Big Brother 2: A Weekly Big Brother Season Retrospective

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back to RHAP. I'm your host, Aaron Armstrong, and we are here in the off-season of Big Brother to talk through the history, the 25-year history of the show. And we are in our second week of our retrospective series to talk about Big Brother 2. And with me to talk about the second season, really, really the first real season of Big Brother in the US, it's Mari. How you doing, Mari?

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Taryn. I am so happy to be here to start off technically kind of ish the Big Brother retrospective. This is so fun. It's sad that we have a long off-season with BB can, but we're gonna make the most of it, you know?

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_03]: We are indeed. We are here live on a Thursday night. This is around the time we will be doing this every week. And last week we talked about Big Brother 1, and I know that that's not exactly the most popular season of the year.

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Of the show. Though I will say, there were some responses to that podcast that were like, hey, I thought it was good. I thought it was fun. So we found those people.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know her. I don't know Big Brother 1. This is where it started. This is where the magic happens.

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_03]: It is indeed. Well, one of the things we are going to be doing across the 25 weeks leading into Big Brother 27 is that every week we are going to show off our latest DVD cover slash poster of each season according to the audience's vote of who they think should be on the cover of the DVD for this season.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_03]: So what I did was there was a survey out. And the survey is, if I'm remembering the URL correctly, something along the lines of robisawebsite.com slash big brother retrospective and or BB retrospective.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Sam is going to let me know BB retrospective.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yay. Sounds right to me.

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, quick, quick note. Uh, we originally titled this podcast, the memory wall. Uh, somebody came up with it. We're like, oh, that's a good idea. Memory wall. Um, it turns out there's another podcast series called the memory wall by one Sharon Tharp. So, uh, we are now rebranding to just listen.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_03]: This is what we, this is what we get when you try to be fancy with names. We're just going to call it the retrospective. This is the retrospective series.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Getting retro. Yeah.

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. Retro. Indeed. Um, so I did have the survey out. Uh, you can still vote in the survey. Here's what's, here's what's happening for the survey. The survey this week was for both big brother one and big brother two.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, this is the only week that's going to happen. Um, the survey is going to close down for big brother two. And then, uh, next week we will show you the results and the poster that will be made for, uh, after we get the results in.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_03]: So you still have time. If you want to vote for big brother two throughout this podcast, I'll close it after the podcast and reopen it for big brother three in the lead up to that season, uh, season's podcast.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So, um, in the meantime, I did put out a question because Rob was curious. He said, what do you think the percentage is of people that have watched big brother one? Um, and, and I was like, well, this is, it matters. Are we talking at all or to completion?

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I asked both questions, Mari. I'm curious. What do you think the percentage was from our audience? The people that took our audience to take this poll?

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_03]: How many people do you think saw any of big brother one? How many people do you think saw the entirety of big brother one?

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I will say that 35% saw a little bit of big brother one, but we have some diehards and I'll say about 47% saw the entire series.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_03]: You think more people completed it than watched any of it?

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, because honestly we're in for a penny in for a pound.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I see what you're saying, but I imagine. Okay. Yeah, no, no, that's fine.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Terry's like, you're wrong.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I, to your credit, you didn't know how the questions were structured, but anybody that saw the entirety would certainly say yes to seeing any of it also.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. I, I, you know what?

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I see. I see math.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not math.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Ultimately you said around 40, 45% you said?

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, there we go. Let's say 45. Yeah.

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Have you seen any episodes of big brother one?

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_03]: 64% said yes.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_03]: They have seen some amount of big brother one.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a pretty decent amount of people that have seen some of it.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Now the next question, have you seen the entirety of big brother one?

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_02]: 38% said yes.

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Look at that.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_03]: About 60, about, let's just, we'll, we'll call it two thirds and one third, right?

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, the, the, the survey taking audience did watch some of big brother one.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And then half of those people managed to finish.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly in line with the ratings for big brother.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Congratulations.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_00]: There you go.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_00]: See, our audience is on the pulse.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: We're on the pulse of the big brother.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Me, not so much, but we are on the pulse.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_00]: It's okay.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Listen, I was off.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I said 20% tops would have completed it and it was nearly double that.

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think Rob was a bit closer.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_03]: So here's what we did as well.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_03]: We put out the poll and we will talk about big brother two very shortly, but we want to,

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_03]: we want to do some home, uh, do some wrap up here.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, some, some catch up here.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, the three people on the poster on the DVD cover for big brother one.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I would ask you who they are, but I have already shown you the poster a little bit.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, the answer, um, but here it is.

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to show it to all of you.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Now here's the poster.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Boom.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Boom.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_03]: That is the big brother season one DVD cover.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Chicken George.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Number one on the board.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Can I, can I guess the other two people never seeing season one and only going off what little

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_00]: clips I know of the chef?

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Please.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Who are they?

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Was this the lady who had turned down like $10,000 or something?

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh no, no, wait, no.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_00]: She was going to come into the house and somebody had to get $10,000 to come out of the house.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I just remember them saying no to a lot of money.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_03]: They said no to $50,000.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_03]: If one of them had taken the deal to leave the house and be replaced with a new contestant,

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_03]: they would have received $50,000.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_03]: She was not that person.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, Mari, she's worth much more than $50,000.

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_03]: She is now a billionaire.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Wait, what?

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_03]: We talked about this last week.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_03]: She sold her company, It Cosmetics, for something like $2 billion after her time on Big Brother.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Jamie Kern.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I know that name.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Listen, if she doesn't do that, I don't know if she's on this poster.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I think the audience was a little biased.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_03]: For billionaires.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I know.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I know that name.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I remember.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_00]: All righty.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, is that Eddie?

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know who that other man is.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to assume it's the winner because I know Chicken George didn't win.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_03]: That is, in fact, the winner, Eddie McGee.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So Chicken George actually was the top voted person, but it was very close.

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_03]: It was 89% of all responders included Chicken George in their top three.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Only 88% included Eddie McGee.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_03]: So Chicken George gets the top spot.

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Eddie there in second place.

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Then down at 27% for Jamie.

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_03]: So big drop off.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_03]: The big two main characters of the season were Eddie and Chicken George here.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I will say, fourth place, not too far off, Will Mega, which is the person I suggested should be on the poster.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry to this man.

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know this man.

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's that's it for Big Brother one.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_03]: We don't need to talk anymore about Big Brother one.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_03]: There's the poster.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I could even I could probably show you there's an even more DVD cover ask version of it.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_03]: There it is.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a little too close.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait till you guys get to the season four cover because I distinctly remember that one like as a kid, because I remember staring at it in the store and be like, I remember that you work with her ex.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And for the kids in the chat DVD or what we used to watch movies and TV on.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I got y'all covered.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_03]: So let's talk about Big Brother to Mari.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_03]: You requested Big Brother to.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I requested all Big Brother seasons except for some specific ones.

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, feel free to guess in the chat if you want to guess which ones I said no to.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love Big Brother.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I live and breathe it.

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I discovered Big Brother and BB5.

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And once I watched BB5, I went back and watched not one, two, three and four.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And I probably rewatched all of the like two, three, four, five, six, seven.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And those ones at least four times, at least rewatched them.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I rewatched them like annually when I get sick type thing.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, so I love early Big Brother because I used to love the actual social ramifications of Big Brother and the conversations that Big Brother like really used to like invite for us to have before it got a little cartoony.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm very excited.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you guys so much.

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Shout out to Salmon Production for letting me talk about BB2 today.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Big Brother 2.

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_03]: It was the first season we talked a bit about this last week.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_03]: It was the first season run by the duo of Arnold Shapiro and Allison Grodner, who had come over from Rescue 911.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Arnold Shapiro famous for his Scared Straight documentary.

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_03]: A respected documentarian coming over to do some reality TV.

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And they had some fun things to do to change up the format.

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_03]: They also worked with one Lisa Levinson, who is now famous for her work on The Bachelor as sort of like the if you watched.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I believe she was a character in the that that Bachelor fictionalized Bachelor show.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Unreal. Unreal.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Unreal.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I believe she's a character on Unreal.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Love that show.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_03]: So there is, you know, there's a lot that the producers are doing here to change up the formula.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Primarily, it's now a game amongst the players.

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, I think that we are sometimes a little overly harsh to the original format of Big Brother by not calling it a game at all.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Because it is it is a game.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just a very different game.

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, the game is that you're playing up to the audience.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, that game kind of sucks.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_03]: We thought in the US.

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_03]: We immediately voted out Will Mega.

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, he was the most entertaining person on that cast.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_03]: So I in Big Brother to audience does not have a say.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_03]: That's what Survivor taught them.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I'd feel I'd felt, you know, Richard Hatch certainly would have been voted out by America.

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Will Kirby definitely would have been voted out by America early on.

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And so additionally, we got some rambunctious cast members and and all kinds of fun stuff to talk about.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_03]: So let's let's let's pull up a slideshow here.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Here's here's Julie Chen back in the days of of Big Brother to the original Bob.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And and here's our cast, the Big Brother to cast the first people to really play Big Brother as we know it today.

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Minus, of course, the veto.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. Yes.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, to see it's going to be so, so much fun over these next few weeks, really going through the evolution of Big Brother.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And this starting with this one where we take the power out of America's hands.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_00]: We introduce challenges, specifically the HOH challenge.

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And then from there, you the HOH nominates two people.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_00]: But unlike our current iteration of BB, there is no veto.

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_00]: There is no saving.

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Like once you are on that block, the only thing that can save you is your social ability.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So Big Brother is the fact that Big Brother, too, is kind of so far from the format that we have now, but is still very, very rewatchable, very tone setting.

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of firsts occurs in this season just shows you how good of like the bones that this that this show had and that they really did a good job of building upon it as it went along.

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you might have lost our way there in the modern era.

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, some of these first initial changes were just really well done.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, let me just give a quick general recap of of of the season and how sort of it played out, because basically these these players,

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_03]: as you see them on the screen here, they came into the season and very quickly they divided into two distinct teams.

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_03]: There was Chill Town on one side and they had a few different names, but I preferred top,

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_03]: a.k.a. the other people on the other side.

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Chill Town named after the chilly room that they were in.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And Chill Town was kind of like the young, attractive, kind of cool kids.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Cool kids.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_03]: It was it was Justin.

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_03]: It was Will.

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_03]: It was Shannon.

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Mike Boogie.

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Throw Krista in there a bit.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And you had that kind of crew.

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Boogie wins the first HOH.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And and he wants to take out Nicole because Nicole is very annoying.

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_03]: But but turns out, Nicole, she's got some fight in her.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_03]: She's going to campaign.

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_03]: She survives the block.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_03]: The very first person to really like overturn of votes in the very first nominations.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And that sends the sort of hot mom Cheryl out the door.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_03]: She was being used as pawn and that kind of kickstarts the whole season.

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Chill Town gets decimated from there as Nicole and Hardy really win the majority of the HOHs this season for as good as the competitions are for most of Shapiro's reign, especially.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_03]: This was perhaps one of the more lopsided seasons in terms of competition wins.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_03]: But but ultimately, Chill Town is going to sort of dwindle away as Will slithers his way through the game and makes it to the end because he's hated because he's throwing competitions because he's not good at competitions and and and ultimately wins against Nicole.

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_03]: People felt she was too sort of hypocritical and annoying ultimately for having brought Will all the way to the end after vowing that he would never make it that far.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_03]: So that's kind of like the basics of how Big Brother 2 played out.

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_03]: But there are lots of little interesting things along the way worth mentioning.

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Taryn, this season had the first alliance Chill Town, the first showmance in Dr. Will and Shannon, the first situation where the pawn goes home on the very first HOHs noms.

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_00]: There's an HOH mutiny where the people don't go with what the HOH says.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_00]: The pawn goes home.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_00]: This is where the pawn goes home, like basically originally started.

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's just amazing.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it's like, is it because it's just the first season?

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_00]: But no, this cast really delivered because it could have it could have gone the way that we've seen so many seasons go where the HOH, especially when there's no other competition to save to save the person.

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_00]: He could have put both of them up and done and everybody could have done what Mike said, but they didn't.

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_00]: They went against the grain.

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_00]: They formed a counter alliance.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, this is what made people fall in love with Big Brother.

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And it starts off from the very first week and it keeps going week after week after week.

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Cheryl, the first victim of pawns go home.

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And who knows what Cheryl might have been in the game if not for Mike Boogie's plan to pawn her on the block.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_03]: But ultimately, a victim, not actually the first person out of the season, though.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_03]: So that was Justin, who was ejected from the game because he held a knife up to Krista's throat and asked her if she would be mad if he killed her.

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Tara, when I watched that, I was like, oh, my gosh.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I can't imagine.

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't on Feeds then.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I already said that.

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I cannot imagine what anybody would have been thinking watching that moment.

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_00]: It is just if you haven't seen that moment, it's chilling because it's like it's so weird.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It's so casual.

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, how would you like if I killed you with his weird thingy or whatever?

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And then it's like then they have they ejected us.

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And then he's like, why are you ejecting me?

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't do it.

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my God.

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_00]: It was so that moment is so weird.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It's so creepy.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It's so cringy.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And this was after he had just he had just gotten to a fight.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Like previously he was fighting.

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_00]: He was in a fight with Kent, I believe.

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_00]: He was very.

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_00]: What's the word?

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_00]: He had a lot of outbursts in the in the in the short time that Justin was there.

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_00]: He had a lot of scary moments and a lot of scary outbursts.

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So that even though at that point, the nice thing was him playing.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_00]: It was after a whole bunch of other very scary moments.

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_00]: So I thought it was it was only right that they did eject him.

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_00]: But that was that was a wild moment to watch.

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was also wild.

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I believe this is the only time they ever do this.

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_03]: But after ejecting him, he sits down with Julie for an interview.

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And basically is is pretty unapologetic.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_00]: He really was.

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_00]: He was like, I asked that.

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't do it.

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like.

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_00]: OK, sorry.

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Weird.

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_03]: So ever since Justin.

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Plastic knives and definitely less alcohol.

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Really, really less alcohol now.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So which is great, which is good.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Better than, you know, just.

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Listen, honestly, I know people complain about it to some degree.

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, if you hear about the ways that alcohol is used on other reality shows, like it's pretty it's pretty bad stuff.

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_03]: So, like, it's kind of a good thing that they are not actively trying to apply them with alcohol and create situations like this.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I agree.

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I completely agree.

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's at this point in Big Brother is like it's such a they're like alcohol delivery.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_00]: It's such like a fun night.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_00]: It's always like just fun.

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It's never like too much anymore.

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_03]: The next person out was Autumn.

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Left on Krista's HOH.

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, what's interesting about that is that obviously we look at we look toward Big Brother 4 for the first kind of real successful floating strategy.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_03]: But and we'll talk about this perhaps a bit more when we get to Krista.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_03]: But Krista's HOH was sort of a response to Mike Boogie's.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Mike Boogie planted a flag.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_03]: He said, I'm Team Chill Town and I'm against anybody that's with Nicole.

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And then they revolted.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And Mike Boogie was on the back foot.

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_03]: He got lucky that Krista won this HOH because a lot of other people might have been targeting him.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And so Krista, though, who was a bit of Team Chill Town player, was like, I don't want to get in trouble.

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want the house to revolt against me.

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_03]: What if I just try to please the house as much as possible?

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I'm not going to like go after Chill Town.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_03]: They're still my allies, but also not going to go after like top.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_03]: So Autumn is just kind of like an easy person to take out.

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll have the least amount of people mad at me if I do this.

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And sort of ironically, she makes kind of both sides a bit mad at her.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, it was an attempt at something that would eventually become floating.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_03]: But a key to floating is that you're not often in the position to have to choose a side in the first place.

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. It's the the original I don't want blood on my hand strategy that backfires.

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And Autumn is the victim of it here in Easy Out.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_03]: She is really like the victim of some some nasty bullying by Shannon and and stuff like that.

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_03]: But again, you know, we talked about it a little bit last week, but the the amount of bad stuff happening in the house,

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_03]: especially like, listen, there's enough bad stuff that still happens.

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_03]: But it definitely was pretty prominent back then.

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. The the amount of fights they got in in just the first two weeks, again,

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_00]: was really crazy because Chill Town and their faction were the younger people.

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_00]: They were seen as the more like bold and outrageous people.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the other people, the older people were, you know, did not just did not mesh well with them.

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And Autumn and Shannon just they they were they would fight.

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's smoking. Everybody's smoking.

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, what is happening?

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just so much.

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And I felt bad for I did feel bad for Autumn.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_00]: But it was unfortunate.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_00]: She just didn't she didn't have any allies like, you know, I'm saying like she was an easy, easy person to target for Krista.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. And this is, of course, the week when Dr.

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Will is going to do his fast.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_03]: That it's one of those things.

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_03]: It's it's one of those things.

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_03]: The fast, I think, is an interesting sort of litmus test for like how deeply you sort of like watch Big Brother,

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_03]: because, you know, like when I was a kid, probably I was like, wow, he got them to do that.

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_03]: But then if you watch it closely, you realize, no, he didn't get them to do it.

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_02]: He tried to get them to do it.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And pretty much everyone said no.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And he spun that to the audience is like, ha, that's exactly what I wanted.

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I wanted them to not do it.

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And that has shown me how weak willed they are.

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, exactly.

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's so funny because like after rewatching Big Brother 2, I don't know, maybe on my third go round, I had really realized because it's not a part of the narrative as much as in BB3.

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, in BB3, we're all like Danielle lost because the jury wasn't sequestered.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we talk about enough how much Will played to the jury through the show.

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And how he played to the audience.

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I always knew he played to the audience, but I forgot how much that he really like spun the narrative and basically talked to the jury through the show.

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_00]: It's really fascinating to go back and watch because like he said, like everybody's like, we're not fasting.

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Like genuinely, I think that Will's the thing that Will is the most talented at more than anything, more than the game itself is being a character and and the way that he conducts his diary room sessions.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And this is something that he picked up on pretty quickly.

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_03]: It did take him, I think, a week or two in until he finally started to like recognize what they were looking for from him and what he could do.

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_03]: But once he got rolling, he just fully understood how to be the right character.

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And that was the thing is that even when things didn't go well for him in the game, he was always able to spin it in the diary room like it was all according to plan.

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Like he had everything under control.

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And some people try to do that still to this day.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And it just doesn't really work most of the time.

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_03]: It's hard to to really get one over on the audience in the way that Will is able to.

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_03]: But the combination of his charisma and and the way that he's able to see how things can be edited, I think just works.

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'd be curious to see a version of Dr. Will where the producers are not on his side because, oh, boy, they can probably make him look foolish.

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_03]: But but he also knew to to woo over the producers themselves because that was a huge part of it.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And so so here it is.

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Autumn is out here in week two.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And that brings us to Shannon, who is out in week three at Hardy's hands.

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, she did not appreciate that.

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_03]: She decided that his toothbrush was going to take a spin in the toilet.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_00]: When I tell you it's so funny, like thinking back to like my pre Big Brother watching days, for some reason, I always knew about Big Brother things happening even before I watched the Shannon toothbrush thing for for people who might not have been there.

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_00]: That was on like entertainment news.

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_00]: It was on like MTV countdowns for TV moments and stuff like that.

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Like Shannon using Hardy's toothbrush to clean the toilet was like it was a thing.

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_00]: It was like a cultural like happening.

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Like they told people who weren't watching the show that was bonkers.

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I remember I remember my mom being like, what show do they have?

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_00]: They're letting people use toilet brushes, toothbrush, toilet, toilet brushes.

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_00]: It was, oh my gosh.

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So crazy.

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_03]: It was one of her last big, you know.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Went out with a bang.

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_00]: She went out with a bang.

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Bad things that she did.

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, it was wild.

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Like in an alliance with Mike Boogie, and we know where he ends up, and Dr. Will, she was the most wild.

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And the person that they decided they needed to target over the other two.

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Over the other two.

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_00]: The person that everybody liked the least.

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And how do you feel?

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So we were already talking about how Dr. Will spins things.

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Do we think he did actively like try and push Shannon to get her to, you know, so basically get voted out for him?

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Because we do see her say that she thinks he has a better shot.

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So she wants to go out.

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I have seen that narrative.

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, it's worth pointing out that I actually recently did a Twitch stream where I ranked the seasons based on live feed viewing enjoyment only.

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, okay.

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And in that, I talked about how I can't really speak on two through five, essentially.

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I did not watch the live feeds at the time.

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I was quite young.

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Probably not appropriate, yeah.

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_03]: So I can't really speak to that.

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I have gone back and looked through archives, updates, stuff like that.

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Big Brother 2 coverage is spotty.

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_03]: But you can see a good amount.

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_03]: So I say this with some amount of like caveats there.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_03]: But from my perspective, you know, did Will encourage Shannon to like blow up and, you know, like be voted out over him?

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't really feel like that was the case.

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Especially when you watch the episodes and like, you know, he has this moment where he's like, hey, I'm willing to go home for you.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_03]: And like, yeah, sure, maybe he's playing her there.

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_03]: But I feel like it's genuine enough.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like he has like a moment of weakness there.

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think in general, like, given what Shannon had already been doing, the things that she did to Autumn, you know, like stuff like that.

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I just I feel like Shannon was just going to be Shannon.

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think I'm sure that at some point during the week, Will was like, oh, I guess, you know, I'm probably going to stay because of what she's doing.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm happy about that.

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_03]: But but I don't think that Will necessarily was doing anything that was going to like guarantee his safety this week by encouraging Shannon to do whatever.

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I agree. Shannon.

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Great care.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's move on then to our next victim.

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Hardy is going to give the H.O.H. over to Kent.

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Kent and Kent is going to take his shot at Mike Boogie and Mike Boogie is going to the wrapping is finally going to be over.

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my God.

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I so going back as an older adult and rewatching this pre pre jail, still before he went to jail.

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I realize how cringy he was in season two.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I maybe he was less cringy at the time.

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no.

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Because because I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure the way I did my rewatch, I saw seven before I saw two.

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Now I think about it, I'm pretty sure because I watch five, watch six, watch seven.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm pretty sure I work my way backwards.

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Four, three, two.

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm I'm sure I had I had the he does better than seven.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And so when I went back and watched two originally, I was like, oh, this is Mike.

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_00]: But then going back and watching it again as an adult, I was like, oh, no.

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Like the the the proposal with Krista, everything.

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_00]: He just feels so inauthentic when you go back and you watch him.

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_00]: The wrapping was cringe, of course.

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_00]: But this was you guys, this was peak swim shady.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_00]: So I can see what Taryn means by like at the time that what that wasn't the cringe part.

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_00]: At the time, the the cringe part to me, you could just tell how over the top he was like Will was playing to the cameras, but Will just had the charisma to pull off playing to the cameras.

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Mike was playing to the cameras and it just came off slimy.

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And they say it in the the house.

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_00]: That's why he goes out before Will.

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_00]: They talk about how how how Mike they don't like they don't like living with Mike with Boogie, you know.

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_03]: So this really works out for Will because Shannon was just more of a firecracker than he was.

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_03]: So Shannon goes out.

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Then it's Boogie and Krista that are together.

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And so you got to take one of them out before you go after Will.

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's really how Will survives the whittling down of Chiltown.

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I often think about Big Brother, too, especially when, you know, I feel like a common refrain in the world of reality television and oftentimes even in Big Brother is like casting these days.

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's just a bunch of wannabe influencers, people who just are trying to get famous.

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's go back to the old days when it was just regular people who were just being on the show for the sake of it.

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And like whenever I hear that, the first person I think of is Mike Boogie.

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's just like Mike Boogie and quite frankly, Will Kirby.

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Most of Chiltown and how like, guys, this has always been the thing.

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Reality TV has always preyed upon people who want fame in the Netherlands when they made the show.

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Part of their advertising for the casting was we will make you famous.

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_02]: It was always part of the deal.

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And when Mike Boogie and Will Kirby were on this show, they absolutely played up to the cameras because they thought that it was going to make them famous.

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And after they got out of the house, they tried to be famous people, you know, to varying success.

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just like, you know, different shades of playing up to the cameras.

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you like them or not is really the main thing here.

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And there's no greater example of this than Mike Boogie, who really gets on there and is just playing a character to such a degree.

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I love that you're saying this because it's true.

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_00]: As long as there's reality TV, there's always people who are going to be on it in order to further their career in the entertainment business.

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Like.

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_00]: That's it.

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Like Will said, that's reality.

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_03]: That is reality.

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's move on to our next evicted player.

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_03]: After Kent takes out Mike Boogie, plot twist.

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Hardy wins HOH again and takes out Kent.

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And this is this is Will's kind of first big survival.

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Because it was supposed to be Will.

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_03]: He was the final member of Chill Town remaining.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, you were supposed to go all the way down.

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_03]: But instead, they decide to start infighting before they finish off the remainder of Chill Town.

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And Kent is the first victim of that.

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, Kent has since passed away.

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, and, uh, that is very sad.

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Though his time on Big Brother, uh, you know, I think was very much so the kind of storyline that they were trying to do, which is the same thing that they did with, uh, Richard Hatch and Rudy.

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, which is like, hey, here's a homophobic guy who's going to befriend the gay guy.

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and I, I believe they stumbled onto that in Survivor.

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I think they were actively trying to get conflict on Survivor.

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And then, oh, wow.

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_03]: It turned out to be even better.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I don't know if they were trying to do, uh, uh, Richard and Rudy or if they were just going for like, oh, it'll be fun to watch a homophobe be mean to a gay guy.

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, but what they got was, uh, Kent and, uh, and, and, um, uh, Bunky, uh, becoming friends, um, and, you know, doing, doing that whole thing.

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, so, you know, I don't really know, uh, where Kent went with all of those thoughts and feelings after the show.

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I did not, uh, I, I did not follow up with him after the fact, but he definitely said some not nice things, uh, especially in the beginning of the season.

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Kent.

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, this is when the reality TV gets real.

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_00]: When you sit, when, when I said, you know, big brother used to show us society, like this is, this was that again, like Terrence said, it was a little manufactured, but Kent had some views that he expressed in the house.

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they, they spin it.

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, oh, his, maybe his views have loosened up a little bit, you know?

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but my thought process about Kent more was the, the, the conflict from this week.

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_00]: How did he end up becoming the target, you know, with Hardy and how Will was able to maximize the four weeks that he had prior.

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, to go from, you know, the obvious target, like he says, make the target so big.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm in, I'm in plain sight to then flipping it to be like, but you know what?

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to get rid of me.

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_00]: The next person will get rid of me.

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Like this is, like you said, this was the metamorphosis of Will's game.

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to have to talk about BB two through Will's eyes, not just because he's a winner, but because it, the season flowed through him, you know, production made sure of it.

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah.

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And, and I, I would say, you know, we don't often talk about it like this, but I would say that this is Will's best week in the house.

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I think this is Will's like defining move because it's really just, it's one, one real big move that happens.

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And then the rest kind of falls from there.

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and, uh, and this is the move and, and the cleverness of it is that Will makes a deal with Kent the week before to stay off the block.

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and, you know, play up the fact that, Hey, you can bring me to the end.

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm hated.

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, and so, so Kent nominates Boogie and Krista to take out Boogie instead of Boogie and Will.

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and then the following week when Hardy is HOH, he's able to just kind of be like, well, yeah, I made a deal with Kent.

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and Hardy's like, Kent is trying to take Will to the end because Will's hated.

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Kent is, is, is, you know, double dealing.

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, maybe I don't deal with Will yet.

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe I deal with Kent who's got Bunky on his side.

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Will has nobody.

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and so with that one kind of, he makes a deal on one hand and then makes a deal on the other hand.

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, the people who are making the deals with him are the ones getting in trouble because they all know who he is and what he is.

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and that's really the, the downfall of Kent.

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And then with Kent falls Bunky because now Bunky's mad.

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, right.

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Like you went after Kent and now you just kind of have to finish Kent off and take out Bunky, who is the fact, in fact, the next, uh, person.

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, and then, and then from there, it's just like, well, Hey, Monica, Hardy and Nicole are together.

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_03]: You can't take out me over them.

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, like it's pretty, it's pretty simple math from there.

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_03]: So, um, it's, this is really the week I think that will, uh, you know, solidifies his win on top of like the correct competition outcomes in the coming.

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like Monica winning that final four.

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, so, uh, so yes, big week for Will and bad week for Kent.

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. Yeah.

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I, and I love, I love that Will would make so many deals because he had no intention of upholding them.

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And because there's only one competition, he can throw it and never have to, uh, live up to his side of the deal.

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's making it with these people who are out loud being like, well, if I say, if I give you my word, I'm going to mean it, you know?

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So they have to follow through and he never does.

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. Also vitally, uh, this season again, no veto, uh, as you said.

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_03]: So, um, so what that means is that like the will game can be very, very dangerous because he's on the block a decent amount of times.

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and what happens if, you know, they decide they want to vote him out, that would be bad.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_03]: But worse than that, if there's a veto, what happens if the person, that one person that they wanted to target over will happens if that person wins the veto.

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_03]: That's where a lot of potential wills go home.

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, because if it's will versus Shannon and Shannon wins the veto, that's it.

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Will's legacy done in week three, right?

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_03]: If it's will versus Kent and Kent wins the veto, do they take out Bunky over will maybe, uh, but it's less clear, right?

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, if it's, you know, boogie versus Krista and boogie wins the veto, um, you know, like there's, there's all kinds of stuff that could happen that could really impact where, uh, where will falls in that, uh, in that structure.

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_03]: But the way that this game is structured, the way that he chooses to play this particular game really, really works.

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and we see that in the next week, uh, I actually apologize.

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't Bunky that went next.

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_03]: It was Krista before Bunky, um, because Nicole wins and takes out Krista, uh, Krista, who, uh, again, had been trying to like sort of play all sides.

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_03]: We get to this portion of the season where, um, you know, again, like the first, I would say four weeks are dedicated to the eradication of chill town, uh, revolting against them in week one.

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, um, Krista sort of appeasing them, but they're still the enemies in week two, week three out goes Shannon week four out goes boogie week five.

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Hardy takes the shot at Kent and the game starts to become more about who are the good people.

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Because now that chill town is all but gone and we have chosen to not take out chill town, but instead take out somebody else.

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, like who has the moral high ground now?

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, who is, who is really the underhanded ones in all of this?

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, and Krista is one of those people that ever since her HOH reign, they've always seen her as sort of like, you're trying to play all sides.

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, like you're not, you're not choosing a side.

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, you're trying to be good with everyone, uh, so on and so forth.

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And so, uh, so Krista is ultimately going to be the, uh, the victim here will again is going to survive having made his deal with Hardy and Nicole after they took out Kent.

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and so, uh, that is going to be it for Krista who, you know, has many legacies in big brother, including her attempt, I would say at floating or, uh, accepted proposal from Mike boogie.

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, I guess being on the other end of Justin's knife.

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And, and then saying all that, but to me, she really did like, it's like, she went to sleep after her HOH.

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_00]: She really did try to just stand back and not make waves.

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And like you said, Taryn, sometimes in big brother, their, their corner turns and it's like, well, let's go after those.

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go after the floaters, grab a leg base.

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, um, yeah, it's sad because right.

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_00]: It was right.

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_00]: It was right when she was starting to finally start thinking strategically that they clip her, um, rightfully so.

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And really, I do think one of the more actively strategic people on big brother too.

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I, I always, I've always kind of felt like it was a missed opportunity to not have her back.

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, because she was one of the people who just like kind of instantly was trying to play the game in a way that a lot of other people were still pretty slow to it.

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, and I, and I appreciated that about Krista.

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, but then it was in fact Bunky that, uh, that went out, uh, Hardy, Nicole, and then Hardy again, when HOH, um, and Hardy takes out a good old Bunky known for his crying on the show.

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_03]: That was a lot of his edit was lots of crying.

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_03]: He was crying during evictions and, uh, other, other things prior Bunky.

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_00]: He, and this is the point he goes out because he's too good.

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, you know, at this point he would beat the rest of the, uh, the other four people in there.

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So, and it's like, so, so it's this, this, this switch that flips.

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, so now people are being, trying to be more self-interest while not looking more self-interested.

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is why Will is able to, in a roundabout way, end up being the sincere one because he told us from the beginning, he said, I'm going to lie to you.

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be evil.

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_00]: You can call me the evil doctor.

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So we expect that from Will, but we don't like this mental gymnastic that everybody else is trying to do to justify their bad deeds.

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And, and honestly, I think that's why a lot of big brother fans love this season other than just Dr. Will winning.

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just that the people who thought they were good and righteous got their comeuppance for it, you know?

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's, that's the thing, right?

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Like everyone saw it.

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_03]: That was like part of why it worked was that it wasn't a secret.

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Like Dr. Will wasn't secretly telling people like, oh, take me to the end and you might beat me.

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, he was yelling it from the rooftops.

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Everyone knew.

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And again, this is, I always equate Will to the devil on your shoulder.

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_03]: That's how he played the game.

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_03]: It was appeal to your self-interest.

[00:47:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And then as you get corrupted, uh, like you get punished for it more than I do because I've always been upfront about my corruption.

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And so when he makes the deal with Kent, yeah, then Kent is now corrupted and he needs to go.

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and when he gets into people's ears about like, Hey, you know, you could go to the end with Hardy.

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_03]: You could go to the end with Monica, Nicole, Bunky.

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you feel like you definitely win?

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, or do you feel like you would win against me?

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And nobody's willing to admit that they're thinking about it.

[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Like nobody's willing to say like, oh yeah, I'll take Will.

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_03]: They're all like, no, no, we wouldn't do that.

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_03]: That's, that's a morally wrong thing to do.

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Will doesn't deserve to be there.

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and, but they're, but they're all kind of like keeping their options open.

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_03]: They're all kind of like, well, we'll keep him around another.

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, obviously we're not going to take him to the end.

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And so by the time he ends up getting taken to the end, everyone else who didn't end up doing it, even though they might have, gets to be like, I would never have done that.

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_03]: How could you, Nicole?

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and so, uh, which is very different than what happened to, uh, to Danielle and, and, and Big Brother three, which we'll of course talk about.

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_03]: But like, Big Brother three, it was kind of the opposite.

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_03]: It was kind of like, well, nobody's lying, right?

[00:49:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Nobody's lying.

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Nobody should be lying.

[00:49:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and then when Danielle is like, yeah, I got here and I lied.

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_03]: People are like, ah, bad.

[00:49:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, so, uh, Will did the opposite.

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_03]: He corrupted everyone else around.

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Better the devil you know.

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_00]: That better the devil, you know.

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody loves getting stabbed in the front, not the back.

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'd rather not be stabbed at all, to be honest.

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, well, Taryn, that's not an option.

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, then Monica wins the HOH in, uh, the final four and sends out Hardy.

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_03]: This was a big, this is a big one.

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, Hardy was supposed to win.

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Like he was the guy, right?

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, uh, if you were watching from home.

[00:50:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Like Hardy, he was, uh, he was super popular.

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_03]: He was super attractive.

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, like, uh, he, you know, I mean, he certainly had the advantage of being a man as opposed

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_03]: to Nicole when it came to perception and playing the game.

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, he certainly had his own, uh, fair share of like hypocrisy in terms of getting dirty,

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_03]: his hands dirty, but wasn't punished for it nearly as much as Nicole was.

[00:50:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, and probably still would have won the game had he made it down to the end.

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, also the first, you know, big comp beast of, uh, of the show with his three HOHs.

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, uh, and so, you know, he had to go.

[00:50:43] [SPEAKER_00]: It's astounding to me that he had three chances to get rid of Will.

[00:50:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, it was like, they're like, well, he put Will on the block.

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:50:53] [SPEAKER_00]: It was like, it was like, it was appeased because he put Will on the block each one of

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_00]: those times, but he would then end up targeting the other person, uh, which is how he, he was

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_00]: able to slither out of that.

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand to me.

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Hardy is Hardy is both the, the villain and the hero of the season.

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Like he, he's the one who's spouting all of this.

[00:51:13] [SPEAKER_00]: We have to get rid of all of them.

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_00]: We are the good people, but he doesn't do it when he has the chance.

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So when he ends up leaving at the hands of Will in such a poetic way, he's, he's pissed.

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, do you have a right to be, you know?

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And he was the, he was the one to me when I watch who, who would be the most self-righteous,

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_00]: but again, would like do stuff like take the money when he's, when he's offering money

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_00]: and stuff like that.

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And, and just be the one to like spin his deeds and try and not look self-interested.

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So, but he is, that is a fine man.

[00:51:48] [SPEAKER_00]: He has aged really well.

[00:51:50] [SPEAKER_03]: He has.

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_00]: But other than that, like Hardy was such a great character.

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_00]: He was such casting did a great job of putting him on this season to be like the anti-will.

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It was like, they found Will.

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, we found our Superman.

[00:52:04] [SPEAKER_00]: We have to find our Lex Luthor.

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Like they, they really did.

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I felt like they, they had to cast them like that intentionally.

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I did do a Taron show interview with, with Hardy.

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Jeez.

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_03]: That was like almost seven years ago now.

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it was like 2018.

[00:52:24] Oh my gosh.

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, if you want, I was going to say, if you want an update on where Hardy is, but I guess

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_03]: that was a little while ago now.

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_00]: You want to.

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Then of course, uh, we get to the final three and, um, and that's when, uh, something much

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_03]: bigger than the game happens.

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, because 9-11 happens, um, and rocks the world.

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, certainly the world of, uh, American culture.

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and, uh, we talked about this in the big brother to block humanory, but like there

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_03]: was a real sort of shift in how people saw reality television as a whole.

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and there was a campaign to shut the show down.

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, like really?

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, like send these people home.

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_03]: They should be with their families.

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, like this is a stupid frivolous thing that we shouldn't be, uh, focusing on anymore.

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Like bigger things are happening.

[00:53:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, shut this thing down.

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and there was a lot of debate about what to do from, uh, amongst the producers.

[00:53:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Should, like, should they tell the house guests?

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_03]: How should they tell them?

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_03]: What should they allow them to do?

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Should they send them home?

[00:53:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Should, like, what should happen?

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, ultimately, uh, they did, uh, inform the contestants.

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, but for a while they were, they were some of the only people that did not know the full

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_03]: extent of what was happening.

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I believe that, uh, at the time they were kind of just speculating because all of a sudden

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_03]: they were noticing no planes were flying overhead anymore.

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and they were like, what?

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Something must have happened with planes, I guess.

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, and they were eventually told Monica's cousin was missing in the, uh, in the World Trade

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Center.

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, later it was confirmed that she, uh, she passed away in, uh, in, in the Twin Towers.

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and, uh, and so this was like, it was very, uh, it was very, uh, it was very,

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_03]: very relevant to, uh, to, to her in particular.

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, they do eventually tell them, uh, Monica, they, they allow them to talk to their families.

[00:54:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Monica says in the episode, um, Hey, you know, you, you do your thing.

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to do mine.

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to be fine.

[00:54:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, like I'm going to play this out.

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, unfortunately for Monica, this was, uh, the end for her game, uh, as Nicole wins

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_03]: that final HOH and sends Monica out.

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, but, uh, but oh boy, I mean, what, what a journey for Monica.

[00:55:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah.

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Just needed to win that final HOH and Monica is the winner of big brother too.

[00:55:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And not only that, like her being able to win the final four HOH, uh, you know, winning the

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_00]: final four HOH going through the nine 11 attacks, you know, being taught, uh, told about them

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_00]: and then, um, going out third, but still be having the grace and the beauty and just like

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_00]: being able to handle herself after being that close.

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_00]: She was, she's such, um, an inspirational person.

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and you know, um, she, that's why she was shouted out in Davon's Davon speech.

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Like Monica really was one of those people who was so dynamic throughout season two and

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_00]: she really represented four black women so well.

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And really, I think, um, let people into her, her life in a moment that is devastating.

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And for her to have been, to been such a huge part of the community and for the community

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_00]: to appreciate her, uh, to this day, you know, I'm glad, I'm glad she, she saw that, you know?

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And in like, again, like just like the, what she almost was able to accomplish and what

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_03]: she did really accomplish, but like she was almost there at a win.

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to take another, like over 20 years for a black player to win big brother.

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And she was there at the very start, just one HOH away.

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and, and that's, that's huge.

[00:56:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is.

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, uh, yeah.

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So many feelings.

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Love Monica.

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, uh, she does not win that HOH.

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Nicole does.

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and, uh, she is going to take Will to the end.

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Little does she know, it doesn't matter who she takes to the end at this point.

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_03]: She is, she is already lost.

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, in fact, I think she probably lost.

[00:57:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Man, she probably loses to Hardy.

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_03]: She probably loses to Bunky.

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_03]: She probably loses.

[00:57:22] [SPEAKER_03]: She, Krista, maybe.

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll see about Chris.

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like Krista might beat her too.

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe Kent.

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe she, maybe she beats Kent.

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I still am so confused as to why Nicole got the, the, the bitch label.

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Like watching me watching.

[00:57:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I loved Nicole's gameplay.

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I, I loved it.

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It was so, to me, it was very, it was very strategic.

[00:57:45] [SPEAKER_00]: It was, um, it was very strategic.

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Some might say snaky.

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, but I didn't, I didn't find it too, too snaky.

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, and it just goes back to that early 2000s misogyny.

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Where, where it's like, if women do the same things that men do, it, they get punished

[00:58:07] [SPEAKER_00]: more for it.

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, at least that's what it seemed to me.

[00:58:12] [SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's the, um, uh, Wigglesworth of it all too.

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's just, I just don't understand why, why women who get to the end half that

[00:58:22] [SPEAKER_00]: like, it's like, they always get that label.

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_00]: They always get, oh, she's a bitch label and we can't give her the money.

[00:58:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, we're so mad at you for taking Will to the end.

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And we hate Will in his final speech, but we're still going to give the money to Will.

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just, I don't know.

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that like, this also goes back to what we were talking about before about

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_03]: like, uh, showmanship and, you know, being there for the fame because Nicole is, is really

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_03]: the other side of the coin that, that Will was on.

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Like Will was there to be famous and he was there to put on a show.

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, Nicole was there as just like a person.

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I think it was her husband that was like a fan of these kinds of shows and she just

[00:59:06] [SPEAKER_03]: kind of got on and had no idea what she was in for.

[00:59:10] [SPEAKER_03]: She was just being herself all the time.

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Genuine Nicole.

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Whereas Will was a character.

[00:59:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and the character played better.

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, not because like, uh, not necessarily because, um, you know, a character just plays better,

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_03]: but the character was the one that people wanted to root for.

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_03]: She was herself.

[00:59:29] [SPEAKER_03]: She worked for television.

[00:59:30] [SPEAKER_03]: She just worked as a villain for the audience.

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and, and Will was certainly a villain as well, but, but in a different way.

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_00]: A fun villain.

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:59:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, like people loved to sort of like hate Nicole, um, and, and sort of like recognize

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_03]: in her some of the things that maybe they recognize in themselves.

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Whereas Will is just this sort of fantasy character, uh, that doesn't exist in real life.

[00:59:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and, uh, and so, uh, you know, she really gets punished for that.

[00:59:59] [SPEAKER_03]: She really, I, I really do think like she didn't know, know what she was getting into.

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And, and I do think that there is a world where like, if this jury is, is sequestered, um,

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_03]: and you don't have the diary room and edit narrative painting Will in a certain way and

[01:00:15] [SPEAKER_03]: painting her in a certain other way.

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I could see, I could see her beating Will in the final two.

[01:00:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.

[01:00:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, but that was not this game.

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And that was, uh, and, and, and Will's strength was those diary rooms.

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_03]: So, uh, it was just never going to work out for her in the way that it did.

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, you know, her using diary rooms as a genuine confessional and him using diary rooms as a,

[01:00:38] [SPEAKER_03]: uh, you know, myself, um, and so, uh, it, it was just a whole host of things.

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but, uh, but yeah, it's W in the chat says hot tub stuff.

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_00]: What?

[01:00:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember the hot tub stuff.

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_03]: So, uh, this was, uh, one of the controversies that was happening was that, um, you know,

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Will was, was often flirting with Nicole and so, uh, and Nicole was married.

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And so, uh, there was a lot of speculation about like how into it is she.

[01:01:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and, uh, of course, Will has, was already a bit of a homewrecker because Shannon also had

[01:01:18] [SPEAKER_03]: a boyfriend, um, prior to, yeah.

[01:01:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and then, uh, in the hot tub, there was some, uh, speculation that perhaps some nefarious,

[01:01:31] [SPEAKER_03]: uh, things had gone on.

[01:01:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and, uh, and her husband decided to fly a banner plane over the house.

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Gross.

[01:01:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, uh, I don't forget exactly what it said, but it basically was like, uh, like you, uh,

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_03]: you're bad.

[01:01:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:01:49] [SPEAKER_00]: First ever banner plane.

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I forgot.

[01:01:52] [SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't the first.

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Let me tell you, there were a lot of banner plans, but, uh, yeah.

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_00]: In season one.

[01:01:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Very impactful banner plan.

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Were there a lot of banner planes in season one?

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah.

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Lots of banner planes.

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_00]: That's funny.

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know that.

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, so I mean, that was another part of it too, right?

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Where it's like, uh, you know, if you, if you were already inclined to not particularly

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_03]: care for women acting a certain way, then you certainly weren't inclined to, uh, be

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_03]: even remotely, uh, sympathetic to a woman who was, uh, not respecting her husband.

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I do.

[01:02:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I do.

[01:02:29] [SPEAKER_03]: The way that you think that she might've.

[01:02:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Her seeing the plane and being very upset.

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I re I remember that now.

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God.

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Listen, this is genuinely like, this was, this is one of those examples of like, this,

[01:02:43] [SPEAKER_03]: the show feels like it's gone a little too far with the call.

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Like she is, um, a mess by the end and not, not in like a fun way, not in like a, like,

[01:02:53] [SPEAKER_03]: uh, you know, even like pity her way in a way that's like, she should not have been put

[01:02:57] [SPEAKER_03]: in that situation.

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and, and sort of like in without so much guidance, again, not really understanding

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_03]: or knowing, I think what she was getting herself into.

[01:03:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I think this is not really a situation that most people go through nowadays because

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_03]: you kind of do have a much better understanding of what you're getting into in reality television.

[01:03:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Now it's such a, it feels like maybe for me to say that she didn't know what she was

[01:03:20] [SPEAKER_03]: going to do, but like, cause, cause probably a lot of people listening to this have grown

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_03]: up with reality television, just being a thing with big brother.

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And even if you didn't, you've, you've lived in this world for the last 25 years, but like

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_03]: this was still very fresh.

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and, uh, a lot of the, the most damaging things that reality television did happened

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_03]: in those early days when they didn't know what they were doing and the contestants didn't

[01:03:45] [SPEAKER_03]: know what they were doing.

[01:03:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And, and I do think that Nicole was really done dirty by, by really every side of, of

[01:03:51] [SPEAKER_03]: this.

[01:03:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_00]: You are completely right on that.

[01:03:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that of course means Dr.

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Will Kirby, the first winner of big brother, the, the game that we know of now, uh, just,

[01:04:12] [SPEAKER_03]: just circuitry and wires, uh, Dr.

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Will.

[01:04:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and you know, for, for as much as, you know, like, uh, there are other ways the season

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_03]: could have gone.

[01:04:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And as much as Nicole has done dirty and as much as like Monica was so close and it was

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_03]: just like Hardy was like the guy, Dr.

[01:04:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Will Kirby does feel like the most fitting winner of this first season of the show.

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, the perfect encapsulation of what they were trying to achieve with this new version.

[01:04:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, somebody who approached the game, uh, compartmentalizing, uh, is sort of like his real

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_03]: self versus like his game self playing hard, lying to people being cutthroats, stabbing them

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_03]: in the back, talking about bathing in their blood, um, and, and putting on a show and really

[01:05:07] [SPEAKER_03]: like proving to the world, uh, just like Richard Hatch had done before him that like, uh, this

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_03]: is why you should watch, uh, this show that, uh, you know, sometimes the villain will win.

[01:05:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and, uh, and he leaves a mark like for, for years after this, people, people think

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_03]: and say like, we're not going to let there be another Dr.

[01:05:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Will, uh, and they're on the hunt for who's, who's the next Dr.

[01:05:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Will, who's, who's trying to be another will.

[01:05:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and they don't want to let Will win.

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, you could say to some degree that Lisa's win after this, uh, is a response to

[01:05:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Will's win in the same way that, uh, Tina's win was a response to Richard's in survivor.

[01:05:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, but, uh, it really just sets the tone and, um, and I think not only proves to the

[01:06:01] [SPEAKER_03]: audience, but proves to the producers that this is what they should be hoping to achieve

[01:06:06] [SPEAKER_03]: is players like Will playing the game hard.

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_03]: That's, what's going to make this show work.

[01:06:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, not only in the short term, but I think more importantly, the longterm, because that's

[01:06:16] [SPEAKER_03]: the real test of a reality show.

[01:06:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Because we know it, we know of it now, but he did it back then.

[01:06:23] [SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's shifting reality TV.

[01:06:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's shifting.

[01:06:28] [SPEAKER_00]: It's creating an archetype.

[01:06:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It's leaving your mark on the game.

[01:06:32] [SPEAKER_00]: He, he literally left his stamp on the game to the point where, like you said, the players

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_00]: are looking for a next Dr.

[01:06:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Will, but more importantly, production is looking for the next Dr.

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Will.

[01:06:42] [SPEAKER_00]: That's how, you know, somebody really leaves a stamp on a show.

[01:06:45] [SPEAKER_00]: It's when they're, they're trying to cast that next one.

[01:06:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And we, you know, when they're trying to cast the next Derek's, like we, we always see them

[01:06:52] [SPEAKER_00]: trying to cast the next Derek's, the next Dan's.

[01:06:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And I've gone so far and said it on other podcasts.

[01:06:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Tyler from this past season.

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the name, right?

[01:07:04] [SPEAKER_00]: It's in and out.

[01:07:06] [SPEAKER_00]: The guy, Laurie, Laurie, yeah.

[01:07:08] [SPEAKER_00]: With the French name.

[01:07:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Tyler, right?

[01:07:11] [SPEAKER_03]: From which season?

[01:07:12] [SPEAKER_00]: What's his name?

[01:07:13] [SPEAKER_00]: The most recent one.

[01:07:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I said Tyler.

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_03]: The most recent season.

[01:07:19] [SPEAKER_00]: The guy that everybody loves.

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody loves him.

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Tucker.

[01:07:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Tucker.

[01:07:25] [SPEAKER_00]: There we go.

[01:07:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Tucker.

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, Tyler.

[01:07:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Tyler too, though.

[01:07:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Tyler too.

[01:07:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Tyler.

[01:07:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But also Tucker.

[01:07:38] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's people that they, they, they leave a mark on the game.

[01:07:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And Dr.

[01:07:43] [SPEAKER_03]: They certainly left a mark on you, Mari.

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I, I never professed to be a Tucker fan.

[01:07:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So.

[01:07:50] [SPEAKER_00]: You too, Taryn.

[01:07:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh boy.

[01:08:00] [SPEAKER_00]: They leave marks, these people.

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, of course, this is not the end for Dr.

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Will.

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_03]: He will be back.

[01:08:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And, and relevant to the, to all of this is still going to be back.

[01:08:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, Will Kirby has made his return to reality television, um, on Dondi, uh, deal or no deal

[01:08:24] [SPEAKER_03]: island.

[01:08:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I can tell you, I watched the first episode expecting Dr.

[01:08:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Will to be there.

[01:08:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, he wasn't.

[01:08:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_03]: He wasn't in the first episode.

[01:08:37] [SPEAKER_03]: That's weird.

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_03]: He's apparently going to be in the next episode, uh, and, and, and actually joined the game

[01:08:43] [SPEAKER_03]: proper.

[01:08:43] [SPEAKER_03]: But like, I was like, what the, what was going on?

[01:08:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, uh, I, my impression of that show is that it's, it's fine.

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, it's, uh, you know, it's, it's literally got like poverty on it.

[01:08:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, that's if poverty wasn't on this, I'm not sure what it would offer me here,

[01:09:00] [SPEAKER_03]: but, uh, I'm, I'm excited to see what, uh, what Dr. Will has to offer here on, uh, on

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Dondi now, uh, 25 years, uh, or I guess 24 years, uh, after his original, uh, run on

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Big Brother 2.

[01:09:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:09:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:09:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Dr. Will is such a big personality.

[01:09:21] [SPEAKER_00]: He's been on so many reality TV shows.

[01:09:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I, I, I used to love watching him on, uh, Dr. 90210, I believe on E, he, he had his

[01:09:29] [SPEAKER_03]: own, like, he had some.

[01:09:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I remember, I remember because like, I would try to like, be like, Oh, Dr.

[01:09:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Will on TV.

[01:09:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I've got to watch it.

[01:09:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I would like watch a thing and be like, what?

[01:09:44] No.

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Cause like, I think, cause I mean, you know, Dr.

[01:09:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Will inspires Rob Sesternino, uh, you know, Dan Giesling, uh, Eric's like lots of people

[01:09:58] [SPEAKER_03]: inspired by Dr.

[01:09:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Will to go on, play the game and do their own thing.

[01:10:02] [SPEAKER_03]: He inspired me when I was a kid to, you know, to continue to watch the show and, uh, to sort

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_03]: of like fall in love with these kinds of games.

[01:10:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, but, uh, you know, it's, he's, uh, then, then you see him on like other things and you're

[01:10:18] [SPEAKER_03]: like, maybe, you know, maybe I just like him on the big brother.

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:10:24] [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, I just feel like that's, that's his place.

[01:10:30] [SPEAKER_03]: The doctor stuff.

[01:10:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I could take or leave it.

[01:10:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I want you on reality TV.

[01:10:34] [SPEAKER_03]: This is your strength.

[01:10:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Who needs to be a doctor?

[01:10:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Doctor who what?

[01:10:39] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[01:10:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, all right.

[01:10:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, uh, Mari, what else?

[01:10:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Anything else about big brother too?

[01:10:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess, you know what we should do?

[01:10:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, there's a little bit of time left on the survey who should be on the poster for big

[01:10:58] [SPEAKER_03]: brother too.

[01:10:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Who are, who are the three?

[01:11:00] [SPEAKER_03]: What would, what would you, if you could choose who are the three people on the big

[01:11:04] [SPEAKER_03]: brother too poster?

[01:11:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, Dr.

[01:11:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Will front and center.

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Very big.

[01:11:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I personally would put Nicole up there.

[01:11:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I, I thought I really liked her game.

[01:11:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I, I liked watching her.

[01:11:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I know that's hot take or whatever.

[01:11:20] [SPEAKER_00]: That third spot is kind of hard though, to me.

[01:11:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, because you could do a Monica and just round out the top three, or you could do a

[01:11:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Bunky.

[01:11:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Cause I think Bunky was such an amazing character for the time as well.

[01:11:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, you know, having, having a gay man on there, open up, be able to connect

[01:11:44] [SPEAKER_00]: with the homophobe of his season.

[01:11:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And what's very touching, but then Bunky getting like, remember he got shredded as the season

[01:11:52] [SPEAKER_00]: went along and stuff like that.

[01:11:55] [SPEAKER_00]: That it was so cool.

[01:11:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think, yeah, I think I would, I would definitely go with Bunky.

[01:11:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Bunky was, was so fun.

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I could see Bunky.

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I could also see the argument for Monica and I could see the argument for Hardy.

[01:12:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I think, uh, I think that there, I think you're right.

[01:12:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I think the top two is pretty locked in.

[01:12:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's will.

[01:12:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's Nicole.

[01:12:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I think you put Hardy on there.

[01:12:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Those were the three real like players of the game.

[01:12:22] [SPEAKER_03]: They really like the three of them made almost every decision, uh, in one way or another.

[01:12:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, you could put Monica.

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_03]: It's the final three.

[01:12:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I think Monica, um, like you put Will there because he's like on one side of the house.

[01:12:35] [SPEAKER_03]: You put Nicole there.

[01:12:36] [SPEAKER_03]: She's on another side of the house.

[01:12:37] [SPEAKER_03]: You put Monica there because she's kind of like that third party.

[01:12:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and, and sort of like, you know, rounds out that, uh, that, that, that poster.

[01:12:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and then I think you can put Bunky there because he also kind of was like a third party

[01:12:52] [SPEAKER_03]: to that, uh, to that main power struggle.

[01:12:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, it was like him and Kent.

[01:12:56] [SPEAKER_03]: So, um, you know, I think that it really depends on what you're going for.

[01:13:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Cause I think it, I think it depends on the season.

[01:13:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes you want like a representative from each set of side or alliance.

[01:13:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes you don't want to like go all in necessarily.

[01:13:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I'll be very curious to see what happens with like a season six.

[01:13:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, Oh God, put them all on there.

[01:13:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Go to war again, fans.

[01:13:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like do the, like the, the civil war, uh, style, uh, poster.

[01:13:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I think if I had to choose, I think that final three is just such an iconic one.

[01:13:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I think, I think I probably go will Nicole Monica, uh, they're in the house for so long

[01:13:35] [SPEAKER_03]: together.

[01:13:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that like, when you remember that season, you really remember the final three,

[01:13:40] [SPEAKER_03]: what they went through together.

[01:13:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and so I do think that's a pretty good representative sample of, uh, of the season.

[01:13:47] [SPEAKER_03]: But I, again, I could definitely see the argument for Hardy or for, uh, for Bunky.

[01:13:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, you could technically make a case for Boogie, uh, but not because of season two, because

[01:14:00] [SPEAKER_03]: of season seven.

[01:14:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and I think that alone is kind of, is a bit disqualifying.

[01:14:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, because like, yes, for big brother one, chicken George is on the front cover.

[01:14:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Is he, is he top spot?

[01:14:13] [SPEAKER_02]: If he doesn't come back for all stars, you might tell me, and I think that's probably fair.

[01:14:19] [SPEAKER_03]: But chicken George is genuinely one of the biggest characters on that season.

[01:14:24] [SPEAKER_03]: If not the biggest character of that season, uh, between his controversies of, you know,

[01:14:29] [SPEAKER_03]: his family trying to organize campaign for him to stay and campaign against other people

[01:14:34] [SPEAKER_03]: between his, uh, attempted revolts against the producers, uh, getting people to walk out

[01:14:40] [SPEAKER_03]: of the game.

[01:14:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, like there's, you can still see it.

[01:14:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Boogie.

[01:14:46] [SPEAKER_03]: When we talked about like, okay, Boogie in season seven, how you remembered Boogie.

[01:14:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I was nine years old when I watched big brother too.

[01:14:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I was, let's see, big brother all-stars was what?

[01:14:57] [SPEAKER_03]: 2006.

[01:14:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like 14.

[01:14:59] [SPEAKER_03]: It was five years later.

[01:15:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I was 14 when I watched all-stars.

[01:15:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I did not know who Boogie was at 14, five years later.

[01:15:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:15:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it was, it's a long time.

[01:15:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:15:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, and, and I wasn't rewatching seasons.

[01:15:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I wasn't deep in like message board discussions at the time.

[01:15:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I forgot about the guy.

[01:15:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, like I remember Dr.

[01:15:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Will.

[01:15:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I remembered Nicole.

[01:15:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I remembered Monica.

[01:15:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I did not remember Boogie.

[01:15:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[01:15:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that makes sense.

[01:15:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[01:15:32] [SPEAKER_00]: That makes sense.

[01:15:35] [SPEAKER_03]: So, uh, so yeah, I don't think I would personally, uh, have Boogie there, um, for season two.

[01:15:41] [SPEAKER_03]: You could make an argument for season seven.

[01:15:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe we'll get there.

[01:15:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, but then you also have the thing of like, uh, you know, how much do you account for recent events?

[01:15:51] [SPEAKER_03]: So.

[01:15:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[01:15:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:15:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, all right.

[01:15:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Anything else, Mari, that, uh, you want to bring up from season two?

[01:16:00] [SPEAKER_00]: No, this is so fun.

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Taryn.

[01:16:03] [SPEAKER_00]: If y'all haven't check out the black documentary, the black documentary was how I like, it was one of the first real big RHAP, um, listens that I did.

[01:16:14] [SPEAKER_00]: It was right.

[01:16:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Y'all started recording it right around the time I became a, like a patron and a listener of RHAP.

[01:16:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And it made me go back and watch big brother too.

[01:16:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Again, when I was at, that adult time, I told you I watched and I was like, this doesn't curl all the way over from what I remember.

[01:16:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but yeah.

[01:16:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So, uh, yeah.

[01:16:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for having me.

[01:16:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so glad we could, uh, entertain the folk here.

[01:16:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for being here.

[01:16:40] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[01:16:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:16:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, well, if you want to take part in the survey again, it's, uh, going to be at, uh, Rob is a website.com slash BB retrospective.

[01:16:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, if you want to participate in the survey, I will also be tweeting out the link at some point during the week.

[01:16:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, let us know who should be on the poster for big brother too, and then tune in next week.

[01:17:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And we will show you the big brother to poster with the top three up there in all of their glory.

[01:17:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and we will also be talking about big brother three, which I feel is, you know, as for as much as big brother two is the start of big brother, the game proper.

[01:17:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like big brother three is, is really the starting point of big brother strategy.

[01:17:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, we'll certainly had strategy.

[01:17:28] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just not like super replicable.

[01:17:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, it was very much of its time for its particular game.

[01:17:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Big brother three starts introducing the actual strategies that we will be seeing for much of, uh, big brother's time, uh, in the last 25 years.

[01:17:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and with me to talk about big brother three next week will be Chappelle.

[01:17:49] [SPEAKER_03]: So, uh, we'll be talking about Danielle and Jason, um, and, uh, and all, all of that good on the Marcellus.

[01:17:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Marcellus.

[01:18:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, all right.

[01:18:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's what we have for you this week.

[01:18:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Take, uh, take the survey.

[01:18:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, let us know what you thought of our big brother two retrospective, uh, and what you think of the posters.

[01:18:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, so, uh, tune in for that.

[01:18:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, the traders is going to be airing tonight.

[01:18:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I think first three episodes, uh, a lot of episodes at once.

[01:18:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but speaking of Danielle Reyes.

[01:18:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:18:29] [SPEAKER_02]: She's going to be with Grace in our TV screens or maybe our computer screens, depending on where you're watching.

[01:18:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Where you're watching.

[01:18:36] [SPEAKER_00]: What's, what's, what's your percentage chance that she's going to be a traitor, Taryn?

[01:18:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, how, like, this is, this was the thing about Dan too.

[01:18:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And like, you know, all of these players, like, who have these reputations, like, how do you have Danielle Reyes on your traitors cast and not make her a traitor?

[01:18:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I know.

[01:18:55] [SPEAKER_03]: That's just a ridiculous notion to me.

[01:18:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, exactly.

[01:18:59] [SPEAKER_00]: She's built for it.

[01:19:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Her up in the turret.

[01:19:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, with the hood plodding and scheming.

[01:19:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Talking about, like, one down, eight in the go.

[01:19:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, come on!

[01:19:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It's right there!

[01:19:14] [SPEAKER_00]: It's right there!

[01:19:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, so, uh, tune in for our coverage of the traitors and all of that.

[01:19:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, you can find me over on Twitch.

[01:19:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, I just did a stream where I, I ranked the seasons based on, uh, like, basically my enjoyment of them from the live feeds perspective only, which I thought was very fun.

[01:19:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and, uh, and then again next week for Big Brother 3.

[01:19:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Mari, anything you want to plug?

[01:19:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yes.

[01:19:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So, me and Chappelle over on Recap Kickback.

[01:19:40] [SPEAKER_00]: We're having so much fun over there.

[01:19:41] [SPEAKER_00]: We, uh, just dropped, uh, the episode where we talked about the Golden Globes a little bit, the NAACP Image Award nominees.

[01:19:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And we reviewed, uh, the 6888.

[01:19:52] [SPEAKER_00]: It is a Netflix movie, um, uh, by Tyler Perry starring Kerry Washington talking about the 6888 Battalion, uh, and all Black and women of color, um, battalion in World War II.

[01:20:04] [SPEAKER_00]: The only battalion, uh, to, uh, of women, Black women to be sent over to Europe during World War II.

[01:20:11] [SPEAKER_00]: It is an amazing watch on Netflix.

[01:20:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And we had so much fun talking about this very little known Black history moment.

[01:20:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So, go to RecapKickback.com in order to subscribe over there.

[01:20:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And then coming up next week, uh, me and Sarah Carradine hosted Chappelle and Matt to talk about the Girls Gone Wild, uh, the untold story documentary over on Peacock.

[01:20:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a, yes, whiplash.

[01:20:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, if you were.

[01:20:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Hopefully there's a subtitle there.

[01:20:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:20:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[01:20:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Taryn.

[01:20:46] [SPEAKER_03]: We just talked about the Girls Gone Wild.

[01:20:48] [SPEAKER_03]: That's what we were into.

[01:20:49] [SPEAKER_00]: When you talked about how, like, Nicole didn't realize what she was getting into with reality TV, it's a lot of parallels with that in the, um, Girls Gone Wild, um, docu-series that we watched.

[01:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: We really dig into culturally what was this moment, this phenomenon that is, that was Girls Gone Wild at the time as we're watching this docu-series that really dives into the life and the crimes of its, um,

[01:21:18] [SPEAKER_00]: founder, uh, founder, uh, Joe Francis.

[01:21:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So go check out, check that out by going to CrimeScenePod.com in order to subscribe, or you can put in CrimeScene, that's Crime S-E-E-N, and any podcatcher of your choice.

[01:21:31] [SPEAKER_00]: It's coming out next Tuesday.

[01:21:32] [SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna be so much fun.

[01:21:34] [SPEAKER_03]: What a thing lost to time that, like, when I was, when I was, uh, young, I knew I was up too late when the infomercials started.

[01:21:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I really knew I was up too late when the Girls Gone Wild infomercials started.

[01:21:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, exactly, Taryn.

[01:21:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Watching that docu-series was like, it was like a blast from the past.

[01:21:55] [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, I can't believe this is a thing that used to happen, like, 20 years ago.

[01:22:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:22:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It's so interesting.

[01:22:03] [SPEAKER_03]: All right, well, check it out.

[01:22:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, and also check out the Tastemakers over on We Know Scripted TV.

[01:22:06] [SPEAKER_03]: We talked about the Golden Globes as well, did our best of the year, uh, lists.

[01:22:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And, um, just talk about what, what's new on, on TV and, uh, and in theaters, uh, and all that good stuff over on the Tastemakers.

[01:22:18] [SPEAKER_03]: So check that out.

[01:22:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you all so much for joining us this week.

[01:22:21] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll be back next week to talk about Big Brother 3.

[01:22:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, and so we will see you then.