Big Brother 3: A Weekly Big Brother Season Retrospective

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_05] Hello everyone and welcome back to RHAP here on the Big Brother Retrospective Series we are doing in the offseason. I am your host Turner Armstrong and today we are continuing through the timeline as we head into the year 2002 to talk about Big Brother 3 because no the numbers cannot be perfectly aligned.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_05] And with me to talk about Big Brother 3, a man who requested this season. I guess we'll find out why it's Chappelle. How you doing Chappelle?

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_02] I'm good. I don't know if I requested this season there and I thought we just talked about this. I this fell into my lap.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_05] I thought it was on the request and he rewarded you with the request.

[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_02] No, I asked for another season that I won't spoil for the people here because I'm sure it'll come out eventually. But no, I recently did the Danielle Reyes conversation preview for the the Traders Podcast. And I think because I was very knowledgeable about Danielle, people thought I would be knowledgeable about Big Brother 3 and thus I am here. I'm more knowledgeable about Big Brother. Well, I'm more knowledgeable about Danielle than I am Big Brother 3. I will say that so this is gonna be a fun conversation.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_05] Well, listen, if you're knowledgeable about Danielle, you're probably pretty knowledgeable about Big Brother 3. But we are going to talk through Big Brother 3 here today. I do think it is one of if not the most influential seasons when it comes to the development of strategy in the show's history.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_05] To this day, people talk about wanting to do what Danielle and Jason did in this season in a way that like just doesn't really exist for even players like Dr. Will or Dan. Everybody wants to have like their Danielle or their Jason and that is because of what they did in this season.

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_05] So we will be talking about it. But first, Chappelle, hmm, I want to I want to reveal the results of last week's survey because we talked about Big Brother 2. We said who are the three people on the poster? Big Brother 2. Or the DVD for Big Brother 2. According to us. Would you like to would you like to take a guess, Chappelle?

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_02] Well, I mean, we know we know Dr. Will is there for sure. Right. So that's well, that's easy. I would probably go with Nicole second. I mean, I feel like if they don't, that's a mistake. And then that third spot. I remember you and Mari kind of debating who that third spot could be. Mari was kind of floating Monica and even, you know, Hardy. And I feel like those are both really good options. So I'm a flip a coin and just land on Monica.

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_05] Chappelle, you nailed it.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_05] Here is the 25th anniversary edition. R.H.A.P. poster for Big Brother 2. Will Nicole and Monica on the cover. It's the final three. It's the final three. Can't get more simple than that.

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. And I hope to make that conversation a little bit more complicated for Big Brother 3.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_05] It might be a little more complicated. You know, Big Brother 2, it kind of you can all you can kind of judge like, how does the audience feel about the results of the season based on who they put on the poster? You know what I mean? If they put the top three in order on the poster, then they're like, you know what? That season worked out the way it was supposed to. If they don't. It might be Big Brother 3. Yeah.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_02] We shall see. I think that's going to be a very fun conversation to have. I can't wait.

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_05] Yes. All right. So that's what that was Big Brother 2. But let's talk about Big Brother 3 because Big Brother 2 ends. Dr. Will wins the season like Richard Hatch before him proves that you don't have to be likable to win. And and so we head into season three. It's now 2002. They're dialing it back a little bit.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_05] You know, they went a little hard on the like, like, hey, look at these people. They're being wild and crazy. And then it was a little too wild and crazy. You know, Justin was a little too wild and crazy. And so they dial it back a little bit. They say, look, they don't know this is good. We're a little calmer now in Big Brother 3. And so, you know, but not to come. But but they don't do too much. They don't change the game too much.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_05] The big things that they do, the big thing that they do, really, the only big primary thing that they change about the game is that they introduce a new twist. Vito power of Vito, not the golden power of Vito, regular silver power of Vito. So the idea is simple.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_05] Obviously, they're just trying to introduce more things to do in the episodes, make the gameplay a little more interesting over the course of the week, add some more wrinkles to the plot. But at first, the Vito can be won by anybody. All the players are playing in the Vito competition. And more importantly, you cannot use the silver power of Vito to save yourself.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_05] It must be used by somebody else to save you, which is a you can sort of understand where they're coming from when with this like, oh, it's a social game. You know, you got to so you got to convince somebody to save you. But it did create some scenarios where basically if you're on the block, you're throwing the Vito competition because you don't want to win because you are the only person. You are the worst person to win the competition. You can't use the Vito on you.

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_02] Exactly. You're like, I hope somebody else wins it and saves me because if I win, I got to save my competition. And then who knows is going to go up against me. You know, I go from being a pawn to the number one threat. You know, if you're sitting next to somebody and we'll get into the cast, of course, but you're sitting in somebody who people are dying to get out. You're really going to hate when that person gets replaced with somebody who like we can actually keep them. How about you just go? And yeah. So you're hoping anybody wins the Vito except for you until eventually they switch that up. And then we see people just refusing to use the Vito on themselves anyway.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_02] So, you know, you go. We have a long journey here. Big Brother three.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_05] Truly. They also are going to have the first buyback twist, the first returner from being evicted. Amy is going to be evicted and then come back into the game. This is, of course, a twist that they have come back to many times, although I would say not the most successful twist in terms of outcomes and sort of like audience response to that one.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_05] So very, very good twists implemented. You know, not as good twist implemented. We are. We're one for two. Yeah.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_02] And like you said, the audience doesn't really like it. I think that as a fandom, we all kind of just bought into the idea of someone gets voted out. They lost. Right. They could come back and we've seen it happen. They can come back and win. It took a while, but it could happen. But I think from my perspective, it's always been like, well, you got voted out if you come back, you know, we'll just get you out again. Or, you know, like you really aren't that big of a threat because you're going to make it to the end. And someone's going to be able to say I was in here 100 days and you were only in here at 60 or 50 or whatever, however many days. Right.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_02] So up until recent years, if you got voted out of the game, you probably didn't really stand a chance of winning. And this is probably the first example of that.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_05] Mm hmm. So so here we go here. Look, this is the we got we got a little slideshow going on. I love a slideshow. We got a slideshow. It's happening. And here's our cast, the Big Brother three cast. Chappelle, can you tell me what was your first when did you first watch Big Brother three?

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_02] This is a really hard conversation to have because I don't remember exactly like when I jumped in. I just know I watched a lot of them in succession. So if in in my memory, right, it's been a long time. But I remember I had a friend in school who was like she was determined to talk to me about Big Brother. And she knew I watched a lot of TV, but I didn't really watch Big Brother. She was like, oh, my God, we got Big Brother. This Big Brother. I'm like, I'm kind of a survivor guy. Oh, my God. So I think matter of fact, I think it's right before right after Big Brother All Stars.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_02] I think that's why she was so hype. And she's telling me all about Chill Town. And I'm just nodding along like, oh, OK, cool. So I know another season of Big Brother is coming up. I got a year to find it, basically. And I just binge and binge and binge and binge on like all the back alley, you know, torrent websites and stuff like that. Looking for links. And I start at the beginning, basically. I don't even want Big Brother one. I was informed. But Big Brother two, Big Brother three. And when I got to Big Brother three, that's kind of where I was like, huh.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_02] OK, I understand now because I had seen Big Brother before. I just didn't care about it. You know, like I wasn't really tapped into the strategy. People live in a house. I already watched the real world. I don't necessarily need that. But when I started to watch Big Brother two and then all the subsequent seasons after that, you could really tell where the game was going. And I was hooked from that moment. So I think probably one of the first live seasons I watched was probably like seven or eight. I thought it's somewhere in there.

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_03] Mm hmm. Yeah.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. I mean, it's I would say was a season where like it was the first season people I think were like excited to watch for Big Brother the game. Like the first season came and people are like, oh, what is it? What is this weird thing? And then they were like, oh, it sucks. And then the second season came and people were like, oh, are you really going to be good? Right. And then they were like, oh, it was actually pretty good. And so season three was like, all right, like that's where we're interested.

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_05] We're we're sitting here for this. And and they were kind of like, like, oh, is there going to be like another one this season? Like what's going to happen? And and and so I was, you know, I, I, of course, was was watching as as a young, young child. And and I, you know, I don't I think I was.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_05] I think I initially was like, like I thought Josh was funny when I first started watching. I really liked Jason, but I very quickly became such a Danielle fan because of the way that she was approaching the game. And I think that many people had a similar experience there. So should we run through the cast a little bit? Any any like top memories that stand out for you, Chappelle?

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_02] Well, I was looking earlier as I was like refreshing my memory for the season. And I saw a quote from Arnold Shapiro at the time talking about how I know I don't want to insult last season's cast. But this cast is going to make the bathing suit time worth it, you know? And then I think of Jerry in the bathing suit. I'm like, OK, well, you know, like, oh, OK, we got there very quickly, didn't we, Arnold Shapiro? But yeah, some big moments from the cast for sure.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_05] Shapiro really, really was trying to sell that.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. Look, this is actually a group of people. It really is. I think that we will find that in how the cast interacts. There are couples just forming very quickly in the house. A lot of flirting in this season. You know, when one when one pair is broken up, you start to question, well, is this pair about to form? You know, so I think that they were looking to get more of that going. And it really it really worked. You know, I don't know if it has anything to do with Mike Boogie's cringy, you know, proposal or, you know,

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_02] maybe the flirt man's between Nicole and Will from the previous season. But it looks like that was that was what they were going for. And then you have people like Danielle and Jason who are largely not a part of that to an extent for Jason. I guess I should say, but largely not a part of that. And they are the ones who are the most tapped in on the strategy of the game.

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_05] Mm hmm. All right, let's let's run through the cast. Lori was our first boot. A victim of the first real victim of the veto as well, because Marcellus was supposed to be the first boot here, but ultimately was saved by by Jerry using the veto on him. And and Lori ends up taking the hit for now for for two seasons in a row.

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_05] The person that was nominated essentially as the pawn ends up going home first, really further cementing like just don't don't be nominated. Don't be the pawn. It's not a good place to be.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_02] No. And we will this will create the lore that we have. You know, you talk about how I started in season two, but once it's season two, season three, like, well, you know, it's a pattern now. So when I if I ever get a chance, I'm going to try to avoid being the pawn. And that becomes, you know, just like the lore of Big Brother moving forward, the strategy of Big Brother moving forward. And like you said, it's really defining how people will play the game in the future.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_03] Mm hmm.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_05] I know Lori is a victim of, I think, something that has become very commonplace now, which is the, you know, people entered the show and they quickly grouped up into like a kind of majority alliance. And it was kind of the couples. It was, you know, it was Roddy and Kiara and Eric and Lisa. And then they pulled in, you know, Jerry and Josh at first.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_05] And then Jerry kind of rebelled against them because he was like, you who casts in must first look at their own house or whatever he said. Yeah. And so Lori was left out. She was not a part of the initial click. And and she, you know, she was she she had a personality.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_02] She did. She did. Lori is one of my favorite first boots because I can actually remember her. A lot of the first boots that happened in Big Brother, you're like this person played Big Brother. I said, absolutely not. But Lori? No, I remember Lori because there is this amazing argument that has to pop off between Lori and Danielle Reyes at some point where Jerry steps out of the bathroom. Danielle's in the shower. She looks over and sees Jerry walk right past the sink. He does not wash his nasty hands. And so they're sitting around talking about it. It's Big Brother. What else are you supposed to do?

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_02] So they sit around. They're kind of like, hey, Jerry nasty. He don't wash his hands as nasty as he going in there to cook. I think I saw him touch the meat. And Lori is just like, she's not having it. She's a shut it down. Whoever started this like, who is it? Who come on? Come on. Tell me who started them. Who was the ringleader? And Danielle just snapped. She says, like, I went ghetto fabulous. I had to lie. I had to tell her about herself. Like it was heat. Okay, because she. Lori was just not going to sit there and like make them, I guess, blow this thing with Jerry out of proportion.

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_05] She felt like it was going overboard. Like here's this guy who's already embarrassed. He's on national television and you're making fun of him for not washing his hands. And she felt like I'm going to jump in and defend Jerry.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_02] Right. And the perception of their on television is also permeating through the house. Right. So Lori is one of the first people to kind of vocalize like he's going to see this on TV. Like people are going to be judging him on television. Y'all just sitting around laughing and talk to him. So she says, Jerry, they're talking about you. Come to come out here. And he comes out and Danielle just calmly explains to him. You need to wash your next dance, you know, and it's iconic. But I feel like Lori won the argument. You know, don't talk about these people behind their backs in front of people who will go back and tell them.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_05] I mean, ironically, I think Lori's interference in the situation likely is what what made the edit. Yeah, you probably would not have made the episodes. Right.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. Don't get me wrong. The feeds was out there, but people probably wouldn't care. I've learned in recent years that a lot of people are OK with just not washing their hands when they use the restroom. Like I thought it was I've always I've always been on Danielle's side. Like, hey, you know, wash your hands. But like I said, a lot of people don't care as much as you can see with Lori where it's like it's almost a non issue. Go tell him to wash your hands. He'll do it next time. We'll be fine. We're not going to die. But yeah, her blowing this out of proportion or even just escalating it to the point where it's an argument with her and Danielle.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_02] It's a it's her standout moment. Honestly, I don't think there's a more memorable moment for Lori.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah, I mean, listen, let's let's solve this right now. Chappelle, we're in the Big Brother house and somebody doesn't wash their hands. Let's say it's Amon. OK, sounds about right. Amon doesn't wash his hands. What do we do? Are we going to are we going to talk about him behind his back? Are we going to are we going to kind of go up to him on be like, hey, I'm on. You should really just want you should really wash your hands. Or are we going to be like, listen, shut up.

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_05] Nobody say anything. What's the play here?

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_02] Are we aligned with Amon? Because we're aligned with Amon. I think we got to pull him to the side and be like, Amon. Hey, just so you know, the house noticed that you didn't wash your hands. OK, they're coming for you because you didn't wash it. Make sure you wash them next time. Hey, clean that up a little bit. You know, that's how Sari would probably handle it. But if we're not aligned with Amon, me and you are going to whisper out about hide his back and then hope that everybody gets mad at him about it so he can go home.

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_05] That is a good point. Yeah, I think if if if they are if Amon is not on our and not in our alliance, then I think we use it as like a you can't trust a man that doesn't wash his hands.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_02] Come on. Right. You just can't. Don't you want to don't you want to put him on the block? Imagine if he sticks around. I think this is a good learning, like a lesson to learn for Danielle, too, because she's talking too much. You know, clearly if you feel this way about him, you know, if you're not using it to your advantage and why are you saying it if it's going to piss people like Lori off potentially make Jerry upset with you? You know, I think from here she kind of starts to dial it back a little bit. It's it's the first week, but she already knows she's not in the majority alliance. She can see the were they the cartel there. What was the name of the cartel?

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah, that was the name.

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_02] You can see the cartel forming around her and she knows she's not in it. So, you know, after this, she got to tighten this up a little bit.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_05] Yes. Keep your mouth shut. Your eyes open. That's what that's what she says, except for when somebody doesn't wash their hands. Or maybe or maybe says her name on the traders. I don't know. Yeah, so.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_02] She acting brand new. She acting brand new. Never mind. We'll talk about it later.

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_05] Yes, this vote ends up being five to four. It's a very close vote with Amy as Marcellus is replacement. Now, this largely comes down to the fact that this cartel alliance came together. Their initial target was Marcellus Jerry revolts in this doesn't really happen in modern big brother, but like somebody from the majority essentially wins the veto and decides. I'm going to take a moral stance on what we have done and and block it with the veto.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_05] And and Lisa and the rest of them are pissed. They're like, oh, Jerry's got it. He's going to go. He's not going to last in this game. And they replace Jerry essentially with with Tanya and they retain their ability to control the votes here.

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_05] So even though Danielle, Jason, Jerry and Josh and all of them votes vote Amy out the majority with with the help of Marcellus because he's tied to Amy as well end up taking Lori out over Amy. And so Lori becomes our first man. Close close vote.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, this doesn't happen often. Like like you said, it's a moral stance and it kind of marks the personality of Jerry, which I'm talking we'll talk about soon. Is it like he was the local social justice warrior in the house? You know, he was always going to be like looking out for the little guy and no matter what that meant. And it didn't matter who else felt the way he felt he was going to speak up. And he really felt like, hey, this might this might be a little racist and or homophobic. And Jerry had to let you know that there's nothing wrong with Marcellus cleaning out. You know, we got to let him do his thing. And so, yeah, very interested.

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_02] I said, I think the most recent example that I could probably think about in Big Brother history is probably what is it? Was it McKenzie who was flipped by chemo's whole like, you know, like I think he's here for a bigger reason. I can't you know, like his his speech was enough to make her flip her vote, you know. But yeah, a lot of times you really don't see this happening.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah, you really don't. Yeah, maybe maybe something along those lines. It's you know, honestly, the first thing I thought of was was a season. We'll talk about next season when Nathan uses the veto on Ali. Oh, God. Very different reasons. Stupid, stupid man. Very different reasons. Dummy. But similarly, not game related, I would say is probably the case. OK, so we head into the next week.

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_05] Lisa, of course, by the way, was the H.O.H. that week. The first of many first H.O.H. is that go on to win the game. But in the next week, Marcellus goes from the bottom to the top. He wins the H.O.H. And he says, Tanya, you're going to join the cartel. No.

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_03] Hmm.

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_05] Poor Tanya. And down she goes.

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_02] Poor Tanya. This lady did nothing to nobody. She didn't do anything. And they were frying her ass in the confessionals because she was too sexy to be a mom. OK, she's out here.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_05] Do not have a great track record on Big Brother.

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_02] Right. She's hanging out with Lisa and Kiara, walking around with like peanut butter, like like a bathing suit streak they created together and stuff like that. I think Marcellus called her a stripper masquerading as a mother or something like that. Like it's a lot. Danielle even said, I don't respect her as a mother. Ma'am, you don't know her as a mother. You have not seen her mother anything. You know what I'm saying? So Tanya. Yeah, I felt really bad for Tanya. Even when I watched it back then like, damn, y'all on her ass. Yeah, she didn't do nothing.

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah, this is like this is really one of those instances where you're like, OK, yeah, this is 2002. But then you also remember we're in 2025 and it's like, oh, is it that different?

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_02] It's not that different. She also looked a little bit like Pamela Anderson and that wasn't helping her either. They were like, oh, no, this is we're going to take a moral stance against Tanya's existence, I guess. I don't know.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah, I think there was definitely a lot more kind of like open disdain for this look, the look of somebody like this. And if she dared also be a mom or like anything but what she looked like, then, you know, then that that was really a true crime against, I guess, humanity. And so certainly did not help her case in the game.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_05] She ends up going on the block against Josh, who I'm sure we will talk about in just a couple of rounds here. But Josh is already pissing people off. He's already causing chaos within the majority. And and this is again, it's one of those. It's why Big Brother works so well. They had this majority alliance. They replaced Jerry with Tanya. And now Tanya is on the block against Josh and they have to choose between these two.

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_05] And the alliance is not in agreement on which one they want to keep. Lisa is is done with Josh at this point. She's very annoyed with him, as is Kiara. But, you know, Roddy and Eric, they still feel like now we got to keep our little bro around. And so it's it's causing some tension already.

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. And it's causing a bit of a rift that I really didn't expect. Looking back, they start to question this is should this be like a girls versus guy thing? I think we have a girls alliance because we because the guys are going to outnumber us getting rid of two women back to back like this. We can't allow them to just keep Josh around. We've got to step it up. And so, yeah, the the divide is going from the cartel versus the others to like the cartel with a little movement, you know, into these different lanes, you know, with Roddy and Eric going in one direction.

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_02] And then Lisa Kiara and the women kind of looking at each other and be like, we should tighten the ranks a little bit, too, because they're getting out of control.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_05] Mm hmm. Yeah. So, of course, I do think probably most well known for the peanut butter bikini scene, as previously mentioned, some interesting parallels for Survivor that this is going to you know, this is going to be right before Survivor. So the Amazon has its own peanut butter scene with nudity. And Rob was on that season. He was supposed to be on this season.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_05] It's like, Rob, what are we doing?

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. Coincidence? I don't know. I don't think so. I have to hear all sides.

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_05] Have you ever seen Rob and peanut butter in the same room together?

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_02] No, he fell out. Yeah, well, maybe I guess so. I guess he was in that scene, but not in the same room. No. Big peanut butter is behind this. I know it.

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. So certainly giving Arnold Shapiro what he was hoping for, I think, in that scene. But this is going to be it for Tanya as we head into the third week when Roddy wins the HOH. And this is not. Oh, right. OK. The slideshow is off because Amy comes back.

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_02] Mustn't forget that.

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_05] Amy is evicted on. I was like, Roddy did not evict Eric.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_03] That's weird. Yeah. When did he do that?

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_05] Roddy is going to take out Amy. They have quite the the storied journey across this season, Roddy and Amy. But he is going to nominate Amy and Marcellus. And and this time the house evicts Amy over Marcellus. Marcellus has done some fantastic work in the house to ingratiate himself with both the big power alliance, but also what Danielle and Jason are doing on the side. He is an essential part of that at the moment as well.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_05] And Amy is just not as valuable to anybody. And she becomes the first unanimously evicted player from the game.

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. But you have an alliance of two people who you have to question their motives and their desire to stay in the game. Marcellus being one of the most dramatic people who ever lived is going to take this and turn it into a Shakespearean, you know, drama. And Amy, at certain parts, looks like she could care less. I remember people talking about how they wanted to quit the game. You know, they're like, I don't want to sit next to you. You're my best friend. I walk out of here. Well, I walk out of here. I'm sure the diary room had to talk to them a few times.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_02] Like Amy and Marcellus are going to pull this thing basically twice. You know, it's crazy that this is what they do. But Amy will go out and, you know, sitting next to her bestie. And it's it's going to be poetic justice later on when she comes back and sit next to her bestie again.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. So we'll talk more about Amy later and then we'll we'll move on quickly to to week four. That week was fairly standard in terms of, again, the Roddy, the majority wins the H.O.H., takes out one of the outsiders. But then Jerry comes back to haunt them once again as he wins the H.O.H. and takes a big shot at at at Eric and and ultimately just shatters the big majority alliance.

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_05] Now, to really like understand this week, you kind of have to like get into the weeds of what Danielle and Jason have been doing, because basically from week one, well, all this other stuff is happening. They have connected. They've made a secret alliance. They're not the first to come up with the concept of a secret alliance. No, but they are the first to actually implement it and and succeed in doing so.

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_05] And so with the secret alliance, Danielle is able to start forming bonds over here with Marcellus and and start working on Lisa. And Jason is able to work on some of the people in the majority over here like Roddy. And and meanwhile, start picking up some pieces here and there. They recognize that they were not included in a big majority alliance. They saw that was happening. And so they knew that they needed to do something about it. And so that's why Danielle is working on Lisa like, hey, these these guys don't have your best interest.

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_05] Danielle, absolutely a part of why there was a split between the men and the women in the week where Josh was on the block against Tanya. And so when Eric ends up on the block against Lisa. The two the showmance.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_03] Mm hmm.

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_05] The guys want to keep Eric. Roddy certainly wants to keep Eric, as does Josh. And Kiara is kind of like, well, I guess I'll go with Roddy. And it's like, oh, the entire alliance is turning on Lisa. And so what can you do with that? That is the question that was in front of them. And and Danielle and Jason have essentially decided we we we can save Lisa.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_05] We can save Lisa and expose the rest of that alliance for having wanted her out and then pull her away. And it just completely shatters the entire thing. But in order to really properly do that, they needed to make sure that the votes proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, like, hey, your girl, Kiara voted against you. Roddy voted against you. Josh voted against you. And so they had to kind of think that they had those numbers.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_05] And so they they help orchestrate this split vote, where it comes down to, you know, just the right amount of of votes on each side. It's a three three vote. Jerry breaks the tie, saves Lisa. And now Lisa's pissed. Like her her friends just voted her out. And and and what a what a week.

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_02] Mm hmm. It's like you could understand Roddy voting for Eric. Like no one's going to bat an eye at that. But Kiara, come on, man, it's it's the women's alliance. You're my girl. You supposed to you supposed to have my back. And then, of course, they weren't being honest with this. It's not like they told her, like, hey, we're going to pick Eric over you this time. I'm sorry. Not sorry. You know, it's only a game. Blah, blah, blah. Nope. They lied. They lied. So you got Josh pointed the finger at Kiara. Kiara pointed from your Josh. And meanwhile, Danielle is running back and saying, like, see, see, he's like, I don't talk about that.

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_02] You can't mess with them that you can't trust them. You can only look at me and Jerry and all the rest of them. Don't say anything. Keep your mouth shut. Just eyes open.

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_05] Just watch.

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, we haven't talked about Lisa because her face hasn't popped up on the screen much yet. But prior to this, Lisa's entire story is Eric. It is just she won the first H.O.H. and then her and Eric start showmancing. And then every scene that we get from Lisa throughout the season dealing with anything is like Lisa talking to Kiara. Then going to talk to Eric.

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_05] There's like tinkering music happening in the background.

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_02] They're going to her family, like at home. You know, remember when Big Brother used to be messy like that would go to your family and be like, so do you think this is going to work out? And they're showing clips of her like getting like, oh, yeah, Eric can make me orgasm. Like it's it was real schmoopy. OK, and that was her whole thing. Now that it's been shown that people are playing in the game and potentially using her and looking at her as expendable and betraying her. She's like, no, I don't like that. And Danielle sees her as the perfect opportunity to kind of weaponize. It's like, no, no, no, no. Don't say anything. Just listen. Just listen.

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_02] Because now Lisa's not a target anymore. She was a target because she was a showman. You know, it was very quick. Quickly. Jerry's like, all right, we got to break the two of you up because y'all are a power couple. It's a tale as old as Tom and Big Brother. But now she's lost Eric. What if you just quietly fade into the background like Danielle, like Jason, and then start letting these other people fight, like pick up as much information you can and then use it to your advantage. And she's going to start doing that right here.

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_05] Mm hmm. The big thing for me, especially as a kid, because there are only a couple of things that I really remember as a kid from these early seasons. I remember Danielle and Jason. I remember the devil. And and one of the things I remembered from this season was. The high moment.

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_02] When it's so annoying, Taron, it really is because it just didn't go away either. We thought Eric was out the house. We have to talk about it no more. No, it's going to permeate throughout the season.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_05] I was so confused as a kid because Lisa makes such a big deal about how Eric just looked at her and said hi.

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_02] It became her favorite word, Taron. Why don't you believe in love? She was just like, I've always wanted someone to do that. And I was like, what do you mean? Taron later on, later on, Amy will come back in the house and be like, oh, yeah, Lisa, Eric said hi. And Lisa is going to crumble. Like, what did you expect for him to say? Hello? Like, wait, he said hi. Because I feel like that's a message to me. I was like, yeah, it means hello. I haven't seen you in a while.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_02] Nice. I hope you're doing well. She's like, no, no, no, that's cold. That's cold. Because he said the magic word. No one else has said this to me before. I've always wanted this. It's so dramatic. But that was big brother back then. I mean, these people fall in love instantly. And then just I don't know, they latch onto the silliest things.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_05] Like, where does that come from? Like, was that was that in a movie or something like what? Like, where did you where do you come up with that particular idea of like, I really want someone to say like hi to me?

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_02] She don't know where she made that up. So the issue here is that she liked this man and it didn't matter what he said. He could have said hello, hi, salutations or whatever.

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_04] But in that moment, hoop.

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_02] And she was like, oh, my God. Y'all see how charming he is?

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_05] He's still like random because it's the 2000s.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_02] Right. Like it's so goofy. All right. All right, Lisa. He had her whipped up. OK, don't get me wrong. Eric was not playing the game at all at this point. He was all in all in on the show, Mads. And the two of them, when they sit next to each other on the block, they're even debating like, I mean, should you if you should you even want somebody to take you off the block? Because if somebody takes me off the block, Lisa, you could go home. I don't want you to go home. Like, Eric, come on, snap out of it. This is a lot of money. Come on, man. No, they were too. They were too far in. They were too far gone. There was nothing we could do.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. So Eric, the firefighter is is going to be sent back to will eventually back to his his his firehouse. If that's what they call it, I guess.

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_02] But, you know, this is where we get the you know, to get the announcement because America, we are being told that like, nah, you thought these people went home. They're being sequestered because they might get back in the game. And then, you know, anybody who, you know, has seen the season before you watch it back and you roll your eyes because you know what's going to happen. You know, it's like it's so schmoopy, but we got to have the moment. And it's also one of Lisa's more defining moments. So I can't wait to talk about it.

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_05] Yes. Well, Kiara wins the next HOH and and it's going to be Josh that ends up going out here. So that whole situation where Kiara votes out Lisa and then Lisa doesn't even end up leaving, as I said, completely shatters the alliance. And and Lisa's justifiably pissed.

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_05] And Kiara's like, that wasn't I. That was Josh and Roddy made me do it. And and and kind of, I guess, as a way of sort of like proving to Lisa, like, hey, I'm on your side. She's like, fine, we'll take out Josh like you have wanted to do since like week two. And the only way to really properly get out Josh is by sending is by putting him up next to Roddy. And there's this whole situation going on.

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_05] Roddy at the time as well, where it's like, are they in a show, man? It's not really. And so she feels fine putting Roddy on the block. And and ultimately, this is going to be the end for for Josh, who is the person who made it on the show instead of one Rob's Esther Nina.

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. And I know that they thought these two people were the same archetype, but I refuse to believe my Rob can act like this. We saw, you know, a kind of, you know, outspoken, manipulative Rob in the Amazon. But Josh is he's a little bit creepy, you know, even for the early 2000s, you know, and I'm not talking about his character now, but back on Big Brother slapping the women on the ass. A lot of stuff that Josh was doing was just not something that would fly. He was really picking on Jerry as well.

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_02] I remember Jerry had like sleep apnea or something like that would be like snoring, like fighting for his life while he was sleeping. Josh would be like throwing stuff at him in the bed and all kinds of stuff. I'm pretty sure you call them a bunch of names, too. It was just Josh was a very polarizing character and somebody who Kiara obviously could put up and be like, all right, we can finally weaponize, like get this man out of the house like everybody wanted. Also, he's he's blowing the whistle on Kiara. He's like, hey, she's trying to work her way back in by saying I manipulated her. But she did this on her own. She wanted you gone.

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_02] She because the most manipulated person in the house, aside from Danielle and Jason, is Roddy. And Roddy had already sunk his teeth into Kiara. There was nothing she could do. She was not going anywhere. He he had her wrapped up. And so she did what he wanted her to do. And Josh was like ringing the bell, like, no, Kiara, you can't get away with this. So she had to get rid of him.

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_05] Mm hmm. Yeah. The thing I always remembered about Josh from watching as a kid was that he'd he'd always be in the diary room, like like just like really loud, like he'd be like in a chair like. So, yeah. So I was I was flapping those asses. Yeah. And you'd be petting like the lizard. Yeah. You'd be like and Roddy was just like, oh, my God. And like, what is Lisa doing?

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_02] And sometimes he would get real monotone, like, yeah, Kiara was looking at me like I was going to let her get away with touches. I was like, OK, get up, sit up. I will give it. I will give him this memorable. That is memorable. Josh, you cannot point to a lot of his game moves, but he is a memorable big brother. The character, if not just for that laying down while doing the confessionals, because it was very funny.

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_05] Mm hmm. Yeah, I think like when when watching as a kid, I remember like like I liked I liked Josh because he approached the game as a game. And I always liked the players that approached the game as a game. But then I quickly sort of like fell off the Josh train, especially as I as I latched on to to Danielle. But I remember still having this kind of like hope, like, well, Josh, he's still like the gamer. Right.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_05] And he was the one that I always felt like, well, Josh should be a vote for Danielle. Right. Like Josh is going to be a vote for Danielle. And they even play that up, I think, a little bit in the episodes. And then when Josh's vote comes down and it's and it's Lisa, that was like I was like, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. And of course, like, listen, I was a child. That was my straw. But now now, when you look back, it's like, OK, there were probably some other straws that could have been drawn.

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_05] But but that to me was like, oh, what a disappointment, Josh. To the end, you're doing what Roddy wants of you.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_02] And it's crazy because it's not even like he just came off like a gamer. He talked about the game in a way that if you believed him, you would you would believe that he was going to vote for Danielle. He's like to not vote for Danielle is to not understand the game of Big Brother. Like those are his exact words. And then he doesn't go and vote for Danielle is like. OK, you know, like to punish Danielle for being a good player in the game is to not understand the game. And then he did not vote for it. It was like, all right. So who doesn't understand the game, Josh?

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_02] Are you still being manipulated by Roddy or do you just really feel like this is not something you reward? Imagine Josh, the guy who's groping the women to take like to have the moral high ground in this situation, you know? And so I'm sure, you know, he's probably aged and learned a lot from this. But yeah, he's he's a very interesting character in Big Brother three.

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah, I mean, I think ultimately the way I sort of contextualize it in my own head is that he like he came into the game thinking he was a Rob Sesternino thinking he was going to be playing the game really hard and, you know, doing whatever it took. But then like he just got sucked into the vortex that was Roddy. And he just it was like this, this guy, this guy likes me. He's gonna work with me. And and I feel like we see that time and time again on Big Brother.

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_05] There are some people that like, especially if you are a little bit on like the nerdy or goofier side, like you come into the game thinking like I'm not used to being like a cool kid or anything. And so I'm ready to take them down. But then sometimes you get the invite and it's maybe the first time. And I'm not putting this all on Josh. I'm just in general, this has happened, I think, plenty of times across Big Brother. But sometimes it's like the first time or sometimes it's just like, wow, like I'm I'm in now.

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_05] And all of that, like bluster that you had about like approaching the game like it was a chess board and like, you know, I'm going to I'm going to tear down the whatever. It kind of it kind of goes away because you just get enamored with these people and you don't necessarily have the same kinds of boundaries that people who are a little more accustomed to being around people like Roddy would have. And so you just get sucked right in. And I and I just feel like that's what happened to Josh.

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_05] He just got sucked in to Roddy, who is just so charismatic and and just pulled so many people into his his devil's weave.

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, yeah, for sure. He should be studied the pull that he had on people because someone like Josh should have been, you know, very aware of where he stood in the house, obviously. And who was willing to play with him? Because the people who are alive with Roddy were openly not like talking bad about Josh when it was Kiara and Lisa. They were they were trying to get rid of you week one, kid. And so for it to kind of come down to this, he's like, it's like, how did you end up in this pot? But yeah, it became the war between him and Kiara and Kiara won the HOH that week. So it was just a matter of time before they got him.

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_05] All right. So they then are going to vote somebody back into the game. This is, of course, when Lisa decides not to vote her her boo, her high guy, Eric, back in. Not that it would have mattered. The votes weren't there anyway. But like as a symbolic sort of like separation and like moving on to like I'm now the game Lisa instead of the showman's Lisa.

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_05] It's a very fun moment. Ultimately, they vote Amy back in and the HOH is that they're all in a big tub and they just give the HOH to Amy because there's like we'll just have Amy do our dirty work for us.

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, pretty much. And like the people would be very annoyed if Amy came back. Right. Because they were not feeling Amy the most. One thing about Lisa not voting back Eric. You know, like you said, it is a symbolic gesture, but it did really, really like hurt her. Right. Like she was crying about it. Like this was a thing that she would not stop talking about in the DR. She was having her moments because she felt really bad. And I like this part in the season because to this point, this is the Danielle and Jason show with like their war against Roddy.

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_02] It's kind of what is happening in the background. And now we see a different storyline starting to form where the princess of darkness is arising and it's Lisa. And to me, if you're ever questioning Danielle's influence on Lisa, when Danielle's arguing with Kiara, she's saying the exact same words that Danielle would say. When Lisa's saying like, like I'm keeping my eyes closed and my mouth closed and my eyes open. I'm like, I wonder where you got that from. Like you can't just regurgitate someone else's argument in that fight and be like, I'm like, yeah, I see Lisa.

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_02] She's gaming now. Danielle's like puppeting this woman for a second. But it did start to transform her. Or this is where it's like we get Darth Lisa and she's aware now that it's a game. And now she's like locked in a little bit more.

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. And Kiara is such an interesting character across the season. A part of this majority alliance in a kind of showman slash flirt manse with Roddy, where it's kind of like she's on and off again with him in the same way that she's on and off again with that alliance in the first place. And on and off again with her friendship with Lisa. And it's like she just I feel like ultimately just couldn't choose one path and stick with it.

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_05] And and part of that was that, like, any time she started to venture too far, Roddy would kind of be like, come on.

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_02] What are you doing? Come on. Come on back. What are you doing over there?

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_05] Back to Roddy. Over here. And then she'd come back over. And he'd be like, listen, we're just friends. You know, like it's you know, like like you have no obligation to me. Like you should be making your own decision. She'd be like, oh, OK, I guess I'll come over and be like, oh, interestingly, you're going over there. What are you doing over there?

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_02] It also didn't hurt that. Well, it hurt her. But Amy comes back into the house and Amy can't stand Kiara. She's calling this woman Kihora. She like because Amy is looking at Roddy like, well, I mean, if Kiara, if you and Kiara not actually going to do nothing, tag me in. You know what I'm saying? Let me get a swing. And so Kiara, every time she wants to speak to move away, she sees Amy over there. So I can't let that happen. I'm sorry. I got to get my spot back. You know, so there's a lot of Roddy is playing these two women off of each other.

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_02] Whether he's doing it on purpose or not, like strategically, he'll never he'll never admit it. But he definitely likes the attention that he's getting from both of them, despite Amy being basically a house pariah and Kiara isolating herself to give Roddy whatever he needs at any given moment. So it was very funny to watch. But Kiara is another victim to Roddy who I mean, the charisma of this man is just destroying the house like Danielle and Jason are a force. Roddy's a wrecking ball and doesn't even know it.

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. And there's something that's that's really interesting about season three, which is that, like, especially in reaction to Dr. Will, they were so focused on being a good person and like doing the right thing that like all of the strategy in the openly talked about strategy in the game of Big Brother, because there were two there were two separate kind of not separate. There were two different layers of game that were happening.

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_05] The top layer was all about who is honest, who has integrity, who has honor, who is playing the game the right way. And those are the people that should be making it further, further and further in the game. And who has done something bad? Who has done something wrong? Who lied or who caused who spread a rumor or maybe even who didn't wash their hands? But like those are the people we are targeting.

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_05] And so Roddy, the way that he operated was always my hands are clean. You've got nothing on me. I never said that you should or shouldn't do that. I just had a conversation with you. And so they couldn't really pin anything on him. They could consistently pin things on his allies. Josh, Kiara, all of these other people who got caught doing things. But Roddy was always very careful with his words.

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_05] And he played that surface level game really, really well. Of course, under the surface, everyone was being underhanded and lying and doing whatever. But none of them could admit that. And so the language of the strategy of that season was all about who has been doing the bad things. And of course, Marcellus, who was another huge driver of the surface strategy, was super in on that, too. Like Marcellus is all about like, I have to do the right thing. That is what we must do.

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_05] And so and so, yeah, it through through all of this, Roddy is the one, you know, after Eric and Josh and Kiara, Roddy is the one that manages to survive all the way down as his alliance gets blown up around.

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. Well, I don't know if he's refusing to win HOH or if he's not trying or if he just doesn't. But that helps. He doesn't get blood on his hands. You know, Danielle and Jason are walking around also not getting blood on their hands. Everybody's laying low because once you put people up on the block, whoever survives can now say you wronged them. I'm sure you're not just going to be upfront and honest with them. Amy went home on Roddy's HOH. Nobody cared. You know, it's Amy. They were like, I don't know.

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_05] He had a good reason. He had a reason to put her up on the block.

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_02] He didn't put her up. So it had to happen. Right. So now he comes back and he's like, OK, got Amy out. I'm chilling. I'm good. So everybody else can go. And the whole time they're going, he can be like, yeah, I guess you had to go because you did something wrong. But he stood 10 toes down. I'm saying that I never lied to anybody. And eventually they catch up to him.

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_05] Well, the next week, Jason wins the HOH and Jason can't target Roddy. He has no. He has no reason in front of him that gives him permission to do so. And Jason, for what it's worth, was always better at that style of game than Danielle was.

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_05] And so Jason kind of recognized like, hey, like and I don't know that it was specifically this strategically focused or if it was because I think it was also just Jason really feeling this way about Roddy. But like he's like, I can't do that to Roddy. It will both tank me in the end. But also I'll just feel bad. He's he's not he's done no wrong to me. And so ultimately the shot lands instead on Jerry, who isn't the worst target in the world here.

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_05] He's actually won the most amount of competitions in the season by a pretty decent margin at this point. He's won three. He's won two vetoes in an HOH. And so to take out Jerry here, it makes some amount of sense. But obviously, you know, you kind of you really just wanted to do Roddy. And I think I do think that there is a deeper mistake here, though, because by taking out Jerry, you're leaving both Roddy and Marcellus in the game. And they're both really, really dangerous.

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_05] Final two people like they will win jury votes. And that's that's really bad. And so by leaving both of them in the game, you have to deal with both of them in the next couple of rounds if you want them out before the end game. And so it was too early to take the shot at Marcellus with Roddy and Jerry still in the game. But you could have taken the shot at Roddy and had a little bit more space to take care of Marcellus.

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_05] And so in some ways, Jason kind of puts himself in the position to have to do what he ultimately does to Marcellus later on here by taking the shot at Jerry.

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. If I'm Jason, my fear there is that if I target Roddy, how does the entire house just not like flip their entire opinion about me? Right. Like this is Jason, the youth pastor who can do no wrong, you know, and this is also Roddy. He is spotless. It's like you can't touch him like this man is he's done nothing to anybody that anybody can prove. They can't they can't pin anything on him. So if you just go rogue and target Roddy, people are gonna be like, what is wrong with you?

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_02] You're targeting Roddy of all people. You're a house pariah at that point. Like everybody now has license to come after Jason. Now, I still wish he had done it, but I could definitely see him thinking like, damn, if I do that, then I mean, Amy wins, HOH. They're gonna come after me. Marcellus would probably come after me at that point. Like Danielle's gonna have to be running around here like a chicken with a head cut off trying to save Jason from getting up on the block. Because they did not want to end up on the block at all.

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_02] And I think in modern Big Brother seasons, you're more likely to be like, all right, I can go up on the block and survive it and be okay. I think with you not having the, you know, the ability to save yourself with the veto, it makes that a lot more complicated. And so he's like, nah, I just can't risk being on the block like that. I'm not gonna put myself in danger to take out Roddy. And Roddy's not even coming for me. If anybody's, if Roddy's an issue to anybody, it's Danielle. And so that's almost like a tomorrow issue for me. I can see why he did it.

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_02] But yeah, it makes for better TV that he didn't too, because the Marcellus payoff is so much sweeter than the Roddy payoff would have been.

[00:52:35] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. And so Jerry here, a very interesting character, especially in the early seasons of the show. I mean, how phenomenal that Jerry gets to be the comp beast of the season back then. You know, that's that was the the the the situation with competitions at the time. And not only was he like the comp beast of the season to some degree, he was somebody who was just such a wild card in terms of what he wanted to do.

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_05] He was just going to do what he thought was best. And the the big, you know, the cartel alliance found that out pretty quickly. And and he wasn't taken out right away after the fact either. Like and you I feel like you see this all the time. If you stand up for something that goes against the grain, a lot of people feel like, oh, that's social suicide. Not always, you know, Jerry never like fully got back in with anybody like he was never like a hugely integrated player.

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_05] But he lasted quite a while. And, you know, if Jason does take the shot at Roddy here, he's got a decent shot at making his way to the end. Does he win in the final two? Probably not. But maybe he's Danielle. Who knows? So an interesting player, Jerry, for sure.

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, I will always remember Jerry in his bikini, you know, that very early on in the season. He they they're in the this is back when we have food competitions. I believe it's one of those they're in the goo. I don't know what the goo is. Taryn is what is what is the it's like to slime.

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_05] I think it's just like slime of some sort. And they loved their slime even back then, huh?

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_02] They did. Very Nickelodeon.

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_05] They had to like swap.

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_04] Bathing suits.

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, in the slime. And so Jerry takes off his speedo because, of course, you can't just give him swim trunks or he takes off his trunks and puts on the speedo or whatever. And then by the time he gets out, it's like full of just gunk and it's hanging off like a diaper. It's so nasty. Yeah, that's another image I remember as a child. Seared into my head, man. That's why you can never leave big brother. Once you see Jerry in a speedo, it's like you're stuck watching the show for 30 seasons.

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_05] All right. Well, Marcellus wins the next HOH and this is finally going to be Roddy's time. And what's interesting, too, is that like Marcellus, he was supposed to not nominate Roddy and Roddy was very pissed. He was like, how could you? This is you are going against you are being a bad person for doing this. I have done nothing wrong. And Marcellus literally kind of had to be like, well, you know what, Roddy?

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_05] Maybe you didn't do anything wrong, but everyone around you did. And maybe that says something. And Roddy had to be like, unbelievable. And yes, it was so dramatic, as Sarah Cupcake says in the chat. It was so dramatic this week because Roddy was such a dramatic player. And and it got even more dramatic because Roddy also had this deal with Amy that if she had the opportunity, she would save him with the veto.

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_05] And wouldn't you know it? She wins the veto. And and Danielle is incensed. She's this guy can't kill this guy. He's the devil. And. Oh, Amy's ready to do it. She's like, I'm going to use the veto. No, I'm going to save Roddy. Roddy's up on the block against Lisa. And then, you know, ideally, I save Roddy. We send Lisa home.

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_05] And that's probably, you know, that's probably what happens or it's close to it. Right. Maybe maybe Amy goes over Lisa because we know they chose to eventually anyway. But but. She's she's ready to do it. And she says, Roddy, I'm ready to do this. But but Roddy, I'm worried. I'm worried because if I use the veto on you against Marcellus's wishes, against everybody's wishes. I've I'm going to go up on the block as the replacement against Lisa.

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_05] And I would just like to to make sure because obviously if I use the veto on you is obviously this would be the case. I just want to make sure that you would vote for me to stay after I use the veto on you. And I go after I basically take your spot on the block for you. You would vote for me to stay. Right. Like that's pretty unspoken, but I would like for it to be spoken.

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_05] And Roddy says, can I think about it? And it's like, oh, right. Just like it depends. Like, are you on the block against Lisa? So, yeah, I'm on the block against Lisa. That's the situation. It's like, oh, I just don't know if I could vote against Lisa. I feel like, you know, I told her that I wouldn't vote against her. So it's like, oh, you kind of put me in a tough spot there.

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_05] But you said you were going to use the veto on me. So it's like, really, these things are very they're not conflicting. If you think about it, you could you you you honor your word. Use the veto on me. I honor my word. I vote for Lisa to stay.

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_02] Vote you out. Yeah.

[00:57:37] [SPEAKER_05] Pretty simple.

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_02] Yep. Yeah, pretty much. This is the same dilemma that Dreams and Yao Man are in and Survivor and Fiji because Dreams has won immunity. And he's already told Yao Man, I'm gonna give you immunity if I win it. No worries. If you're in danger, I'll give it to you. But then Yao Man is like, cool. I'm about to vote you out, though. Give it to me. And Dreams is like, huh? Like, yeah, just give it to me. It's like, no. Well, I mean, you're gonna vote me out. It's like, yeah, but I mean, you did say you were going to give it to me. He's like, but then you're gonna vote me out.

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, you said. Roddy gets caught up a couple of times here. You know, he he's he struggles to make the promises to Amy. He also doesn't lock in that show mess that probably would have saved him. Not saying he should have used his his manly wiles, but they were there. Amy was definitely asking for it at different times in the season. But also, he's starting to have to lie to people now. And Danielle is catching on. She's like, wait, Marcellus, what did he say he was gonna do? Did he tell you he was gonna? Because he told me. And if he said that, then he lied. And if he lied, that means we could get him out. That means we could get the devil.

[00:58:38] [SPEAKER_02] We could get the devil out right now. We're gonna get him. And so, yeah, Roddy, this is this is tough, but I will give him credit. Roddy was working every angle of the charisma. OK, he's guilting Amy, but then he's flirting with Marcellus. Now, you remember the scene where they're in the hot tub and Marcellus is kind of like, I got to vote out Roddy. And then two seconds later, he's like, I don't know, man. I don't know if I could do it, man. He's so cute, man. I don't know what's happening. I was like, oh, Marcellus, stand up. Stand up.

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_05] I genuinely think Roddy is one of the most interesting examples of a Big Brother player because of the way that he approached the game and the effectiveness that he had in that way. And his absolute unwillingness to to waver from that method, which ultimately costs him the win here because he had the ability to stay this week. All he needed to do was tell Amy, sure, I will vote to keep you.

[00:59:31] [SPEAKER_05] And because the thing was. His vote didn't matter anyway. He didn't control the votes that week. Danielle and Jason did. It didn't matter which way he voted. He didn't. He had no control over who left. He could have not. Not only could he have just lied and said, yeah, I will vote to keep you and then voted to keep Lisa. He could have just straight up said, yes, I will just vote to keep you knowing that Lisa was going to stay anyway.

[00:59:58] [SPEAKER_02] But then and here's the thing. But he would have gone back on his word. But Roddy, you've already burned Lisa once. You voted her out with Eric, you know, so she already doesn't trust. It's not like there's going to buy you.

[01:00:09] [SPEAKER_05] But he never promised her before.

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_02] He didn't promise her the vote. Lisa, Lisa had this man right where she wanted him at this point. It's like when I stay, I'm coming for you because I ain't forgot the stuff that happened back with Eric. Like for Kiara and Roddy, it was like one of these days, one of these days, Roddy, you're going to slip up and we're going to catch you. And Amy was just the perfect person to do it because Amy, she not only was she trying to keep her word to Roddy, but they've already shown that they didn't really like they didn't really respect Amy's game, you know, like as a person.

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_02] They really they tried to vote her and they voted her out once already. She's like, she's probably not going to win the game. She could take out Roddy and there's really no backlash here. So he was just there, just juggler exposed. And it was just a matter of who was going to be the one to just go ahead and take him out.

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_05] And Amy kind of recognized, like, I'm putting my life in danger by doing this. And Roddy isn't controlling this vote. She just didn't want to look like an idiot. Yeah. She's like, just don't make me look like an absolute fool by saving you and then have you vote me out. And he couldn't give her that. And then the guy had the gall to be mad at her when she chose not to use the veto.

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_02] He was disappointed.

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_05] I'm just so disappointed.

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_02] He wasn't mad. He was disappointed because Roddy can't be mad at you. No, Roddy just he's above that. He's looking down on you like I thought you were better than that.

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_04] I mean, yeah, so fascinating to me. He's good.

[01:01:33] [SPEAKER_02] Roddy's good. He's good. I don't really know much of Roddy's strategy, but I like socially. Yeah, it don't get much better than this man. He just kind of walked through like there was like two or three people who saw him for what he was. And otherwise, he's just walking through here like Satan.

[01:01:48] [SPEAKER_05] Roddy was a player who wasn't like it. Like we often think about players like Daniel Reyes, who's like an individual player who is contending with the structure around her and playing as an individual. Using the relationships. Roddy is a structural player. He operates by maintaining the structure that exists around all of them because that's the structure that suits him. And so if he just keeps that around, he'll win. That's the thing about Roddy. That's why he's so fascinating. He's Tommy.

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_02] He's Tommy. You know, he's got the grateful around him and he's just like, all right, just don't get me. Get them people. Don't mess with me. All right. OK, I see you, Roddy. I respect the move. I like it. I'm like.

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_05] All right. So next up, of course. Marcellus. Really? I mean, what a superstar in the diary room Marcellus was right from the get go. Just as you mentioned, so dramatic, but also so kind of like poetic. Like he just he just had a way with his words that just like everything he said, you'd like you'd hang on every word. You'd be like, what is what is Marcellus going to say next?

[01:02:59] [SPEAKER_05] And that combined with his flair for drama and sort of like just like operatic way of presenting things was just so much fun.

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. Everything was just so just over the top with Marcellus. It's the way he describes Big Brother is like none other. You know, it's just like he's one of the first people who was like I remember I think it's BB7 where he comes back and he's just like the the ground is littered with the bodies of people who thought they were going to be the pawn. And I was like, yes, Marcellus, that's what I'm talking about. Like, it's just he knows how to make the game so much more dramatic than it should be. Right. Like this is Big Brother.

[01:03:38] [SPEAKER_02] These people are in slime and in bikinis. And Marcellus is making like it seem like every move that they make is the most important thing they've ever done in their life at any given point. Even though he's talking like that, he's not necessarily maneuvering like that. You know, he's going to he would put his life in danger if he could have a moment, you know, like if if he can make a speech, he'll mind being on the block.

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_05] You know, in many ways, one of the biggest victims of Roddy's sort of like thing that he built up because Marcellus really buys in hard. And I'm sure that there is a part of Marcellus that always would have been that way. But it very much fell into what Roddy needed him to be, which was like, I am going to do the right thing. Like I am like going to do the honorable thing.

[01:04:27] [SPEAKER_05] And, you know, he was immovable from that stance in order for Danielle and Jason to manipulate him. They had to they meet him where he was and sort of convince him that the honorable thing to do. Was to not use the veto on himself because, of course, Jason wins this HOH. He nominates Amy and Marcellus. Marcellus wins the very first golden power of veto. It's the first time ever that you're allowed to use the veto on yourself.

[01:04:58] [SPEAKER_05] And. You know, we give a lot of credit to Daniel and Jason. We should. They both put in a lot of work to make this happen. But a lot of this also came down to just Marcellus and the situation he was in. The fact that he thought he would he would stay regardless because Jason had convinced him the only reason you're on the block is that Amy's going out. And obviously, you're the closest person to Amy. And so, like, there's there's something there about like he's her friend.

[01:05:27] [SPEAKER_05] So he's going to sit next to her when she leaves. And also, because there's still always that little bit that's under the surface. Also, he wouldn't have to be a vote to send her out. Right. And so. It's it's in his mind. And also, like, the idea of using the veto at all on yourself was like a new thing. Hadn't been done before. Had been against the rules before. Now you can do it. Doesn't mean you should.

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_02] Sounds a little selfish to me. You know, you wouldn't want to do that. Yeah.

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_05] And so he hadn't decided until the very moment. But he stands up there. I'm not going to use it. And Danielle and Jason are just like, what have we done? And Jason has to break the tie because Lisa votes to keep Marcellus. Danielle votes him out. Jason has to stand up. Marcellus.

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_04] Much as it sucks to say. Should have used the veto on yourself.

[01:06:30] [SPEAKER_02] And Marcellus goes. And Julie's like, wait, Marcellus, before you go, I have to say you were evicted. He's like. I just. I can't. I literally. I can't.

[01:06:47] [SPEAKER_05] He hadn't packed his bags. Nope. He had no things. He ran and grabbed a couple of things. And he walks out and he sits down and Julie's just like, Marcellus, I just need to do this.

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_02] How are you thinking? My favorite big brother Jeff of all time, because what is wrong with you? What is wrong with you? Why are you like this? Learn from this, Marcellus. God.

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_05] What a season. What a season. Right. Like, this is the end game. And it's and it's got one of the most classic moments in the history of the show. The high drama of it. The fact that it's Marcellus. The fact that it's the fact that it's Jason. The sweetest guy who's who has to stand there and look him in the face and tell him you. We just tricked you into doing something real stupid. You shouldn't have done that. I'm sorry.

[01:07:41] [SPEAKER_05] Like it was it was just so, so phenomenal. And and forever told people like you always use the veto. Always use the veto.

[01:07:53] [SPEAKER_02] Always. Marcellus, this was crazy. Um, but also kudos to Jason and Danielle. I mean, they had like Danielle was like, if he's sitting there on the block, I got to vote him out. I have to vote him out. And she's like, she's decided I'm going to do it. But the whole the whole week, she's like really working. I'm like, he's like, all right, me and you final two. She's like, uh-huh. Sure. Uh-huh. Because you can't trust because Jason. You think Jason's going to go to the end with me? Like with like with you over me?

[01:08:23] [SPEAKER_02] Like you got to come with me. And he's like, yeah, you're right. So she's just working him and working him and working him and working him and working him. And then she I don't even think she actually believed he wasn't going to use it because who in her right mind wouldn't do it? And then the answer is Marcellus. He is the one. He is the one person dramatic enough. Maybe Amy. Maybe Amy as well, because both of them have been.

[01:08:42] [SPEAKER_05] She was about to use it on. Right.

[01:08:45] [SPEAKER_02] And when they're sitting next to each other, they don't know how to act. We saw that the first time they were on the block. They were both like, I don't know. I can't go out against you. I can't be me. I can't do this. Amy for the sole purpose of I want to sit next to her when she goes out, you know, and that not like in a malicious way. But like this is my friend. I want to be holding her a little bit malicious.

[01:09:03] [SPEAKER_05] At the time, it's kind of like she's done wrong.

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_02] She has. I mean, she doesn't deserve it. She doesn't deserve it. So to sit. I love her. To put yourself in that position. Right. To literally have the moment. Because if you didn't have that little bit of spite in you that wanted to kind of one up Amy one more time because she doesn't deserve to be here. You might have outlasted her and maybe won the game. Who knows?

[01:09:26] Mm hmm.

[01:09:28] [SPEAKER_05] Well, then we have, of course. The Amy week.

[01:09:33] [SPEAKER_02] Now, this don't make no damn sense, Taryn. Explain it to me like I'm five because what?

[01:09:39] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah, this is the this is the big one. If you're going to point out what is the big the biggest mistake that Danielle and Jason make, this is likely the week you will point to. They're in the final four. Danielle wins the HOH. Lisa and Amy are on the block. Jason gets to cast the deciding vote who goes home. They decide to send out Amy over Lisa. Now.

[01:10:04] [SPEAKER_05] Now, they've explained it in the past because basically I remember, you know, going back and talking about this like, geez, like a decade ago now and pointing this out and being like this was their big mistake. And since then, I feel like they've really they've really talked about it. They really like like Jason has talked about it. Danielle has talked about the decision. And, you know, you can sort of see where they're coming from. No. At the time, the way that they're looking at it.

[01:10:32] [SPEAKER_05] They do still see Amy as a bit of a competition threat. They do think that like Amy would have a chance to win a jury vote. They also don't want to lose to Amy. They lose to Lisa. Yeah. And so like there are a few different like things that come into play here. But like ultimately, I think that it's it's a combination of all those things and the fact that like, you know, they've been working more closely with Lisa this whole time.

[01:11:02] [SPEAKER_05] And, you know, Lisa had really dug in a little bit. And this is, you know, I think a credit to Lisa as much as it is a mistake on their part. If they do end up taking Lisa out here over Amy, does Amy win the final three HOH and go on to win the whole game? Maybe.

[01:11:21] [SPEAKER_02] No, no, no, she doesn't. Amy does not win anything after this. This is this is this is insane. But you're right. Lisa did a really good job of becoming Danielle's number two. You know, like she was like Danielle had a number two in Jason. She had a two A in Lisa. She like I don't mind taking either of these two to the final three. Hopefully it's me and Jason. But she sees Lisa, the remnants of this huge alliance that was picking people apart. This person who was just extremely likable when they cut to her family segments.

[01:11:51] [SPEAKER_02] They're always like, all she does is smile and laugh and make everybody feel good about herself. Any if this was anybody else, Danielle is looking at her like, oh, she's got to go. There's no way we could beat her. But because it's Lisa and Lisa's worked to work with her. And that's her that's her princess of darkness. Now I've raised this child. I'm not ready to throw it throw it away for Amy. Of all people, Amy who got voted out. Amy who said rude and nasty things. Amy who doesn't deserve to be here. Amy who loves cheese. She loves cheese. You know, but also I guess I could convince myself that Amy is going to win.

[01:12:21] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. I think Amy. What does she want a few challenges? I think I could see them. Like it's like they start to do the mental gymnastics and they had to be like. Amy is a big threat. I'm like, no, she's not. They're like, yes, she is. She is. She is. And so, yeah, what it comes down to is like you said, they didn't want to lose to Amy. They didn't want to lose to Amy. I mean, they probably she probably wouldn't have won, but they just they couldn't live with themselves if they got somehow Amy got to the end and they said Amy's a better person than y'all.

[01:12:45] [SPEAKER_05] And like you can see, right? Like Amy had very recently won that veto that she almost used to save Roddy. And it was a big moment. It was like, oh, my God, we have Roddy. But the one person we didn't want to win, the only person that might use the veto on Roddy, Amy just won it against everyone's wishes. And that was only like two weeks ago. And so fresh in their minds is like Amy really like coming in clutch and upsetting what they wanted.

[01:13:14] [SPEAKER_05] And the last time Lisa won a competition was like a month, more than a month ago. And, you know, Amy was just coming too close. And they were just like, you know what? Like, we just can't risk Amy winning. And so ultimately, Amy's the one to go here. And the first person to return to the game after being evicted doesn't doesn't really go super well. I mean, she lasts a few more rounds, but does not win.

[01:13:44] [SPEAKER_02] You know, I would like to look at the votes real quick between Jason and Amy because I've never right, right. But like who votes for it? Like because he he's gonna he gets Roddy's vote because Amy betrayed him. He's going to get Kiera's vote because Amy hates her. He's going to get Danielle's vote if Danielle's not in the final. Obviously, Josh will go with Roddy. Josh is going to go with Roddy. Sadly, Lisa's going to go with Jason. I just. Yeah, I mean, Jason.

[01:14:13] [SPEAKER_05] I mean, Jason, I think clears. Most people. I mean, Jason versus Lisa, I think, is maybe the more interesting one. But even then, I think Lisa might win.

[01:14:23] [SPEAKER_02] So to me, this is a bigger error on Jason's part than anything. You know, like if you're like, but he probably thinks I'm winning out. Right. Like if anything, like I like you said, not probably that winning out. But like for him, it was.

[01:14:33] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. I mean, for him, it was only ever him and Danielle. Like like there was no no question of like, well, maybe it's better for me if this happens. And so and that was part of what made them made them work is that they were so dedicated to each other.

[01:14:50] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. Yeah. Massive error. Massive error. One of the worst to happen, honestly, because I think I think that you could squint and see a world where they beat Marcellus and it wouldn't have to be that bad. Amy, it's kind of like, no, you would have be you would have beat Amy. It would have happened. Whoever sat next to her would probably have won because they would have also watched Amy's game back and seen what she said and did to people as well. So Danielle, like if you look if you think you look evil. Yeah.

[01:15:16] [SPEAKER_02] The person calling Kiara Kihora and the one who backstabbed Roddy, you know, that one, she might look even worse. So I'm just saying this is the mistake.

[01:15:27] [SPEAKER_05] Well. Next out was Jason in the final three. I mean, really, like, I guess at this point I had watched. Let's see. No, because so, you know, I watched Survivor. Let's see. Survivor Africa was. It aired. Let's see. It was. In the fall of 2001.

[01:15:56] [SPEAKER_05] So that had already aired. So, yeah, like I was never like the biggest Colby guy. So, like, I wasn't like bummed when Colby lost. And then like Ethan wins Africa. And I was like, let's go. I loved Ethan.

[01:16:13] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, it needed to happen.

[01:16:15] [SPEAKER_05] And then like, like I was perfectly fine with Sepia and Marquesas. And then let's see. Big Brian Heidegger. Heirs after Big Brother 3. So, so. So, like, I'd never really been like super disappointed by Survivor. I was happy with the Dr. Will. When this was the first time. The first time that one of these shows really broke my heart.

[01:16:43] [SPEAKER_05] Because I was really, really wanted. I really wanted Jason and Danielle to get to the end together. And it felt like that's what like, that's just what like, you know, you watch scripted shows. That's what happens. You get what you want all the time, pretty much. And this was this. This happened. I was like, no. What? Yeah. No, that's not what's supposed to happen. Right. It's not supposed to be out in three. What? After everything they did.

[01:17:10] [SPEAKER_02] Oh. Oh. At least you got to feel it this time. Because from, it will happen billions of other times, right? Where like the story is telling you this is supposed to happen. And then, especially in Big Brother. Especially in Big Brother where, you know, a dice roll can throw you out of the game sometimes. I agree. This was very disappointing. This is why Big Brother 3 is not my favorite season of Big Brother. Because to me, the win condition for Danielle and Jason is what we're following the entire time. Danielle and Jason from pretty much week one or two.

[01:17:38] [SPEAKER_02] We're like, they have to make it to the end so they win. Like, that is, they're even talking about it like that. Like, I'm going to the end with Jason. It doesn't matter what else happens here. That is what I, and I don't mind losing him. They're very upfront about it. Today, we're like, you should be playing to win the game. Back then, we're like, no. They are playing to get there together as a tandem. The moment Jason goes up, whether Danielle wins or loses, it still feels like, it still feels like you just, you don't quite get the closing book on the story. It still feels wrong.

[01:18:05] [SPEAKER_05] If you watch it today, it still feels like a weird, like, alternate version of history that we got trapped in.

[01:18:10] [SPEAKER_02] Right. Because you would think Danielle lost because she was sitting next to the more likable Jason who did the same strategy. You know, like the Cody and Derek of it all. You know, something like that. It's like, nah, they got taken out of the third party. You know, and it's like, bruh, you know, it's so hard. Jason played such a good game, and I think it's understated. I think in the Big Brother community, we have all come around. You know, I think Danielle was like the face of the Alliance for a very long time. But I think that now in modern days, people will talk about this Alliance as it was very much a partnership. Danielle could not have done what she had done without Jason.

[01:18:40] [SPEAKER_02] And she will go on and say that for years and years and years. Every time someone's like, Danielle, will you play Big Brother again after BB7? And she's like, not if Jason's not there. I'm like, girl, stop saying that. Stop saying that. They're not going to let you and Jason back in the house together. And if they do, they're going to make sure one of y'all is not around anymore.

[01:18:54] [SPEAKER_05] Jason does actually get the invite to All-Stars. He just turned it down.

[01:18:58] [SPEAKER_02] Which is crazy.

[01:19:00] Yeah.

[01:19:01] [SPEAKER_05] Which is crazy. What are you going to do? What are you going to do? Jason also, I believe, the first player to go on the show having seen live feeds. He was a live feeder in Big Brother 2. He was like a fan. He was like ready to go. He came in with the idea for a secret alliance. And like really sneaky under the radar. Like very much a strategy head.

[01:19:30] [SPEAKER_05] And also just like the nicest guy. So like, I mean, such a fun player. And, you know, I think rightfully now is recognized for his contributions to the history of the show.

[01:19:42] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, I think so. One of the greatest that never went. You know, people will give that title to somebody else. But they were a tandem. Very much so. And she outlasted him by one competition. And yeah, your question is valid. Does Jason beat Lisa? I would love to hear your opinion.

[01:19:59] [SPEAKER_05] I mean, let's take a look at the votes real quick. So Jason gets Danielle. I would honestly assume that Jason gets Amy. Marcellus, no.

[01:20:13] [SPEAKER_02] Nope.

[01:20:15] [SPEAKER_05] Roddy, no.

[01:20:16] [SPEAKER_02] No.

[01:20:18] [SPEAKER_05] Kiara, no. Yeah, I think Roddy goes Lisa. Yeah. Kiara goes Roddy. And Josh is too. And so does Josh. I could see Jerry. I'm not sure. I think Jerry could go.

[01:20:31] [SPEAKER_02] But a lot of people didn't break rank even against Danielle. You know, like we saw Josh.

[01:20:35] [SPEAKER_05] But it was easy to not break against Danielle. But yeah, I mean, there's a good chance Lisa wins anyway. Yeah. But Jason definitely has a much better chance.

[01:20:48] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. To me, they're dragging the biggest jury threat to the end. And it's crazy. You know, but they don't know that. They don't. They don't. Well, I don't think they don't know that. They just don't see a world where she's not sitting. She's sitting there like that. Just it's not a possibility to them because it's going to be the two of them or nothing.

[01:21:01] [SPEAKER_05] And also, like, remember, like, Lisa was the one that was shunned by the Alliance. She was the one that they grabbed because she was left on the curb. And so they were like, well, they don't even like Lisa that much. Yeah. Right? Like, and Lisa betrayed them multiple times as well. Uh, it's just that like her betrayal felt a little more justified because they did shun her. And I think in many ways they wanted to make up for the fact that they had done so. Um, and that's something that they didn't really see coming.

[01:21:31] [SPEAKER_05] But like, also, like, if you think about what happened in the previous season with Nicole, who was part of the majority Alliance and then betrayed them to take Will, you'd sort of like, you'd sort of see like, oh, maybe that's what happened again. Like, maybe Lisa, like Nicole, was portrayed in the edit because the jury was not sequestered. They were watching the show. Maybe Lisa, like Nicole, was portrayed in the edit as somebody who was betraying her allies in order to take somebody unlikable to the end, just like Nicole did with Will. And it made her look really bad.

[01:22:00] [SPEAKER_05] And, um, and so like, you could totally see why there are still some ideas in your head about like why they would have still had a good chance. Um, but, uh, no, what really mattered was that multi-layered strategy thing I talked about. Um, nobody ever really broke rank on that. Like, uh, in Big Brother 2, there was a similar kind of thing happening, but like Nicole was just too blatantly double dealing.

[01:22:29] [SPEAKER_05] Um, and, and Will was honest about what he was doing in the diary room. And, and, and Danielle was honest about what she was doing in the diary room as well. But like, Will was not only honest in the diary room, he would tell people to their face, I'm lying to you. Yeah. Um, and so that really helped his case amongst other things for Danielle. It was not going to be enough.

[01:22:50] [SPEAKER_02] My queen.

[01:22:52] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah.

[01:22:53] [SPEAKER_02] I mean, what else can we say, man? This is a strategic mastermind. I don't care what nobody says. She, she just moves the game the way that her and Jason needs it to happen. Her and Jason are working a masterclass here throughout. She's willing and dealing to the, into the bitter end, you know, and that the final three HOH, she takes her hand off the key, but she's like, Lisa, you got to take me. And then she throws the second part to Jason. Cause she's like, I can't cut Lisa. You know, I'd be a bad person if I cut Lisa. Oh my God. Jason could cut her. Shoot. Then I'll go with Jason.

[01:23:22] [SPEAKER_02] Like, uh, she was doing everything she could, but watching it back, knowing that she knows that she's going to lose to Lisa. Like she's a weirdo. Yeah. See, that's the thing. And I, and I know that the larger, uh, population of big brother fandom will always say, well, the jury wasn't sequestered. That's why she lost. But she knew that she would, y'all didn't get to the final two thinking she won and everybody be like, man, we saw the tapes.

[01:23:44] [SPEAKER_05] And also, yeah, for what it's worth, she's on record saying this as well. Like she likely loses with or without the sequestering.

[01:23:51] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. And she's taking Jason to the end to lose to him too. So it's kind of like, Hey, it's, it's very clear to me. Like she knows she goes and tells Lisa in the final two, Lisa, like she, they cut Jason. She goes over to Lisa. Hey, I've been bad. Lisa like what? She said, yeah, yeah, girls. I just got to tell you something kind of evil. And she's like, what is going on? I hate this is the craziest moment. But Danielle kind of like, I guess you should know because they about to kill me.

[01:24:20] [SPEAKER_02] You know, like she knows she's about to go into the firing squad.

[01:24:22] [SPEAKER_05] Well, what's funny is that Lisa, after hearing about everything that Danielle was doing was like, oh, I'm an idiot. I just lost. I just took the doctor will. Right. And I just, they're about to praise her up and down. I'm stupid for taking her. She's done so much that I had no idea about. I'm, I'm terrible compared to her there. I'm going to lose. And then they get to the, to the questioning and she's like, well, oh, nevermind.

[01:24:51] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. She's like, oh, okay. Cause the question is very much like, well, my favorite question of course is Roddy. Yeah. How bad was the peanut butter? Roddy, you shut up. You shut. See, this is exactly. I was like, I wanted to jump through the screen. Cause I was like, you know what you did. You know what you did. You can't keep getting away with this.

[01:25:08] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, right. You can't keep getting away with this. He's whipped them all up into a fervor. They're all going after. And then he gets the plausible diability. Listen, I'm just reinforcing what I've already built before.

[01:25:18] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

[01:25:18] [SPEAKER_05] I never said anything. Right.

[01:25:21] [SPEAKER_02] He just, he just sent them all together. And it was like, Hey Daniel, it's Roddy, your boy. How bad was the peanut butter? She's like, I hated the peanut butter, Roddy. And I know in the background she's like, how does he keep getting away with this?

[01:25:35] [SPEAKER_05] It's somehow worse. That question than if he had been like direct, you know what I mean?

[01:25:39] [SPEAKER_02] It's the best big brother question of all time, because it was like the words coming out of his mouth. That's what everybody's been saying. The words coming out of his mouth don't mean anything because it was.

[01:25:49] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. He was very much like a Danielle. I want you to know it was me.

[01:25:54] [SPEAKER_02] Exactly. Exactly. He could have said, Danielle, the sky is blue. And she would have been like, God damn it. Cause you got me again. Like it's, Oh, the worst thing Roddy could have done in that moment. We've been like, Danielle, I'm disappointing you. Because it would have been like, yes, Roddy, we know, but he couldn't even take his mask off. He was just like, nah, I'll keep it light. I love him. I love him. He's awful. He's just awful, but I love him. I love him so much. Oh my God.

[01:26:19] [SPEAKER_05] It's really, it's really like, it's, it's so heartbreaking and frustrating to watch because I mean, by the end of it, Danielle's in tears. Um, Jason is, is like, just going like a beggar going up to people like, please, please, you have to, she did good. Uh, and Marcella's, I can't even sit next to you right now.

[01:26:43] [SPEAKER_02] Like gets up and moves, you know, like literally gets up and like Marcella's comped. Everybody stop. Everybody just stop. Can we think about the things that this lady did? Y'all were not aligned with her. She found an ally who would align with her and then she went up against Roddy all season and did, it made y'all do her bidding and talked about it. She knew what she was doing. She had a strategy. She outlined a strategy and she executed the strategy almost to the very end until she lost Jason.

[01:27:09] [SPEAKER_02] Everything was going perfectly and to take, and the words of Josh, to punish Danielle for what she did in the game is to not understand big brother. And that just sits with me forever because Josh didn't even vote for her.

[01:27:22] [SPEAKER_05] Crazy.

[01:27:23] Yeah.

[01:27:23] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. Um, never nominated. Never nominated. A record that stands the test of time. Uh, nine to one jury vote. The most lopsided jury vote in the history of the show. Uh, quite a while. Um, so, uh, ultimately Lisa is going to win here. Um, and you know, like I think the, the sentiment has gone up and down on Lisa. I think for a long time there was, there's kind of this, like, like Lisa didn't deserve to win.

[01:27:53] [SPEAKER_05] Lisa wasn't a good player. Then it kind of like rebounded. It was like, well, Lisa actually did pretty good. Um, and I feel like it's settled probably to where it should be, which is like, you know, Lisa had some strengths and she really came into her own. Um, you know, what is she the best winner? Um, but like she, she has a very fascinating character arc. Uh, she really starts to understand the game and play.

[01:28:17] [SPEAKER_05] And, and it's really fun to watch her go from sort of like, uh, you know, doe eyed sort of showmance, uh, focused to, uh, to like, okay, now my eyes are open, but my mouth is shut. And I'm going to be playing this game really hard. Um, and ultimately comes away with a win and, and, and, you know, a deserved win. Um, you know, did she play better than Danielle or Jason? No, but you know, she earned that win by going through what she did in that, in that house and, and playing the way that she did.

[01:28:46] [SPEAKER_05] Um, and so, uh, you know, good stuff from Lisa.

[01:28:51] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. Yeah. I remember when the sentiment changed on Lisa, cause as a Danielle purist, I w I was always kind of like, Danielle lost his game. Whether you come up with it, whatever excuse. And I was like, yep, Danielle lost the game because of y'all made y'all made this up. Like she was robbed. I stand on Danielle was robbed, but to say Lisa didn't deserve to win would be crazy because again, she's sitting next to two people. She is in the final three with two people. She can beat matter of fact, the final four with people she can beat. Matter of fact, the final five with people she can beat. Okay.

[01:29:18] [SPEAKER_02] Like this lady is the walking jury threat and they can't do anything about it. They did their bigger fish to fry or, you know, they haven't found a reason to get her out. And it's just beneficial to her because her ally, you know, the person she was aligned closely with has been gone for weeks, you know? So I was like, she's not walking around the big threat that everybody else is. And she's learned to kind of be quiet, to not be so explosive. Cause there's definitely moments where Lisa like, no, I need to pop off. And Danielle's like, Hey, Hey, no, so now don't go out there. Just listen, just listen at the door. You know?

[01:29:47] [SPEAKER_02] So she learned, she learns the game of big brother. And I think we all are at this time. Right. So I can't fault her for coming in and being like, well, she didn't know what she was doing, but then about halfway through, she figured it out. It was like, yeah, but who, who did? It's not from Danielle and Jason. Most people were still like, now, how does this veto thing work? You know, what exactly can we do here? Should the good people win? Should the bad people win? Should the jury be able to see this? We're still asking the question. So Lisa did what was in front of her and she did great. If she was less likable, she'd have been Amy. And so, um, you know, here she is the winner of big brother three.

[01:30:18] [SPEAKER_02] Danielle was robbed. And I said that shit.

[01:30:21] [SPEAKER_05] Okay. Chappelle that, that leads us to a very difficult question. It ain't that hard. Who are the three people on the cover, on the DVD cover of the poster for big brother three? Because from my perspective, I have like five candidates. Ooh. Okay. You say one, then I'll say one, then you say one. Well, there's the two obvious is Danielle. And I'll say Jason.

[01:30:49] [SPEAKER_05] But then it gets tricky because you have your winner, Lisa, as a candidate.

[01:30:55] [SPEAKER_02] No. I said it. I said it. Cause there's a better option. Chappelle vetoes Lisa. There's a better option on the board, baby. Then you have superstar Marcellus. I'm a stop you right there. I think that Marcellus and his lack, his, his emotion throughout the season, his drama throughout the season and him not using the veto is way bigger, way bigger than anything that Lisa is able to pull off.

[01:31:25] [SPEAKER_02] I think people remember that Danielle lost this season and they don't remember to who sometimes, but you will never forget. Marcellus didn't use the veto on himself. I'm sorry. Put that man on the poster. Put him on the DVD cover. The buck stops here as far as I'm concerned.

[01:31:38] [SPEAKER_05] I, I can't say I disagree with you, but I could also see the argument for the fifth candidate. I think Roddy such a big presence. Look at all the season.

[01:31:47] [SPEAKER_02] Taryn step, snap out of it. Taryn, please come back. He's doing it to you too. He's doing it to you.

[01:31:53] [SPEAKER_05] Listen, here's, here's what, here's what I really think the poster should be. It should be Danielle, Jason and Marcellus with Roddy in like the background.

[01:32:02] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. Like looming over them like this.

[01:32:04] [SPEAKER_05] In like a red, in like a red mist surrounding him. Right. Like overlooking everything.

[01:32:09] [SPEAKER_02] Straight into the corner like this, looking down on the, on the three subjects. It's like, oh, this man. No. Roddy can be, he's done enough. Taryn, hasn't he done enough?

[01:32:20] [SPEAKER_05] I think he is too forgotten in, in the history of the, in the history of big brother. I think that Roddy is such a fascinating character. Somebody who was, who is like the, the biggest, you know, presence aside from Daniel and Jason strategically in the game. Um, and, uh, and kind of, you know, maybe rightfully so maybe this is like the revenge that the big brother fandom got on Roddy, which was like, you're going to do that to Danielle.

[01:32:48] [SPEAKER_05] Then we're going to forget you to time. Um, and, uh, and maybe that's, maybe that's why he's not on the poster. Uh, but, um, but you know, I, I think there's a case to be made.

[01:33:00] [SPEAKER_02] I think he is the quintessential, like he's the face of the bitter jury, right? Cause people always look at big brother three is like, this is a bitter jury. The jury went home. They saw what these people said and said, absolutely not. I am not going to vote for Danielle. And like we said, it probably, she probably would have lost without that. But it's just the fact that, you know, that they're all sitting around looking at her game and being like, dang, she did that. But also being like, and I cannot reward it because I don't like it. I don't like it. And Roddy gets to sit there and ask them about peanut butter.

[01:33:31] [SPEAKER_05] All right. Well, uh, ultimately this is going to be up to you guys. Uh, the survey is up. Uh, Rob has a website.com slash BB retrospective. Um, and, uh, that's where you can find the survey. Uh, and you can, you can let us know who are the top three people. Uh, the survey will be up for another, you know, maybe like, uh, uh, 20 minutes. Uh, if you're watching live, uh, for this, for this one, then we're going to change it

[01:33:57] [SPEAKER_05] for next week's podcast about big brother for the X factor.

[01:34:04] [SPEAKER_02] Hmm. I'm so excited to hear that podcast. I love big brother for, um, like I told you, this is when I was diving deep into big brother world, uh, these first five, six seasons and, uh, big brother four was just so fun to watch, but also like if you could, if you can get your hold on some clips from the feeds, you know, the, there's some masterful work being done there by a couple of two iconic players. And I just can't wait to hear y'all talk about it.

[01:34:28] [SPEAKER_05] All right. Uh, anything else from big brother three Chappelle?

[01:34:33] [SPEAKER_02] No, I think we talked it to death. Uh, great cast, great season. Um, not the best season. Cause I feel like just that lack of that, that rewarding winner just isn't there again. No disrespect to Lisa. She did what she needed to do, but I feel like the story just feels like it's a little incomplete. Uh, and so, uh, yeah, I loved it. And I thoroughly enjoyed talking to you about it.

[01:34:56] [SPEAKER_05] All right. Well, thank you for joining me Chappelle. Thank you for joining me. Uh, everyone who is here, uh, either live or after the fact, um, no, again, we'll be back next week to talk about big brother four, which should be a lot of fun. Um, and, uh, and we don't think, thank you all for, uh, for, you know, sticking around with this retrospective. We will continue our journey through time, uh, and maybe not space cause we're sticking in the same house for now. Uh, but eventually space as well.

[01:35:24] [SPEAKER_05] Uh, so thank you all for joining us and I will see all of you next time.

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