Big Brother 17: A Weekly Big Brother Season Retrospective

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[00:01:15] Hello, everyone, and welcome back to RHAP. We know Big Brother here at RHAP, and we are here for the Big Brother Retrospective. I hope you're ready for a takeover because we're going to be talking about Big Brother 17 this week. And with me to talk about this illustrious season is Beth. How are you doing, Beth? I'm doing great. I'm hoping that my alter ego, Judas, doesn't just pop out out of nowhere. And if it does, you'll know because I'll be wearing these sunglasses.

[00:01:46] Or do I have a twin? We'll have to figure it out. Is it a twin twist? I wish I looked for a top hat. I want you to know I searched for about three whole minutes and I was like, wait, I don't have one. Why am I searching? But, you know, I think that this season is a great one and I'm excited to cover it with you. Yes. Big season, season 17. It's the first season that I, first US season that I was a podcaster for.

[00:02:14] Yes. I, I started with Big Brother Canada 3 and then moved into Big Brother 17. And it was this weird, like awkward time where, you know, I was on recap episodes and then there would usually be a guest as well. And, you know, I was like, let the guest have the spotlight. And then in the, in the spoiler section in the end, it was like, okay, Taryn, what's, what's been happening?

[00:02:42] And that was like my, like two minute monologue of what I, what I was allowed to say. Not allowed to, I wasn't explicitly told, but like my, my own like level of comfort, like taking over the podcast, being able to be like, okay. So basically Vanessa found out about the twins and she figured out like how to make sure that this happened. And it was just like, that's, I was just doing my best, doing my best. No live feed updates yet. Nothing. So a lot to come here, a lot to learn.

[00:03:12] But it was quite the season in terms of the strategy. Of course, it's primarily dominated by Vanessa Rousseau, ultimately won by Steve Moses. So tons to talk about here for Big Brother 17, Beth. Absolutely. And this was actually the first season I watched the feeds for.

[00:03:33] And the reason for that is for anybody who doesn't know, I, and I actually am good friends with Steve Moses and his family have been family friends, you know, since we were young. I've watched him grow up. He's like about six or seven years younger than me. I dated his older brother throughout high school on and off. His mom was my band teacher. I spent pretty much every weekend at their place and many evenings.

[00:03:58] So when I found out that he got cast, I was in a meeting with my vice president and I got like five missed calls from my mom. And I was like, I think there's an emergency. I have to go. And when I left the meeting, I called my mom. I'm like, are you okay? And like, what's happening? She's like, Stephen Moses is going to be on Big Brother. And I was like trying to process all of that because I've grown up with Steve. I knew that he was a big, big brother fan as was his mom.

[00:04:25] But I was also like, oh, he's either going to be first out or he's winning. Like there's literally no in between for him. And I was happy that he did so well. But I watched the feeds because I wanted to watch him. I ended up helping to run his social media when he was in the house. And when they came to do the hometown package for Steve, I actually worked with CBS in production and it was a lot of fun. So this season will always be very, very special to me. Yes. Wow. Look at this.

[00:04:54] We chose wisely, clearly. Well, before we get into Big Brother 17, we do have some business to attend to, which is that we need to reveal the poster for Big Brother 16. There are three people on the poster. Beth, do you have any guesses? Who do you think was chosen by the audience to be on the cover of the Big Brother 16 poster?

[00:05:18] This is what's tough because I'm like, okay, I could see the audience choosing like a Derek, Cody, Frankie kind of situation. But then I could also see them being like, no, no, Derek, no, Frankie. I do think Zach is on there for sure. I could imagine maybe Nicole, even though I don't think that she's like the agency player in that one. And then probably Derek. I think Derek's a safe bet.

[00:05:47] Well, you're kind of close. I should have done Donnie at some point. Not quite. Okay. Derek. Ah, okay. Zach and Frankie. One, two, three. That is the poster. I think that makes sense. I think that you're talking about the person who dominated the strategy, the person who dominated the hearts of America.

[00:06:10] And in the sense of like, yes, bring the chaos and Zach and like the comedy and just kind of throwing wrenches into plans and such. And then, I mean, you can't talk about BB 16 or the rise of like people from social media being cast without bringing up Frankie and just how important he was for both editing and the feeds and such. So listen, he's a mogul. He is. He is a social media mogul. I don't know if you know this actually. Fun fact. His sister is Ariana Grande.

[00:06:41] No way. From Wicked. Yeah. Isn't that weird? I like, I never knew that. And I found that little tidbit out just like a little bit the other day. I thought that was a wild connection. I know. I was like, how did that not make national tell? Like, how did he not say that constantly when he was in the house? Yeah. Well. After a while. That's Big Brother 16. But let's change course here. Phew. Okay. Let's talk about Big Brother 17.

[00:07:11] Big Brother 17, of course, as we said, comes on the heels of Big Brother 16. Uh, and, um, you know, we're really like fresh into this kind of, uh, Big Alliance dominates, uh, kind of era. Um, it just happened with Derek, but at this point it still kind of feels like, eh, this is kind of a unique scenario. Um, you know, uh, Battle of the Block, yeah, it happened, but it's not like they're gonna

[00:07:41] bring it back. Uh, so, you know, this is gonna be a fun, fun season. We did a cast preview. We looked at, uh, we looked at, you know, people like Vanessa. Vanessa, very, very popular preseason pick. A lot of people were looking at Vanessa as, uh, the one to beat. She's a professional poker player. Uh, you know, very, uh, highly regarded. Um, she was like a lawyer.

[00:08:10] Uh, she's just like super smart, super strategic. She's obviously gonna do really well. Um, people were looking at, uh, at Steve as, uh, oh, look, it's Ian 2.0. Um, obviously never gonna be able to replicate Ian's success after, you know, uh, after Ian won. Um, and, uh, and then you, we had some, uh, we had some, um, some interesting additions as well, uh, to the cast.

[00:08:40] Let me see if I can blindly. Nope. That's not the one. Um, you had Jeff, you had Jeff from the amazing race and, uh, and Jackie from the amazing race. I'm going to see if I can. Yes. Jesus identifiable from a very small thumbnail. Um, and so, uh, this was the idea. The idea was that the twist was that there was a takeover, an amazing race takeover.

[00:09:05] Phil Cogan showed up, he said, Hey, I'm, I'm introducing a couple of, uh, amazing race players. Um, they were really like, let's give you the best amazing race representation we've got. It's Jeff and Jackie from a season where we pin, uh, put people together that didn't know each other at all. Complete strangers. Jeff and Jackie are now on the cast and, um, you know, they, uh, they, they, they played the game. They were there.

[00:09:34] Um, I think, I think one played the game. Um, and it took her a little while to wake up, but otherwise it was, they were there. I think as a, not so much Jackie, I think Jeff was just kind of there. Um, and so when he goes, it's, um, it's like, okay, next week, let's go kind of thing. Um, but yeah, I think like many of the takeovers, um, they were wildly impactful and incredibly influential in how people navigated the game.

[00:10:04] Um, like how else do you try to figure out the strategy without being in a shower with every single other person in the cast at the same time? And when you have party week with Gronk, come on, like that is prime strategy for the game. Right. So I, you know, I thought the takeovers were just so impactful and clearly they were too impactful. That's why they got rid of them so early. Yes. Uh, let me see if I can, if I, this will play here.

[00:10:33] Yeah, we still got it. Oh yeah. That drum sound I'm sure haunts everybody who watched that season and was in the house. Uh, famously the takeovers did not last very long. It was speculated that, uh, they were just so unpopular and made such little impact that they just dropped it. Uh, which is probably the smartest thing that they have done with a twist in a long time.

[00:10:59] Um, also on the cast, Dave Vaughn, she is the second person out and yet probably the biggest star from the season. Uh, yeah, I don't think probably even is the right qualifier there. I think is these, the biggest star coming out of that season. I totally agree.

[00:11:24] And I think like, if you can go out week two, come back the next season and then also come back for all stars, like clearly you've had some staying power, right? On top of that, her exit of that, her opening the door is like a meme that everybody uses across every single like online space, whether they know her or where, what it's from. Um, so imagine being so iconic that there is a meme and a gif of you that is used on the

[00:11:53] daily basis across the world. Now that is staying power. Um, no mama day was absolutely prime casting. Um, and I think it's interesting. There's a lot of people I know who say like, Oh, for the exception of a couple of people, this cast was pretty lackluster. And I couldn't disagree more. I think this cast. Yeah, really? Um, seriously. But I, I genuinely think like if you can have such an iconic pre jury, like with Davon and

[00:12:20] Jason and, uh, and Audrey and all these people who were just so incredible in the house as personalities, as strategists, and then they come back and you've got an incredible jury. Um, I don't know. I just think that this is a really dynamic cast and for Davon to stand above them just shows you just what a queen she is. It is a very good cast. I mean, Davon, uh, you have Audrey, Jason, Shelly was great.

[00:12:48] Um, Jackie did turn out to be very fun. Uh, even, even a player like Becky, who I think you would otherwise say was like a little, you know, too, uh, quote unquote normal, like not really like drama enough, uh, ended up being some drama because of her feud with Vanessa. Yeah. Uh, you have Johnny Mac, uh, all time character.

[00:13:13] You for better or worse have James who made an impact and eventually won America's favorite player. You have the twins who were, uh, incredibly entertaining in their own right. Uh, you have Judas himself, uh, Sir Austin, uh, who, uh, you know, victims, aren't we all? Um, you have Steve Moses and maybe you say Steve is not the best character, but, but he certainly added a lot to the season. And of course, Vanessa herself.

[00:13:41] I mean, this is a pretty phenomenal cast, I would say. I agree. And I also think that, um, one of the things that I think is fascinating too, is that this season in particular, my first season that I ever watched live was season 16. And so this was on the heels of that and I'm watching this and I'm like, wow, this is so much better watching the feeds. I had, I didn't watch them in season 16 and I realized just how much gameplay information,

[00:14:10] all that stuff is just like completely cut from the show. And honestly, if you didn't watch the feeds, you would not have understood why Steve won. I can totally understand that. But you really needed to watch the feeds to understand his trajectory, but you also had incredible moments from pretty much everybody on the cast on those feeds. I mean, this was the season of pot ball, you know, where they're playing like they're basically trying to throw aluminum foil balls into pots and such.

[00:14:37] Um, they came up with pranks all the time on each other. Um, some of which made it to the air. Um, there were iconic like side moments and camera talks. Uh, there were some really good life lessons about identities that we got to see. Some of them made it to air. Some of them didn't. It was just, it was a really interesting cast and one that I think all came to play. Um, and whether or not they succeeded in what they wanted to do, I think that it made for good entertainment.

[00:15:07] Yeah. I mean, it's a fantastic season in terms of properly telling the winner's story. Uh, it's probably one of the worst. We talked about obviously Andy's, but even Andy's got there eventually. Uh, Steve's winning game is so dramatically under edited, uh, that, you know, to this day, people still have very little clue what happened.

[00:15:36] I mean, Steve was an essential part of one of the most dominant alliances in the history of the show was formed very early on in like week two, uh, originally named the freaks and geeks, uh, later renamed to the scamper squad. They didn't show this alliance until like more than halfway through the game. They didn't even show it at all.

[00:16:02] Uh, and it's one of the most successful and dominant alliances in the history of the show. Uh, you know, with all of them basically making it to the end of the game. Um, and they weren't always completely on the same page by any means, but they were a dominant force in this season. Uh, and, uh, and the edit was just like, nah, they're not going to become important. Nah, they're not going to become important. Oh God. And the best part about it too, is that when you get into the later part of the game and

[00:16:32] you're seeing Steve really start to win competitions and have a little bit more agency with some power. And you can even argue when he was in power, he, he didn't really have as much agency as somebody normally would because of the weeks that he has power in. It's easy to edit that he's just Vanessa's lackey or, uh, Johnny Mac's lackey, but what you're missing are all the conversations that Steve is having to the camera and to other people where, you know, Johnny Mac goes to the jury and tells everybody, Steve really relied on me the entire season.

[00:17:02] And I agree to a certain extent, but he agreed with, he, I think he played up a lot of the, I'm an innocent dorky kid. And he was very explicit about that on the feeds. Um, and so he wanted to come across as I'm the kid that is not a threat and I am a super fan. I just love this game and I'm smart and I am a little socially awkward and I'm innocent and it just made his threat level so low.

[00:17:30] So yeah, of course he wants even as close as allies to think I got it. I had to carry him through this game, but really he's just having incredible conversations to the camera at home to say, you know, most of the time he's also talking to Kathy, his mom, and just saying like, mom, I promise I'm not doing X, Y, Z. Okay. Um, I've heard them have conversations leading up to the summer about what they would and wouldn't do, uh, in a strategy based game. So I, I think that I, you know, it's, it's too bad that it never made it there, but you're completely right.

[00:18:00] You could tell production was like, oh man, I don't know. We love Vanessa. Don't get us wrong. And we'd love that there's a showmance, but we're not sure this is the showmance. You can tell they wanted Shea or, um, Shelly and clay to like stay for so long because that was the showmance they really wanted to show for the season. And then they loved that. It was dramatic that clay goes pre-jury and Shelly's the first juror and, oh, they're separated. And anyway, but this week, you know, it's just so like fascinating.

[00:18:29] And then they're like, okay, I guess, you know, we love Johnny and we love Vanessa. So, you know, we'll show Steve, but only as a lackey. And I think that's an unfortunate thing that if you only watched the season, you wouldn't understand just how much agency and thought he put into stuff. Steve has one of my favorite, like introductions to the audience, uh, very early on. Basically one of the first things you see Steve do is he's like, you know, I really like Dave on.

[00:18:58] I'd love to make an alliance with her, maybe work with her. Uh, he approaches Dave on, he has a brief conversation with her and she's like, yeah, yeah, that's totally cool. And he starts to leave. He's like, all right, thanks. Love you. Oh, I'm, I'm sorry. And she's like, what? He's like, oh, you didn't hear? Nevermind. It's amazing. The way that I watched him do that his entire life for everything.

[00:19:26] Like my mom was our librarian at school. And so the amount is she ended up having to designate an entire study room just for Steve. Um, because he was in there all the time and he would always be like, you know, kind of walk up and be like, so I was wondering if blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then he would just kind of like literally scamper away. And I think that that's what kind of led to the name of the scamper squad is that they were kind of making fun of him for the way he kind of like awkwardly moved away. Like, cause he was like, oh, I don't know what I'm doing kind of thing.

[00:19:53] It's just so funny when I saw that in like the first episode he's on, which I believe is the second episode of the entirety of the season. I just remember being like, oh my God. And then when he's like, you know, nominated the first week, I was like, yeah, he's, he's got to go first. I'm so, no, I hope he doesn't. And sure enough, you know, he, he finds his way as he always does. And bigger targets were presenting themselves left, right and center. So he got to play the game.

[00:20:22] He wanted to come in here and play because there were enough dominant personalities and strategists trying to, you know, vie for the power that he could easily play the, oh, I'm just innocent, even though he's really doing a good job of integrating where he needed to be. All right. Well, the season begins. We have the takeover twist, but guess what? That's not all. Yeah. Because a fan favorite twist is coming back famously.

[00:20:50] Julie refers to it as a fan favorite twist to this day. One of the biggest mysteries in big brother history, even greater than the mystery of Helen being pushed, even greater than the mystery of how they counted hamsters as a relationship is where in the world did they get that data? Yeah. Because, uh, I didn't see anybody happy that the battle of the block was back, but, uh, it's back the battle of the block. Let's go.

[00:21:20] Um, as this was my second season ever really watching big brother, I didn't realize that this kind of replaced food competitions. I didn't understand that. So I just thought this was something that normally happened in the seasons. And it wasn't until I was like very much integrated into the feeds where everybody was like, no, it's not normal. And it's awful. And I was like, oh, okay. I don't understand the strategy yet, but you're right. I, I, I imagine. And I learned very quickly. They should have just named it battle of the back door because all it does is set people

[00:21:49] up to go out the back door as it does five times in a row. Well, as long as that twist is alive in this season. Yeah. Uh, so with battle of the block in play, the season is ripe for, uh, a big alliance to, uh, to weaponize it and dominate in the same way that Derek and the bomb squad were able to do just a season before.

[00:22:12] Um, but Vanessa sort of has her own ideas again, Vanessa, one of the big preseason players, a lot of people looking at Vanessa, uh, wondering how Vanessa is going to play. Uh, and then when the feeds open, the very first night that the feeds are on our introduction to Vanessa is her sobbing her eyes out saying she wants to go home.

[00:22:39] Um, and, uh, pretty much the entire audience collectively just went, oh, oh, no. We quickly learn. She just cries and that's okay because I identify as a, as a crier. I don't intend on applying to big brother, but if I were somehow, you know, there's nobody else in the world that they've gone to. And they're like, you know what? We got to get Beth Dixon in there. I guarantee I'd be crying just as much. And like she does. And I apologize in advance. Um, but I totally get it.

[00:23:09] I'm like a baby in the sense that like they get overstimulated. So they cry. So like, that's me. I'm like, I'm overwhelmed. And I just cry. And I feel like that's what she did. But then she realized she could weaponize her tears as many white women learn that they can do. And, uh, she was able to do it within the game sense, um, as is, I think best exhibited in week three when she finally is HOH for the first time. But yeah, I remember a lot of people going into the season.

[00:23:37] If Steve hadn't been in the house, I would have been rooting for Vanessa. Cause I used to watch poker stars and I loved watching the few women that were poker stars, uh, you know, uh, representations. And she was one of them. And I was like, Oh, this is going to be so cool. I want to watch. I also remember a lot of people, myself included theorizing that she and Dave Vaughn would get on really well because Dave Vaughn was a poker dealer. And we were like, Oh, maybe Dave Vaughn knows who she is. And I don't think she did. If I, if I'm. I don't think so.

[00:24:05] So I just think that it was just, uh, fascinating. Uh, now that you mentioned that I, I completely forgot that like, that's the first introduction. Oh, I remember it clearly. Cause I was like, ah, damn. Like I was really looking forward to Vanessa, the strategist. Uh, and she might quit. She might quit week one. Uh, I think, I think she was in my draft too. So I was like, Oh man. Um, and so, um, so yes, uh, rough start for Vanessa, not just from the end of the day.

[00:24:35] From the perspective of people watching the feeds, but also, uh, just in the game in general, she was not really included in a lot of things early on. Now here's what happened. There were two groups that entered the game. They both compete just like season 16, both groups competed for HOH. There were two different winners of the HOH. One was James. The other was Jason. Um, now within both groups, there was one person that volunteered to sit out of the competition.

[00:25:05] Um, in one group, it was Dave on in the other. It was Vanessa. She decided to take a gamble, uh, knowing that there might be some benefit to it later. Turns out it was a correct gamble to take because the person that sits out it's safety for the week. On top of that, they get to choose another person to give safety to.

[00:25:29] And this is one of the big early moments that is hugely beneficial to Vanessa's game because she chooses to give safety to one Austin, uh, AKA Judas. Oh yeah. And I think that's something that is, I, I, I think Austin is unfairly overlooked as a strategist for this season.

[00:25:53] Um, I would actually argue that second to Vanessa, he's probably the most strategic person this entire season. That's my argument. He really did. Especially with the twins kind of really try to navigate how they were going to get through the middle part of the game. Like he was very instrumental and a lot of that had to do with this connection he makes with Vanessa week one where they kind of know that each other are very strategic and they got to rely on each other.

[00:26:20] But they're also just so wary of the other person that it just always keeps them on their toes. And I think that that's a key aspect that both Austin and Vanessa always are in charge, um, you know, thinking about in this house, which you kind of have to be. Um, and I just think that this is really, I think what propels them forward is this being able to forge this connection so early in the game. And I give that as a testament to Vanessa to kind of identify that, especially while he's having like these surfer meathead moments with Jace.

[00:26:49] Like she chooses somebody who clearly in the very beginning has a duo with Jace. Um, and I think that that's a smart idea. Like choose somebody who's connected and then kind of grow that more strategic alliance rather than just like a bond alliance that he has with Jace. And I think that that was a really smart move for her. Yes. Jace was, uh, tightly aligned with Austin from very early on.

[00:27:15] They formed an alliance they named shell town, um, because they were, they were going to be the next chill town, Austin and Jace. And they made a bunch of jokes. They thought that they were going to run this game. Uh, in reality, they just, uh, basically made themselves out to be massive targets to the big alliance because the chill town bro alliance does not work in a,

[00:27:45] in a system where it's all about big alliances, big structures. Um, and so basically James and Jason as the HOH is work together very closely. They pull in a bunch of people for an early alliance. These people include Dave Vaughn. They include Shelly and clay. Um, they include Audrey. Uh, and, um, and so all of these people have come together.

[00:28:11] They are ostensibly going to be the big dominant alliance of the season. They have realized that the two biggest physical threats outside of their lines that are seemingly together are Jason Austin. Austin is safe. So Jace kind of stands out as a good early target. Um, but they don't want to outright put Jace on the block. They don't want to make big moves early unless they, uh, know that the shot will land.

[00:28:39] So Jace is kind of the target, but there are a bunch of pawns that need to be named. Um, and this is where we get a lot of early sort of dynamics. Uh, Steve of course is going to be named as a pawn early on. He's going to be nominated up with Jackie. Um, and the reason is because he's Steve. He tells people I love you accidentally. Uh, Jace is later going to lecture him about how the game works.

[00:29:07] Um, and, uh, and he just seems like an easy person to put up there. Uh, not going to piss anyone off. Not going to really have a lot of, uh, you know, revenge in him. Although Becky will learn differently later. Um, on the other side, uh, you had Becky and Johnny Mac were nominated together. Becky and Johnny Mac eventually become a, uh, an important duo, at least briefly later in the season.

[00:29:31] Um, and, uh, and this is the first of many instances for Johnny Mac where basically he was asked to, uh, to, to, to basically volunteer to be nominated. Um, because the thing about Johnny Mac is that, uh, he's just kind of a funny guy. Uh, he just has a funny way of talking. Um, and, and just sort of existing.

[00:29:57] And so everybody in the game really underestimated Johnny Mac in very hilarious ways. Um, he was a favorite in the diary room. People loved hearing his thoughts. And that's primarily because you get these, uh, these moments where they're like, Hey, Johnny Mac, would you be okay with going up on the block? Cause they were like, he's just similar to Steve, just a guy we can just throw up there. Um, and Johnny Mac in the diary room would be like, no, no, I'm not okay with this.

[00:30:26] Um, and then they just kept asking him really gained some popularity, which eventually became very funny because in the house, nobody thought he was relevant or strategic in any way. And yet he was getting so much time in the diary room and people started to get very suspicious about this. I think they, if I remember this correctly, um, I believe Steven told me that after the season, um, he told me that, um, they could hear him in the diary room.

[00:30:56] And that they were suspicious that he might be like an America's player because of how much he was in the diary room. And that they were like, he's just yelling. Do we sound that loud when we're in there? Cause I think it made people paranoid that maybe they're that loud when they're in there because Johnny did not talk like that in the house. He'd like really reserved it for the diary room. So I, I've always thought that that was just so funny that like, you know, he's, you know, like that kind of voice, right?

[00:31:26] I don't know what, I just got up the, you know, the, the, the, the butter there. And it's just, those, that was so iconic. And I just love that that affected the game in some capacity where they started really kind of in the middle of the season being like, no, I think Johnny is actually more of a threat, but I don't know why. And listen, Vanessa has all kinds of theories and many of them involve Johnny Mac. So I'm sure we'll get there. We're Teresa and Nemo. And that's why we switched to Shopify. We're going to Shopify gewechselt.

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[00:32:53] With things set in place, Becky and Johnny Mac do end up winning the first Battle of the Block competition, dethroning Jason and leaving Jackie and Steve on the block together. Steve goes on to win the first veto competition and thus gives me an asterisk that I can use when I talk about the stat of the winner never being one of the first nominees that faces a vote. And then Taylor's going to change that one too.

[00:33:21] But basically, you know, he manages to get himself off the block. He does not have to face this vote, which I do think is pretty important for him in the game. Jace is the replacement nominee and is voted out nearly unanimously. But there's a lot going on around this.

[00:33:41] One of the primary things is that Vanessa, using that connection that she's made with Austin, is the only person to give Austin a heads up that this is about to happen. Basically telling him there's nothing that you can do about it. Your best bet is to just lie low and really solidify this thing.

[00:34:00] Now, I did a podcast a few years ago that was I think I called it like Big Brother Genius, Vanessa's Twin Twist or something, where I talked a lot about how basically Vanessa is a player who had very little social capital throughout most of the game and thus was forced to use her strategy to move people around because she couldn't like actually win their hearts over. She had to win their minds over almost.

[00:34:29] And so Vanessa was somebody that was going to use every opportunity, every like functional action she could to draw people closer to her. So giving Austin safety, being the first and only person to give him a proper heads up. These were moves that she made to actively draw him in closer when like theoretically her personality would not have. And I think that that's also super key to bring up in the relationship with Steve as a winner, too, because one of the things he does message or talk about is like,

[00:34:59] using this quote unquote, quote unquote, Tiff he has with Austin in the beginning, which also kind of came from Jason him in this first week as a deflection to see how, you know, how close they really were working strategically together. A lot of that is separate from the Vanessa cluing Austin in on the plan to evict Jace. But a lot of it is also just like this relationship that Steve goes to and they start working together in the next week or so.

[00:35:27] And because of Vanessa bringing them all together, essentially. But a lot of this is just fascinating, too, because I think while people were really threatened by Austin and Jace, I honestly think the reason why Jace goes is that he was just really a lot in the house. Like people were kind of just he was streaking and some people found it funny, but he was just a constant high energy. He was kind of exhausting the people around him. He was like up all night making noise.

[00:35:55] And so I think when Vanessa gives Austin that heads up to like kind of lie low, she's also not just saying lie low in terms of strategy. She's like, you need to like bring the macho attitude down because take a look at this house. OK, this this is not a macho man house right now. And you are putting yourself out there as a threat. So I think it's just fascinating.

[00:36:18] You have this first week where it really does set up the tempo for the beginnings of Freaks and Geeks, Scamper Squad. At one point they called it Sixth Sense and then they were told by production they couldn't have that name because it's trademarked. Sixth Sense was the one with Shelley and Clay. That's right. That's right. They ran into a lot of copyright issues. Yes, they did. That's right. But it's just I think that that's just so interesting.

[00:36:40] Like that's such a huge move for Vanessa and one that if she were answering those final questions, I would have loved for her to have brought up. So with Jason, the block, you know, things again were theoretically going smoothly. However, there were a lot of things going on. The big alliance was not very solid. There were some cracks here.

[00:37:07] One of those cracks was between Davon and Shelley and Clay. Shelley and Clay become a quick duo, a quick showmance that are going to be a very powerful force in this game moving forward. There was this drama about Davon like counting things in the house that happened. So there was a little bit of tension there.

[00:37:31] But the bigger drama came when when basically Audrey started doing her thing that basically Audrey was somebody who came into the game with some experience playing like online reality games and really came in hot. And just started like I'm in a big alliance. I'm going to try to orchestrate who's nominated, who's targeted.

[00:37:58] I'm going to start running around and sort of like giving information to different people. She recognizes Vanessa as a threat fairly early on. She even recognized that she was like, I think Vanessa spilled what's going to happen to Austin. I think like she sort of saw what was going on there. There was a whole drama about like a women's alliance that she was trying to pin on Vanessa. And then Davon got involved in all of this as well because Davon was hearing different things. And then Vanessa was talking to Davon about like, well, what's going on? Did you say this to Audrey?

[00:38:27] And all of this just like very quickly points everyone back to Audrey. And it all blows up into a big fight with Davon and Vanessa. We get point blanking in the period. Uh, and, um, you know, it, it, Audrey's game blows up very quickly.

[00:38:48] And this big alliance still is a fairly big and sound alliance to some degree, but they've kind of kicked Audrey to the curb and Audrey becomes kind of like the big house target. Yeah. And I think what's also interesting with this is that within that big alliance, the, she and Shelly and Davon really tried to make a final three, like the moment they walked into the house.

[00:39:15] And so it started with Davon being like, I don't like that. Shelly is now getting close with clay because she's never going to put us in front of clay. So then she went to Audrey and was like, we need to be a type two and keep her more on the fringe. And then that leads Audrey to be like, Ooh, okay. So there's some cracks I can manipulate. Let me see what I can pin on other people. And like you said, accurately pointing out who, uh, the, the threat that Vanessa is.

[00:39:43] And I think that her experience with all of, you know, the online orgs and, uh, like you said, I just think has made, and I think she's just naturally a very perceptive person. I think that, you know, she just comes in too hot and she's, it's a Sari problem. She's used to a much faster pace, right? Well, and on top of that, she's also like sitting back.

[00:40:06] Like, um, I, I didn't think people would literally tell them I said that, that is that that's like an oversight. Right. So she like goes and she's like, I didn't think it would kind of get back to me, but when everybody's saying, well, yeah, Audrey told me that. Well, Audrey told me that. And they're kind of like doing the Spider-Man meme. Like what, what? Well, Audrey said that, um, that I think it's really impressive that Audrey sticks around for a couple more weeks because

[00:40:32] she very easily could have gone out, uh, and would have been a house target at that point. There were some people who were really looking out for her, Vanessa being the key one for her in those early weeks. Um, and a lot of that had to do with the sense of identity. I think it's, we're remiss if we don't bring up the Audrey as the first transgender house guest that has been on Big Brother and was open. And, uh, for her, this was also very much a coming out, um, into a lot of people in her life as well.

[00:41:01] Um, and Vanessa is a, uh, queer woman herself just found like there's a sense of community. Like I need to look after her. I want to make sure that the house isn't ganging up on her. Um, cause even though it's not because she is trans, she is likely that is probably an implicit bias in somebody. Right. Um, so it's likely that she's going to get more pile on than somebody who did the same exact thing, but doesn't have that identity.

[00:41:28] So Vanessa was like very clear about that, which I really appreciated, but it also meant that like Audrey gets a little couple, a couple more weeks because she has the right people to kind of rely on who are really strategic. And, and also importantly, uh, you know, Audrey kind of fell onto the side of Shelly and Clay versus Davon.

[00:41:48] And so, you know, when everyone else had an issue with Audrey, because sort of Davon had an issue with Audrey, Shelly and Clay were like, well, she got in trouble for being kind of on our side. Like, uh, you know, like, yeah, Audrey got in trouble for doing all that stuff, but it's not like she did it to us. Whereas we know that Davon is probably going to come after us.

[00:42:08] So it's actually like Audrey's meddling actually ends up being the thing that gets Davon out of the house really more than anything else. Um, and so I, you know, I don't think that she gets enough credit for that, you know? Well, yes. So Jace ends up being the first person voted out.

[00:42:30] Uh, I, I, I think really like the, the only, the, the primary thing worth watching, if you want to know more about Jace is, uh, I'm sure it exists somewhere. Uh, there's probably a YouTube video of his conversation with Steve, um, which was just, just so ridiculous.

[00:42:48] Uh, but otherwise doesn't make too much of an impact on the season as we head into week two, where Becky and Shelly both win the two battle of the block HOH spots. Um, and so theoretically, this is supposed to be everyone targeting Audrey. Uh, Audrey is the big house target.

[00:43:14] Um, but, uh, but Shelly will ultimately have some other plans. Um, but there's a lot going on this week. Um, first and foremost, the subject of the podcast I mentioned earlier that I did about the twin twist, which is that Liz was actually Liz and Julia. Uh, it was twin twist 2.0.

[00:43:39] Um, and, uh, they'd been switching back and forth in the house, uh, trying to make it until a certain point in the game where both of them would be able to enter the game. Uh, but there's one problem with this for Liz and Julia, which is that Dave Vaughn caught them just straight up caught them.

[00:44:03] Uh, and you know, it wasn't exactly the, uh, the kindest way of catching them, but basically she said, uh, one of them weighs more. That's that one's thickums. Uh, and the other one is skinnier. Uh, it's pretty clear. Uh, Johnny Mac later has a very funny way of telling them apart, which is their teeth. Yes. Johnny Mac, a dentist, by the way, which, which not a single person believed at first. Uh, everyone's like, he is not a dentist.

[00:44:32] And the best part about that is that the, you know, the, um, have not room where the dentist chairs and he spent the entire time being like, we don't have those anymore. Those chairs were out in the nineties. Uh, uh, you know, and it was just, or he'd be like, you know, the x-rays on the wall are upside down or whatever they were, you know, they weren't correct. It's, I just love that. It drove him crazy all summer. And I was like, that's a personal extra layer of have not hell for him when he's asked to be in that room. Um, yes.

[00:45:01] So, uh, so this is huge. Uh, Devon realizes that these, that, that Liz is a twin and has been switching back and forth. She was like, I was thinking of it before. I thought, I thought maybe it was happening, but then this girl walked out and I was like, they're definitely twins. Uh, she's super observant. She shares this with Jason. They call in some more people and they start spreading this information around.

[00:45:27] Um, and this is where Vanessa is able to take control of the entire game for basically the rest of the season. Because while Devon does go to Liz and say, Hey, some people are saying you might be a twin. Uh, Liz is like, what? That's crazy. And she's like, yeah, probably is right. So you need to really vote for me to stay. Cause at this point she's already been nominated. Uh, you know, so that we can, we can like work together and stuff. Liz is like, wow. Okay.

[00:45:57] Um, and that's kind of the extent to which Devon has a conversation with Liz about this. It's the extent to which pretty much anybody in the house has a conversation with her about it. They all think that she either might be a twin or straight up is a twin, but they don't really talk to her about it. Now, when Vanessa hears about this, her first thought is, let me go talk to Liz. And so she goes to Liz. They talk about the vote. They talk about what's going on.

[00:46:24] Um, and Vanessa slowly coaxes this out of her. Uh, like, why are people saying you're a twin? Liz is like, I don't know, like who's saying it. She's like, I heard it came from Devon. Um, and like, just so you know, if it were true, I would think that's awesome because now you have another person coming in an extra vote for us. That would be amazing. Um, and draws it out from Liz who then says, it's, it is true. I am a twin.

[00:46:54] And, and also I'm not Liz. I'm Julia. Oh, oh, nice to meet you. And this is, this is the key to Vanessa's entire game because now she has a twist of her own to weaponize. And she is the first person to go up and tell Shelly and Clay. Everyone else has neglected to do so. Hey, guess what? Liz is a twin. That's actually Julia.

[00:47:18] And this is amazing for us because we can now create an alliance with Liz and it's like a two for one deal. Uh, we will get an extra person into our alliance at a certain point in the game. And so using the fact that they now have a shared secret, she's giving Liz, Julia advice on like what she should do to hide the fact that she's a twin.

[00:47:41] Uh, Shelly and Clay are now lying to their former allies about the fact that they now know for sure that she's a twin. And they create the Sixth Sense alliance with, uh, Austin who has been trying to, uh, uh, flirt with Liz and Julia. Um, uh, Liz, uh, herself, uh, you have Shelly and Clay. Um, you have, uh, you have Vanessa.

[00:48:06] And, and this is the alliance that sort of emboldens Shelly and Clay, uh, in many ways to, uh, and they'd already kind of made this move. And, and lots of that came from Vanessa herself to be like, why would you take out Audrey? Everyone else is coming after Audrey. Um, why not go for somebody else instead? Let's keep Audrey around. And so this is, they come kind of come out of this week with the Sixth Sense alliance. Um, they decide not to go through with the plan to take down Audrey.

[00:48:33] Instead, they decide to, uh, have Devon up on the block and, uh, and they nominate Meg as the replacement pawn after Johnny Mac wins the veto. Which again is a whole other story where they again asked Johnny Mac to be a pawn. Then they asked him to throw the battle of the block to ensure that, that Shelly would remain the HOH, which he did. Then he won the veto and they had the gall to be like, Johnny Mac, could you please not use the veto?

[00:49:03] So we don't have to put anyone else up. And that's when we got the famous, no, I also love, I, it is burned into my brain when Shelly and Clay are talking to him about going up as a pawn and Clay the entire time is going, put me up. I'll just, I'll go up. It's not. And Shelly's like, no, because like pawns go home and blah, blah, blah. And that kind of thing.

[00:49:25] And then Johnny comes in here, his face is just, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, and he's like shaking hands with them like this. And it is so clear. Like he, he looks like he's like, yeah, sure. Uh, whatever. But I, I just think it's so iconic at this point that, you know, you just make certain people pawns over and over and over and over. And then you just don't think they have agency.

[00:49:49] I love that Johnny Mac and Steve in particular kind of turn that narrative around because they find themselves being like, well, we can actually curry favor with this big alliance. While we won't be like central to it, we will be trusted people that they will protect us. Um, and because we are people who don't typically, uh, make people feel threatened in this game.

[00:50:13] Cause there's so many other big characters and personalities that really works for them in a way that like it would never have worked for Davon, Jason, Audrey, any of those kinds of people who had a larger profile in the way that they approach the game. Yes. Important to note as well that Becky's nominees were Jason and Steve, uh, nominated for the second week in a row. Um, Johnny actually doesn't even throw it by the way. I'm sorry to interrupt you.

[00:50:40] He, he like, he's like, uh, the worst strategy ever. I don't even have to like do anything. And you know, he's just like kind of walking around and she's like, I'm just like pulling him all over the place. He didn't even really throw that. Uh, Davon just had a bad strategy for that battle of the block. Hmm. Uh, but yeah, Steve nominated by Becky. Uh, she did have, she was like this guy. He just walks around, goes into different rooms. I should nominate him.

[00:51:09] Uh, there is, there is a little bit of causation here for the feud later to come. Um, but Steve and, uh, and Jason ended up winning that battle of the block. Steve never actually faces a vote until, uh, deep into the season, despite being an early pawn a couple of times. These wins again, very important, I think for his game. Um, so with all of that in place, uh, the vote comes down on Davon.

[00:51:34] Uh, things are not looking good for her, but that, and that's kind of like the show narrative that all of this is happening. Um, that, you know, this falls onto Davon. Johnny, Johnny does win, uh, use the veto. Meg goes up as the replacement after, uh, they were initially looking at Liz. Um, Austin actually does a lot of work, uh, along with Vanessa to try to talk them out of that. Put Meg on the block instead, because what would happen if the vote flipped? Uh, you wouldn't want that to happen.

[00:52:02] That becomes very important because they then changed it to Meg. That was a good step, uh, toward then being able to, once they found out about the twins, make that Sixth Sense Alliance. Um, now what the show leaves out is that Vanessa also approached, uh, you know, Austin and Steve about forming a different alliance, uh, which they then called the Freaks and Geeks Alliance, uh, which makes a lot of sense for these people.

[00:52:32] They were like, oh, we're the freaks like Austin and the geeks like Steve. Um, Steve and Vanessa had a, uh, a final two called the Students of Sound at this point. They bonded over their love of music. Um, and, uh, and so, uh, this was like a very, again, under the radar kind of thing. They bonded on a very strategic level, but like had that kind of connection.

[00:52:54] Um, and so this was the very important sort of side alliance to this, to the Sixth Sense that allowed Vanessa to really deeply entrench herself into a solid power structure. Um, and it's this power structure that absolutely dominates the Battle of the Block portion of the season. Uh, it takes a few hits once the Battle of the Block ends and then crushes the final portion of the season.

[00:53:21] Um, and unfortunately for Davon, uh, she is a victim of this. Uh, aren't we all? And, um, and there's just no way out for her despite winning the, uh, takeover twist nullify three votes thing. Uh, it's still not even close. She is going to be evicted over Meg.

[00:53:41] Uh, a second boot who then comes back the following season and then comes back again for an all-star season who goes on to compete in the challenge and, uh, leaves a long legacy, inspires many future players because of how iconic she is, how observant she was. Um, and in just two weeks of time managed to really, really make an impact and leave an imprint. I, it was because of her that I learned that slim fast doesn't work that fast.

[00:54:10] So I will always hold her dear into my heart. Um, and the, uh, I did change my name just for a little bit, just for this week, uh, that we're discussing because I thought it was important. I love Jason's thing. It was like, but then her sister fat Beth comes in and blah, blah, blah. So here we are. Um, I will be fat Beth for the remainder of the next 30 seconds, but I mean, what a queen, uh, her and Jason together were a lot of fun to watch. Uh, and so it was sad to have her go so early. Mm-hmm.

[00:54:39] So the following week, uh, with Devon gone saw Vanessa and Austin win HOH together, uh, which of course meant that they had a lot of power. Uh, again, though, the expectation was, okay, now it's Audrey's time to go. Um, and, uh, and of course Vanessa didn't really have much intention of, of doing that.

[00:55:05] Uh, she had a few different ideas of who she might want to target. James being one of them, Jeff being one of them eventually. Uh, but this is a very interesting week because of how it goes down because at this point people had still been pretty skeptical of Vanessa. She was on the outs for, for the first week. She had been expressing a desire to quit and go home.

[00:55:30] Uh, but had a couple of good like strategy moments, but it was like, you know, this is somebody who's on the outs. They're not part of the power structure or whatever. Second week, um, all of that twin stuff happened pretty late into the week. Uh, so it wasn't until late into the week that we were like, Whoa, wait a minute. Uh, she's really doing stuff. And again, at this time, weren't like live feed updates. Uh, you know, uh, by the, by the time I told the twin story, it was the following Sunday.

[00:55:56] Um, so like, you know, not that like people listening to the podcast were the, you know, uh, arbiters of what was known at the time, but like the information didn't spread so fast. Uh, and so, um, you know, Vanessa was still not really seen as a master strategist by any means.

[00:56:13] And the week three HOH that she has does not help her case, uh, for, for a few reasons, um, that, that probably shouldn't have been reasons, but, but this is how people saw what was happening. Basically because the entire house was supposed to be going after Audrey, unlike Shelley, uh, who was essentially just like, I'm not going to do that. Uh, Vanessa didn't want to be seen as like a game player.

[00:56:43] Uh, she wanted to be able to have some kind of, uh, facade as like just somebody who's, who's making emotional decisions. And it wasn't hard for her to, uh, present that illusion because she was a very emotional person. Um, and so when, so it's basically what happens is Austin nominates James and Meg. Uh, she nominates, uh, uh, sorry, Jason and Meg.

[00:57:09] She nominates James and, uh, and Johnny Mac again, Johnny Mac wins the veto again. Uh, now very important. She thinks that Austin throws this to Johnny Mac to just in general, she thinks Austin through this, uh, and she will confront Austin about it. I know you threw that. I know you threw that. Why are you screwing me over like this? And Austin's like, I didn't Vanessa, please. Um, and she's, uh, she's so pissed about it.

[00:57:37] Um, and never, and genuinely like you would think, oh, she confronts him about it. He says, no, she eventually lets it go. No, she does not let it go at all. Continues the conversation, keeps pressing him over and over. And he's like, Vanessa, I am telling you, I did not. Why would I throw that? Uh, and she's like, I can't believe you're sitting here and lying to my face like this. And he eventually just has to be like, can I just say, I'm sorry? I'm sorry. And she's like, okay.

[00:58:07] This is what I love. Okay. Um, it's, this is giving unhinged girlfriend who can't believe that her boyfriend wasn't out with another girl. You know what I mean? And which is funny because Austin is later going to find Liz under the covers with Jeff. And there we go. Exactly.

[00:58:31] So I, I always loved that she, in my opinion, is one of the few people to like expertly use this as strategy. And I never really got a good sense of like, it was completely thought out as like, oh, she doesn't matter if I'm like, oh. She fully believed he threw it. Yeah. Just to be clear. Yeah. Yeah. No, she definitely believed it. But I don't know if she thought like, it's okay that I'm just going to get emotional because I have the power in these ways.

[00:58:58] Or if she just literally couldn't control the emotion. And, and I do think that there are times where she couldn't, but as we see later in this week, I, she very much with Jeff knew exactly how to play the emotional side of things and make it appear.

[00:59:17] Like you said, as an emotional thing and not as a strategic move, which I think is such a credit to the strategy that she had and better understanding who she is and the strengths that she brings. I will argue to the day is done. This season has Steve, Vanessa, Johnny Mac, so many people who know exactly how they are being perceived and use that as strategy. And I don't see that all the time and cast. And if I do, it's normally like one person.

[00:59:47] I love how she basically was like, all right, I guess I'm, I'm emotional. And so I have to use this and maybe that's my shield for myself. And I think it works for her for at least the next couple of weeks before people start kind of catching on what a bigger threat she is. Yeah. And, and so basically what happens here is that Jeff really was a bit of a threat to, to Vanessa in general. Prior to this week, he had been pulling on Austin a bit.

[01:00:16] They had this like weird podcast thing they did together. Now, eventually there is drama between them, as I mentioned, as, as Austin, you know, sees that Jeff is trying to kind of put the moves on Liz a little bit. And so they have, they have drama, but, but Jeff is, is, he is like a central figure in the other side of the house. He is a little bit of a glue guy, as Sam might've said from Survivor.

[01:00:42] Uh, and so, um, he, he ends up being a very good target for Vanessa, but this is a problem that often Survivor players actually have, which is that if you make a move to take down a big player, um, you become the next big player. Uh, everyone looks at you as like, oh, well you're making big moves. You're not doing what the house wants. You're making strategic decisions. You're playing King of the Hill, essentially.

[01:01:09] Exactly. Now, uh, from the audience perspective, a lot of people were like, just do it Vanessa. Cause she kept hedging. She kept saying like, I need a reason. I need reasons. I need a reason to do this. And the audience was like, what do you mean? You need a reason. This is so stupid. Uh, this is big brother. You don't need a reason. Um, and she kept saying, no, I need reason. You reason. Uh, so what she does is basically manufacture drama between her and Jeff.

[01:01:38] Uh, by saying like, by telling Austin about like, oh, well, Jeff said this about what you were thinking. And then Austin goes down and confronts Jeff. And then she comes down and she's like, you did say that to me, Jeff. And gets into this big confrontation with him in front of everyone. Um, so that when she then blindsides him, puts him on the block and not, and not Audrey, she's able to, to essentially give off the perception of like, yeah, he just pissed her off. They got into a big fight. That's why she didn't go through that move.

[01:02:08] Now, what does that mean? It means she's a wild card. It means that you can't necessarily rely on her, but her alliance knew what was happening. Uh, it was just the people on the outside that didn't. And that was the important thing. Um, and so it worked really well. Um, Vanessa was seen as just like this wild emotional player who made this move because she got into this fight with Jeff. Now that was hard to see at the time. Um, but, uh, but, but that was basically what was happening here.

[01:02:38] And it's a perfect representation of just like, yeah, like the mixture of Vanessa as a person into Vanessa as a player. She was that person. She, when she got into the fight with Jeff, it wasn't like she was faking it. She was actually mad at him. She just intentionally set herself into that position so that she would then have a reason to target him as the HOH.

[01:03:03] This is, um, you know, this is a good reminder that she like literally like, didn't she get it like a master's in game theory or something like that? Incentive is another word that she really liked to use. We need the incentive. We need to incentivize. Uh, and people got very frustrated by that. And I think that the reason why it's frustrating is that people just feel like, well, this is a game, just make decisions and then just back it up. Just own it.

[01:03:29] And like her way of owning it so that she could get into character was, it's almost like she was an actor going, what's my backstory? I need to, I need to be very emotional and yell at Jeff for no reason. What's, what's the reason? What's the backstory? It needs to make sense. Um, but it also needs to not make sense so that it doesn't make me look strategic.

[01:03:49] Um, and so I think that she very quickly realized, okay, it's better for people to view me as a wild card than a person who's really strategic and smart. Um, like you said, and I, and I think that, um, if this empowers her to continue this strategy throughout the rest of the game in various different capacities, um, if this hadn't worked for her and if people were just like, what the hell's wrong with you? We're so mad that you didn't get rid of Audrey.

[01:04:19] So like next week it's you and Audrey on the block or whatever. I don't know if we would have seen that version of Vanessa. Well, I mean, maybe she would have been voted. I don't know. But I genuinely think like you have to be thinking about other people's incentives in the games. You have to be thinking about, okay, these people react in certain ways. How do they view me? This is how I know I come across to other people. But how did these individuals do it? How do my Alliance members see me? How do I keep all these things intact?

[01:04:49] And the fact that she was able to kind of pretty much expertly do this and have this like Jeff's face throughout the whole thing. It's just what the fuck is happening? Like that is iconic. That to me is like the only thing I really think about with Jeff is him being on the receiving end. You must be like silly. Like I need time or I need space or whatever it is where she just like walks away. He's like, what the hell?

[01:05:15] Yes, I think this is a very, very vital moment for Vanessa. In particular, there is a two week period where her enemies win HOH. We'll talk a lot about. And those are the two weeks where Clay and Shelly take the hit. And Clay and Shelly taking the hit over Vanessa is so incredibly key for her game. And it's this week that helps set that up.

[01:05:41] It helps her pull off what then she manages to do in week five, which plays into weeks six and seven. So we'll talk about that. Ultimately, we see Jeff leave the game here. You know, Big Jeff, as he was known, you know, Big Jeff, I guess, 2.0. Nobody really was too upset about this.

[01:06:07] We then head on to the following week where Liz and Shelly win the HOHs. Shelly, again, dominant force here. And the idea is, you know, theoretically that they are going to, you know, just take another kind of shot.

[01:06:26] There are different options and they are, you know, they're looking ultimately Jackie and James are going to be the nominees from Liz's side. And then Jason and once again, Johnny Mac are going to be the nominees the other side. But and so and this is really I we talked a lot about like the dangers of saying yes to like people putting you on the block.

[01:06:56] And this is the thing. It was like as soon as Johnny Mac said yes, the first time they just kept going back to that. Well, and so ultimately, Jason and Johnny Mac end up staying on the block, leaving Shelly as the HOH and Vanessa wins the veto.

[01:07:16] Now, this is a week where the Audrey situation started to really come to a head because again, it was kind of like, well, Audrey should be the target. However, this is the first week since basically the beginning of the game that Audrey actually felt kind of comfortable because after the first week that Shelly didn't put her on the block, she was like, well, I'm close with Liz. I'm close with Shelly. I'm actually good this week. I've got some freedom to play.

[01:07:47] And once she started playing more, she kept running into Vanessa's fingerprints everywhere. Right. And so that was an issue because she started to go to Shelly and be like, I think I don't know. We can trust Vanessa. And and then, of course, you know, Vanessa found out about this. And then Vanessa's on to Shelly on to Audrey, which is very bad.

[01:08:11] And then again, on top of that, Audrey is kind of like doing what kind of got her in trouble the first time. And she's getting caught saying different things, different people. And this time with Vanessa trying to get the knife at her throat, there was there was really no no stopping. And Shelly kind of reluctantly is like, I have to do it. I have no I've no like thing stopping me anymore.

[01:08:38] They do that whole thing where, you know, Clay is like, well, you were you were concerned that she would backdoor you. And Audrey's like, I didn't say that. And he's like, yes, you did. I can't believe you're denying it. And, you know, they have this whole big blow up. And ultimately, Audrey is backdoored, betrayed, hurt. And yes, this is when she starts the blanketing. The blanketing, obviously very iconic.

[01:09:06] But she also earns herself a penalty vote for this week as she was a have not. And they were worried because she wasn't really eating. She was just staying in the have not room and sleeping. And she was in full blanket form. And I think as James comes in, it was like, I just want her to know that, like, you know, on a personal level, we all care for her. We want to make sure that she's eating and that she's OK. And I just, you know, I think he makes her eggs or something like that and gives it to her. And when he leaves, you see her eating.

[01:09:35] And I've always enjoyed that portion of this cast, too, is that they could be at each other's throats strategically. But there was always like a genuine human level to them, too, which I liked. And so she she eats when she's a have not. They give her a penalty vote and she is evicted. Yes. You know, there's definitely a lot of reason to look at this and say this is probably where Shelly screwed up. Was Audrey reliable? No, not really.

[01:10:04] Was Audrey trustworthy for anybody? No, probably not really. Not any more than Vanessa was. But Vanessa ultimately also turned out to be very dangerous. And and because Vanessa actually had more sway in the house this time, she was more dangerous than Audrey was. Audrey was a bit more loyal to Shelly than than Vanessa turned out to be at the very least.

[01:10:29] But ultimately, probably they end up with a similar issue because, you know, the argument was correct that like nobody's going to target Audrey over Shelly and Clay if they want to take a shot at that point. Whereas you might target Vanessa over Shelly and Clay because she's more dangerous. So there's there's, you know, arguments back and forth. But either way, this was the end for Audrey and theoretically the end of that chaos.

[01:10:55] But Vanessa really continued to take up that mantle as she and Jackie win the following HOH. And the things again get real weird here because this is the final week before the twin twist expires and the Liz and Julie are able to enter the game together.

[01:11:16] So Austin kind of decides to take it upon himself to to kind of like make a make a play. He goes and he talks to Jason and says to him something along the lines of like, you know how everyone suspected that the Liz is a twin. She is a twin. Her sister's Julia. But I have fallen in love with Liz. I don't really care about Julia. All right.

[01:11:46] So this is that's my thing about this whole situation. Like he's opening up. The idea from Austin is that he's opening up to Jason, that he's worried that people might want to target Liz in the first place. And this is Liz is going to be nominated by by Jackie. This is one of the reasons why he wants to get in front of that. He wants to basically say, like, they already suspect that that the that they're twins.

[01:12:11] So if I try to help distance myself from at least one of them and, you know, kind of present that opportunity of like, hey, maybe, you know, we can work together with Liz, something along those lines. Then we I can help keep Liz in the game. And and then and then her her sister can come in. And Jason immediately rats this conversation out.

[01:12:36] And because he now knows the name of Julia and the specifics, it's very clear that Austin has made this decision and made this move and told him things. This comes back to Vanessa and Shelly and them and they go, oh, my God, this guy has turned on us. Why is he going to Jason and revealing these secrets? Remember, these are the secrets that bonded this group together in the first place for him to go rogue and expose it was a huge betrayal.

[01:13:05] And when Vanessa questions him about it, he denies it, which is wild because there's clear evidence that you did this because they know the names. But he's like, I just I I didn't want her to know. I didn't want her to be mad at me and think I screwed up. So I didn't want to admit it. And so at this point, Vanessa's like, OK, time to pivot. She talks to Julia about it. Like, hey, guess what? Austin said he wants you gone so he can like chill with Liz.

[01:13:33] And Julia is like, oh, that's screwed up. I hate this guy. And so from Vanessa's point of view. It's time to cut Austin. Yeah, she because, you know, she Jackie's not on her side of the house, so they need to come to some kind of conclusion together. They make a deal that the plan is to take out Austin this week. And Vanessa is willing to give Jackie the HOH so that Jackie can make that move.

[01:14:01] In the meantime, her and Jackie and Jason and James and Meg and all of those people on the other side, they're going to make a deal with Vanessa. They're going to make an alliance with Vanessa, Shelly and Clay. I think they called it the bad moon or something. I don't know. I don't know. And Austin is going to go. And so James is nominated alongside Liz so that James can throw the battle. A dark moon. Thank you.

[01:14:30] It's in the chat. Very short-lived alliance. I often, I actually remember, I've mistakenly referred to the original big alliance as the dark moon alliance, but it was actually this alliance that was a very quickly failed alliance. James is supposed to throw the battle of the block next to Liz so that he can keep Liz on the block. Jackie can then backdoor Austin and everything can go smoothly.

[01:14:57] Problem is, Liz wins the battle of the block anyway. And that leaves Vanessa as the HOH. Oof, frustrating. Now she's the one that's going to have to make this move, but she's going to make it. She's made this deal with them. And, you know, she does feel like, you know, Austin has betrayed her.

[01:15:18] And so it's time to follow through on this, maintain this new structure with dark moon, take down Austin, and then she'll have the twins to herself because they're kind of on board with this. The one thing she has to do first is just make sure that Liz, who's now in the house, is on board with this too. She has to give Liz the heads up. Tell Liz the same thing she told Julia. Liz surely will be just as mad. Surely we'll want Austin gone just as much. She tells Liz about what happened. And Liz goes, oh yeah, I knew about that.

[01:15:48] He told me about that. This is what he was trying to do. She's like, well, what do you mean? He told them all of this information. He's like, you know, doing all this stuff. And Liz is like, I mean, I get it. I just think he's stupid. I don't think he's malicious. And that is a very key argument because now Vanessa's like, all right, maybe I should talk to Austin and let him explain himself. And so she pulls Austin up and she's like, listen, what did you do?

[01:16:17] What did you do? And he finally admits it. And she's like, what are you doing? He's like, I'm sorry. I'm just like, I've fallen in love with Liz. And I thought that I could do this to distance myself from Julia. And I just thought it was a good idea. But I'm sorry. I screwed up. I'm just bad. I'm stupid. I get it.

[01:16:44] And she's like, Austin, you know, I got to put someone up right now. And there's a lot of people who, you know, want you up. And he's like, wait, you might put me. Are you serious? No, Vanessa, come on. Like, not like this. And very famous. He begs for his life. Like, just begs and says, I am loyal to you. I promise. I just did a stupid thing. It was not intended to betray you. I was not trying to do anything malicious.

[01:17:14] And convinces her over a long period of time that like. He is loyal. He's just he just made a dumb decision. Uh, now I've he's she's like, Austin, I gave my word to a lot of people that he do this. He's like, are you for real? Uh, she's like, well, yeah, I mean, you kind of put me in this spot.

[01:17:39] Um, and so ultimately has to at the very last minute back out of the dark moon deal and blindside Jason, uh, by putting him on the block instead of, uh, of Austin. And, uh, it is going to piss off quite dramatically the rest of the house. And is this, I, you know, I'm honestly, I get my weeks mixed up a little bit, but I think

[01:18:05] this inspires them to kind of really form the alternate side of the house alliance of the goblins. Yeah. I mean, they've been kind of working together, uh, since the very beginning, this is still the remnants of the Davon side of the house. Um, but, uh, but they, they do start calling themselves the goblins after this week, I believe. Um, and, and that was primarily like, uh, James and Meg and Jackie.

[01:18:33] Um, but it also had like the extension a little bit of like, uh, like Becky and, and, and them, um, and, and Jason, of course. Um, and so, uh, but, but yeah, they're, I mean, they're pissed. They're like, I can't believe that they just betrayed us. Like what happened? And this is again, where that previous Vanessa HOH week really came into play because people were noticing how come we're all shocked and bothered, but Shelly and Clay are just kind of chilling.

[01:19:03] Um, and they kind of naturally come to the conclusion that Vanessa's, yeah, she's a wild player. Um, and you know, she made this deal with us and then immediately went back on it. Like what is wrong with Vanessa? Vanessa. But how come Shelly and Clay are sitting back and, and, and like, just like benefiting from everything happening. Um, and they come to the conclusion that Shelly and Clay are the people pulling Vanessa's puppet

[01:19:30] strings, uh, that Shelly and Clay are the real power behind Vanessa, that they wanted this move to happen and they got Vanessa to do their bidding. Um, and Vanessa is happy to let them kind of think that, uh, and this starts a little bit of turmoil between Vanessa and Shelly and Clay because they are recognizing like, wait, why are we getting heat for this one? This was all your move. And Vanessa's like, what are you talking about? I'm going to get heat just as much as you. And they're like, are you though? She's like, I can't believe you would even say that to me.

[01:19:57] Um, and so, uh, this is again, it's very, very key because after they vote Jason out the following week, uh, James ends up winning the following HOH. Um, but, uh, I guess before we do, we should, we should, uh, speak on, on Jason here who I always felt was, um, and a sort of like a player that, uh, had more potential. I think we saw that potential to some degree fulfilled in the following spinoff season

[01:20:26] OTT, which I often forget about. Um, but, uh, he was very likable, very social and certainly had strategic savvy to him. Um, but, uh, but yeah, just fell victim to, uh, to Austin's begging basically. You know, I think that what's fascinating here is that I think Vanessa does calculate this.

[01:20:52] Hey, we got rid of Dave on and a lot of people said it's because she speaks up and all that kind of stuff. Right. And Jason was just with her. There's just this idea that like anybody who spoke up, but wasn't with Shelly and clay, uh, needed to go. And I think that she had this incentive in her mind of like, I think Jason is the only one on the other side of the house. That is an actual threat.

[01:21:18] Um, and especially since this is the person that Austin felt like he could talk to, we need to get him out so that he doesn't have that temptation again. Um, and so I do think it's really smart of her to, to kind of sit back and be like, yeah, let me see if there's ways for me to like minimize my target, even though I'm the one making the move and making people mad. So when Shelly and clay start getting the heat, um, it's, it really does. Yeah.

[01:21:46] It's going to cause that controversy, but at the end of the day, it's, it's benefits Vanessa and Austin and the twins so, so much because people are going to go, well, let's go after the showmance. Right. Um, so Vanessa just really is so good at picking and choosing and, and figuring out how to present this information and where to be very truthful and where to make a problem where there is none. Um, and then act like that's the truth.

[01:22:16] Yeah. And I mean, she's willing to communicate in spots where other people don't, uh, because maybe it's too hard or too awkward. Uh, again, same thing with the twin situation. She was the one that was willing to go and talk to Liz about it. And when she goes and talks to James and, uh, or, uh, Shelly and clay, um, about, about all this, like, yeah, they get into arguments, but they are talking about it.

[01:22:41] And when it comes down to it, after James, uh, nominates Shelly and clay, the people, they, the person they turn on is not Vanessa. It's Austin because they don't have that relationship with Austin. They haven't talked with him, even though they had a fight with Vanessa about this, but I'm getting ahead of myself. Um, so with, uh, with Jason's eviction, the twin twist has succeeded and Julia joins the

[01:23:08] game and the battle of the block ends, uh, which means that no more can the big alliance just be in a crushing position. They are vulnerable to an outsider winning. And wouldn't you know it, James wins this HOH. Now, very importantly, he wins this HOH. Uh, it's an endurance competition, very famously James, very good at these. Uh, he has this very famous squatting, uh, position that they eventually sort of outlaw

[01:23:38] or restrict. Um, but, uh, Shelly is up on the wall with him, the final person there, uh, and makes a deal with James. She says, James, I will give you this HOH. If you promise me and clay will not be nominated. Um, and he says, sure. And then says in the diary room, yeah, I'm going to tell her what she wants to hear.

[01:24:06] Mike boogie says you can bounce checks in the big brother house. I mean, let's be honest. The, there are already two sides to the house. What is Shelly trying to get out of him? Really? Like if he lies, that just benefits his side of the house. So there's no incentive. So if she learned from the Vanessa school of game theory, there's no incentive for him

[01:24:33] to tell the truth there, especially since he's in a good position of where he's at. This was, I think she's just getting tired and she just wants to fall, but doesn't want to stick through it. That to me is just like such a fatal flaw in what I felt like Shelly had so much potential as a player, but this is really, I think the nail in the coffin for her is just trusting that, well, if he lies, he lies in front of the full house. Okay. Half the house isn't even working with him and doesn't care. The other house is working with him and is going to be doing the bidding that they want.

[01:25:02] So they don't care. So it just, it was a flawed plan to begin with. Listen, Kaser taught us this ages ago. Exactly. So Vanessa very cleverly goes to James after he wins the HOH. Now she's the one that made the deal with them and then turned around and stabbed them in the back, blindsiding them and taking out their favorite person, Jason.

[01:25:26] So she really should be the target here or at least nominated, but she goes to James and she says, listen, I'm alone in this game. You saw it when Shelly was up on that wall with you. Who did she ask for a deal for herself and clay? I'm on the outside of that. And James is like, you're so right. That's so them. Now in reality, of course, we know at least people who watch the feeds because and the

[01:25:56] show, this still didn't exist. But we know that Vanessa has an entire other power structure called the freaks and geeks that includes Austin, now both of the twins and Steve, and will also retain the remainder of Shelly and Clay. So she is far more dangerous than the two of them at this point. But she successfully manages to convince him like, yeah, I can't believe they're doing that.

[01:26:25] And then she goes and talks to Shelly and Clay and she's like, why? Like they're mad at her because they're taking heat for what she did. And they were kind of rightfully mad. And Clay gets a little bit heated and Shelly's like, no, no, she's just stopping. Vanessa's like, I can't believe you would say this to me that I, after what I did, we made this decision together. And Shelly's like, Vanessa, Vanessa, please, please, Vanessa, please. And I just can't even do this anymore.

[01:26:53] She walks out to the backyard and she's like, I can't believe I was, I was just having an argument with them. And I said, this decision we made together and they're trying to pin it all on me. And they're like, oh, Vanessa, that's what they do. That's, that's why they need to go, Vanessa. And then later Shelly, Shelly genuinely was like, I'm so sorry about what Clay did. You know, I'm going to need you in this game moving forward. Um, and, and they take all of the heat. They take all of the heat for this. Shelly and Clay are nominated together.

[01:27:22] James wins the veto. He doesn't use it, uh, despite their attempts at trying to get him to backdoor Austin instead. And ultimately, uh, Clay is the one that goes home here. Importantly though, he was not the original target. Um, uh, Shelly was the more dangerous of the two from the perspective of the goblins. Um, and they had a better relationship with Clay. Clay was trying to say, vote me out, which is only making them want to keep him more.

[01:27:48] Um, but Vanessa obviously was closer to Shelly and wanted Clay gone. But the fact that Vanessa was campaigning for Shelly to stay and for Clay to go only kind of made them want to do the opposite. Because despite the fact that, that they were happy to let Clay and Shelly take the heat, they did not forget what Vanessa did. They were still not happy with Vanessa and they didn't want Vanessa and Shelly to team back up. So it was kind of a slam dunk. Keep Clay, take down Shelly.

[01:28:17] Problem is a couple of things. One, Vanessa kind of had the numbers anyway, because of the freaks and geeks. Number two, she was great at manufacturing drama. And so, um, Johnny Mac of all people goes to Clay and says, listen, I really want to keep you around because I think that Vanessa has been whispering poison into the ear of Shelly all game long. And I don't think she'll be able to do that with you. And I want you in this game. And Clay goes to, uh, to Vanessa and says, Hey, Johnny Mac said this about you.

[01:28:48] Um, yeah. And this is this the week then where she, um, where she has the theory that Clay and Johnny Mac are either cousins and related or they're gay lovers or something like that. Yeah. That's sort of like, how did we get here moment? Uh, and, and it starts here. It starts here because Clay tells Vanessa this. Vanessa uses this as an opportunity and genuinely is mad about it, um, to go, Oh, wow. I can't believe this. James betrayed me.

[01:29:18] Um, and she goes and she pulls James aside and she says, James, have you been telling Johnny Mac that I'm like controlling Shelly and doing all this stuff? And James is like, no, no, absolutely not. Let's confront whoever saying this. Um, and so then they go and she pulls Johnny Mac into a room to question him while James grabs Clay and is like, what are you saying about me? And Clay's like, what do you mean? And he's like, are you going to hit me?

[01:29:48] You're going to hit me. And they're doing that whole thing. Meanwhile, Vanessa's like interrogating Johnny Mac. Did James tell you that I was controlling Shelly? No. Uh, it was like, what do you mean? No, don't lie to me, Johnny Mac. I know what's going on. He's like, I don't know. I didn't say anything like that. Um, in the meantime, outside, they're like, Oh, are you going to hit me? And then they, then Vanessa and Johnny Mac go out and they're like, what's going on? She goes to Clay. She's, did you not tell me that James said to Johnny Mac that I was controlling Shelly?

[01:30:17] He goes, Oh no, I didn't say that. I said Johnny Mac told him. And she goes to Johnny Mac. She's like, Johnny Mac. Who told you that? He goes, nobody. That, that came from me. And she goes, you're lying, Johnny Mac. I know that didn't come from you. I know you didn't have that on your own. Somebody put it into your head. Johnny Mac, who are you protecting? He's like, I don't know. That's why I kind of been thinking this whole game is that you're kind of dangerous and you

[01:30:46] kind of get into people's heads. I don't know. Uh, and she's like, Nope, I don't believe it. There's something going on. You two are cousins or gay lovers or something. Um, so iconic. And the best part about this too, is that if he got it from anybody, it's probably Becky with whom like all of us in the feeds are sitting there going, is there going to be a showmance with Johnny Mac and Becky? Which by the way, I can't believe we've made it this far.

[01:31:16] And we haven't mentioned that Becky was hit in the face with a train just the year before and production thought it was appropriate to always have a train. Always remind you. Always, always remind you that she was hit in the face with a train. Um, no plastic surgery though. And she was, I think on the other side of the house, she's kind of like on the outside of that goblins, like on like the tendrils of it. She's not in the inner group. She's on the outside. She and Johnny Mac are very much kind of in that position.

[01:31:44] Johnny Mac is also kind of with Steve. Steve is kind of like, you know, mostly doing his own thing, but he has this relationship with Johnny. And Becky is really the one that I think out of everybody on that side of the house. And Johnny's been saying this kind of stuff in the diary room for like a week or so too. They're the two that are very much like Vanessa is a threat, but everybody else is more than happy to go. Let's split up the couple first. Cause that's more important. They're a duo. We need to get rid of one of them.

[01:32:14] But even more importantly than that, I do think it's important to say, like, I think, you know, Meg has a crush on Clay. So that's why she wants him to stick around. You know, maybe she can be in the showmance with Clay once Shelly's onto the house. This is also the last week before jury. So we know that whoever, if we get a duo out now, that is a jury vote. We don't have to worry about should we make it to the end with the other one. So there's a lot of strategic play as to why not to bring up Vanessa.

[01:32:41] So it's so funny to me that because of Johnny Mac's reputation in this game, because Becky really doesn't have this huge alliance or a really good connection that has agency and power. This is really seen as there's no way it could come from Johnny Mac or whatever. It has to come from Clay, from James, from somebody who has more agency. I mean, this was the most accurate read of Vanessa in the game thus far.

[01:33:11] And so the fact that it came from Johnny Mac, of all people, was unbelievable to her. But yeah, I mean, that's what he genuinely had just been thinking that the whole time. And importantly as well, he's had his own thing with Steve for a while. And a lot of this information also comes from Steve. Now, Steve has not been trying to poison Johnny Mac to Vanessa by any means.

[01:33:34] But Johnny Mac has bits of knowledge from both Becky and Steve that helps him see Vanessa for who she is that a lot of other people were not able to see. So ultimately, this lands and Clay is evicted. They take him down and Vanessa and Shelly are ready to fight a war, right?

[01:34:01] Except Becky wins the HOH. Toot toot. Here we come. Chugga, chugga, chugga into the HOH room. Yes. And she wants Vanessa gone. She does not want to be distracted. Now, the previous week they said it doesn't matter who goes between Clay and Shelly because the other one will follow them right out the door. We all agree with this, right? You agree with this, Becky? Yes. Okay.

[01:34:29] So Becky immediately says, I don't want Shelly gone. I want Vanessa gone. And she convinces everyone. Yeah, you know what? You're right. Vanessa is more dangerous right now. Vanessa is somebody that we should take down. But Becky does not want to give her any chances to stay. So she nominates Shelly and Steve again. And with the intention to backdoor Vanessa.

[01:34:59] Now, again, everyone's on board, especially Johnny Mac. Even Steve is kind of like looking to pivot from this point. Again, he's been working closely with Vanessa all season long. But now he sees that the writing is kind of on the wall. If Vanessa ends up on the block, then she's probably going to go home. He starts actually pivoting toward Shelly. Like Shelly might be the new person I need to go to. He's going to get in some trouble for that later. But basically the plan goes through.

[01:35:28] Despite Shelly picking Vanessa for the veto, Vanessa does not win the veto. So Steve ends up winning the veto. Takes himself off the block and Vanessa is backdoored. Some people will take exception to that phrasing because she technically did play in the veto. But the intention was to backdoor her in the first place. She has now been put on the block. She does not have the votes to stay. So a few things happen.

[01:35:56] One is that Vanessa very, very smartly sort of, first of all, already recognized. She was like trying. It was very funny. She went to Becky early on and was like, Becky, I just feel alone in this. Basically doing the same thing she did to James. I'm just alone in this game. And I just feel like I would love to work with you. And Becky was just like, I see right through this girl. Like, I can't believe a blessed word she says.

[01:36:25] She's like, you know, I'm just done with deals and stuff. I don't know. And Becky is just having none of it from Vanessa. And it drives Vanessa up a wall. Vanessa gets nominated. And Vanessa's like, can you just explain to me what just happened? Like, why were you so aggressive and venomous to me in that speech? Like, what is going on? I thought we gave our words last week. And Becky's like, I don't feel like I gave my word willingly. I feel like you pointed your finger in my face and said, do I have your word?

[01:36:55] And Vanessa says, why are you? I'm the one nominated right now. I can't believe you're acting like this. Like, you're the victim. And so what she does to help get herself off the block is not really go too deep on the defensive to Shelly, who she's up against on the block. The first thing she does is she flips James and the goblins on Becky because Becky's the one driving this.

[01:37:21] And so if she can convince them that Becky's not cool with them, that Becky's not good for their games, then they will feel very free to be open to think about changing the vote, which is exactly what happens. Vanessa convinces James that Becky is working with other people like Johnny Mac and that she's going to try and take shots at him next once she's gone. And so he brings that back to the goblins.

[01:37:46] Like, why are we doing Becky's dirty work for her when we know that Shelly is bad for us? Shelly is also coming for us. She's working with Shelly. She wants Shelly to stay. And then there's also some drama regarding Clay's hoodie, which was stolen. I forgot about that. Which Vanessa was able to use as a thing to be like, look, see, she doesn't forgive you for what you did to Clay. She's always going to hate you. She's always going to come for you.

[01:38:15] And so with that, plus Austin and the twins sort of going to bat for her, she manages to turn this around and get the vote flipped onto Shelly. Steve gets a little bit caught with his pants down, having already been working on the world where Vanessa didn't exist anymore and has to apologize to Vanessa profusely. But Vanessa survives the backdoor. And this is when we lose Shelly.

[01:38:45] What a force she was in the game, but just a couple of bad HOH outcomes and that was it. Agreed. And I think the thing that's really fascinating with this week, too, is just how much Vanessa goes to Becky and says, I'm alone in this game. But she's saying it to somebody who genuinely really is kind of alone in the game and has the power to do whatever she wants.

[01:39:07] And I think that I've always interpreted her being able to kind of see that with Becky and then try to, like, take on as if that is how she is. Like, this is how Becky is. And now I can use that as a weapon to say everybody should be after her. Steve's already mad at her. She thinks that there's some kind of he should put her up twice. And so Steve's going to be easy to to go against whatever Becky wants. Right.

[01:39:34] Johnny Mac is going to probably want to see the writing on the wall and then make a decision because he's not one to vote against what's happening in the house because he is playing the middle for the most part. And it's I just this is the week where the goblins start being really fun on or at least the past couple of weeks, the goblins have been a lot of fun on feeds. And we're seeing that they're trying, but they're just not nearly anything strategically compared to the other side of the house.

[01:40:04] So really, you have the side of the house that is like fun and personable and such to watch on the feeds. And then you have the side of the house that's just constantly gaming and metagaming and thinking of all these different things. And the source of it is always Vanessa. But it like expands out of her like a ripple of water to everybody else in these different alliances.

[01:40:24] So it is just fascinating to me to watch her just completely take on what other people's positions are and then also be able to weaponize that as if it's a bad thing for them, but not for her. Yeah. And this, again, shows the genius of the way that Vanessa was able to play the game is that she and I think I spoke on this at the time that like she's a player that I could that like would socially basically never make the move that I want her to make.

[01:40:50] But strategically was the player I could trust more than like any other player in existence, that she would always know how to see things properly and explain them to others properly. So she was constantly building worlds for people that said, this is why it's best for your game to keep me around because you can't work with Becky and Becky's trying to work with Shelly and Shelly's never going to forgive you about Clay.

[01:41:17] And all of those pieces connect together to mean that you should keep me around and open the pathway for you to do so. She was never good enough to like convince people that she was trustworthy or people liked her, but she was able to convince them that the world around them was pointing them in the direction of what she wanted. She was so fiercely in the logic sense. And so people just assumed whatever she talked about made logistical sense.

[01:41:45] And that is such a key part of who she is, not just from game theory and understanding incentives and the people that you're talking to, and not just an incredible communicator. And like the people who are the best communicators in this world are those that are able to truly transform what they are saying and how they are saying it to each and every person they talk to. So they can manipulate them and whatever. And I don't mean that even negatively. I mean, that's how leaders inspire people is to know how to communicate with people on an individual basis as well.

[01:42:14] What I think is interesting, and I want to give just a little bit of props to Steve this week, even though, I mean, because of course I'm biased, but I'm also just like, he knows, like take how she approaches Austin versus how she approaches Steve, right? Two very different people. That's a plus to her game as we're talking about. But Steve knows to apologize and to provide the reason why, because she thinks logically, right?

[01:42:42] So she is able to, you know, kind of calm down after a while and go, yeah, okay. This is how Steve is able in the later game to kind of get his way with her, which is a huge mistake on her part. Steve is the only person who is able to betray Vanessa multiple times and still get her to trust him. And that is the key thing that I don't think enough people give him credit for because it wasn't on the show.

[01:43:06] If you watch the feeds, Becky's the only person that she, like the crying emotional thing doesn't work on. And so we give Becky props for that, right? But it doesn't help her because she doesn't think of anything outside of that. Steve does a really good job of being like, I'm the only person because of who I am and I need to play this up. I need to, yeah, I'm going to write her coattails at times, but there's also got to be things I got to look for myself.

[01:43:33] Because Vanessa really saw Steve as like an apprentice to her. Like she could like, she was like trying to teach him how to play the game at times. And like, you even see this when he cuts her at the end. He's like, you always told me I have to make the move to justify to my family at home and those kinds of things, right? She literally is giving him all the tools, but because he has a better social game, which is hard for people to understand, but he has a better social game. She has a better strategic game.

[01:44:02] He's able to pull out some stuff out of her and make her trip and fall at times and really lead to her not being successful because he can see through her. Yeah. And this week was, was really important to me at the time because it was around this time. I was again on the podcast with the little bit of, of time that I had, I was saying all of the things about what Vanessa was doing. And then I was also saying, uh, by the way, like who's the second best player? It's Steve. Uh, I know he hasn't been in the episodes, but like watch out.

[01:44:32] Um, and, and a lot of the pushback to that was like, no, he's just one of Vanessa's lackeys. And so this was the week where I was like, no, he was actively working to take Vanessa out that week. He was like jumping ship, um, and then was forced to come back on. And then we go into the double eviction where he accidentally wins the HOH. Um, he's been throwing them, uh, very openly throwing a lot of competitions, very actively playing the position that he wanted to be in.

[01:45:01] When, uh, Becky nominates him, he's like, yeah, yeah. I'm lying low. Like chill. Don't tell everyone. Um, and so he accidentally wins double eviction HOH. He nominates, uh, Jackie and Meg. Johnny Mac wins the veto. Doesn't use it. They vote Jackie out. And he's like, damn it. I screwed up. I should not have won that. It's not what I wanted to do. I was good with both sides of the house.

[01:45:27] Like now I've sort of picked a side and I'm like a threat to somebody that might be nominated. Like this is not good. And so he plays into his character. He cries to the twins and Vanessa. And then he goes into, uh, the room with the remnants of the goblins. And they're like, why Steve, why would you do that? And he says, I, she's just the only person I've heard has said my name. Like, what do you mean? She's never said your name.

[01:45:56] She loved you, Steve. Uh, who would have told you that? And he goes, probably the person you would think, you know? Um, and he, and Vanessa takes all of the heat for it. Um, and, and he comes away completely clean there. Uh, again, never targeted by them, uh, moving forward. Not that they had an opportunity to, um, but, uh, but basically like he was very, very willing

[01:46:23] to throw Vanessa under the bus to, to send Vanessa out at various points. Um, and it just never made enough sense to actually pull the trigger or, or in the case of her being on the block, just like she managed to get herself out of it and he had to re-pivot. But, uh, yeah, very much so iconic double eviction win, uh, accidental, um, from Steve, which only further made people annoyed that he was like doing her bidding is it worked on the audience too. The audience also was like, he's just doing what Vanessa wants him to. Yeah.

[01:46:53] And this is where I want to give production just the slightest bit of props because I'm so happy they kept the part in on the feeds where he's crying to the twins. And by the way, now he's got the twins and like, they're just like, Oh, poor Steve and rubbing his bag. We got to protect him. And that did actually solidify that he was going to be a bigger part of the Ostwins plan. And so he is, he spent this whole week potentially being like, okay, Shelly, Shelly, Shelly.

[01:47:23] But part of that is really the Ostwins, you know? And so when he does this move, instead of putting both of the twins up or putting Liz and Austin up, like everybody thought that people would do or try to get Vanessa out, it actually strengthens that side of the house and to help his game. But the best part that production does is they, you know, the twins leave and they're like, and then he looks up and he's like only 50% acting or something like that. Right.

[01:47:50] And it is the best because that is what he was like on the feeds all the time. People would leave and then he'd go, okay, here's what I really think about this. And he would talk to the camera and it was a shame that they didn't put more things like that. They, I felt like they really spent most of the time not knowing what to do with the Steve character and being like, well, I guess we'll have a segment about him being a little weird, you know, and, you know, Steve stop that.

[01:48:16] And like, whatever he's doing in like, oh, he's, I'm just a goofy guy. Stefan. Yeah. Like, oh gosh. But all of those aspects are really the things that played into his social game and him for to be able to play into the character of who he was. So yeah, the goblins didn't end up blaming him, even though it was completely his fault. I, it does kind of get back to Vanessa that she's getting all the heat for this, but she doesn't think that it's really Steve's fault at the time.

[01:48:42] Like she understands like, oh, this is just the goblins projecting like, but she doesn't really know how hard Steve is throwing her under the bus until like a little later in the week. I think I, although I could be wrong. Well, so things get, things get kind of sketchy for Vanessa following this. Liz wins the next HOH and, uh, and she is targeting, you know, Becky and Johnny Mac.

[01:49:10] Um, which is like the idea that they would have, you know, done. Right. Um, however, Becky has some information that Johnny Mac is going to back up, uh, that then the, the goblins are going to back up, which is essentially like, do you know how close Vanessa was to backdooring you all those weeks ago? Uh, like James was nominated specifically to throw the competition next to Liz. Did you know that?

[01:49:39] Um, and this to Austin is like, whoa, now that's kind of how they present it. I think the reality is that like Austin was always going to kind of think about turning on Vanessa. And this just gave him a reason, uh, to do it. Um, so they start thinking about Vanessa as a threat, as a danger, as they should. She just got herself out of that backdoor situation. Now she's being blamed for what Steve did. This is also a key part of this.

[01:50:07] If Vanessa could influence Steve in the way that she did, that's really dangerous. Johnny Mac starts talking about like, she's not a person. Like she, like, uh, like she's, she influenced, uh, and Becky's like, she moves. She's a mover of people. Um, like she's dangerous. She's a prophet. No. They try to get Liz to, to take her out. Liz also wins the veto. Liz decides though, uh, as does Austin and, uh, Julia that they do not want to take the shot quite yet.

[01:50:35] Um, and they send Becky out the door. It's a pretty straightforward week, but basically Liz and then Austin, who's about to win the following HOH. And then Liz again, the week after that have a three week stretch of control here, which they used to take over the game. Um, and minimize Vanessa's power as much as possible. Um, they think over the course of these three weeks that they have completely neutered Vanessa, that she is, has nowhere left to go.

[01:51:02] And that's partially why they don't need to take the shot themselves. In the meantime, they're choosing which people they want to work with. Um, once they take Becky out, they've got Steve and Johnny Mac on one side, they've got, uh, Meg and James on another side. Uh, and then they have sort of like Vanessa over here. Um, and so of those three, uh, this is kind of like the most boring stretch of the season

[01:51:32] because they're just hanging out with, with Meg and James all day, every day. They're playing pot ball. James is playing pranks and they call their Alliance, the brass tacks. Um, and, and Austin wants to go with them. Like that's kind of the deal. Like Austin decides, uh, I prefer this crew. Um, and so he nominates Johnny Mac and Steve following Becky's eviction, um, with the intent

[01:52:01] to, you know, potentially take out Johnny Mac. Um, but also potentially backdoor Vanessa and then work between the two. The problem is Steve is not willing to play ball. Steve is like, no, I'm not going to let, just let you nominate me next to Johnny Mac. And then let you claim to me that you're siding with me over James and Meg. It's clear that you're siding with James and Meg. Um, on top of that, Vanessa wins that veto. And that basically forces Johnny Mac out of the game. Uh, very temporarily.

[01:52:31] Well, that's the other factor of this is that they're told at the end of the Becky eviction. So they know going into this week that the first four jurors are going to be competing to come back into the house. So part of the, I think when the jury started, they said, uh, you go to the jury doesn't mean that you're not going to come back in. Exactly. And so when Becky's evicted, that's when Julie reveals, Hey, by the way, next week is going to be this competition.

[01:52:55] So any of the four first evicted or jury members are going to compete to come back in. And so part of the consideration for Austin turns into who stands more of a chance to beat Shelly and Becky and Jackie. It's probably, I don't want to have a James and met. Well, Meg would be fine, but I don't want to put mess up James in this relationship because

[01:53:21] he could easily come back in and be bad for my game versus I don't think that Johnny or Steve could be any of those other people who don't have as much beef against me. They have more beef against Vanessa. So I think that that ended up being a big factor for him too, was trying to say, I think Steve and Johnny are the safer people to put up to be evicted. Vanessa does, like you said, when the power of veto and she doesn't use it. So it's the two of them.

[01:53:49] And they're just thinking, okay, one of them's going to go, there'll be a jury member and somebody is going to come back, but whoever it is, it's not, it's going to minimize the damage for Austin. And so they do, they have the buyback. Johnny Mac wins his way back into the house immediately. And that HOH is basically nullified. And, and then Vanessa wins the following HOH. And I think I might've said that there were three block of HOH.

[01:54:18] Vanessa wins the one in between here. Um, and this is important, right? Because, uh, oh, and yes, I've, I apologize. We, I kind of summarized, uh, these weeks, but this is when Austin gives his infamous, uh, victims. Aren't we all speech during nominations when he nominates, uh, Steve and Johnny Mac. Um, so, uh, Vanessa wins the following HOH.

[01:54:43] And now it's time for everyone to start panicking because everyone's been counting Vanessa out at this point. Everyone's been saying her name. And so, uh, Austin and the twins, the Aust twins now known as this point at this point, because they've been separated from Vanessa. So I think this is also, by the way, like around the time they introduce the freaks and geeks now

[01:55:07] known as scamper squad Alliance into the show, like at around the Liz Austin HOH weeks. It's been going on for a month and a half at this point. And we're like, oh, thank you for, uh, bringing us up to speed on this news. Because I believe what happened is that they referred to themselves as the freaks and geeks for a really long time. And then were informed at around this time that they needed to come up with a different name,

[01:55:33] uh, which was, which told them and Steve, oh, this Alliance hasn't been in the show until now. Um, that's interesting information. That I think is such a key part of understanding Steve as a fan in the house, who also is just very good at understanding what things mean. Right.

[01:55:56] So I think this only helps him to better understand what kind of position he might have in the house. Um, and I, when we see this next week, because Vanessa's going to have an HOH as we're talking about, but there's also a double eviction again. And that same night of who her nominees are going to go, are going to be the first one to go. And then there's going to be another one the same night. So he's already going to be thinking like, oh, okay, I need to start having a little bit

[01:56:24] more agency or I'm playing things well. Like he's having multiple different thoughts at this point. Um, basically being able to say like, well, I'm not the plot. So therefore I think I'm doing well, um, or I'm not the plot, which means maybe other people don't see my game and I need to be a little bit more visible, especially as we're going to get more visible when there's less people in the house. And he certainly makes like makes the attempt at more agency here when he pulls in Johnny Mac and they try to do what they're, they're trying to do here.

[01:56:53] And they try to get this, uh, onto Vanessa. It doesn't work. Johnny Mac gets voted out, but then immediately comes back in. But Vanessa wins that HOH. And so now everyone's scrambling to point fingers. Um, and so Austin and the twins are like, Hey, you can be mad at us for like kind of ignoring you for the last couple of weeks. Or you could be mad at Steve because he told us all about what you've been doing and how you should go. And so she goes and confronts Steve and he has to again, apologize, um, and convince her

[01:57:21] like, Hey, I was just put, uh, you know, my back was against the wall. I didn't mean for it to be like that. Um, and ultimately, uh, make convince her like you can't waste time on me when the reality is what was shown to us is that Austin and the twins chose Meg and James over, over me and Johnny Mac, but also over you. Um, and so, uh, they are the real threat here. And so she has to focus on, uh, Meg and James.

[01:57:51] Um, but James wins the veto and Vanessa has to, uh, is then forced to, to pick a nomination outside of the two of them. Um, and she decides to nominate Julia, uh, in James's place. And that means that Julia is up on the block against Meg. Um, and obviously James being a vote there, uh, means that, uh, you know, there, there's, there's some, uh, leeway here. There's five votes total.

[01:58:22] Steve and Johnny Mac together could make it three votes and evict one of the twins here. Um, and this is a move that could have, you know, taken a shot at Vanessa, uh, and the Austin twins, you know, sided with James and Meg, um, and, and really like pulled off some kind of power play. And Johnny Mac was pretty, pretty on board.

[01:58:49] It was just down to Steve and Steve was literally sick about it. Uh, he stayed up the night before vomiting, trying to decide, is this the right time to take a shot? Very famously. He decides, no, uh, let's vote out Meg and not Julia. And, uh, I, I will take my chances going in this direction, helping continue to build up Austin and the twins as a, as a, uh, threat against Vanessa.

[01:59:19] Um, and, uh, and then, you know, come through for Austin and the twins ourselves so that, uh, that we, uh, stay, stay, um, in, in their good graces. And this kind of is viable because, um, when it's Meg versus Julia on the block, this really fractures the relationship between Austin and the twins and then James and Meg, because they're now on opposite sides being on the block against each other. So the other thing that does too, is it strengthens these, this kind of other alliance where

[01:59:49] Johnny Mac and Steve are also trying to be like, well, Vanessa's here and in power. We should try to get her to choose us over Austin and the twins. Like, let's really try to get her to like, understand that they're going to have each other and nobody has us and is under utilizing us, but she can, and we'll just be her loyal soldiers, even though both of them were anything but.

[02:00:14] And so because she had the power and was safe and she had to nominate somebody, she chooses to save them. Even though the easiest nomination would have been Johnny because he was just evicted. Last week. Right. But she knows, or Steve knows that if he goes against Vanessa, that fractures the most, like most important relationship he has in the house with her. And, uh, he has this kind of flirt man's on the feeds to a certain extent with Julia, which is actually kind of interesting.

[02:00:44] Um, where, I mean, I think post-season I was, I was convinced, I don't think I've ever talked about this with Steve, but like, I was convinced that I think Julia actually really liked him, um, at, at the end, which was, uh, really cute. But anyway, the whole point being is like, I think he's looking at this going, this helps Johnny. It does not help me. It does not help the agency with Vanessa going out of power. And if I need her, which I do, this is not going to help that.

[02:01:11] And so I, I know everybody, myself included, I was like, Steve, you frigging idiot. Get rid of Julia. And he didn't. And I do think that actually sticking to this is a huge reason why he actually makes it to the end because there's going to be a week where he needs to rely on Vanessa. Important to know at this time, because Liz and Austin just spent two weeks in control with everyone trying to work with them.

[02:01:37] Uh, and they were three people heading toward a, you know, final six, uh, final seven, final six scenario. Um, everyone in the audience, they'd kind of given up on Vanessa. She'd been, as I said, she'd been theoretically neutered. Uh, and people were just like, this is just the Aust twins game to lose right now. They're all so stupid for not have having taken a shot earlier. And they're especially stupid if they don't take a shot now.

[02:02:04] Um, and, uh, now at the time, uh, I did disagree with this. I thought that it was a smart move to bring Austin, the twins down toward the end because they were, you were forced again, if you are a player like Vanessa, you can't convince people to bring you to the end because they like you because you have a better relationship. You have to force them to do it through logical scenarios. And a great way to do that was to bring Austin, the twins and unbreakable trio.

[02:02:32] If you are now at the final six with those three people, you have to evict all of them before or most of them before you evict her. Um, and that was just the kind of thing she needed to do. Also at this time, the competitions weren't so, uh, you know, so overcooked that like the same people were definitely going to win all of them toward the end. Um, and so it was, there was a lot more play here, uh, with the strategy, but because of

[02:03:00] the sentiment, the fact that Steve and Johnny Mac saw this opportunity and chose not to take it made people go, you know what? You know, these people like Taron are trying to convince us that Steve is an actual player and he's clearly not Steve and Johnny Mac are losers. They're losers. Um, and, uh, you know, Rob. I'll never forget.

[02:03:28] That was literally one of the first podcasts I ever watched of RHEP covering this. And I was like, I don't know if I, uh, should watch this because I was like, he's not a loser. Like I would just have that like emotional connection at the time. Um, you guys don't know, unless you've had a friend or somebody who feels like family or something in the house, how effing stressful it is. Like I'd be up all the time. Like, what are they doing to Steve right now? You know? So what I would see podcasts like that, I laughed a lot, but I also was like, well, he's not

[02:03:58] a loser. He's just doing his best. Oh, Rob. Um, but it worked, especially the fact that it was a double eviction meant that, that, uh, tension that grew between the Aust twins and the goblins, um, uh, destroyed brass tacks. Uh, and you know, Steve and Johnny Mac came through for them. So when Liz wins the double eviction, HOH, she uses it to take out James.

[02:04:25] Um, and just like that, James and Meg are out of the game. James, of course, is going to go on to win America's favorite. They loved his pranks. Uh, he had this whole kind of like weird kind of flirt manse with Meg that he's going to kind of replicate next season with, uh, Natalie.

[02:04:48] Um, but, uh, you know, that, that was the end for James and Meg, uh, bringing us into the final, uh, six where Steve wins the HOH. And this is, um, this is when Steve now has an opportunity to actually take a proper shot at the Aust twins. Um, and so he nominates Austin and Liz, but Austin wins that veto, uh, which means that one

[02:05:17] of Julia or Liz is going to have to be voted out here. And I think what's interesting too, just as a side, uh, small side note, when Liz wins the double eviction HOH, Julia wins the POV. Um, and I always thought that that was just like, what a nail in the coffin for James. It's like both twins are going to win and just see your ass out the door. Um, so then it's even more fuel for the fire for them to, uh, you know, he nominates Austin and Liz.

[02:05:48] Austin wins. Julia goes up and everybody at home in the audience, in the house, in the jury is going, you'd get rid of Liz. She's in a showmance and she has a twin. She has an automatic two votes right there. Number one, number two, Liz has been better in competition. She's a bigger threat for you. Number three, Liz is more strategic than Julia. Julia is basically hanging out with her sister and her sister's boyfriend in the house and

[02:06:17] having a good old time and giving Steve a makeover and those kinds of things. So it made all the sense in the world for them to go after Liz. But at the end of the day, they listened to what the twins wanted essentially. And it basically turned into Julia being like, send me out essentially. And she goes. Yeah. And, and, you know, again, I think in part, the idea here is that Liz and Austin are a

[02:06:46] bigger target together than, uh, than Julia and Austin. And so when you're playing a game like Vanessa's, that also is going to factor into that decision. Um, and also if you're playing a game like Vanessa's at this point, when Steve turns around on them, Vanessa has finally been able to re-infiltrate the Austin twins. Uh, she is now their best friend because they turned on James and Meg and then Steve and Johnny Mac turned on them.

[02:07:11] And so by, by going along with what they want, she's kind of like, yeah, I'm still with you. I'm going to help Liz stick around because I'm on your side. Uh, which kind of only, uh, helped fuel the coming blindside when Vanessa wins following HOH. Which nominates Johnny Mac and Steve. Um, but Johnny Mac wins that veto, which means that Vanessa is now forced to, uh, to, to,

[02:07:41] to re-nominate one of Austin or Liz. Um, and so, uh, Austin of course is going to go up there as a pawn, um, because it's going to be a one-to-one vote. Uh, you know, Steve is going to, or Johnny Mac's going to vote for Steve to stay and Liz is going to vote for Austin to stay. So as long as Vanessa holds true, Austin's going to be safe. And, uh, that's of course what she's going to do.

[02:08:09] There's also the way that Steve was sick over which way to go a couple of weeks before. That's how I felt this week because this was a week where they did the eviction pre-taped ahead of time and didn't show it to the audience. Um, which literally put me into panic attacks. Like you wouldn't believe because there was also a threat that Johnny was going, I don't know if I want to be saddled with Steve anymore. I might just flat out vote for him to go.

[02:08:38] And he had to actually. Yeah, that was the tension that week was Johnny Mac might've flipped. Johnny was very close to flipping and it wasn't until he knew that Vanessa was going to break the tie in the favor of getting rid of Austin that he decided to keep Steve. So really, if you go back to the couple of weeks before when Steve and him, but really more Steve chose to not break trust with Vanessa, that would not have happened this two weeks later.

[02:09:06] If like in saving Steve and Johnny, that would not have happened. Had they not done that move two weeks prior that everybody was mad about. Yes. Also important to note that it was around this time, uh, that Vanessa was, uh, planning for her end game. Who did she want to bring the end? Very famously, she had some, uh, Skittles or M and Ms, um, that she used to chart out how she saw her end game going in, in every conceivable scenario.

[02:09:35] Um, we at the time did some screenshots, uh, an analysis to decode her system. And, uh, this is how we know and could discover that, uh, that Steve was, she basically was correct with every single read of what each person would do. The only thing she was ever wrong about in her chart was Steve. That Steve, she thought would take her to the end. And we know that he would not.

[02:10:05] Uh, and we knew that at the time too. Yeah. Um, so we knew at the time, this is the only thing she's gotten wrong. Um, and that of course goes, uh, into this decision that she, that she makes to evict, to blindside Austin over Steve. And famously, this is like the best eviction that's ever happened because not only is it a blind side, not only is there tension because it's the HOH who was breaking the tie at the

[02:10:32] final five, there's so much confidence in Austin that he's not even wearing shoes. Taryn, he knows he is. And I love how in shock he is. And he's like, you're never going to win. Like that was a bad move. Whole nine yards. He's trying to say goodbye to Liz. He doesn't have anything packed. He doesn't have shoes on. He walks out. And my all time favorite thing that my friend Steve has ever done is the slow. He didn't mean this in a mean way at all, but the amount of times that my life,

[02:11:02] when I see somebody do something rude or petty or whatever, and in my head, I think good luck, Austin. It's one of my all time favorite things that Steve has ever done. And he genuinely meant that as like a nice thing, but it comes off as so shady. I love it so much. Let me, uh, let me see if I can get this moment here up on the screen for you.

[02:11:31] Uh, that, uh, here's also, I would like to point out in this episode, I actually got my tweet on the, on, on the screen. Oh boy. I said, we believe in Steve and it popped up. So this is Austin being blindsided with no shoes on because he did not think he would need his shoes.

[02:11:58] Um, because he did not think he would be leaving and he walks out no shoes. So amazing. It's just like sweatpants, no shoes. And he had this whole, like, like his comic, he was really offended by because it made him look like he was like a smelly guy who didn't shower or whatever. And then the fact that he's evicted without shoes on and kind of like lounging clothes

[02:12:28] that doesn't help the image. So to say, not that like we thought that at home, but I'm sure that in his head, when he goes back, he's just like, Oh, makes me so mad that people would like paint me in this way. So affected by that, that I have to imagine that's set into it. Oh man. Yeah. Um, so Austin is evicted.

[02:12:54] Steve stays in the game, goes on to win the final four HOH, um, which, uh, turns out to be a very crucial one for him that, you know, this is often talked about, uh, like, was he trying to like, like what was going on with this HOH? Um, but, uh, he wins this one, which gives him of course, safety at the final four, uh, ends up nominating, uh, Johnny Mac and Vanessa. The nominations don't matter. Vanessa wins this veto.

[02:13:23] And, uh, she, I think it was Vanessa and Liz, right. And then Johnny's the renown or no, uh, I believe Johnny matters an initial nominee, um, because it didn't matter. Um, but, uh, Vanessa winning the, uh, the HOH of course, or sorry, the veto means that she is going to evict Johnny Mac. And with, and despite the fact that she's the one that just blindsided Austin with Austin

[02:13:50] and Julia, both gone, uh, Vanessa is able to pull Liz back in, um, and in part because she has the power to evict her here and does not, um, and heads into the final three with no Johnny Mac. Uh, and in the scenario that she hoped for, basically, uh, this was her ideal scenario that she had mapped out that she could get Liz to bring her to the final two.

[02:14:15] If Liz won the final three HOH, if she won, she'd be able to, uh, I, I believe she was going to, uh, bring Liz to the final two. And if Steve won, she thought I will be taken by Steve. Um, and, uh, of course that is not exactly what happened. Uh, now Liz very likely would have taken Vanessa. That is what, uh, what was believed at the time.

[02:14:42] Um, but, uh, but we knew Steve has had been looking to cut Vanessa for a while. Um, and, uh, we get down to that final three HOH competition and, uh, it, it comes down to this was, this was the, the straw that broke camel's back for a lot of people when it came to the final three, part three, the final three HOH. People were very upset that it was basically a crapshoot. And, uh, because the questions were like, what, like finish the sentence of the, what this juror said.

[02:15:12] And there's really no way of knowing what they said. Um, very rarely is there going to be a, uh, one of those questions that's actually knowable versus just basically guessing. Um, and so I would argue though, that Steve wins this because he knows how Johnny Mac would say something and what he wouldn't say. Right. That's right. Like, I think you will occasionally have like one person that you know very well and you have a pretty good idea of what they might say.

[02:15:39] So that, that one question you might have an edge on, but even then there've been tons of instances where like, even the people that have been watching the feeds 24 seven were like, Oh, this is exactly what they would say. But then they don't say it because it's just like, it's just a weird question. Um, but Steve ends up winning this, uh, part three, the tiebreaker, uh, question. And at this point there were a lot of people cheering him on because they did not like Vanessa despite her dominance.

[02:16:09] They found her annoying and also, uh, criminally a woman. Um, and so, uh, it's, it's a crime I commit every day, you know? Um, and, and how dare a woman be emotional and good at the game, you know? Like can't, isn't it enough that we vote Taryn? Like, come on. Um, yeah. Um, but, uh, but there are also people very, very upset about this outcome.

[02:16:36] Um, and, uh, and I, I was certainly a Steve fan. Uh, I was, um, again, I was the one trying to sing his praises in the podcast thing. He was the second best player behind Vanessa, but obviously, um, in terms of like who I was rooting for at the time, I was hoping Vanessa would pull this one out. She had done so well, uh, in the game. Um, but this was certainly a case where even in the moment I was like, but I'm really happy for Steve. I mean, what a, what a coup he pulled off. Oh yeah.

[02:17:02] Um, Steve wins the final three HOH and, uh, and he cuts Vanessa from the game. Um, what, what a play. It's the winning move. And you can see how hard it is for him to get the words out because he cares, not because he's like, but he knows it's the right thing. Like you can see it in his face. He's like, uh, and poor Steve too, when it comes to like the final speeches and such,

[02:17:31] his mic keeps going off and you know that he's just like nervous as hell and excited and all those different kinds of, also Liz's face throughout this whole thing is like, she is like, she doesn't understand what's happening. And it's so funny because she's like, so convinced she's going to be cut. Um, I somewhere have a video of the local news station who was filming a finale party that I was at.

[02:17:55] And I will say that my reaction to Steven winning is, uh, about as dramatic as his, if not a little bit more so. Um, and it is, uh, a treat, but it was, we all knew at home that the only way Steve makes it to the end and the final two is if he wins and he cuts Vanessa. Um, and so the, the speeches ended up basically being like Liz saying like, I had a twin and

[02:18:24] I had a guy and I had a big target and she kept doing this motion with like, you know, woo. Woo. And, uh, Steve came in there and he was prepared and he knew what to say and he wins. And it was just the like most amazing moment to, to, to see this, this kid that I first met when he was five realized his dreams on television. Mm. Yeah. He takes Liz.

[02:18:52] He wins the game, uh, by, uh, by, uh, by a six to three vote. Um, and, uh, that is the end of big brother 17. Yeah. Um, now there have been some people who say, uh, Liz underrated. Um, and I think there's some validity to that. Do I think Liz played better than Steve?

[02:19:19] No, I do not think that, uh, is she perhaps underrated as a player? Uh, I do think there's, there's some validity to that, especially toward the end of the game. Her and Julia really had some pretty strategic conversations. Um, but, uh, but Steve had been so active and playing so hard from, from jump. He'd been so intentional. Um, I often cite Steve as the person who, uh, was basically, he's able to maximize his potential more than anybody else.

[02:19:49] Steve does not have a lot of tools, Vanessa. She does not have like the social game, but she has the strategic game in abundance. And she has the persuasive ability, uh, to really carry the day. Steve, he has a little bit more social game and he certainly has plenty of strategic game, but he has a lot of, of faults, um, in terms of like your, your ability to play a game like big brother. If you're somebody that accidentally says, I love you to somebody when you're walking away, like that's kind of a tough road, right?

[02:20:18] Um, and so, uh, Steve knows his limitations and does everything he can to maximize every tiny bit of, uh, equity that he has out from, uh, the potential that he has in the game. And he very often was able to make the correct decisions along the, along the way, even when they were unpopular. Um, and so, uh, a really impressive win by Steve. It was not Vanessa's win.

[02:20:44] Um, but it was, I think a very impressive win nonetheless. Um, and, uh, you know, uh, forever happy that, uh, Steve is a big brother winner because he's a, he's a very great guy. And I will also say too, that I think one of the biggest things that gets him the win besides the resume at the end of the day versus Liz and how they're able to like, even just the final questions.

[02:21:09] If you didn't know, it was just like, he completely obliterated Liz and answering those final jury questions. It's the thing that Jason and the, you know, comes back and he says, you know, Vanessa, I wanted you to own that you were making these moves and you like never did that. And that added to like the sense of like, we can't trust her and she's not genuine. And we don't even know if any of these things are real about her.

[02:21:37] And Steve was so honest or appeared to be so authentically himself that it was easy to believe him, even when he wasn't really telling the truth or if he was being shady or if he didn't really know what he was going to do. So he was giving lip service. And I think that it's just a little bit more, um, like you kind of, he kind of wins the heart of the jury as well. Like, Hey, this is a super fan from day one, came into the house. We knew he was a super fan. Nobody wanted to vote him out.

[02:22:06] He was a pawn because of it. And here he did. And I will always be thankful for Shelly who in the round table is like Steve won competitions when he needed to, he threw them when he didn't. And we were aware of it. He made connections with every single person that were genuine. And I think a lot of people forget that that is probably the biggest fault in Vanessa's gameplay is not truly under.

[02:22:31] She understands the incentives, but she didn't necessarily understand the people at times. Um, she forced the people rather than trying to meet them where they're at. Yeah. And, um, this was a weird case of the, the players and the jury actually like genuinely having a better idea of the game Steve played than the majority of the audience. Right. Um, who again, were pretty shocked when Steve cut Vanessa just as much as Vanessa was.

[02:23:01] Cause the edit was basically Vanessa's perspective. Um, and, but the, but the players knew because they'd been playing with him. Shelly knew that he was willing to go against Vanessa because she was working with him to do so when she was on the block against Vanessa. Uh, Austin and the twins knew, um, you know, not that they cared at that point. They're obviously voting for, uh, for, for Liz, but like they knew because he worked with them against Vanessa at various points.

[02:23:26] It's just that very, very little of that was in the episodes for so long, uh, that, that, you know, it was a little bit of a surprise for, uh, the audience, but, uh, Beth. Yes. Who's on the poster? Well, I mean, I think it's obvious Vanessa has to be on the poster. Uh, number one, she's gotta be, um, I, it's hard because you could go in so many directions. You could have like one of the Oz twins.

[02:23:53] I feel like Liz would be a good idea because, you know, she shares the same face as Julia, but she was also in showmance. So I think it's those two. You put a twin on there. It's like, I don't know, which one is it? It kind of, it's kind of both. No, you can't tell. So it's kind of both. You get two for one. That's what I'm saying. I mean, we would be able to figure out, you know, is this the, you know, which twin or whatever we know at this point, I think that, you know, it's which posters matter, right?

[02:24:19] Is it the poster of who really represents the season or who are the characters that we remember? Right. So if you do who represents the season, I say Vanessa, uh, Liz and Steve. If you're going to say who represents the season, I think you got to throw Dave on, on there. You got to have Vanessa. And I think, uh, for one of the guys, you probably put like James or Johnny Mac. Yeah. I mean, I think Steve and Vanessa are probably locks here.

[02:24:46] I think that, uh, my, from my estimation, I think those two are going to be locked on to the poster. I think the question is who's the third. And I think that you have a lot of options for the third. You have Austin, you have Liz, you have Johnny Mac. Uh, do I think this audience is going to do James? No. Um, but theoretically he could have been an option. Um, you also have Dave on genuinely Dave on in that mix. Uh, I could see an argument for Shelly. I don't think it's going to happen, but I could see the argument.

[02:25:14] Um, and so, uh, yeah, I think there are a ton of options here. And if I had to guess, I'm going to assume Johnny Mac's going to make it on. Um, because, uh, you know, I think a lot of people are mad that he didn't win America's favorite player. Um, and also Jason being a final three contender for America's favorite player as a pre jury is kind of, you know, something to point out too.

[02:25:42] But yeah, I think the other thing about Dave on is that like, despite this being a very iconic season for her, she really did go out so early and she has two other seasons theoretically to make the poster for. Um, I have a feeling she's probably going to make 18. That's what I thought. But, uh, but you know, uh, I would not argue with her inclusion here either. Um, you know, so, uh, we'll see, we'll see what happens here for the big brother 17 poster.

[02:26:08] Of course you can go to, uh, rob's a website.com slash BB retrospective if you want to, uh, to vote for it. Um, but, uh, in the meantime, that's it. That's what we have for big brother 17. Any final thoughts on the season Beth? I genuinely think this is, you know, one of the best more modern, even though we're getting farther and farther away from every year. Um, seasons I, I have basically ranked it since I started watching every season, which was in 16.

[02:26:37] I kind of ranked 17, 20 and 25 as being kind of like my favorite. I did not watch 26 last year. I think that's why it was good is because I didn't watch. Um, so I need to go back and like watch the episodes of it, but I genuinely think that there are real, or did I say 25? I meant 24. 26. 26. You just said you didn't watch 26. I didn't watch 26. Sorry. The third one that I think is a good one is 24. Right. Sorry. Not 25. No. Anyway.

[02:27:05] So I, I genuinely think that those seasons, there's enough diversity of winners of competition. There's, there's drama with lots of different changing, you know, alliances, but there's also big alliances. There's lots of duos, but there's duos are changing. Um, there's genuine cool people who don't all come across as just influencers, which I feel like has just turned into what the twenties are for me. It's just all people who have like some kind of social media following.

[02:27:34] And then like one or two people who don't like, that's what it feels like it's turned into. And I feel like 17 was one of the last seasons before we got just a lot of people. We didn't really want to watch on feeds because they weren't great people. Sometimes, um, they were fun. They were strategic. They were a mess. They were human. Um, and they all kind of knew who they were. And I loved that about this past. Yeah. I mean, uh, following the season, we have 18 and 19, both seasons with returning players

[02:28:03] that are very returning player focused. Um, and, uh, it, it, you know, it takes until 20 basically until you get back to big brother, uh, with no returning players. And, um, you know, that's a bit of a dead spot for a lot of people, but, um, big brother 17 remembered fairly fondly might be remembered better if Vanessa takes down the win here. Um, but, uh, but it's again, a scenario where it's like, I'm not, I'm not complaining personally,

[02:28:31] uh, knowing Steve, but, um, still a fantastic season. And, uh, in many ways a sort of, uh, not quite deserved, but like it's a, it's a, it's an ending that makes sense, uh, in terms of like the, the fatal flaw, the, the, you know, the vent and the death star that was Vanessa, uh, that Steve managed to, uh, to, to hit. So, um, that is it. That's what we have for you here, uh, for big brother 17.

[02:29:00] Uh, speaking of the, the death star, uh, I am talking about and or season two over at we know scripted TV. So check that out. We're talking about all kinds of shows on the tastemakers talking about the last of us. Um, so check all that stuff out, um, and find me over on YouTube and Twitch, hanging out, watching survivor and playing some games. Beth, what are you up to? Well, as those who know me as a podcaster for, and one of the co-hosts for the RuPaul's

[02:29:26] Drag Race podcast, you'll know that the season finale was last week, but it's RuPaul's Drag Race. So there's always 50,000 versions of it happening. And the next one will be All Stars 10, which starts in just a couple of weeks in May. Aman and I are planning to cover that. Hopefully having Liana join us when she's able, but obviously she's in the middle of a move. So it may just be Aman and myself. Um, very interesting cast for that. Um, so we may, uh, I might be talking with Mike Bloom about that a little bit later as well.

[02:29:55] So, uh, this week, so I'm looking forward to keeping on with the Drag Race train and you can follow me at Augusta wind 11 on Instagram and I'm blue sky. You can follow me at Beth dash Dixon. All right. Well, thank you all so much for joining us here as we went through big brother 17 and I will see all of you next time for big brother 18.