opens the door for drew to win more competitions. Um, and you do win this next day to wage on top of $10,000, uh, which was the weirdest twist

[02:44:27] to just randomly give someone 10 K with nothing else involved. Very strange, very strange. Um, I'll take it. You might end up sending it to drew. I feel like I owe drew a little something. You might get a Pharaoh's curse out of this thing. Right. Uh, so obviously at this point, you, you're looking to target melody, uh, over drew. You want them split up. You would ideally

[02:44:53] want melody out here. D has other thoughts. She wants to keep melody. She's in the process of making a final two with her. Um, and she is going to confirm to the cameras and in the episodes that had the nomination stayed the same, she would have blindsided you or, you know, maybe she would have told you ahead of time, but she would have evicted drew here, uh, with Taylor. Um, and so it's again,

[02:45:18] great outcome that drew wins this veto for you. Yeah. And it was, it was kind of a tough spot to be in because it felt like either way, it wasn't going to go the way I wanted it to. Like if I had gone with drew and put up D that drew probably would have gotten rid of D D and kept melody. So either way, I was not in a great spot. So, um, I would rather have it where the way it worked out, where it was

[02:45:46] like drew and I would each fight for that veto and hopefully win that veto and be able to keep like, it worked out the way I wanted it to obviously. Uh, and there's luck involved in that, but I do feel like if I had put up D instead of drew that I'd be putting her at risk because drew would have turned on her too. I knew it was a weird thing because they would both turn on each other. Um, and I wanted them both there at that point. So I, I got lucky with how it worked out, but I

[02:46:14] wasn't oblivious to the fact that D was probably going to do that. Like it was clear that she'd been working melody for quite some time, her she'd been working melody and Taylor for quite some time. And while she was doing that, I was working drew. Um, with, so it all, it all turned out in the end, like it was drew saw also how much work D was putting in to Taylor and melody. And I think that came into his decision, uh, when he won the next veto. Yeah. Uh, and it's around this time you

[02:46:43] start telling the cameras because prior to this, you had mentioned that you were going to the final two with D like you'd planned to, right. It's around this time. You're like, maybe not. Yeah. She was just working way too hard on these other people and these other votes. And it was very obvious, um, how hard she was working on them. And I'm like, that's, I'm going to have a real hard time getting a Taylor vote or a melody vote, uh, or a Lala vote. If I'm sitting in the end with,

[02:47:12] with D and another thing that happens this week toward the end, cause drew's talking a lot with melody. Now knowing she's leaving, she's telling him straight up, you need to cut depth if you want to, to win this game. Uh, and she tells him that she, he can sit in the end with D he can't with devins. Uh, and so, uh, he actually talks with D and she also, they also make a bit of a final two

[02:47:36] that week. Um, which is partially why I think this decision at the final four, uh, was, was as close as it was. Um, Taylor wins this HOH and drew and D they're still like, Hey, we're taking each other for sure. Now D is lying. She's not cutting you over drew. She will cut you at the final three, not at the final four, just like you, uh, wouldn't cut her at the final four. But drew at this point

[02:48:02] is kind of telling the truth. He actually does kind of plan to cut you at this point in the week. Uh, but after he wins the veto, he says to the cameras, he's like, he picks up the phone to talk to melody. It's like, uh, I know what you'd want me to do, but I'm not sure I can do it. Um, and you put a dent, I think in this talking to him about how D is up there with Taylor. Um, D is like, we

[02:48:29] shouldn't be together. And Taylor's like, ah, it doesn't matter. Um, and, uh, we caught them. Um, we went through and, and open the door and D wasn't in there. D wasn't in there. And then we opened the door again and she's in there drinking Taylor's wine. And I'm going, thank you. Thank you. You could not have given me a better gift than this right here. And she kept going up there and listened to Kehlani. And then Taylor brings her a gift. It was all, it could not have been better

[02:48:57] for me and drew, but I think ultimately it came down to her saying no to drew's endurance comp throw, which blew my mind. I said yes in a heartbeat. I couldn't wait to say yes to that. Uh, I think that was the decision maker. That's what he said. Yes. He also is under the mistaken assumption that the final part three of the final three HOH is the old format, uh, which we've talked to you already, man. Um, in his mind, he would rather have competed against, he doesn't want to compete against,

[02:49:24] uh, Taylor in a spot where she doesn't, she cuts him because he thinks that Taylor's going to be really good at that part because she knows the jury so well. Um, which is also part of this decision, but, uh, ultimately it comes down. You survive. You are taken by drew. The work has paid off throughout the season. And, uh, and now you just need to win the final three HOH, uh, which, which you do. Yeah. And as you know, I studied like crazy. I, I was under the impression that drew

[02:49:53] was telling me the truth. And again, like, I don't think he was intentionally deceiving me, but you got nothing but time. So I, I absolutely studied my butt off, uh, like crazy and it paid off. I was shocked that I just assumed that even if I got the questions, right, the Taylor was also going to get the questions, right? Uh, so I had a bunch of different, I'd done so much math on how many minutes hours we'd been in the house. Like I was ready for that tiebreaker question.

[02:50:23] Yeah. Uh, and, and that's it. I mean, you, obviously the pitch that Taylor uses on you works. Uh, I know you had planned to bring drew for a while up until basically the last minute. Um, but, uh, but the, you know, the reality is you, you beat both of them, but you beat Taylor a little more easily. Uh, and, um, and that's, and that's it. Devins. Yeah. And I just had so much

[02:50:49] respect for the game that drew had played. Like, I felt like I had seen every bit of it and I still feel like some people dismiss it more than they should. Like he was in with everybody all the time. He won all these clunch comps when he needed to. Like, uh, I never felt really like I was manipulating drew. Like I really did feel like there was a partnership and a collaboration there. And to Taylor's credit, like, absolutely. I was going with drew the final two and she

[02:51:19] brought in that threat that I had used against her. Like it was my fault. And, uh, and she totally flipped that on me. Um, but no, I loved my time with, with both of them. Obviously I spent a lot more time with drew, um, cause we were out and about, you know, those, those final days. And I think she was studying, but, um, yeah, I can't believe how it turned out, man. It was great.

[02:51:45] Yeah. By a six to one vote, you are a big brother winner. Uh, now, uh, you've played more big brother than survivor, uh, and you've now won big brother. Uh, so yeah, I mean, we, I, we talked about that identity crisis at the start of this, but, uh, one of them has paid you a lot more. I'm telling you, I'm telling you, it's crazy. Um, I think Jeff likes me more than Julie,

[02:52:15] but, but no, they were both, uh, I think you want her over now. She was very cool about it. Yeah. She, she, she came and claimed, she told me before I even heard about it. She's like, just so you know, I said these things and I was wrong. She called herself a cow. I was like, Julie, she's like, honey, this is big brother. You're not going to play. I guess it worked out for me

[02:52:40] though. Uh, no, it was a wild adventure. Uh, I had so much fun with every single person in the house. Like I, I never thought I would get along so well with a bunch of 20 somethings. Um, um, it was, it was really cool, man. I appreciated it so much. The fans are wild, but Becca is just unbelievable. Trooper, uh, that, you know, she works harder than you did this summer. I have to say,

[02:53:06] dude, there's no doubt about it. There's no doubt about it. And I'm, I'm quick with the block. Like I'm like, you did a lot, but she was like day in and day out. Like, uh, she was, um, um, yeah. And, uh, the whole family ever, everybody was really like a very involved. I hear you dude. And good for them. I'll take it. I just block. And that's the only thing you can

[02:53:29] ever say. She's responding. She's doing all this stuff. Um, yeah, I think that it was a great adventure. It was, it turned out better than I ever could have imagined for sure. What's next for you, Rick? Good question, Rob. Good question. We're waiting. We're taking it. As it comes right now, my inbox was full. I'm trying to make my way through trying to see what's real, what's not. Um, but always, always available to our app. Obviously I need to catch

[02:53:59] up on survivor. Uh, I haven't even started 51, but I look forward to it. I hear good things. We'd love to get your thoughts when you get there. Yeah, but no, it's been cool. And again, like every community has its toxic people on Twitter, but, uh, I've met so many great big brother people, including people that I think like past contestants, past house guests that were actively rooting against me that when it was all said and done say, you know what? Good job. You got it done.

[02:54:27] They wanted, they want, they didn't want a survivor to come in and win. And that's exactly how I'd feel as a survivor. If a big brother player was there, I, you know, I don't want you to come in and make it look like it's easy. Like, give me a break. Um, so no, it's been really cool. I'm excited to be a part of this new community. Like I got Taron talking to me. I'm R Hap. Like, this is great. So many people I'm sure you saw, we're talking about your book in there, Taron and Rob, every time they did, I started talking about your book too.

[02:54:54] I appreciate it. And Fishback's book, you know, we had to push all the books. Uh, but no, it's been so cool. Like what a gift, man. I'm, I always, when I get voted out, I talk about how I'm the luckiest guy in the world because I had the family, I have these opportunities. I have this, all this stuff going for me. And now I won the game. I'm like, my mind is blown. I haven't gotten anything in my bank account yet. So I still think I might've been scammed by CBS, but, uh, I, I just feel like the

[02:55:21] luckiest guy in the world. Is it healing? Cause, cause I know there's like, there was some, some like scarring, right? There was some like sort of trauma from those losses. Does this feel like it, it's sort of like healed everything over? Yeah. And you know, it's weird with the trauma because I really, at the end of my survivor seasons, it's like, I got fourth place. I got seventh place. Both times I had so much fun. It's like most people don't win shows that they go on. Right?

[02:55:50] Like how upset can I be? I see it, Rob. Uh, but absolutely. When I got so close this time and I thought this is going to be my story. I'm Sisyphus. Like the rock goes up the hill. I get so close and then I got to start all over again. And I remember it might've been the very last day. It might've been the day before the last day that they had us in lockdown and they're playing music

[02:56:14] and they played Frank, Frank Sinatra my way. And I was just going like the lines hit me and I was like, I'm going to lose again. Like, like this is going to be my story again. Um, so the fact that I actually won, it's, um, it's definitely healing and it's definitely, I mean, it's, it's unbelievable. I still haven't wrapped my mind around it, honestly. Yeah. Well, uh, anything else that you

[02:56:44] want to, uh, to bring up or mentioned to, to cap us off here? No, man, just that it was a long summer. Uh, you know, I, I feel like I have a very good relationship with all my house guests. Uh, uh, that means a lot to me. Rob knows me enough to know that I've got this big empty hole. I need to be liked. Like I want to be liked by these people. Um, so anything I did that upset anybody in the house, outside the house, like I apologize again, I haven't even started watching

[02:57:12] the season and looking back, but like, uh, I don't think I'm above her approach. So those, those are things I'll look at, but I just had the best time. And I'm so appreciative that I was invited on the show that I got to do that. I hope that the big brother truthers understand that I respect their game and tried to play it as hard as I could. Like I I'm in it now, man, I'm a big brother person now. So I just, I'm very grateful for everybody who, who was here along the,

[02:57:39] along the way. Yeah. Well, Rick, you did an incredible job. Also Taryn, the prep you put into these interviews is just absolutely unmatched and, uh, you know, incredible job once again. Thank you. There is a sound bite I need to play for you. Whatever daddy Devin says, baby boy drew follows. The kid has no spine. Oh no, that's not true. Yash. That's not true. We talked over things together and he was one comp

[02:58:09] away from winning the whole thing. Uh, yeah, I love drew. I, I hope it comes across how much I love and respect the game that drew played. And, uh, yes, there were times that I didn't know where he stood, but there was never a time where I didn't love the kid. And, uh, dude at 22, like you, you got to spend time with him, Taryn, um, doing the interview and I'm sorry. I kept it to three hours.

[02:58:33] I know that's not even a deep dive for most of these big brother people, but he has got this it factor. Like he has got something special. We're going to see more about him. I'm not returning to the house anytime soon. We're going to see more about him. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Uh, because my kids aren't grown enough yet. Like I can't leave them for another summer. Uh, I would love to come back once they're tired of me, but until then give drew that spot and I can't wait to see what he does.

[02:59:02] It's going to be amazing. All right. Well, uh, that is what we have for you then with the Devon's deep dive. Uh, where should people find you Devon's if they want to keep up? Dude, you can find me on Instagram, Rick underscore Devon's. Uh, you can find me on Twitter, although I'm avoiding those Twitter streets right now. Once I start rewatch it, watching survivor 51, I'll probably get on there with my witticisms. Uh, but until then, man, uh,

[02:59:31] you get back on cameo yet. Oh dude, of course. Yeah, of course I could never win enough money to keep me off cameo that that puts a smile on my face every time. Uh, so you can find me there too. All right. Uh, well you can find, uh, what I'm doing on, uh, on my patron. I'm currently doing a big brother to rewatch where I'm going through the archives of the live feeds into from

[02:59:57] 2001, uh, and doing daily live feed updates for that season. Uh, so if you are a masochist like me and want to join me, you can find that on my Patreon, uh, watching all kinds of other shows as well. I'm sure we've got some more interviews coming up, uh, for big brother. Uh, and, and Rob, you've got lots of survivor things. Sure. And we're in the thick of it, uh, survivor 51. And so we've got all of the coverage here, uh, going on all through the fall. So, uh, be on the lookout

[03:00:25] for that. All right. Thank you all so much for joining us. And Rick, once again, thanks for making all the time. I know, uh, how busy you are. So I appreciate it. Take care of everybody. Have a good one. Bye.