Big Brother 8: A Weekly Big Brother Season Retrospective

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[00:00:45] Everyone and welcome back to the Big Brother Retrospective Podcast here in the off season. I'm your host, Aaron Armstrong. And of course, we are here today to talk about the latest in the line of seasons. A year after Big Brother 7 came Big Brother 8 in 2007. That's that was the easy way to remember what year each season was in was that it was one less than the number season.

[00:01:15] So Big Brother 8 was in 2007 and Big Brother 9 was in 2008 and Big Brother 10 was also in 2008. We're going to talk about that when we get there. But with me to talk about Big Brother 8 is Lavina. How are you doing, Lavina? I'm doing so good. I'm here. I'm ready to I will now be performing podcasting.

[00:01:39] And I cannot wait to get more into that little quote from one of the most iconic house guests of all time in my in my book. But I'm so excited. I'm excited to be talking to you. I feel like we haven't talked like in a way we've been podcasted in a while. I'm excited to talk about Big Brother in general. I haven't podcasted about Big Brother in a while. I haven't podcasted in a while personally, so I'm super pumped.

[00:02:02] Yes. Well, Big Brother 8, the first season to not have Arnold Shapiro at the helm. This is the first official Alison Grodner season. And they are really going to pretty immediately ramp up the game twists here with America's player.

[00:02:23] And it also seems to mark a bit of a shift in sort of how controversial things are going to get in the next two seasons. So plenty to talk about here with Big Brother 8. But first, Lavina. We have a poster, a Big Brother All Stars poster to talk about. If you had to guess. Who are the top three in order on the Big Brother All Stars poster? For the season? For the season.

[00:02:55] If I had to guess. Is, I'm going to say Jessica for one of them. This was for Big Brother 8. But first, Big Brother 7 All Stars from last week. We're going to reveal the results. Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. I need to get better at explaining that because that is not the first time that a guest has understood me. Yes. You just broke my brain so bad. So bad. So bad. I was like, oh, give me Jessica.

[00:03:25] Any excuse to talk about her? Yeah, you go. Well, so, I mean, here's the thing. I guess, what would your top three be for Big Brother All Stars for the top three on the poster? From seven? From seven. Oh, okay. Easy. Dr. Will. Janelle. And unfortunately, I'm not going to pick the winner. I mean, fortunately, whatever you want to, whatever you want to call it. Um, I'm going to say Kaser. Bye. Okay.

[00:03:54] Uh, well, the audience. Little little bit. I don't know. This might be a controversial pick by the audience. Um, Kaser was not on the poster. Oh, uh, some people are, uh, I'm seeing in the chat. Some people saying Mike, how about Mike Boogie, the winner? Mike Boogie, not on the poster. Good job guys. Uh, in the third spot was in fact Daniel Reyes. Okay. Well deserved. Absolutely.

[00:04:24] Um, and indeed number one and two was Will and Janelle, but not in that order. Oh. Janelle number one. Uh, I mean, yeah, that's not a surprise to me at all. She's the darling of the franchise. Truly. Uh, that's two seasons in a row. She was the number one for season six and now also the number one for season seven.

[00:04:51] The first two time number one placement. I don't know if we'll ever see this again. Yeah. Um, maybe Dan. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say something controversial and say maybe Nicole, Nicole Franzel. Um, maybe, I don't know. She would. I can see it. She has, she has an argument for 18, but I'm not sure she has another number one season. Yeah.

[00:05:20] It would have to be BB 22, I think, but that's what I would say. Like there are other lots of contenders there. Yeah. 16. No, the 16 had too many big characters in it. So I could see 22 though. Mm hmm. Reindeer games. Yeah. If we do reindeer games, there you go. We should. Uh, I'm seeing a lot of chicken George robbed. Ah, period. The chat, you, the chat always gets me, man. You guys get me.

[00:05:49] We're on the same wavelength guys. Mm hmm. Oh, Dr. Will looks so handsome here. I had to say it. There you go. Back me up. All right. Well, let's then move on to season eight. One year after Janelle and will and Danielle played on season seven, they brought back the house for a new season. This one, uh, a rivals season.

[00:06:18] The twist of big brother eight, uh, was that guess what? Some of the people on this cast secretly already know some of the other people on this cast. Could you believe it? Uh, very unique twist that we've never thought of before a couple of times. Mm hmm. But hey, the, but the unique part of this is that, hey, they don't like each other. No, I get that the X's probably didn't like each other either, but this is a different

[00:06:46] thing where like, yes, one of them is a pair of X's, but like, but they don't have to strictly be X's this time. So it is different. They can beef over $5. That's equivalent. That's equivalent in my book. This twist. Couldn't have been more specifically designed for Danielle and I would argue Taryn. That's the theme for the whole season, but we'll get into that. Yeah, perhaps mayhaps.

[00:07:16] Uh, because they really like, they clearly had no other real. It was a rival season. And let's just hear the, here are the rivals, uh, the rivals that came in a little bit later. It was, uh, Dick and his daughter, Danielle, Jessica and her like $5 feud from high school. Friend of me. I think they might've called it friend of me, friend of me, perhaps. Yeah. And then, uh, Dustin and his ex Joe.

[00:07:46] So like the idea of this being rivals and different than the X's is that, uh, you had, you know, rivals, but like, but, but the, but the Jessica thing was so clearly. Just pulled out of nowhere. This is worse than the case or Michael connection. Like they just were looking to cast one of them or, or just to make some kind of, uh, like, oh, there's three. See? Um, and then the other one was just a pair of X's and it's just like the X factor again.

[00:08:16] Like, it's just, it's so clearly was meant to just be Dick and Danielle. Um, and really in a way that it was like kind of going back to, you know, the project DNA, uh, like, Hey, we, we just want like this estranged father and daughter. This guy is going to be good TV. We're going to stick his daughter in the house with him, even though she wants nothing to do with him. Uh, and it's going to make for great television. Yeah.

[00:08:43] And I mean, listen, I think when I think about what else could they have done in terms of casting rivals, what other situations are there except an X or, I mean, for the beefing friends, frenemies, whatever you want to call it. They couldn't have come up with something at least a little bit better than, yeah, I haven't seen her since high school.

[00:09:08] Like even like they looked shocked about one another while on that first day when they came down, she's just like, Oh, it's Carol. Okay. Whatever. Anyways. Like it's, it's, it's, you know, like they couldn't have come up with someone who had like a big falling out. Like you're totally right on the, on the fact of like, they cast the two of them, like Dick, Dick and Danielle. And they were like, okay, fill in the rest backwards. And then they got lazy with Dustin and Joe and we're like, well, that's X's. And like, that's fine. But I don't know. I did. I did enjoy Dustin and Joe.

[00:09:37] If you were cast on big brother eight, the season of rivals, who would have been your rival? Ooh. Okay. I don't want my X. Um, because I think I was lazy. I think that's late. If it's your X, then it's an X's season. I think it has to be rival. Rival. Ooh. Okay. Um, should I take it there, Taryn? Should I, should I do it? Should I talk about 2020? 2020. Yeah.

[00:10:07] So question nation stand up. No, I'm kidding. Um, yeah, that's all I can think of. I don't really have like beef with anyone in my life because I feel like I, I just don't live that way. And I just, I don't know. And I, if I've had falling out with friends, we've like reconciled at our cool now. So like it would have, we would have to go back to 2020 fill in the blanks guys. If you were there, you were there. You, if you know, you know, I feel like I would just be Carol.

[00:10:34] I would just be like, Oh, you, you as Carol's killing me like that, like beef from high school. Yeah. I don't even know if I have that kind of beef in high school, maybe with like the woman who at my high school was like the office manager and was like really mean to all anyone who wasn't a cheerleader. And I was not. And, um, she did not give me my cap and gown on time because she's like, Hey, I don't know if you're passing your math class.

[00:11:03] So I don't know if you're graduating. Like literally said that to me and made me cry at school. So like maybe her and I can be the rivals, but she's much older than me. So like, you know, I think that's kind of funny. Maybe if they like found like the guy that like was swerving all over the road and cut me off and like slammed on his brakes, that kind of person. Like that would be a rival of mine. Oh, you're doing like Netflix's beef. If you've heard of that. I love that.

[00:11:33] Okay, wait, that's like a subplot. I love that. I want that. That would truly be a way to like implement this twist in a seek and with secrecy where it's like, here are, this is, this is the rivals, uh, season. And you're like, wait, but none of us know each other. And you're like, well, you're just going to have to find out why your rivals production. Are you listening? Allison? Oh my God. Turns out the person you've been working with this whole time, your best friends. Now you're like super, super tight.

[00:12:03] And then all of a sudden, uh, toward the end of the game, you're talking about that one time that you were driving to work and then they're like, oh yeah, I was also driving on that road. No, wait a minute. It was you. It was you. But then like they would have to find people from the same region. They have to like a love is blind kind of thing. Because like, if like you and one other person is from like, like if I'm like from the Bay area and another person, there's only one other person from the Bay area. Then like, I know it's you.

[00:12:31] So they got to throw in like four or five or sorry, six of us at least. Right? Like half and half. Make it interesting. Um, well, uh, that wasn't the only twist this season, uh, because nobody quite frankly remembers this as the rivals season. Um, and quite frankly, very few people remember the other rivals, uh, period. And, uh, you could guess why the first two were immediately evicted. Uh, and we'll talk about that.

[00:12:59] Um, people remember it as Dick and Danielle season. They also remember it primarily as the America's player season. Uh, this was the season where one of the players in the cast was secretly controlled by America. They had to do whatever the audience voted for them to do all season long. And that was of course, uh, Eric Stein, who is, uh, going to be pretty far down on this, uh, slideshow.

[00:13:27] But, uh, Eric Stein became America's player, famously a big fan of the show. Uh, probably the original sort of super fan archetype. Um, and, uh, I think they knew that it would be particularly easy to a, uh, get him to be able to be effective in the game because he had, he showed a lot of promise. Uh, and B that he would have to accept because he would never turn down the offer and not be able to play.

[00:13:55] But, uh, so you, you, you, you know, what do you do? You're, you're basically all the way there, all the way about to play the game. And then they're like, oh yeah, one more thing. Uh, here's the twist of the season. Oh, and sorry. Now that you know, if you say no, then you're not going to get on the season. And honestly, never. All of us. Right. Uh, and just like that, he is America's player and cannot control any of the actions he takes in the game.

[00:14:23] Um, and, uh, turns out that's going to be very, very, very, very influential on the course of the season. Very, very is understated in my opinion. Um, yeah. Eric is one of those people that always makes my personal list of players I would want to see come back. It's probably, I think he's probably not interested anymore.

[00:14:41] I'm not sure what he said even on our network before, but, um, or where he stands on it currently, but I would love to see him come back and just play his own game because he clearly had the chops for it a particular week. Um, where Dick and Danielle should have been screwed. We will discuss, um, spoiler alert. Um, he was able to, you know, not by his own free will, not that he wanted to do this, but he was able to flip a vote in the favor of Dick and Danielle.

[00:15:08] So he's got the chops and he's got the social game. I think he's an incredibly entertaining TV character and I really would love to see him come back one day, but that's me being selfish always. Yeah. I mean, I, in my mind, season eight is one of the closer seasons to like an international version of the show in that the audience is extremely influential in the direction of the season.

[00:15:35] And thus, uh, the edit who, which is sort of in control of how the audience feels about the players is very in control over the outcome of the season. Um, and unlike a season of the international version of big brother, where, you know, how you are portrayed in the edit and how you are portrayed in general is basically the game.

[00:15:58] Uh, nobody on this cast aside from Eric knew that, uh, that, you know, how they were being portrayed was an essential part of, uh, succeeding in the game. Um, so, uh, basically it was a version of the show where everybody thought they were playing one game, but they were actually playing a different one.

[00:16:21] Um, and, uh, and that did actually make for compelling television, I think a lot of the time. Um, but certainly not something that could, I think, sustain itself long-term and, uh, and definitely has soured the season, uh, in the eyes of, I think many fans who, uh, do not appreciate how sort of unfair it was for, for pretty much everyone involved.

[00:16:46] Yeah. This is one of the seasons where I'm, I'm personally not a big person that's like, oh my God, this is rigged production rigged it. And here's how, like, I'm not that person. And I never will be. Um, and I'm still not saying it for this one. I'm not saying it's rigged, but I do. I think that production had a really big hand in this particular one. Absolutely. Do I think it was a little bit contrived ahead of time where it's like, okay, we've got this incredible story on our hands.

[00:17:10] And I, and it reads very interesting as a fan. I get that as I'm watching it, I see that you want to keep that, keep them in as long as you can. You want to make the headlines. You want your show to make the headlines. And sure enough, they certainly did. Was I there at the time? Not really. I was kind of young, but like to go back and see, certainly it was making headlines. It was making waves.

[00:17:31] And, um, they want to make sure that they stay for as long as they can. And if they have a certain edits and they have a person in the house, that's like doing, it's like their third person, essentially to the third Donato really. Um, then like, why, why would I not feel like it's slightly contrived? Like it's not rigged, but you know.

[00:17:53] Yeah. I mean, season eight is the season of the show that most closely resembles the ideal version of the show for the producers. Like this was exactly what they want. Like everything that happened that season is like the way that they would probably wish it would have happened.

[00:18:14] And that's because, you know, you know, what, what does it really even mean to have rigged this season is the season is like very obviously rigged in the sense that like the producers control the edit and the edit controls the popular vote and the popular vote controls Eric and Eric controls the house.

[00:18:37] So like, you know, it's not like, you know, it's not like a direct sort of cheating kind of rigged, but like, yeah, I mean, very, very clearly the producers had immensely more power in this season than probably any other. And I don't think it's a surprise to anybody that the way this season plays out is the most coherent storyline that the show has ever really properly produced.

[00:19:01] Um, because they were able to sort of create that storyline and it was a self propelling storyline. The, the more compelling the storyline was, the more clear it was, the more it reinforced itself by having the audience vote to reinforce it. Um, and so, you know, it, it really was this like, uh, machine that just kept building itself stronger and stronger.

[00:19:25] Um, and, and again, like despite all of that, you, you can't really deny that it made for really compelling television a lot of the time. Um, you know, watching Dick and Danielle, uh, and, and the interactions that they had, the way they started, the way they ended, the way that, you know, Dick played the game very differently than most people would because he was kind of enabled to, uh, by the twist.

[00:19:52] And so, uh, you saw this sort of unique thing in the world of big brother. Uh, and even though it was most similar to the international versions, it was still different in the sense that they were again, playing a different kind of game than they act or than they thought they were. Um, and that made for an interesting sort of imbalance. Uh, so it's a strange season, a very strange season.

[00:20:16] And I think a pretty appropriate one personally, in my mind for it to, to have been sort of like Alison Grodner's first one. I think it represents a lot of the changes she kind of made to the feel of the show in general. Um, and so, uh, here we are big brother eights. Yeah. And this is one of the seasons. I say this all the time. I don't even know why I wouldn't even, I don't even, it's not even in my top three. I don't even know if it's in my top five personally.

[00:20:44] Um, but I've watched it so many times. I always go back to it. Um, because I think for me, it kind of encapsulates a near perfect. I'm hesitating to use the word perfect or even near perfect here because of the obvious issues and controversies around it. But for me, it's like when I watch it and I was telling Taryn before we went live that I was watching one of those, like all fights of this season. And it was like two and a half hours long, um, before, you know, like earlier today.

[00:21:13] And I was rewatching all of the fights and I'm like, wow, if this was airing live, I would hate all of these people, including Jen Johnson, which is wild for me to say. Um, but like, I would just get so sick and tired of these people, but ultimately the storyline, the fighting, yes, it got downright nasty sometimes, which I don't co-sign. But as a messy reality TV fan, I like to see it sometimes. I like to see how they handle it.

[00:21:38] I like to see how Jen is so unbothered for like 99.9% of the time. I'm like, I respect that. Um, I like to see, you know, the gameplay that's involved. See how is Eric going to maneuver? What are they going to tell him to do this week? So I think it's, um, one of those seasons that I go back to because it's so 2007 reality TV that I know and I love.

[00:22:05] And like, I don't see a perfectly, yes, again, it's contrived, just as you said, um, as we said before the storyline and such, we're not going to see a storyline like this, like now anymore on big brother. I really don't think we will. I think one of the closest storylines we naturally got to see in recent seasons is probably Taylor Hale's journey in 24, which is a totally organic, you know, unscripted thing. Yeah.

[00:22:34] And that's, that's sort of the thing that's, I think one of the reasons why the show has lasted so long is that when, when it does hit, when it does create a good storyline, it's, it's genuine. It feels real. And this was just too, you know, polished around the edges. And it's weird to say that season eight was polished, but the storyline itself was too, uh, too, too polished.

[00:23:00] Um, and it, and it just, yeah, it just didn't feel organic or genuine enough in the way that most other seasons do, uh, which is not to say that there aren't different, you know, methods and ways of interference and things that changed and all of that stuff. But like, uh, for the most part, when a season happens, like, you know, the, the audience themselves are creating a lot of the narratives because, you know, things happen, uh, on the show. Um, especially nowadays. Uh, and I think that's important to, to distinguish from as well.

[00:23:29] Like nowadays knowledge from the feeds is a lot more prevalent than it was back then. Um, and so it's harder for production to control the narrative in the way that they were able to back in a season eight, uh, during this season, there was a fair amount of outcry.

[00:23:49] Over evil Dick and the things he was saying and the things he was doing, but because a good amount of that didn't make the edit, uh, most people didn't know about it. And most people thought like, yeah, we're obviously seeing the worst of evil dicks. Like, uh, Oh God. No, you are not. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:12] So, um, so, but, but it was easier for them, I think to, to really sort of like, you know, do that in the way that they, they did. Whereas now, uh, the, the audience has more tools to fight back and create their own narratives. And that, that really didn't exist, uh, back then nearly as much, which is, I think maybe what you will, you might've, you might've noticed that when you talk about big brother as a history, um, talk about the, the old big brother seasons.

[00:24:40] A lot of what you talk about is fairly in line with the way that it was portrayed. The way people remember it is often the way they portrayed it. It's not until later seasons that you get to this point where, uh, you're like, Oh, well there's that season. Oh, but did you know that it wasn't actually that way? Like, did you know that Jeff was actually a scumbag or like, did you know that, uh, you know, so on and so forth. Um, and it's like, Whoa, I didn't know those things.

[00:25:04] That doesn't happen as much with the older seasons one, because they're older and people don't remember those things as much too, because, uh, the, the knowledge, even if you were watching at the time is, was much less available, much less prevalent. Um, and so, uh, and, and I would say three, they were probably a bit more honest in the edit back then.

[00:25:25] You know, they certainly still left a lot out, but they weren't quite as overtly manipulative as they appeared to be, especially in this era, starting in around season eight, where it really felt like they were specifically angling for a certain results when it came to specifically evil. Yeah. I mean, definitely like they, I don't, I don't think they were hiding stuff in the edit back then because they were looking for bad stuff.

[00:25:51] Like at that, at that era of reality TV, especially 2007 prime, like they were coming off, like not super, you know, like not super recent in this time, but like the real world really like blew up like in the early two thousands. And it was, it got, it became kind of nasty, you know, and people were very much tuned in for it.

[00:26:17] And I think like stuff like bad girls club and all that stuff, like they're looking for nasty in a way, like not like so crazy nasty where it's like, we're going to show this stuff. But I mean, but like, I mean, in the, in the next season, big brother nine, there was some really horrific stuff being said. So I think it's, um, they're looking for it. They're not hiding it. I feel like now they're even as early or as early or I guess soon after this season, like I have to say big brother 11 is one of the more egregious ones.

[00:26:46] The stuff that they hid like that, even that first week, like I'm, I know I'm jumping seasons, but that guy Brayden and the stuff that he was saying that none of us even knew about, like they were already hiding that. But like, I feel like in these earlier seasons, you're right. They're not hiding anything. And I think it's because they were wanting it to happen actually. Uh, yeah, I wouldn't say anything, but maybe, uh, as much or as blatant. Yeah, it would be probably the phrasing I would use. We're going to see you. We're going to see you.

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[00:28:16] But let's talk a little bit about the cast here. Because again, we have this Rivals twist, which again was primarily just done in the same exact way the X's twist was done, or at least very similarly, where you had the original cast coming in and then secretly upstairs you had the Rivals who were sitting there. They were watching on the TV screen like, oh, look at that. Oh, that's my daughter. And, you know, like, oh, that's Carol.

[00:28:45] That's my ex, Joe. Oh, my God. He gave me gonorrhea or whatever. I would watch that 50 times and a half. I don't care. I'm a big Justin. Oh, my God. I just mixed up. Is that their ship name? Justin? Joe and Dustin. Like, I can't think of another word. So Stan. I'm just going to call it a Stan because, like, I would love to watch them interact forever on a loop. It's so entertaining.

[00:29:15] Like you said, everyone forgets their other Rivals, not me. Not a high. Well, unfortunately for their counterparts, after they go and and of course, like like Carol is is like, well, I don't know who would be here for me. She's certainly not expecting Jessica to walk down. Joe immediately knows and Danielle immediately fears. And and down they go.

[00:29:44] And and, you know, in this in a scene that is somewhat reminiscent of Allison responding to her ex Justin being there. Danielle is very shaken up at the fact that her father, who she has intentionally gone no contact with, has shown up in a televised house that she is stuck in for the next 80 plus days. And she is very quickly going to be like, yeah, he sucks.

[00:30:13] He's she's like, you know, you know how you can have like mean friends. He's like a mean friend. Yeah. And that's not the first time she says that either. Like she says it to his face, too. That's horrible. We have to remember, like Danielle pissed me off this season. OK, I'm going to say it right now. Both of them pissed me off at like astronomical levels. But she's like 20 or 21 or something at this time. Right.

[00:30:41] I think she's the isn't she like 19. Oh, my God. Or was that that girl from 11 or did she lie? I know that I know that Natalie was young. I know that what's her name from from four was young. Oh, yeah. The ex girl. Yes. She's 18. Danielle's 18 here. Let me just try to find.

[00:31:12] Wow. Where are the ages? It's probably just. I think she was 19. No, maybe she was 20. Either way, this is a lot. She was not old enough to drink. That's what I remember. Yes. Yes, for sure. It's just a lot to go through. I didn't have a point. It's just like I wanted to like say it. Like it's very young. Oh, my God. Yeah. To be televised. Wow. A lot like, yes.

[00:31:38] Younger than you would anticipate to be on on the show. Yeah. So. So that happens. And very quickly, they get into the game. Of course, famously, Kale is going to become the first HOH of the season. Um. And Kale is going to have, uh, quite a, quite a time here.

[00:32:04] Uh, we can, I think, briefly talk about, uh, Kale before, uh, let me try and. There it is. Um. Kale wins the first HOH. She is like the mom of the cast, which, uh, like I'm looking at her photo now and I'm, I'm about to look up her age and, and be, uh, distraught. Um. Um. She's 37. Okay. It's not as bad as I thought. Um. I thought she was going to be like way younger.

[00:32:32] Well, it's, it's like, she has like, it's the whole like Miss, uh, Mrs. Robinson thing going on. And she's got her guys, Mike and Nick, um, or, uh, yeah. Like she's got Mike and, and, um, and, and like, uh, she's got the, what was it? The Mrs. Robinson Alliance now. I can't even remember the name. Um. Zach as well. And it was, it was, it was Nick, uh, Zach and Mike, the, uh, the three, three big guys,

[00:33:03] um, with, with her at, at, at 37 years old. The entertain, the interchangeable white men is of the season basically. And listen, I'm a big Zach fan. Okay. And I'm saying that. Zach was 30. He's only seven years younger than her. Wow. Okay. I didn't know that. Uh, I feel like that's one of the, the most interesting things about these, uh, going back is just looking at how old people were. I know.

[00:33:31] I feel like it, it, it was older. No. Yeah. I feel like it was older. An older cast. Um, I think that it was, it, there were a couple of specifically older people, but I think in general, it was actually pretty young cast. Like there was, there was Dick at 44, Zach at 30, Kale at 37. Everyone else was in their twenties. No one can be BB 10. No one can come for, come for her throne. You know?

[00:34:01] Um, so Kale wins and she is going to put, uh, Amber and Carol, uh, up on the block. Um, Danielle wins that first veto starting her journey of becoming the next big comp piece. She was famously a big fan of Janelle, uh, coming into the season, both her and, uh, her dad fans of the show coming in. Um, and so, uh, she wins this first veto, uh, does not use it.

[00:34:28] And that is the end for Carol really before she can even have a chance to start. Um, and a huge part of this really is, especially these first two evictions. It's just, we got to get rid of one of them, right? Yeah. And yeah, I don't have much to say about Carol. I feel like she didn't really try to be social with other people.

[00:34:58] Um, it kind of reminds me of Ashleya a little bit, um, who was also the first boot. Like it just felt very like, ho-hum. Yeah, I'm here. And it felt very like this person was cast because they had this partner who was the bigger personality. And it's probably why Jessica was the one who was upstairs and Dustin was the one who was up. I mean, to be fair, Joe also had a big personality regardless. Um, yeah, that's why.

[00:35:26] My favorite story about Carol journey, uh, is, uh, is, is one that I was a part of because we were doing a live show in New York many, many years ago. Yeah. Uh, which Eric Stein was attending. And he, I don't remember the cause of this, but he was just like, yeah, I think I could get Carol to cut, to stop by.

[00:35:51] Um, no, wouldn't that be fun to like, see like, Hey, Carol, what have you been up to in the years since big brother eight? Um, and so he gives her a call or a text or whatever. Um, she shows up and we, uh, usher her on stage and, uh, people start asking her questions. And she's like, yeah, just, just quickly. What's going on?

[00:36:20] Oh, she's so real. In her mind, Eric Stein just texted her to like, come hang out at a bar. And she. That's his problem. She was ushered on stage to be asked questions by big brother fans. She was like, who are these people? And where am I? She was probably like big brother. What's that? Exactly. And to me, that story is perfectly representative of her time on the show. Exactly. To be fair though, Taryn, I don't know if you've seen this, but sometimes I see like

[00:36:49] those like reality TV events that are happening and they have the posters and stuff on social media. She's on a lot of those posters. So I think she's kind of reintegrating herself back into the community. Good for her. Maybe, maybe we, uh, bit her with the bug, you know? Yeah. Oh my God. Carol, if you're listening, if you're watching, join us at one of our live shows this year. She was, she was also, she was great. Like, uh, no shade. No shade to her whatsoever. No.

[00:37:16] Very much shade to, I think, Eric Stein, who did not properly inform her of where she was going. She's so sweet for just being like, yeah, I'm down. Like, she was so down for it. Yeah. Um, so, uh, so that was Carol. Um, she's just, again, she's kind of just an easy, easy out here, uh, up on the block against Amber, who I think is very quickly going to make a name for herself as, uh, the, uh,

[00:37:40] the audience as the, especially the live feeders, feeders, uh, called her Whamber. Um, this was, uh, there were certainly nicknames and stuff. Obviously, if you think about, you know, the nerd herd and everything like that, like nicknames were a big part of the big brother fandom. For me, uh, this was the first time that, um, cause I, I dabbled in the feeds in, in six. I'd been in there, uh, on seven.

[00:38:06] Uh, big brother eight was the first time I think that I was really, um, seeing, and maybe because it was one of the first seasons where this was happening. The audience, especially the online community be in disarray. Uh, when I was there in season six, everyone was on the same page. Everyone hated the nerd herd. Everyone loved sovereign six, uh, on season seven, you know, everyone loved Janelle. Everyone loved Will. Like everyone is kind of still on the same page.

[00:38:32] There was some infighting for sure, but it was not to the level of big brother eight. Um, where on big brother eight, there were people who were mad at evil dick. There were people who didn't like Eric Stein. There were people that were rooting for evil dick. There were people that were just all over the place and there was so much, it felt so negative to me. Uh, it was actually very disheartening for me as a young, uh, this, I guess this is again, this was 2007. So I must've been 15 now.

[00:38:58] Um, and it really was genuinely for the first time an experience for me to be like, I don't know if I belong here. Oh, a little 15 year old. Like they're being mean to each other online. Yeah. It was really, and they had, they had like nicknames. Whamber was the most popular one, but they had ones for like, for everyone really. Um, and, uh, and so, um, you know, Amber up on the block against Carol known for her crying.

[00:39:28] That's why she was called Whamber. Um, and, uh, but it's Carol that's going to go out in this first week. And it looks like ostensibly that kale is kind of the powerhouse of the season. She's got this first initial Alliance. Um, she's trying to keep it on the down low. It's not really going to stay on the down low, especially as Nick starts to venture from it. Um, but, uh, but she's the first real power of the, of the season. Yeah.

[00:39:54] And also they're kind of just hanging out with each other a lot and they like, it's deeply obvious. Like if you're always hanging out with one another. Um, but I mean, like, I know how we feel about women that work with only men and like, I'm with that. I feel that, but I do feel like there is some kind of like, like, it's like not a bad strategy. If you feel like you're like, let me get these guys to like, do my stuff for me.

[00:40:24] I stand like, I stand like, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like that's good, but you have to play it in a certain way. Um, and that she did not, but to be fair again, like not most people, most people don't go up against somebody like evil Dick. So there's that. Yeah. Well, uh, it's none other than, uh, Jen who wins the week to HOH and, um, Oh, Oh, Jen,

[00:40:50] uh, Jen, of course, very famously kind of introduces herself to both her fellow house guests and the audience, uh, by crying at her, uh, memory wall photo. I'm sorry. That's me. Like, it's so me. I've never felt so seen in my life. Like I, if like, you know, me personally, like you get mad at me because you're like, wow, you hate every picture of yourself. Stop doing that. I'm just realizing, sorry. Is this the photo?

[00:41:19] I don't even, this might be the photo. No, it was not. I remember it wasn't. Yeah. It was like, yeah. The memory wall photos were different. I believe. I would hope that Wiki would do her justice. And not use a different photo. This is a gorgeous photo. Hello. Yeah. Like, um, I don't know. I just think that she, I'm a member of Jenza. Like I am a genius, if you will. Um, and I heard rumors in the rumor mill that with the upcoming big brother season of amazing

[00:41:49] race, that she might be partaking. And if that's true, I will be there. I will be sat. I will be sitting. I will connect the VPN. I will watch it live. I'm there. So just, just to make this, the rumor is that it's a big brother season with loved ones. So is the idea that it's going to be Jen Johnson with her unitard? Oh my God. You know, she's going to do it too.

[00:42:18] You know, she's going to do it. She, I feel like she like pokes fun at herself now. I don't know too much about what she's up to now, but I feel like she's got like that, that bubbly personality. So, um, the, the chat is freaking out, uh, for, for good. Listen, I don't know where this rumor came from. I haven't heard it, but, uh, so if you're mad about it, not happening, um, send all of your frustration to LaVena.

[00:42:43] I'm only reacting because after that news was broken about the amazing race, big brother season, Sharon Tharp posted a, um, front of the pod. Um, she posted a gift of Jen Johnson. And so everyone was sending it to me like, Oh, I think it's about that. So, Hey, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but someone correct me if I'm wrong. Tag me on Twitter, blue sky, whatever it is. Let me know. I know that's like the perfect, but I feel like she's so good for that too, because I

[00:43:13] was looking at her Instagram earlier today and she's very like health conscious. She's very into yoga and stuff like that. And like, I think that's a good person to compete on an amazing race. And she's got the personality for it. Like, I'm sorry. I don't want to see like all recent players. Like, let's see some deep holes and not the like obvious deep holes. Like we've seen Janelle, you know, love her. We love Brittany. Obviously she's currently on the traders. Like those kinds of characters that are the deep holes. Like, let's see like the real deep holes. Let's see Marvin from BB five.

[00:43:43] Like I would love that. Yeah. I was going to say like wild that a show like the amazing race would get Jen Johnson back before big brother did. But then I remembered how they treated Jen Johnson on season. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Yes. And I don't even think she would say yes if they had asked her for it. And she shouldn't. And she shouldn't. Like, we'll get into it. So Jen wins this HOH. Of course, she's already feuding with Evil Dick by this point.

[00:44:12] Because, I mean, do you even have to really explain? Like they just clashed instantly. They did not get along. And Evil Dick really hated Jen right from the get-go. Right from the crying at the photo. Yeah. If you don't listen, and I might sound like a hypocrite when I say this. I'm not saying that I, oh, he should have been like happy-go-lucky and like whatever. Like kumbaya. I don't love kumbaya famously.

[00:44:41] Like I want everyone to fight. I want everyone to have beef and stuff. But yeah, it's just weird watching him call her the B word all season. And like if you don't like someone, if you don't mesh with somebody, just don't talk to them. If you don't want to. I'm glad he did. It's a reality show. But I can't help but be like, dude, like if you don't like this person, don't talk to her.

[00:45:10] If you don't like this person. Like you're, you're like, it's like, he's like, um, trying to get a rise out of her when he knows that he can't. And that's why she was like, well, it's just not like you could tell that it's just not her personality to be like, I'm just going to fight. Like, I'm going to fight. You know, if it was me, she, she is braver than I am because I would have snapped back. I would have clapped back immediately because that kind of behavior from a grown man with like a daughter in the house is crazy. Crazy.

[00:45:40] But again, I'm not mad. I'm, I'm happy that it happened because we got to see Jen in all, all of her glory. Yeah. Well, uh, she just straight up puts, uh, Dick and Danielle on the block together. Um, and just like, you know, Jenza have at it. Uh, but of course, Danielle already again in her comp East era is going to win the veto. Um, and, uh, and take herself off.

[00:46:06] Uh, and that is going to allow, uh, Joe to be the replacement and then Joe to be voted out. Um, Joe was, uh, and, and I should, I should point out throughout this, of course, that, uh, these, um, you know, these vote outs are obviously being influenced by the audience as well. Um, the audience, uh, not a fan of Joe. Yeah.

[00:46:31] Middle America is not going to be a fan of this, especially right now at this time in 2007. Like, yeah, we're talking about gonorrhea and sleeping with other men and just general people are a little, a little bit. What am I saying? A lot more homophobic at the time. To this day, I believe the only gay, like gay couple on the show. At that time. Yes.

[00:46:56] Because the next one would be the following season, technically speaking with Neil and, uh, whoever that guy was, that was awful. Big Brother Nine is a black hole. We don't need it. We don't need it. Good luck. Good luck next week. But, um, so, uh, you know, definitely, uh, Joe was, was not, Joe was the kind of, again, cause this is, this is, again, it's, it's, um,

[00:47:24] uh, Joshua, Joshua, Neil. Thank you. Thank you. He was, um, this is, um, uh, between the two of them, uh, Joe was sort of like the more outspoken, uh, person. The audience was not a fan. Um, and like an international version of the show where like the louder and technically maybe more entertaining people are voted out very quickly.

[00:47:50] The problem they had in season one, uh, the audience just very quickly turned on Joe, despite the fact that Joe had a lot of probably potential for being very entertaining. Uh, they were a lot more, um, attracted to, uh, evil Dick and his story of, you know, trying to win back his estranged daughter. He had this abrasive personality, but also this softer, tender, more, uh, more tender side that was like, yeah, I know I'm loud and mean, but really I'm just trying to connect to my daughter.

[00:48:20] And really also it's part of my strategy to help my daughter. Um, which, uh, is a, is a, a narrative that, that still kind of exists to this day was certainly very prevalent at the time. This idea that like, oh yeah, his abrasiveness was all strategy. Um, it's, it's, I think about a hundred percent patently false. That's the case, but like, you know, uh, it was a compelling narrative at the time and a

[00:48:49] very, uh, appealing one because, um, you know, you, you wanted it to be true. Uh, so, um, you know, the audience was very, very much on, uh, on evil Dick side here and they wanted Joe out. Uh, of course that meant that, uh, that was the direction Eric was going to go as well. Um, and, uh, and the house. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, very simply put it what this point in 2007, what is middle America going

[00:49:16] to go for the heartwarming father daughter reconciliation story or gay infidelity? Like which one are they going to go for? And we all know the answer to that. So yeah, even though one's more entertaining than the other, if you really think about it. Yeah. To me. So that was the end of Joe. Um, I don't think we ever really got to the bottom of the gonorrhea situation.

[00:49:40] Um, I saw a clip of evil Dick and Dustin fighting later down the road. And he was basically like kind of on Joe's side. Well, because he like hated Dustin at this point. So like, he's going to say anything. Like, I don't know what it's true. If it's true, I don't, I'm not an expert, but he's like, well, the test would reveal, you know, something like, oh, you get that test. So like, um, he was telling the truth. I think it was something like that, but I mean, I take it with a grain of salt.

[00:50:08] We don't know these people's medical histories and should not. So Joe, that's on you for revealing that immediately. Um, so, uh, that's it for Joe who, who makes a lasting impact for a second boot, but, uh, is not going to make too much of a lasting impact on the game. Uh, evil Dick is going to win the third HOH and is going to shoot straight at, um, well,

[00:50:36] first Jen, uh, of course, because he hates Jen, but, uh, having missed Jen, he takes the shot of Jen puts Jen on the block next to kale. Uh, but misses her because Jen wins that veto. And that means that he has to name a replacement. Uh, he ends up naming, uh, Mike, Mike Dutz as the replacement nominee who sits next to kale and eventually is voted out.

[00:51:03] One of the worst players ever to me, just based on that whole veto competition situation. What the hell are you thinking? What are you thinking? Just for context, like they were doing the veto competition and kale and Mike are like plotting at this point to like distract evil Dick. And at this point, they're not like sequestering. I don't know if that's the right word, but like isolating them to the backyard. They are allowed to go back inside.

[00:51:30] They go back inside as the competition still going down. They're like, let's distract him. And Mike is like trying to piss evil Dick off to make him drop from the competition. And evil Dick is like, you are gonna go up point blank period. You're going to go up. And he's just like, I don't care, man. Do it, do it, do it. And lo and behold, he does do it. So like, why? Like you're, you're so dumb. I'm sorry. I can't.

[00:51:59] I think honestly, uh, and this is, I'm just pulling this out of nowhere. Uh, so, you know, uh, if, if Mike Dutz disagrees, uh, I would not be surprised, but I have to imagine part of it came from the entire like concept of this alliance in the first place, right. Of like the three strapping lads who are like there to, uh, to like help out their, uh, Mrs. Robinson in kale who won the first HOH and pulled them, pulled them in. Right.

[00:52:28] Like this idea of like, well, I, I've got to like, look out for kale here. Um, and, uh, and put myself on the line to do so. Um, and then, you know, this isn't, you know, that's not how it works. Crazy to me that to me, like it could have been a little bit of that. Definitely. But it also just read as like ego cockiness over confidence. Like that's how it read. I mean, what I was saying was the nice way of saying that. I think. Okay. Okay.

[00:52:59] Same page. We are totally aligned. Yeah. Like I was just like, come on, man. Really? Really? Oh, I can't, I can't. It pisses me off. Yeah. Um, so, uh, so that's, that's it. Of course. Um, this is one of the very few weeks where Eric does not, uh, get his, uh, get his way with the vote. Um, the audience would prefer, uh, kale out.

[00:53:27] Um, she is, I think just like a bigger character at this point and more of a rival to, uh, to evil Dick. Um, and, uh, but, uh, but you know, the, the, the, the house wanted Mike because he was just, uh, the better person to take out at that point. He was theoretically more of a competition threat though. So at this point in time, um, there wasn't really reason to believe that, especially in

[00:53:54] you do have Danielle as sort of like the biggest comp winner of this season, but it is the start of competitions becoming more, uh, condensed and consolidated in terms of the kinds of people that win them. Um, you know, this benefits Danielle. And certainly that, that happened in the previous season as well with, with Janelle, but, um, it does feel a little more coincidental in that season than it does in this season where Danielle has a certain set of skills like Liam. Yes.

[00:54:21] And those skills allow her to just really dominate a lot of these competitions, um, which is compelling at the time. And maybe, maybe, you know, if, if I thought they were capable of doing this intentionally, I would say that there's a theory that you could say that it was intentional because people love Janelle and they were like, we want to create another superstar like Jen, like Janelle. Let's make competitions more winnable. So Janelle's happened more often.

[00:54:45] Um, but I think the reality is they were just going for bigger and, you know, more entertaining sets, quite frankly. Um, and, and, and to be fair, the sets for the competitions for big brother eight were really fun. The theming of the season was like Alice in Wonderland and they had some really fun, cool things that they did. Um, and so, uh, but my point is that, you know, players like Mike Dutz, you know, especially nowadays you would say, yeah, obviously you, he's going to be a bigger challenge threat.

[00:55:14] Um, in, in the days of big brother eight, uh, it was not quite there, even though it was really the start of the road to get there. Yeah. I think it was, I think, yeah, I think that was the thought that they had. It was like, well, look at this big dude. I mean, he was like, he had like a six pack. Like he had like washboard apps. Like I would say like, if we can, let's get rid of him. And also he was being an asshole. Like, I don't know. Like, I'm not a big fan of, um, evil dick and, and whatever, but like you showed your

[00:55:42] butt, you showed your ass on live TV. Mike duds. If you ask me, dud, dud. Well, uh, the following round, Dustin is going to win the HOH. Dustin, uh, the, uh, other half of the rivals pair, um, from Joe, uh, wins this HOH and he is going to put Jen and kale on the block. Now at this point, they are theoretically working with Dick and Danielle.

[00:56:12] Um, and so, uh, there's this idea of yes, kale is still a threat. She was working with it because another reason why it was new, kale and Mike at the end of that week, you know, people knew about the Alliance by this point. Kale had been defanged. The Alliance had been, uh, torn apart. Nick was now, uh, you know, getting into a little bit of a showmance with Danielle, um, and pulling away from that group. So it's just like, it's just, uh, kale and Zach who has been kind of shown to be a bit of a loner, um, otherwise.

[00:56:43] Um, and so not that much of a threat, but really like the people that it's easy to go after because, you know, Hey, we're all in a kind of a big group and let's go after the people that used to be in power. Um, and so, and then there's Jen who has now won two competitions and is also a big target. So you put Jen up, you put kale up and, uh, and you know, it, it feels pretty decent. However, this is, this is a week that Eric really wants something else.

[00:57:12] Um, and what he wants is for Nick to go. Uh, he really wants Nick gone. And, um, and I don't think the producers liked this and I don't think the audience liked this. And I certainly don't think Dick and Danielle liked this. Uh, but he really wanted this to happen. He felt like Nick was a huge threat to his game. Um, and, uh, and so he tried to put pieces in, in place so that Nick would leave even though

[00:57:39] he wasn't supposed to be allowed to, and he wasn't even going to be allowed to vote for Nick to leave. So he had to orchestrate a scenario where he was on the bottom. He was on the outside of a majority vote, uh, to send Nick out for the second week in a row. He would have to be on the outside of a majority vote, which ultimately would really come back to bite him because it starts this whole, uh, hinky vote, uh, paranoia, uh, which then immediately gets outed by a banner plane.

[00:58:07] Um, so like lots of stuff going on here this week. I like for exactly so much happened. Like this was like at the point where everything just kind of went crazy after that. I mean, it was crazy from the start, but you know what I mean? Like everything kind of went turmoil, um, that I forgot about the banner plane. Like I literally forgot about that. That's insane. Um, yeah, I mean, like, I think maybe the only person that did want Nick to leave at this point would be Danielle's boyfriend back home.

[00:58:35] Um, who we will hear from later, later on. Um, I miss when they were so messy like this, like be messy, big brother. Come on, you guys like CBS. Are you hearing me? Um, yeah. Um, I think this is the week that things just kind of, and I feel like, um, my brain's moving a million. I mean, miles an hour. I feel like when you have an alliance that's like outward, right? Like, which is like the Mrs. It was Mrs. Robinson Alliance, right? Like that one.

[00:59:05] If you see that there, even if it looks weakened by this point, you just take them out. It's an excuse to just like take them out. And I feel like that's kind of just what was happening this week. So like in terms of strategy, like it was a whatever week for me, but like, this is the marking point of the chaos. And Nick was, was a very good target for a lot of the, the, the house at this point. He had been in on the KL Alliance and now he was getting cozy with Danielle and Dick.

[00:59:33] Um, Danielle already a known comp threat, uh, Nick, a potential comp threat. Um, and clearly somebody that has the ability to pivot from one group of people to another. A showmance is always threatening to begin with a showmance plus, uh, a father daughter is basically an unbaked, unbreakable trio. Um, you know, luckily for them to this point, Dick was not the biggest fan of Nick. And so like, it didn't seem too bad, but over time they were getting closer and closer.

[01:00:03] And by the time Nick left, Dick was like, how dare they take out Nick? Yeah. Um, so it, it really was the best shot here. Um, now I find it interesting how like the edit portrayed this push to take out Nick. They, again, I think this is probably the week they were the least happy with the results. They really wanted their showmance. They really didn't want Eric to be able to go against what the audience wanted.

[01:00:24] And, uh, this is also, um, basically the last time that, uh, yeah, it's the last time Eric does anything that, uh, goes against what the audience wants. Every single, uh, thing from this point forward, basically what the audience wants, the audience gets. Um, and we know that, uh, he was, he was pretty much, you know, given a talking to, uh, like, uh, you have to try, you know, we can watch you, right?

[01:00:54] You know, we can hear you. Uh, we're not gonna, we're not gonna let you do this. You can't just get a directive and choose not to do it. They presented it that way. Like, oh, you can choose to do it for money. Uh, but the reality is he did not have a choice in the matter. And, uh, this week I think was really the final week. He had any amount of leeway on that, uh, before they really cracked down hard on him. Yeah. And, and I think the week that he could have, or he should have been like, I'm not going to do this is, I think it was week six.

[01:01:23] We'll get to it. But that week where Dustin gets blindsided. Um, I feel like if there's any big brother house guests that truthfully, truly experienced the 1984 big brother realness, basically it is Eric Stein. They're like, we're watching you by the way, you have to do what we say. That's crazy. I'd go, I, I'd cry. Yeah. Honestly.

[01:01:50] Uh, so it is, um, nearly unanimous for, uh, for Nick to leave just Eric and Zach are going to be, uh, voting for kale to go out. Um, but, uh, with Nick gone. And of course this is because Jamaica won the veto and, uh, and used it, uh, on Jen, uh, which, you know, people were not pleased with.

[01:02:13] Um, but, uh, Eric, I think very, very sort of like successfully pulls off this whole move against Nick. And, and the thing about it was that Dick and Danielle didn't even really know he was behind it. Like they didn't understand how involved he was in making this happen. And he maintained his relationship with them, um, to the point where like they were, uh, mad at like other people.

[01:02:44] Um, however, they go out to this HOH competition. It's a, and it's an endurance competition and they're hanging there. Uh, they're just, they're just outside. And here come, here come the banner planes, uh, exposing Eric for being the hinky vote. Don't trust him. He's a rat. Um, that was, uh, a big, big thing on the, uh, on online was calling Eric a rat.

[01:03:12] Um, they weren't happy with this move. They wanted their showments. And this is really like the, the peak of unpopularity for, for Eric Stein, because it was the only time he was able to go against evil Dick. From this point forward, the audience is still not fond of Eric, but they turn around on him because he's doing things to help. See, and when you put it that way, Taryn, like, I know all of this happened. I was there like, well, not literally, but I would, I've seen this season multiple times.

[01:03:37] Like I, I, I saw it happen, but when you put it in this way, it pisses me off bad because it's like, okay, what? I don't know. It's just, that's when I'm like, okay, maybe rigged. Maybe, maybe that pisses me off bad because it's like, he can't do anything. Like he was doing your bidding a week before and he's going to go back to doing it a week now. It's like, you're mad at him. He can't let the man breathe. Oh my God. Truly 1984. I'm sorry, Eric.

[01:04:07] And so Danielle wins this HOH. Um, and, uh, and, and maybe just to wrap up on Nick here, uh, I think just a sort of more successful version of, you know, uh, like Mike Dutz. Like he just, he was definitely a lot more head in the game. Um, he, but he, he very much was like, got in on the, you know, uh, into this like relationship with Danielle. Um, and, uh, ultimately it would just presented as too threatening.

[01:04:35] Didn't really work well enough, uh, at like trying to maintain relationships in the house. Nick is the kind of player who in season two or three would have been like the big threat for the game player to take out by season eight. Eric has such a wealth of knowledge that he's just not going to let him get that far. Um, and, and, and, and like, and, and Eric is like the power in the house before Nick can even really get there.

[01:05:04] Um, and so, uh, he kind of unceremoniously, uh, removed from the game at this point, uh, heading into the following week where Danielle wins that HOH. And she is going to, uh, basically do the same thing that, uh, Dustin had done the week before. Jen and Kale on the block, except this time having been warned by the banner plane, her and evil Dick put their heads together and they realize, oh my God, Eric has been playing us this whole time.

[01:05:35] Eric was behind the Nick eviction. Uh, he wanted Nick out so that he could be closer to us so that we wouldn't have Nick. Uh, like all of these things are starting to make sense. The, the, the, the banner planes are calling him a liar. We've had these hinky votes. He's, he clearly is behind those. I don't know what that's up, uh, what that's all about, but like he is the threat of the game. We must take him out. Not only must we take him out, we have to backdoor him.

[01:06:02] We can't let him have any chance to stay in this game. And so, uh, for the first time and one of the very few times in big brother history, they backdoor Eric Stein, uh, Jen wins the veto, takes herself off the block. Eric goes up in her place as the intended backdoor target. This is a death sentence. It has been to this point in big brother history.

[01:06:30] It will continue to be for most players in this spot in big brother history. Uh, for Eric Stein, it was not. He manages to rally votes around him having to, despite having been exposed as a liar, um, and pulls in the, uh, the basically everyone else in the house, uh, as, as sort of like, um, a let's go against evil Dick and Danielle.

[01:06:57] Uh, he pulls in Dustin, he pulls in Amber, uh, and Jessica. They're starting to have this sort of budding romance. Um, I think roughly around this time. Um, and, uh, and evil's in Jamaica and it becomes them against Dick, Danielle, and Zach's just kind of hanging out there as well. He's just like me. Zach is going to eventually end up with Dick and Danielle really for lack of better options.

[01:07:25] Uh, he's, he's, he's largely ignored for much of the game. Yeah. He says it himself towards the end. He says something like, I was just playing chess with myself all these weeks. Like no one wanted to hang out with me. I felt so sad when he said that. That's why I was like, I'm charmed. I'm charmed by Zach. That's my winner. Um, but yeah, I, um, it's very funny how, like when the vote does not go their way and they're kind of like essentially blindsided at the Carol eviction.

[01:07:53] It's so funny how like they are just gobsmacked. Like, why did this not go our way? How could this not have gone our way? It's just so like, everything's gone our way in, in this previous, in these previous weeks. Like, how could you turn on us? Kind of a thing. It's like, I don't know. It's turning me off when I talk about it out loud. Cause I feel like I don't talk. I don't, I don't, I don't think I've like ever talked about big brother eight out loud, Darren. And I'm getting mad. Here we are.

[01:08:24] Um, so yes, in, in a, in a strange twist of fate, Kale, the OG threat of the season is taken out kind of on accident, uh, by her original rivals, Dick and Danielle. Um, and it's just because she was up against Eric, uh, and against most other people, she probably ends up staying here because she wasn't really the intended target at this point.

[01:08:48] Um, but, uh, but here she goes at so defanged having lost Nick and Mike. Um, and you know, Zach basically doing his own thing by this point, um, wasn't really much of a threat to anybody, but still taken out really just to protect Eric from being evicted. Dick and Danielle are pissed. This is a game ending mistake for them. Uh, especially because Jessica then wins the next HOH.

[01:09:16] And like Jen before her immediately just nominates Danielle and Dick for eviction. One of them is guaranteed to go home on any other season. Should have been it. This should have been it. Like it, it, yeah, it's crazy. Any other season. Instead, somehow, Dustin goes home.

[01:09:46] He gives us the best reaction ever though. One of my top five blindside reactions. Three. Honestly. Crazy. This is a moment too. Like, so I, as a child, as a 15 year old child, uh, I don't know if child fits 15 anymore. As a kid, uh, at 15, um, I was not rooting for evil Dick. Um, I was definitely more of like an Eric guy.

[01:10:15] Um, but really like in general, I think that, uh, like I said, like the season as a whole kind of soured me. Um, and so I wasn't like super invested one way or the other. And I think that probably, um, uh, reveals itself with the result of this week where even though I wasn't rooting for evil Dick, I did applaud the Dustin blindside. I thought it was so compelling. I was just like this guy, this guy volunteers for the block.

[01:10:45] He's so confident. He's the arrogance. Do you see how he's walking around with the bathrobe and the crown talking about how he wants to be the, there to flush evil Dick, uh, you know, down the drain essentially like this guy, I can't wait for him to get his comeuppance. And then the reaction when the vote comes in and it's Dustin evicted instead of evil Dick. So precursor to Danielle Murphy.

[01:11:12] Uh, it's, it's, it's, it's beautiful. Uh, and I was, I was all for it at the time. I thought it was fantastic television. Yeah. It doesn't matter. You're rooting interest at that point. Like I tend to watch my brother without a rooting interest in general, but, um, in terms of like the rooting, I think I would say I'm the only thing I root, I have a rooting interest for is against productions, productions hand, I suppose. And of course this is the perfect season for that. But like, if I'm Dustin, okay.

[01:11:42] In that position, I would also be walking around like with a crown on my head too. Like I would be egotistical, egomaniac. Like honestly, because at that point, how is he supposed to know? You know, it's set in stone. It should be like you said, any other season it is set in stone. One of you is leaving. It should be evil dick. And, and this guy's been walking around calling me princess, like kind of like making comments that can be taken like, you know, negatively.

[01:12:09] And again, like I, you know, I don't know what was said that wasn't shown on the live feeds. I was not, I was not watching at the time and I did not go back and do that research, but I'm sure it was not pretty, you know? So if I'm done in Dustin's shoes, I'm, I'm dancing on the grave. I'm Tamar Braxton. Like I'm dancing on the grave, so I don't blame him at all. But yeah, I agree with you. Like the, the reaction is worth it. Like I'm not, I'm not mad about it. Yeah.

[01:12:37] And you know, ultimately you look back and this is really like probably the biggest, the biggest week, uh, for, uh, for the outcome of the season. Um, of course, just without a doubt, without a shadow of a doubt, if Eric is not forced to go in this direction, evil Dick is voted out here. Um, and, and that is, that is the end of that story, right?

[01:13:04] Like it's just, it's just the way it is. Um, but, uh, but the audience comes in clutch for evil Dick. Uh, Eric makes sure the numbers are there and, uh, blind sides, Dustin. Um, of course this is also like the week that the audience is the most in favor of Dick more than ever, ever before, because he wins this veto and uses it on his daughter. And this is where like the being abrasive as a strategy thing came into because initially

[01:13:33] when it was him and his daughter up on the block, he's like banging pots and pans to be like, Oh, cause this is what people don't remember. The entire real concept of using the abrasiveness as a strategy was to get himself voted out over his daughter, like not for him to win the game. Um, so in that regard, sure. He used it as a strategy to make people more mad at him, uh, so that they would vote him out over his daughter, uh, then goes on to use the veto on his daughter.

[01:14:01] Um, and, uh, and again, in, in most scenarios that ends with him going home. Uh, but, uh, but not, not in this scenario instead it's Dustin. Yep. And yeah, again, if it's any other season, it's going to work out. And it kind of makes me think my computer keeps going on standby. I'm sorry. Um, I, I feel like, like I, I kind of think about it and I'm like, what does happen to the season moving forward?

[01:14:31] If he does go home at this point, if evil Dick does go home, what happens to Danielle? Is she just, is she going to go on and win the next HOH as she does do? Like, is that going to happen? Does she integrate herself back in the house? Like what happens? It's very interesting, but yeah, again, um, I can sit here and completely, complain about it all I want, but, um, I'm not going to because we caught the blind side. I love a blind side. Uh, well that's it for Dustin.

[01:15:00] And then we're going to, we're going to lose Jen, uh, after Danielle finally, uh, wins, uh, again, another HOH and veto. Um, and, uh, is finally able to take Jen out. Um, and, and really a spot that like, it didn't even really make sense to take Jen out here because, uh, you know, Eric and his crew were still. Like too strong and powerful to do that. Jen was not really part of that crew.

[01:15:26] Uh, but because Eric saved evil Dick, he was able to, you know, against his will, he was able to sort of leverage that into, Hey, we're working together again. And that spells, uh, bad things for Jen who had kind of had a temporary, uh, truce, sort of like, uh, temporary, like halting of, uh, the conflicts between her and evil Dick because they didn't have anybody else at that time. And she was not working with the Eric group.

[01:15:50] Uh, but, uh, but then, uh, you know, really, uh, ends up paying the price for it here on this week, uh, when Danielle has all the power. Yep. And this is the week, unfortunately, where we see the iconic fights of this season when people think evil Dick and just BBA in general, they think of the cigarette hiding. They think of the cigarette burning on Jen and her saying, you're burning me on purpose.

[01:16:16] You know, the tea spilling on the head, just the, the chaotic way of her and also her, my line at the beginning of the podcast, her taking the meal penalty when she was not supposed to be eating a meal. She had a Turkey feels like a Turkey sandwich or something. And she got the penalty vote and went out unanimously. And you know, her exit line, her speech of saying it was something I wanted to try and coming to this game.

[01:16:43] And I'm just, just as excited to leave. And Eric kind of hitting her back on the way out of, out the door saying, we're just as excited to see you leave as well. Um, and her saying that's perfect. Like that is television. Oh my God. Amazing race, please. Like generally you need to bring her back CBS. I don't care what it's for. Genuinely. Jen, you, and Lee. I'm a member of Jen's. I said it. You heard it here first.

[01:17:10] Um, yeah, I think she is perfect casting. Um, and yeah, the, the way she was treated was unfairly. And I don't, again, I don't know what was happening behind the scenes, but production clearly wasn't taking care of her in the way that they should have been. I don't think the behavior would fly the burning that's not happening today. That's not going to fly today. And it shouldn't, it should never have, you know, been okay. Mm-hmm.

[01:17:37] Uh, so yes, that is it for Jen and I, and I classic, classic, uh, big brother character. Um, shame. We have never seen her, uh, back on our televisions again, but, uh, I don't know. I guess maybe, maybe soon. So we'll see. Manifest. Yeah. Manifest. Uh, Jen also the first person, as I mentioned before, to get the, uh, the unitard punishment.

[01:17:59] Um, and, uh, really, I think the reason it persists, uh, probably does not stay on a regular big brother thing. If not for Jen Johnson, uh, like, uh, taking it and making it around serving that clip of her serving in the outfit and like loving it and wanting it. And then behind her is Jamaica, like praying. If you haven't seen my clip, please look it up on Google somehow. Like it's perfect.

[01:18:27] Uh, speaking of Jamaica, um, she at this point has, I believe, given up the, uh, ability to play in the, in basically like most of the HOHs left in the season. Um, in a very ill thought out, I think, uh, like twist for a competition. Um, that she gave in, in trying to, I think win, um, it was either a veto or an HOH now. I don't remember.

[01:18:55] Um, she, she gave up willingly, uh, like a certain amount of HOH, uh, competitions. Um, and that basically just like neutralizes her for the game. She can't win anything. And so now nobody even really like bothers to like strategize with her in any meaningful way because she can't win. Uh, she just has a vote.

[01:19:24] Um, and, and really like the, the winning matters more. Um, and she's also not worth taking out of the game. Uh, it really like both in the game and I think in the edit, like she just kind of disappears. Um, because she's, she's just kind of like on the sidelines. Um, which was, I thought a very, very poorly thought out, uh, idea. Um, and I'm glad that they haven't really brought something like that back. Yeah.

[01:19:51] The only times that she was present was when she, and it kind of died down by this point too, like the fighting with Dick and Danielle and her kind of like, I would call it like a little bit lecturing E of, um, of Danielle. Like, well, you could have talked to us more. You say, cause Danielle's big thing that the season was like, don't blame me for my dad's actions. But then people like Jamaica would kind of fire back and say like, you haven't made an effort with us. Like, um, I think at one point she was like, Oh, what is like name three facts about all of us.

[01:20:21] You can't because you don't, you don't talk to us. So that was really kind of like the, the dying of her storyline, I would say at that point. And by this point it was done. Yeah. I mean, it was very much cause like there was this thing where it was like, Danielle didn't want to be socially outcast in the same way that evil Dick was for his behavior, uh, to which the response was like, but you are siding with it. Like you're on his side. Like you can't have your cake and eat it too. Right.

[01:20:48] Um, and it was this weird situation where like, you know, she was, she was in this spot where like, yeah, you, you either have to like endorse his behavior by working with him or not working with him, which is actually not that great for your game in the first place. Uh, and like reject it. Like it was kind of a tricky spot I think for, uh, for her, but you can also, you know, you're also not going to like, it's kind of like the situation, the game put them in and you're not going to like invite Danielle into your strategy conversations knowing that she's working with her dad.

[01:21:18] So, um, so that's it for Jen. Uh, Jessica wins the next HOH and this is going to be it for Amber. Um, Jessica nominates Amber and Zach. Eric wins. This veto is not able to use it. Um, just not allowed period to use it despite having love would have loved to, right?

[01:21:43] Um, because who needs to take out Amber now, now Eric and Amber have a bit of a rocky relationship, uh, by this point. Um, Oh my God. Yeah. Lots of controversy going on there as well. Um, but, uh, but, but ultimately, um, just like, this is why Eric was like throwing a lot of competitions. He wasn't in control of his nominations, wasn't in control of what he could do with the veto.

[01:22:08] Um, and in this particular instance, just like wasn't allowed to use it, which keeps Amber, uh, and Zach on the block and ultimately, uh, Amber evicted. Um, because that's what the audience wanted. The audience had been, had been wanting Amber gone for, for a while. Uh, and so, um, you know, that's just, just again, hands tied behind his back. His like literally his showmance winning HOH, him winning a veto.

[01:22:36] Couldn't take out, couldn't even nominate the person he wanted. He wasn't playing big brother. Like, I know we've harped on this and it's historically harped on, but like, again, going through it week by week out loud with you right now, it's just like, Oh my God, like this is crazy. Um, but yeah, like, I feel like, um, like Amber, like America, I mean, yeah, America's not going to like this care character. They're not going to like this character, but I just find it very interesting how they're

[01:23:05] just like, no, like this woman showing too much emotion is like too whatever, but like evil Dick. They're like, yes. Like this is perfect. But I, again, I get the storyline and how he was set up and edited, but interesting. I'm like, okay, that's emotional. And then that's okay. And, and like, I think again, like the thing that you have to realize about the America's player twist is that you often think about like, okay, he's not allowed to use the veto or he's not allowed to vote for who he wants.

[01:23:34] Um, but it's not just that it's also campaigning, right? And you see a little bit, he's not allowed to campaign for what he wants. He's, he's cast a campaign for the thing that America wants him to. Um, so like there's that too, right? Like that's, that makes it so much worse, but it also goes beyond that with America constantly telling him to do what evil Dick wants him to do and to work with evil Dick. It's not like he can go around saying anything bad. Like he has to just work with evil Dick.

[01:24:03] Otherwise he'd be in constant turmoil of like telling his allies, yeah, let's work with evil Dick. And then the second they win power, be like, okay, now nominate evil Dick. Yeah. I've changed my mind. Nominate, don't nominate evil Dick. Uh, and it's like, he just has to try to work with them until he can find a moment to just like pull the trigger. And he just was never allowed to. No, there wasn't an option for that there. And they were never going to give him that option. Cause the only time he had that wig was at week three, week four, whatever it was like

[01:24:32] that wiggle room, like clearly like production was like, Hey, you can't do that. So there was never going to be another time. Right. And so ultimately like the only thing to do is to just make an actual alliance with them, which he does with, with, uh, with Jessica. Um, and then again, in a spot where he would have loved to have turned on them and taken out evil Dick or Danielle. Um, he, he just, just isn't really able to.

[01:24:58] Uh, and so, uh, it's, it's again, just one of those weird, weird little moments, uh, on the show, but it ends with Amber's eviction. Amber, uh, immensely unpopular, um, this season. And I think probably one of the least popular people of the season, not only from the people that found her like annoying, but also the various controversies that she was a part of. Um, there was a lot going on with like her exit interviews. Uh, you know, people were really wanted to like grill her on some of the comments she

[01:25:27] made. And, uh, big brother was like, Nope, not gonna allow you to do that. She's part of the jury. Uh, so there was a lot going on here, but ultimately, uh, the end, the end of Amber in week game. Very strange how the whole storyline of like the, the Eric, her confiding in Eric about what she did with her ex-boyfriend or whatever it was like, um, how she's just like, oh my God, I told you that in confidence. It's like, girl, there's no confidence though.

[01:25:55] They're all going to find out eventually you're on camera. Like I get what she means like in the game, like aspect of it, but like everyone in America knows now. So it was very confusing. I don't, I don't understand, but anyways. So from this point forward, um, it's, it's pretty straightforward. It's really just like, it's coming down to comp wins.

[01:26:19] Um, Zach wins the next day to H Danielle wins the veto, uh, Jamaica and Jessica go up on the block. But again, Jamaica can't even really properly compete in most of these competitions. I think she will be able to compete soon by this point, but, uh, but she hasn't been competing for so long. She's been such a non-entity in the strategy. Plus Jessica is linked to Eric. Um, and so now Zach is the perfect HOH to betray, uh, for Dick and Danielle to betray this alliance because blood's not really on their hands.

[01:26:48] And even though they've been working with Eric and, uh, Jessica, they haven't forgotten the fact that he was behind Nick's eviction. They were just working with him because they felt like they needed to, because of course they did. Um, and so, uh, Jessica takes the hit first and then, uh, Dick wins the next HOH. Zach wins the veto. Uh, Erica and, uh, Jamaica or sorry, Eric and Jamaica on the block together. Eric goes home right after, uh, and just like that, we are down to the final four of Zach

[01:27:17] Dick and, uh, Dan, Zach, Dick, Danielle and Jamaica, uh, and in a very, very strong position for the two of the better competitors in the house, Dick and Danielle to, uh, to ultimately win this game. Yep. And just for a quick comment on Jessica, we've talked about Eric. Like I want to give Jessica her shine a little bit. Like she, I was so upset when she wasn't the one to come into the game for big brother 11, like huge fan of hers. I think she was a great character.

[01:27:46] I think strategically decent. Like I wouldn't say like, she's like a strategic mastermind or anything. I thought I liked her and Eric together. Like I was rooting for them when I was watching it. Um, even though of course Eric had, you know, was limited and stuff in his game, but I love Jessica. I think she was a great character and just want to give her her shine. Cause I feel like I didn't talk about her enough. I was just too busy in, you know, in Jenza, in Jenza world. So Jessica, Jessica world too. Love her.

[01:28:11] I mean, truly sort of like a character that I think the audience really did come around on for the most part. Um, I think that like people really did like the showmance, um, in general, obviously they weren't like universally adored by any means, but, uh, people liked the Jessica Eric showmance. It felt like one of those like opposites attract kind of things. Jessica was this like very, uh, pretty sort of like popular girl.

[01:28:39] And Eric was like the nerdy super fan. Um, the first of that kind of archetype also, I guess the nerdy super fan really like has a history of, uh, getting into showmances, I guess. Um, but, uh, you know, you had that going on again. People's first impression of her was like that she was in a feud with, uh, Carol for $5. And so, uh, it wasn't a great first impression, but I think by the end of the season, people came away with a pretty positive, uh, perception of her.

[01:29:08] She was, I think probably the most popular person on her side of the house, uh, on the other side of the evil Dick Danielle side of the house. Cause Eric was just a bit polarizing. Um, and I think ultimately that's one of the reasons why she's invited back for big brother 11, uh, didn't make it on, uh, wasn't really set up to make it on, but, uh, you know, had a shot, right. Um, so, uh, you know, and, and really, you know, did, did a lot better in the game than

[01:29:34] I think people do give her credit for, especially given the fact that her closest ally and showmance was constantly leading her astray against his own will. I loved her reaction at finale when they revealed it. It's just like a zoom in on her and she's just like, Eric, what the heck? Like, I loved it. It was perfect. Mm-hmm. Um, so, uh, so that was Jessica. We've talked plenty about Eric, uh, at this point.

[01:30:03] Um, next out was Jamaica. Jamaica just kind of, uh, at the, at the final four, um, just taken out cause Zach wins the HOH and, uh, and Danielle wins that veto. She's not going to evict her own father at this point. Uh, so Jamaica leaves, um, rough spot for Jamaica who probably otherwise would have made it to the final three. Um, but, uh, you know, it, it just, it, it was a rough go for Jamaica that season, um,

[01:30:31] between, you know, what happened with not being able to compete, but also. Uh, you know, she has some segments about, uh, representation then and how difficult things were for her in the game. Um, and this was a time before that was really a conversation that was in the mainstream like it is nowadays. Uh, and so, you know, it was, it was a really like, I think tough spot overall all around for Jamaica. Yeah. Yeah. She had like zero control over it towards the end of the game for like literally.

[01:31:01] And also of course in the final four that there's no option for her. Like you're getting voted out as soon as Danielle wins that veto, I believe. Yeah. The veto and they're screaming, they're having fun. Like we're going to the final two, like we're in the final three. Like she's just like, okay, I'm going home. Like it's, it was definitely a rough end game for her. Yeah. And you're right. Full game, honestly. Like a lot of the segments that she has, she's just like fighting for her life.

[01:31:28] Like she's just like, don't, you know, use my religion. Like they're like kind of like coming for, coming for her for that. They're like, you're a bad Christian and all this stuff. Like it was just kind of like wild stuff. Um, so she, she really went through it in that house. I think she seems like a really nice lady. Um, I hope she's doing well. I really do. Um, then it's Zach versus the Donatos at the final three.

[01:31:54] A lot of people, especially at the time gave him a lot of, uh, crab for working with Dick and Danielle. Um, because you know, Eric was forced to Zach was not forced to by America. Why would you willingly go to the end with a father daughter duo? Um, I think that there was like a resurgence of Zach support that I feel like I saw, um, maybe like five fish years ago where it was like, Hey, you know what?

[01:32:23] Zach was not actually like for the spot he was in and the social skills that he had, you know, attaching himself to Dick and Danielle, where it was not the worst move in the world. All he needs to do is win that final three HOH and he wins the game. Uh, like he just needs to get there because the jury does not want to vote for Dick or Danielle. Um, and I think that's a fair argument.

[01:32:47] Um, I don't know that he was like always thinking long-term like that, but like, uh, uh, you know, he is actually pretty close, uh, to, uh, to, to a potential win of big brother eight. Despite everything. And he was talking big game too. He was like, you're going to see like, I'm going to win this. Like him and Dick are like going back and forth. Like he's like, we'll see tomorrow. Like I will be like winning this competition, whatever.

[01:33:16] Like in that competition at the end, I think, was it final? Was it the first part of the final or of the, yeah, the final HOH where they're holding the key up? Um, yeah. They had to like jump, right? Like it was, they had to hop over the thing. Was, were they, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. They were hopping in like the rain was pouring. They were little bunnies. Yeah. Something like that. It was that part. Like I was like, oh my God, the story, that's like going back to like the storyline we were talking about.

[01:33:42] That's when I was like, okay, the storyline is storylining because when he just is like, he's like, I'm not letting go. I'm not letting Dick is like, I'm not letting go. And then Zach is just like, Hey man, I respect you. I respect you. And that gives him a hug and stuff. That's really interesting to me. Um, but ultimately Zach, I like for me personally, like he is my winner. Like he's my winner of big brother eight. Like, I think he played a good game.

[01:34:08] I think he would have won if not for the, you know, production manipulation, the Eric sign of it all, you know, the everything of it all with this season. Like, I think he played, he laid low when he should have, like, he calls it like, oh, I was isolating. I was isolating, but like, I don't know. He was like, just kind of not, not a non entity, but he was laying low in a, in a good way. Like it wasn't like a, he's doing nothing. He's coasting by.

[01:34:37] I think he was laying low when he should have been. And then, yeah, it just didn't work out for him. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. And I mean, ultimately comes down to a part three where at this point in time, it's basically a guessing game. It's basically random, uh, part three, the final three HOH, uh, it's the jury jury statements and the jury statements largely historically seen as a crapshoot competition.

[01:35:04] Um, it's this juror said so on, so, so on and so forth. Uh, and then it ended with what, uh, is it a or B? Um, and like very rarely was it actually a matter of like, do you know the person well, or like, what would they actually say? Because they would intentionally choose things that were either misleading or things that like, you know, I, I'd actually be very curious, uh, if somebody were to do a sort of like analysis

[01:35:31] of, um, is there any correlation to a player getting a question right, uh, in that specific competition, uh, to how close they were with that person in the game? Like how much do they knew the person in the game? Uh, because I would assume that there's very little correlation there. Maybe a small, small one, but probably insignificant would be my guess. Um, yeah, ultimately very random and Zach loses it. I was going to say that.

[01:36:00] I was going to say it is fully random because I do remember like certain things like, um, BB 19 when they had the scale still, the scales thing still going. Like they, I think it was like Josh or someone, I forgot who it was, but it was like a question for, um, I think it, maybe it was like Raven's question and it was Paul and, and Paul was like, oh, I can't, I shouldn't have gotten that one wrong or something. Or someone said something in a recent season where, so to me that just reveals like, it's just totally random.

[01:36:29] Cause it's like, that's your bestie in the game or whatever. And you don't know. So, yeah. Um, so that of course leads us to the final two of Danielle and evil Dick. Um, and, uh, this is again, a scenario where like, you know, Dick wins this vote, uh, by,

[01:36:53] by five votes to two, but he, but, but Eric was voted by America to vote for Dick. Um, and, uh, and as did Jessica, she voted for Dick. Uh, and Eric was not only told by America to vote for Dick, but also told, uh, that he needed to campaign, uh, and get others to vote for Dick as well. Um, don't remember that part. Mm.

[01:37:18] And so, uh, you know, pretty conclusively, you would say, I, I think not for that. Danielle is the winner of season eight. Yeah. Um, yeah. I mean, whatever, Taryn, like honestly, like, I mean, whatever, like to us probably at this point, like, I'm just like, whatever. Like, I, like I said, Zach's my winner.

[01:37:47] Like I already stated my winner. Um, and you got to vote for one of them. I feel like Jen had the right idea. And again, that's my girl. Like she had the right idea in the jury. And like, how could y'all ever vote for him? This is a social game at the end of the day. Foundationally, this is a social game. It's like, that's crazy. Like for me, like, that's crazy for you to like, give him your vote. And for her to say, like, I believe she said, like, I could never vote for him after the stuff that he said to me and did to me.

[01:38:17] All of them, all of them got it. He was talking to religion. He was talking to religion. He was talking to your children, Amber. Like, that's crazy. So I don't know. I think like, I'm just like, whatever. I don't care anymore. Like it's to me. And I'm saying like, this is asterisked, asterisked to me, in my opinion. I mean, it's the ultimate asterisk. I think, I think everyone can agree that it is the biggest asterisk in the history of the show. Like for so many reasons.

[01:38:46] I really can't think of anything else. Yeah. Maybe Big Brother Canada season one. I mean, that's all I can think of. But even that is just like one small thing. Like that was a genuine mistake. Whereas, you know, in this season, it was like at least five fairly big things. That's low. That's like, it's like every week for me. And like for you to remind me, like, I don't know why my brain forgot.

[01:39:15] Like he had to campaign in the jury house. What? That's yeah, that's rigged. Mm hmm. Yeah. So that's it. That's season eight. Of course, to talk a little bit more about maybe Danielle. Well, she ends up winning, I believe, six or seven. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven competitions this season.

[01:39:42] Uh, and for a long time, that is one of the highest, um, you know, uh, amounts of competitions, uh, one. Um, and especially nowadays, now that it is a lot more difficult for seemingly for women to win as many competitions as men. Uh, by a ratio of prior to last season, uh, about three to one.

[01:40:05] Um, she really stood as one of the few, uh, women who was able to be a competition beast, um, before the, the competitions really, uh, shifted. Um, and so, uh, really well known for her competition prowess. She is going to come back of course, uh, in, on two different instances, uh, one on big brother, uh, 13 and one on big brother 22. Neither season she is able to really replicate her success in the competitions.

[01:40:34] Uh, I would say probably likely because they continued to shift from big brother eight to, uh, away from her particular set of skills that, uh, allowed her to dominate in season eight. Um, but, uh, but I think that, uh, at this time she leaves season eight, not a huge fan favorite. Uh, in fact, when she gets brought back for season 13, um, there's an argument to me to be made that it's, primarily because she comes with her father.

[01:41:03] Um, I don't know that she would have been a top, top choice from production on her own at that time, even though she did make a big impact and would have won this season, if not for many things, or maybe she wouldn't have been in that spot. If Eric hadn't been there in the first place, you can make tons of arguments there. Uh, but eventually he's going to come back and become a fan favorite on big brother 13, uh, without her father there. Um, and, uh, and that's going to be, uh, another story that we get into, of course, later. Yep.

[01:41:33] And for 22, she kind of falls back into the, like, not a big fan favorite. And the moral of the story, ladies, dye your hair black. Dye your hair black. And go out on top. Uh, I think. Um, and then of course, uh, evil Dick, we talked plenty about him. Um, I would say for like the horse historical record, uh, for a while.

[01:41:58] Um, and, and this might surprise people because I think this is like immensely shifted nowadays, but I would say that for at least, um, like two to three years after big brother eight, people talked about evil Dick as one of the best winners. Yeah. Of the show. Uh, in the show's history.

[01:42:22] In fact, um, a lot of it was Dr. Will, evil Dick, and then Dan Giesling came and it was Dr. Will, Dan Giesling, and evil Dick, uh, as like the three.

[01:42:37] Um, and that, that changed pretty significantly, um, at around the time of like, you know, by the time Dan sort of eclipsed in many people's eyes, Dr. Will in season 14, uh, evil, evil Dick started to fall off of those charts. Um, and people started to look at the season closely again, um, and reexamine exactly how it was that he got there.

[01:43:07] And I think that's also, uh, because like the online communities became more consolidated. There was a lot more discussion around the show, um, and, uh, a lot more like analysis of the strategy more so than just like sort of taking the narrative that the edit gave people. Um, but yeah, for a while, that's how it, that's how it was. Um, and so, uh, I think that's, I think that's like, for me, that's just like a thing I remember, but I think for a lot of people that weren't around at the time, it's like a very fun fact, perhaps.

[01:43:35] Maybe not a fun fact, but a very like interesting little fact that they probably wouldn't have guessed. Yeah. Honestly, I was around, like I started watching for the first time around, around 15. And then I went like my first full season was 16. So quite interesting for me to say that what I'm about to say, but I feel like it was during, and then I went back to watch all of them, but, um, it seemed like around 16 and on. I feel like since Derek's win, it kind of, that's when he kind of started to fade a little bit, even more.

[01:44:01] Like it really pushed him down, I think is when it happened. Cause when I was like doing my research and like watching the seasons back and stuff, I felt like people, I was still seeing that narrative. It was like, Oh, evil Dick. Like he's one of the top. We've got Mike Boogie. We've got Dr. Will. We've got Dan. We've got all these people. And I'm like, Oh, evil Dick is like a really popular winner and character. Um, but yeah, as of right now, no, it started fading. Like right when I got into it, I think. All right.

[01:44:28] Well, uh, Lavina, who is on the poster? Okay. Now I'm answering it correctly. Got it. Okay. Now you're answering for season eight. Can I, so should I do like who I really think it is or should I give my opinion? Give me your picks and then give me who you think it's going to be. Ooh. Ooh. Okay. Jen is my top, um, the top person for me personally. That's my picks. Um, and then I will put for my faves, Jessica and Eric for me for my personal ones, but who

[01:44:57] I think it is, it's Dick Danielle. And I mean, Eric, because he was America's player. It seems like the most, the most obvious thing for sure would be Dick Danielle. Well, Eric, um, in, in some order, uh, if I were to try to get other options, I think Jen would have a, I have a shot.

[01:45:21] I think, you know, maybe you could see Jessica pull, pull some votes, but I think it's going to be, I think it's gonna be tough. I think it's gonna be tough. Uh, because even if you don't like Dick, he very much is the face of the season. Uh, and even if you don't like Eric, he very much is a face of the season. Uh, so it's hard to get out of those two probably. Um, and then, you know, you're choosing between like Danielle, Jessica, Jen, like, I don't know.

[01:45:48] Uh, I'd be very, I'm very curious, very curious to see. Of course, if you want to vote, you can go to, uh, Rob's website.com slash BB retrospective. Uh, and I will get the, uh, the poll updated for me. For you very shortly for big brother eight. And we'll see, uh, listen, I was surprised at, uh, Janelle over will in season seven. Maybe the audience will surprise me once again for season eight. All right.

[01:46:17] Uh, any other thoughts, Lavina, before we wrap up here? No, I mean, I'm, I'm, I love talking about big brother. Um, this is the perfect off season thing for me to listen to and, you know, participate in now. And I feel like, yeah, I'm ready for this season to start. I'm ready for 27. That's crazy. Oh my God. And I've been here since 22 personally. So that's wild to think about. Wild. All right. Well, thank you all so much for joining us then. We'll be back next week. Talk about big brother.

[01:46:46] Nine, the black hole. Good luck. Have fun. So join us for that. Uh, there's lots of, uh, interesting things to talk about there. Um, and, uh, I'm sure we'll have a good time with it. We'll also reveal who's on the poster for big brother eight. So join us next week to talk about all of that. Uh, in the meantime, check out the tastemakers over on, we know script TV, talk about, uh, what's going on in the world of scripted television film. Um, you can find me over on Twitch, uh, as always.

[01:47:16] Um, Vivian, anything to plug, Lena? Um, no, just, you can follow me on social media at LPavs with two S's and yeah, just excited for big brother. I actually just did. I have, I always forget to plug something, but then I just remembered that I did, um, the free agents podcast with Matt and Scali. We talked about the last, last week's episode of the traders. So you check that out if you have not yet. Well, there you go. All right.

[01:47:41] Well, thank you all so much for joining us here today and we'll see all of you next time. Wir sind Teresa und Nemo und deshalb sind wir zu Shopify gewechselt. Die Plattform, die wir vor Shopify verwendet haben, hat regelmäßig Updates gebraucht, die teilweise dazu geführt haben, dass der Shop nicht funktioniert hat. Endlich macht unser Nemo Boards Shop dadurch auch auf den Mobilgeräten eine gute Figur und

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