Big Brother 14: A Weekly Big Brother Season Retrospective

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[00:00:45] Hello everyone and welcome back to the Big Brother Retrospective Podcast here on RHAP. I'm your host, Arn Armstrong, and today we are here to talk about Big Brother 14. 14 seasons in and it's time to talk about a season that is remembered for many things, one of which is a funeral.

[00:01:12] And with me to talk about Big Brother 14 is Laveena. How are you doing, Laveena? Hey Taryn, I'm doing amazing. I'm already back. It was... Hold on, I've got to count on my fingers. Six seasons later, I'm back. I talked about BB8 on this podcast series and I'm truly honored. I think, you know, rewatching... I was going to say this like just now before we went live, but I was like, let me wait until we went live to drop this bombshell.

[00:01:37] I think this is my second favorite season. I just bumped it all the way up after watching, rewatching the clips and a couple episodes I tuned into and a couple of videos to prep for the podcast. I bumped it up because it's just, it's got too much meaning for me personally. So I'm super excited. It's a phenomenal season of television, of reality television, but really, really almost television as a whole.

[00:02:03] The things that are pulled off this season, the drama, the history that it makes, there's just a lot to get out of this season. I think the biggest thing that people... The biggest downsides to the season are that some people find it a little bit slow post funeral. And obviously the ending is controversial to say the least.

[00:02:29] But before we get into Big Brother 14, we have to finish some business or at least update some business from Big Brother 13 last week. This is my fault. I set up the survey late. I didn't get the results in in time for the graphic for the poster to be done. So we'll have the poster for you guys next week when we talk about Big Brother 15. We'll show both the BB 13 poster and the BB 14 poster.

[00:02:55] However, we can still reveal the results from the BB 13 survey for who should be on the poster for Big Brother 13. Lavina, who do you think made it? Okay. Rachel has to have. Rachel and... I mean, Jordan? Jordan has to have. And then...

[00:03:23] This is not one of my favorites, to be honest with you, this season. Love some of the characters, but... Is it a cop-out to say, Danielle? I don't know. What do you think? I'm going to say Big Three. In that order? Oh, in the order. No, I'm going to flip Danielle and Jordan. Yeah. Rachel first. Which means Rachel, Danielle, Jordan? Rachel, yes. That's exactly correct. Whoa!

[00:03:52] Okay, I never win anything! Are you kidding? Okay, so we don't have the poster though, right? We don't have the poster to show yet. We will. But yes, Rachel number one, Danielle number two, Jordan number three was the results for Big Brother 13. So stay tuned for that poster. Coming soon. Coming next week, I should say, when we talk about Big Brother 15. But... Go ahead. I do.

[00:04:19] I'm receiving word in my ear right here that today's actually a special day. Yeah, it's Big Brother 14 day. Is it? Is it? Or is it, uh, Mr. Taryn Armstrong's birthday? Um, and to celebrate that, we have a little bit of a surprise. Oh no. Sam, call in the troops. Backstage. Is he not ready yet? Okay, yes. What is good?

[00:04:48] It's your homegirl, Jen City. Yeah! And I have some really special information for you. And only you. So no one else can be in on it. So get them away from your phone, all right? It's your birthday, baby! Let's go! It's your birthday! Happy birthday! This national, global celebration of you and only you on this special, special day. We are all going to celebrate you and only you.

[00:05:18] And we are going to have plain yogurt. It's going to be absolutely incredible, delicious. What a great day to celebrate you. I hope you are having a fantastic birthday. I'm thrilled to be saying happy birthday to you. Mr. T, I salute you. And I hope that your birthday brings you everything that you hope and dream for. And I just hope it's outrageously special. Because why? You deserve it.

[00:05:47] You freaking deserve it. That's it, baby. It's your homegirl, Jen City. And I'll see you on the next one. Bye-bye! Bye-bye! That was beautiful. Get her at the top of the ranks for Cameo. Wow. Like, I've been seeing some stuff. So you got to get her to the top of the ranks. I like that she said Mr. T. Like... You know what? Me and Mr. T, we both deserve it. You know? I share this honor with Mr. T.

[00:06:16] They often confuse the two of you. So I'm hearing. Yeah. Yeah. I get it all the time. Uncanny. Uncanny. Yeah. That was really hard for me to like keep in like that whole time. Just now. I mean, I get it. When you see Taryn written out, you're kind of like, oh, is it Taran? Taran. What is it? It's always that damn Taran. Yeah. She has not aged a second. She looks incredible, by the way. Jen, if you're watching this, you're not.

[00:06:45] But if you were, you look gorge. I feel like I'm trying to remember. I feel like it's possible that I almost saw her in concert once. Oh my God. Because she, her band was playing or at least the band she used to be in was playing at a festival that I was at at one point. She saw 1.2 million records. Supposedly. Well, you just saw her Gen City part of Big Brother 14.

[00:07:14] A vital part as well, I will say, for a few different reasons. But what a season. What a season with so with such a great cast, array of characters. Big Brother 14, of course, comes a year after Big Brother 13 in 2012.

[00:07:35] We are now at the we're at the point in Big Brother where the because Big Brother 9 has happened, you can now consistently say the year is two less than the number of seasons. So 14 is in 2012. This is how they, this is the way you might study for a test on Big Brother for a competition. So, it comes a year after Big Brother 13.

[00:08:02] They just had, you know, this mixed cast situation, Big Brother 13. They're going to do it again for Big Brother 14. This time, coaches is the twist. And it is not a super like well thought out twist because nobody really cared about the coaches situation. They all just everyone just wanted to see these people play the game.

[00:08:32] So, when they revealed that there would be coaches, very famously, I put this in my who wants to be a Big Brother millionaire quiz. They showed off the legs of the returning player coaches. And everyone was pretty, pretty quickly able to sort of determine who everyone was based on their legs. That's so crazy. I feel like, hey, can we, actually, they probably didn't even ask them, right? I never saw it.

[00:09:00] They took a photo in the backyard with them like covered up. Let me see if I can find my image actually. Oh my goodness. And then, uh, that's going to end up on some websites. I don't like that. I don't consent to that. I would hate that. Um, so, uh, we quickly figured out that it's going to be Dan, Janelle, Boogie and Brittany, a pretty like stacked returning cast.

[00:09:29] Like if Big Brother 13 was all about like the biggest like characters, uh, and duos and like romances, um, big brother 14 really seems to be going for like comp beast Janelle, uh, super strategist, Dan, all star winner, Mike Boogie.

[00:09:49] And then at the time people were like, and Brittany, Brittany from, from season 12, the one, the brigade, Brittany, that one with the she fit in here. Uh, and, and those people ate their words. Mm-hmm big time because I probably at the time, of course I didn't watch the season live. It's one of those seasons, which I feel like it's a good time to say it now.

[00:10:16] You know, this is the season that I went back when I first discovered the show around 1516. Of course, I went back and I watched this one. This is the one where I was like, oh my God, every moment that I watched every episode that I watched, I was like, this is my show. I'm hooked. So I had to bump it up to my second favorite overall. Um, but at the time, but maybe people, you know, people were watching it live and they're like, that's, that feels kind of random. And to someone like me, I'm seeing it now.

[00:10:44] And I'm like, I think Brittany is strategically very underrated and maybe at the time, not so much, but I do think that they still give them their flowers. I think big brother cast of that perfectly. You got to get the fourth person to round them, round them up overall, like a good social popular player. Like she was very, very popular in big brother 12. So I think they made the perfect move. And honestly, I'm going to say this about big brother. I am going to give them their flowers in general, because I feel like they choose to bring back players for different seasons.

[00:11:14] They, I feel like they kind of knock it out of the park. Like, yeah, BB 22 was like not great, but on paper, the cast was great. And I feel like on paper and the season was great for this one. So give them their flowers. Hmm. Well, I found the photo. This is a, this was the promo photo. The, this. Oh, yes. I remember now. The big brother 14, uh, with them manually holding a towel in front of their faces and bodies. I remember this.

[00:11:44] I can't tell. I can't. I wouldn't be able to tell. How do people know? The amount of CSI photo analysis going on at the time as they zoomed in on the left. They were like these legs. That's this is Dan. You can tell you this. Uh, we got, we got Janelle's legs here. They did comparisons. Um, uh, so it was, uh, it was pretty, I think, I don't know if we, I don't know if they caught Brittany.

[00:12:13] I don't know if they saw Brittany's legs, but I think it was out at the time who was going to be on the cast anyway. Um, but, uh, but yes, um, it, it was very much like confirmation that there, those are Dan's legs for sure. We thought so. Uh, so, uh, here we go. We're going to have some returning players to big brother 14. Uh, this is their, uh, their actual cast photo here. Um, which, which includes or Jody.

[00:12:42] It's just like the lack of diversity is kind of wild. It was the season that Jody is about to be removed. She's not even the first already been removed at time of taking this photo. Right. Like we said Photoshop. Um, this, this actually does look Photoshop. Yeah. I think this might've been Photoshop. It's kind of like, remember when, um, the, the feeds weren't on yet and Pete for big brother 21. And they were like, is that David's head Photoshopped onto someone's body?

[00:13:11] Like it was like so serious at the time. This one looks better than that. Oh yeah. Cause look at this. It's the same exact Jody. Oh my God. Didn't even clock that. It's the same exact Jody in both photos. Poor girl. She's so sweet too. Yeah. That's a bummer. That's just like, I don't even consider her first boot. I'm like, Oh, it's Kara. Like in my head, she doesn't even get the luxury of being, Oh yeah. She's the first boot. She was just Cameron.

[00:13:41] Unfortunately. Yeah. Poor girl. Um, so, uh, there's a few things going on here. Of course, again, the coaches twist, the, the idea behind the coaches twist is that each, uh, returning player is going to schoolyard pick for people to be on their team. Uh, the thought was that if somebody on your team ends up winning the game, you get, I think it was like a hundred thousand dollars.

[00:14:10] Um, something along those lines. And, uh, the thing is, so, so each of them, Dan Boogie, Janelle and Brittany, they all came in. This is ostensibly what the game is. They're going to pick teams. One of them is going to win a hundred thousand dollars. Um, but all of them, Dan, Brittany, and Janelle. That's what I mean when I mean all of them, when I say all of them, uh, all of them completely and fully recognized. This is not going to last.

[00:14:40] They're going to put us in the game. Of course they're going to put us in the game. Why wouldn't they put us in the game? One of them, AKA Mike Boogie was like, I'm only going to be a coach. I'm not playing. I just want to be a coach. That's what I want to do. And if you do something different to me, I'm going to be very upset with you because that, that would really break the terms of our contract. I would really, it would not be good if you did something that I thought you weren't going to do.

[00:15:07] That would be against the rules to me because I never break any rules with phones or anything like that. I don't look up casts members. I don't look at cast lists. I don't do pregame. I don't do any of that stuff. He did all of this. Um, oh, so, uh, so, um, so yes. The idea was that they're going to do coaches. They, they then picked their teams. Um, and, uh, this, this went, uh, very poorly of course for Jody.

[00:15:34] Um, she ends up on Dan's team with, uh, I don't think we have slides of the, um, of the teams, but Jody, Cara and Danielle were on, uh, on Dan's team. Um, then you had, uh, really? You had Willie. Uh, who else? Um, you had, uh, Ashley. Dang, we're going through it.

[00:16:04] We're really, I'm just trying to find them. You know what? This is a, this is a bad way to do this. We'll talk about the teams as we go. Uh, this doesn't even mean anything to you if you don't know the teams already anyway. Um, but basically the teams were picked. The most important one is that Dan has, uh, Jody, uh, uh, Cara and Danielle. They end up losing the first challenge.

[00:16:25] And that means that Dan has to evict one of the people on his team immediately night one before they've even really settled down. Um, and he is going to eliminate Jody, uh, having ostensibly lost the challenge for them in the, uh, in the competition. Um, and just like that, Jody is out before she has any chance to really do anything. Yeah.

[00:16:49] And it's also so, so anticlimactic the way it goes down because he picked, he picks Jody last among his three picks. So yeah, he's going to, and whoever else is probably going to pick choose to evict that person they picked last. So it's just like not fun to watch. And I'm pretty sure I think it was Ian who had the diary room saying like, this is the first time in big brother history. A person's been, you know, removed from the game on night one.

[00:17:16] So for it to have been her again, it sucks. And the fact that she has not been brought back unless it's in a way to like, not make fun of her, but you know what I mean? It's kind of like, she's like an inside joke, you know, or she's brought back during like a song for celebrity big brother or whatever. Yeah. Use her likeness, but won't bring her back for real. It's wild. They brought back David and like David was wrongly like, I didn't like his situation either, but like, why not bring Jody back?

[00:17:46] Maybe she says, maybe she's not interested. I don't know, but I'd like to see her. Yeah. Um, it was just, it's just a bad twist. It's always been a bad twist every time they've done an immediate, uh, an elimination like this. Um, it was bad for so many different reasons. It was always going to be somebody that was not physically fit, uh, or as physically fit as, as everyone else, because, uh, the first challenge was so physically demanding.

[00:18:11] Um, it's, uh, then also diminished one of the teams to two players immediately. And then as we saw, Dan is going to lose another team member immediately, which give, which gave the possibility for one of their star returning, you know, people, uh, to be evicted from the game by week two. Um, which very well could have happened if they had been smart.

[00:18:39] Um, and so like just from almost every angle, it just doesn't make any sense. It's a really bad twist. It's wild to me that they brought it back multiple times. Um, and, uh, I hope they never bring it back again. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and just like the schoolyard pick too. Yeah. It's interesting, I suppose, but I don't know. It just feels kind of, and I feel like I'm going to be a hypocrite when I say this because I'm always like, Oh, this is boring.

[00:19:08] I want drama, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it does feel kind of mean spirited. I don't know. I just don't like the way it all went down for Jody in particular. Mm-hmm. And, and I mean, I've said this before, but like, you don't know these people well enough to even care who gets eliminated. So there's no real drama behind this either. Like you need to build people up for me to even care in the first place. Um, and all we really got was just like a tiny little competition and immediately somebody's gone. How you look. It's just how you look. That's why I think it's like, Oh, it's mean spirited.

[00:19:38] So, uh, there are a couple of other, you know, uh, interesting casting decisions made for this season. Of course, one of which is Willie Hance, uh, who was, uh, uh, I think the cousin of Russell Hance. Something along those lines. It's his, I thought it was his brother. Is it his brother or no, you know what? I was thinking nephew is, uh, Brandon and then brother, I think. Yeah.

[00:20:06] Cause it's, it's, he's Brandon's father, I think. Right. Willie. There's a third one. I don't watch survivor. I don't know. Is there's a third one. Yeah. Brandon Hance. He, he was the author of his own story. Okay. Um, so this one's the brother. Yeah. I don't know. I think so. I think so. Okay. They're all really crazy though. Yeah.

[00:20:31] Uh, I'm not an expert at the, the Hance family tree, but at the time it felt like I was because, you know, their entire family was on reality TV. Um, Willie Hance, uh, comes on, uh, initially hiding the fact that he's Russell Hance's brother. Um, but, uh, the big thing, Oh, and what is he going to tell anyone when he's going to tell anyone? Um, you know, what's going to happen with Willie Hance? Is he going to dominate big brother? Like Russell dominates survivor.

[00:20:58] Um, and of course the answer was, um, no. Uh, but he does win the first HOH. Yeah, I don't know. I, I, I don't know anything again. I was not, when I first watched this, I did not know anything about Russell Hance. I know a little bit more now. Don't love what I've heard personally.

[00:21:22] Um, but so I didn't know what to compare it to, but I realized very soon and quickly, um, that I was not a big fan. Um, did not appreciate the scene where he's mocking Will's voice, you know, that kind of those kinds of things. But I will say it was really funny to watch the slow decline.

[00:21:45] Like his like kind of like his breakdown occurring and it coming to blows with the chef Joe is so legendary to me. So you know what, what a run, what a run for my, my guy, Willie. Mm hmm. Yes. Um, the Hance craze is still going. Samoa airs in 2009. So we are three years removed from Russell's initial appearance on survivor.

[00:22:13] Um, but, and, and this is really the, uh, the swan song for the Hance family as well. Like, uh, Brandon, I think came on the show before Willie, um, and, uh, and had like a, a decent showing initially. He comes back and has a much worse showing, uh, after that. Um, and, and then Willie, you know, goes out pretty quickly in a big brother.

[00:22:39] And so at that, at this point it's, it feels kind of like, and you know, of course, Russell has his third go, um, which ends in redemption island, which ends pretty, uh, unthinkable. And ceremoniously as well. So like, it's a quick crash and burn for the Hance family, but, uh, Willie wins this first HOH and Willie for, for what it's worth is definitely a force in the game in big brother 14. Uh, he has some, uh, some decently strong connections.

[00:23:08] He has a lot of opinions and, you know, we talk a lot about how in these mixed seasons, um, you know, the new players often just capitulate to, to the vets or, and the, and the ones that try to fight like the regulators in season 13, they pretty quickly get picked off. Um, but Willie was a, uh, a very strongly anti vet force in the house. He won the first HOH as well.

[00:23:36] Um, and so, uh, he really felt like, um, you know, we need to make sure that we are standing together against these, you know, coaches that they never believed we're going to stay coaches. Um, from, from get go, Willie was holding meetings up in the HOH. I'm like, Hey, do you see the memory wall? Do you see other spaces for like more keys? Like, do you like, they are obviously going to join the game at some point.

[00:24:05] We need to like all promise that we are not going to let any of them win. We are going to stay, stay together as new players. They've had their time. Um, all of this stuff is happening week one, um, largely, you know, under Willie's, uh, direction. Um, so he is a strong force as a week one HOH. And he also is an HOH that lasts quite a while in these days. The first HOH lasts a while. Um, and, uh, and during that time, there is another player who is standing out.

[00:24:36] Ian, um, Ian is having some trouble initially. Uh, he is, you know, kind of a bit of a wild child. Um, he's kind of running around naked. He's, uh, you know, uh, he's making some people uncomfortable here and there. Um, and, uh, there are people that are just not fitting in. It's not fitting into the group.

[00:25:02] And, uh, from Willie's perspective, Ian is a perfect first target for week one, uh, throw Ian up there. We can Mike boogie. Um, and, uh, and, and everyone is on board with this move. And it, it, you know, maybe in an alternate universe, uh, you know, Willie actually is able to get Ian out in week one. And he has an entirely different journey and big brother, but, uh, of course not to be. Yep. Yep.

[00:25:30] And if not for the coaches competition, I think is what they officially called it dubbed it. Um, he would have been the first boot, like, unless, I mean, Hey, we might've seen something. Early on from Ian where he can wiggle himself out of that, uh, out of a vote, like maybe or a veto or something like that. But he would have gotten the votes to go home and he would have been the first boot rather than win. So it's very interesting. Mm hmm. Yes.

[00:25:58] Uh, so what happens is they introduce a new twist, uh, along with the coaches, uh, twist, which is the coaches competition, uh, which allows for the coaches to, um, to win safety for one of their team members. And this is really like one of the only times that it even really matters, um, in any significant way.

[00:26:20] Uh, but, um, but Mike boogie is going to go ahead and win the coaches competition and save Ian from being the first person evicted, uh, properly from the game. Uh, now Dan at this point is throwing all competitions. Um, which, you know, theoretically could have come back to haunt him here.

[00:26:41] If he prevents boogie from winning this, uh, by winning it himself, he's, you know, uh, leaves Ian open, maybe protects Cara who knows. Uh, but, but basically Dan's entire, uh, strategy was, uh, you know, they've given me to, they've given me some cannon fodder. I'm going to line them up and sacrifice them, uh, to help aid me in appearing week.

[00:27:11] I know it wasn't his intention to like, to lose car. He didn't want to lose car. He didn't want to lose Jody. Um, but he, you know, uh, this is the way that Dan played the game. He threw the veto when he was on the block in, uh, in week two of big brother 10. So, uh, he very much was like willing to take big risks in this situation. And it was, you know, only a benefit that the risk didn't come at his own cost, uh, here, but it did make him vulnerable in the following week.

[00:27:40] So, uh, Willie unable to nominate Ian instead ends up nominating Frank and Cara. Um, so Cara was, uh, Dan's first pick off the board, uh, for, uh, for his team.

[00:27:56] Again, intentionally trying to not choose the likes of, you know, Frank, uh, or Shane or, um, you know, uh, like anybody that seemed like they'd be like physically intimidating or like any kind of big threat. He was trying to go for like minimal threat level. Let's try and ride this out. Seeming like we are weak. Uh, like we, we, we are not going to be threats to anybody.

[00:28:24] Um, and in many ways, that's sort of the issue for Cara here in the, uh, in, in the early days of big brother 14. She was just an easy kind of person to put up with Frank being the real target. Like Frank was just already causing issues. He was getting into fights with Willie. Um, and, uh, and, and Willie just wanted Frank gone. Um, Frank has, uh, quite a journey in big brother 14. Let me see if I can.

[00:28:54] Nope. That's not Frank. Um, basically. Frank's journey and big brother 14 is that he is the target every single week that he exists in the house.

[00:29:11] And the, he only survives via winning a competition or, uh, a twist, um, in, in almost every single situation, except for, uh, one, uh, which is when he's up against Janelle. Um, so, uh, you know, it, it is. Uh, it is quite the journey Frank and it starts right away in week one where he is, uh, he is the target. He's going to get into fights about fruit loops, which is going to come back around in big brother 17.

[00:29:41] Oh, is it? Oh yeah. I was like, wait, isn't that 16? Yeah. Yeah. I feel like Frank's story. Um, Hmm. It's a little bit like overrated in my personal opinion. Like I really enjoyed watching it, but I, but to just win a competition every week and remove yourself. I'm just like, eh, like whatever. Like you're still like, not, you know, when he, when you are saying like, Oh, this guy duped me. Like, I'm just like, okay.

[00:30:11] Yeah. Like you're not very good strategically and you're not the best socially. So I'm just like, okay, whatever. Like he let him win America's favorite and just keep it pushing because I think America perceived him as the underdog, but that's really Ian for this season in my opinion. But yeah. Yes.

[00:30:31] Well, uh, he did capture the attention, uh, at least according to audience perception of one Alison Grodner, uh, who, uh, seemed the production side of things really seemed to love one Frank Udy. Um, and, uh, you know, despite the fact that he seemingly couldn't stay off the block, uh, for the life of him, uh, other than winning competitions, uh, he was, uh, eventually crowned the fan favorite of the season.

[00:30:59] Uh, which, you know, I guess is, is kind of par for the course in a world where, uh, so did, you know, Cody. Um, so, uh, so Willie nominates Frank and Cara. Shane wins the first veto. Shane is another important character in the season. Um, Shane is another, like sort of the other big athletic guy of the cast.

[00:31:24] Um, and very early on Shane and Frank are like talking about how, like, Hey, you know, us dudes got to stick together. Um, you know, that's, we, you know, the, the dudes always get picked off in this game. We need to, you know, we need to make it. So we need to make this, uh, game great again. Um, and, uh, my favorite minority group. We dropped. Also, why is he standing like that? That's not how you stand. Me? No.

[00:31:54] I want them to all take pictures like this again. That's what I want. So he wins the veto, ends up not using it. Uh, because you know, it's just, it's, it's too, you know, Frank tries to make a case, you know, let's stick together. They have this conversation, but they never actually lock anything in, um, too significantly. And, uh, and ultimately Frank is going to stay on the block against Kara.

[00:32:20] Um, now, uh, this is looking not great for Frank. Um, but, uh, but lucky for him. Um, Boogie is going to be able to put in some good work and, uh, and make, uh, make a deal, make some deals and keep Frank in the game.

[00:32:40] And this is primarily because Willie is making such an ass of himself over the course of the week that, uh, this vote becomes a referendum primarily on Willie. Um, that, uh, you know, Willie is becoming this power hungry HOH itis kind of dude. And, uh, and if you, if you don't want to side with Willie, if you don't want to give Willie what he wants, then you should keep Frank around. Uh, and Frank will go after Willie.

[00:33:09] What a great play. Frank will win the next HOH. He'll use that HOH to go again, to, to take Willie out of the game. Everything's going to work out perfectly unless Willie somehow gets eliminated from the game without Frank having to waste an HOH on him. Um, it's also helpful that he was Frank was sitting next to one of Dan Giesling's players because the narrative a little bit before the drama was settling in was let's just take out Dan. We take out two, two of his players will be taken out next week. Just get rid of the third.

[00:33:38] Kind of like you said earlier, he could be gone in a week too. That was kind of what Brittany and Janelle were, I guess, hoping for, uh, mostly Brittany, as we can see Janelle tries to kind of like play the middle to the best of her ability. But I think that also helps, uh, Frank, uh, big deal because it's Dan Giesling's player. Mm-hmm. Yes. Um, and so, uh, this ends up being a very close vote. Um, it's, it's a five to eight vote. Dan does not have Jody's vote to help.

[00:34:08] Uh, he, you know, uh, um, Cara is on the block. Um, and that means that he basically only has Danielle. Um, and he needs to, he needs to be able to like pull a couple of other votes. He ends up getting them in, uh, in Shane and Jojo. Um, but, uh, but it's not going to be enough. Uh, basically the other teams have ganged up to make sure that Cara leaves so that Frank can go after Willie.

[00:34:36] Um, so it's right now like this weirdly, you know, loose alliance between the Janelle team and the Boogie team against the Dan and the Brittany team. And, and basically, you know, uh, Willie just screwed up with Cara as his pawn here. Um, that, uh, he gave the opportunity for, uh, two other teams to, to, to gang up to, to make this play happen.

[00:35:01] And if he had put up somebody like say Gen City, uh, up next to Frank, it would have guaranteed that at least now you have the ability to get votes from, uh, from multiple teams as opposed to, um, you know, forcing basically, uh, all of the, like the teams that you do have, uh, to the, basically eliminating votes from the teams that you are looking to pull votes from. Um, and that leads to, uh, to, to Frank staying in the game.

[00:35:31] Mm-hmm. Yep. And I also think that just, again, it's, it's, it, if you make people dislike you, which is all he did that first week, just pull people up into that room, no coaches allowed, you know, rubbing people like Joe and Will the wrong way. Like it just makes people not want to work with you. So he was screwed regardless.

[00:35:54] Mm-hmm. So, uh, Kara is evicted. Kara doesn't make a huge impact here. Um, is, is really just screwed based on just not only like the decision made by Willie to put her up on the block, but like that decision was made because of a perception that Dan was trying to cultivate.

[00:36:15] Um, and he's really just a victim of, you know, what Dan is trying to do. Uh, you know, again, he wasn't intentionally trying to sacrifice Kara, but like, uh, he was taking risks that, uh, Kara I'm sure would have loved to have not had to take herself.

[00:36:32] I felt really bad for her because I watched her eviction episode this morning and again, and I forgot her goodbye messages were just, Hey, you had a really beautiful long legs. Um, and you had nothing else to offer, which is what chef Joe said in his goodbye message to her.

[00:36:54] Like imagine like giving your time to like coming here and you don't have a chance because of who you're connected to. And then you're only goodbye from the people you just spent. Probably. I think they said it was like day 16 or something a little over two weeks with, or just like, Hey, like you're just hot. And that was it. That's why you're leaving. That sucks really bad for her. I feel bad for her. And they, they, they can't show goodbye messages like that anymore. And thank God, to be honest.

[00:37:24] Yeah. So that's it for Kara. She gets sent home and the plan works flawlessly from Boogie and Janelle's team because Frank wins the next HOH. And, uh, and wouldn't you know, like this is, this is going to work out great again at this point.

[00:37:41] It's Brittany and Dan's team versus Janelle and Boogie's team. And that means that it's time to strike back at Brittany's team because Dan only has one player left. Now it is worth pointing out probably multiple times that it, it was heavily discussed.

[00:38:00] Should we just take out Danielle for the sake of removing Dan from the game entirely? Because if we evict Danielle, Dan is done again. Everyone knows. Even Boogie, even Boogie knows this is going to happen. Boogie's going to be like, Oh, I can't believe you did this, but that's only because he was in a losing position. Uh, everyone knows these people are going to come into the game at some point. This is not going to be a 12 person season.

[00:38:27] Um, everyone knows this is an opportunity to basically to two for one. It's, it's, uh, the most appealing deal in the history of big brother. You take out Danielle and for free, we'll throw in Dan Giesling. They're so dumb. You know what? Dan coming through in his final two speech saying something like this was the, I know he was like pandering, but to say like this,

[00:38:54] I knew this group of newbies was like the most smart, I would, the, the big, that big brother's ever seen. I'm like, Oh yeah. Like that's why they did everything they did. Like it was just so bad. And the way of like, to like, listen to you, like break it down that way makes me so mad. And Dan's my favorite player of all time. Like, hello. Yeah. Instead they decided that, um, Jojo was a bigger.

[00:39:23] Dude. I don't think she knew where she was with full respect to Jojo. Like, I don't know if she knew where she was at. Good for her. Um, yeah. So a few things happened here. Uh, one is that, you know, Dan, I think, uh, felt decently, uh, safe because Frank obviously would have to go after Willie before he went after him or, or Dan, really Danielle. Right.

[00:39:49] Um, but Willie, after Frank wins, the HOH, uh, is going to be, uh, pretty, uh, pretty upset. The house did not go, the house did not vote in the way that he wanted them to. Um, and now the HOH was Frank, the guy he tried to get out. Uh, and so, um, he's going to get into some arguments and that's going to lead to the head, butt hurt around the world.

[00:40:15] That Ian tried to stop in a towel. God love him. And he would have stopped it. Mind you, he would have. Uh, and Willie is expelled from the game. And nobody moved their reaction. Everyone was just like, all right. Anyways, except Brittany.

[00:40:36] It was like a big deal, but it also wasn't a big deal at the time. Mostly because everyone just assumed he was dead in the water anyway, including I assume himself. Um, which is part of why he was getting into these arguments. But like in, in the eyes of the fans at the time, it was like, well, that was what was going to happen.

[00:40:58] But the reality is that it did change things in the sense that it again, opened up the door to be like, well, now that we don't have to deal with Willie, not only do we not have to deal with Willie. But now Brittany's team only has two people left on it. And that really just makes the, the, uh, the ability to take out Dan even more appetizing. Um, because on one side you'd be like, well, we could eliminate Dan from the game, but then Brittany still has a full team.

[00:41:27] Brittany doesn't even have a full team anymore. Uh, so, you know, that's not even as much of an issue. However, uh, and I think the credit has to go to Dan for this. Dan gets in there and he, he just, he woos Mike Boogie. He, he, he wines and dines him. He starts talking up a big game about like two greatest alliances of all time. Chill town renegades coming together.

[00:41:54] Like the two of us could really make a run on this. Um, and the reality is that Mike Boogie doesn't want Dan gone. Um, and that is a huge part of why he decides that, uh, with, with Frank, that they don't want to take Danielle out of the game. Now, again, they do think about it. They, they consider it because it's definitely an option they could take. Um, especially after Shane wins the veto because, uh, basically Frank nominates Jojo and Shane.

[00:42:24] Um, Shane be Jojo and Shane being, uh, two of the votes, uh, against him in the previous vote. Um, and, uh, and Shane had, had won the veto and not used it on them, uh, before. So, uh, so obviously like they're not working to you. This is a, this is a good opportunity. Shane has shown he can win competitions. You put up Shane, you put up Jojo. If you're not going to go after Dan, that makes sense. But Shane wins the veto two vetoes in a row. Uh, and takes himself off the block.

[00:42:54] The replacement is Danielle, which is the only person that makes sense at this point. They're not going to betray the Janelle, uh, you know, uh, uh, team. Um, and that means that it's Danielle versus Jojo on the block. And again, the opportunity is there to, uh, to take Danielle and Dan out of the game, uh, up next to Jojo. Uh, but Shane is a big threat and Dan has been making deals.

[00:43:19] And so because of that, uh, the vote falls onto Jojo with, uh, with Shane being the only vote to evict Danielle. I feel, I see. Okay. That's a perfect setup. Thank you, Taryn. I feel like it's my responsibility to bring in the tea because I do, it was, I feel like it wasn't heavily talked about on the shows, but there was like some kind of beef and going on between Jojo and Danielle over Shane.

[00:43:45] Like it was like some kind of, not like a love triangle, maybe like a light one, but it was very interesting to watch because you could just tell Jojo was like very interested and it was reciprocated from Shane and Danielle was not having it. So I would have loved to see what would have happened if she stayed longer because that's all I was getting from her and that sucks. But yeah, I wasn't. Jojo definitely had potential to bring some drama, but, uh, but yes. Yes.

[00:44:15] Out too early for sure. Just funny as hell. Just funny as hell. Um, yes. So, uh, Janelle then wins the third, uh, or sorry, not Janelle. Uh, Shane wins the third. Janelle's not playing it. Uh, Janelle doesn't win any HOHs. Janelle wins the coach's competition. Shane wins the third HOH. Um, and, uh, I mean, this is really just like, you know, Willie wins. It tries to get out. Frank doesn't work. Frank wins. The next one.

[00:44:43] Willie gets expelled, tries to get out. Shane doesn't work. Shane wins. The next one tries to get out. Frank doesn't work. Uh, but you know, in this, in this case, not, not Shane's fault. Um, Shane, uh, of course is going to retaliate, um, and nominate, uh, Ashley and Joe, uh, in order to backdoor Frank, um, not going to give Frank the opportunity to, uh, to try and save himself here.

[00:45:13] Um, and I mean, it, it goes through flawlessly. Uh, Shane wins the veto third veto in a row. He uses it on Ashley. He nominates Frank up next to Joe and, um, and the votes are there for Frank to leave. Everything is set up. Like everything is in place. Um, Frank is set to be evicted in week three. Um, and you know, in the meantime, in, in Boogie and Frank, they're trying to campaign

[00:45:43] like, Hey Dan, you know, we're working together, right? We, you did us a solid. We have your votes. We have Ian and Jen, like that's enough, right? Like, uh, or sorry, not Dan's vote himself, but Danielle's. Um, so if they have Danielle's vote plus Ian and Jen, they should be able to survive. Um, but of course, um, Dan is, is, is thinking, we don't need to keep Frank.

[00:46:13] That's not something we need to do. We're going to vote out Joe over Frank. Like, uh, we don't need to do that. Which of course is objectively just the correct decision. Um, Dan and Frank just never get along. Um, Frank from minute one, uh, he's a big fan of the show. Not a fan of Dan, uh, does not like Dan does not want him there.

[00:46:38] Uh, and you know, would love to, even though Mike Boogie wants to work with him, he does not want to work with Dan. Uh, certainly not long-term. Um, but you know, uh, if he needs his vote, if he has other priorities, that's the situation. But, uh, but Dan knows this. Dan also knows that Frank is a big threat and he wants to take Frank out of the game. So the plan is to betray, uh, Mike Boogie and Frank have Danielle vote Frank out.

[00:47:05] And then Dan will go to Boogie and be like, sorry, sorry. But what, what else do you got? Like you're, what are you going to do? Go back and work with Janelle. You know, that's not going to work. Um, come, come, come back to me. We just needed Frank out of the way. It's Dan's specialty, right? You know, uh, don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness. Um, except twists. Twist.

[00:47:33] Allison, Allison said, you're not taking out my curly haired man. My bushy haired man. How could you? You'll never. Yes. Um, so, uh, this is when the producers decide to invite the coaches into the game. Uh, they give them the opportunity. If, if just one of them presses the button in the diary room, then all of the coaches will enter the game. Three of them press it. One of them doesn't.

[00:48:01] Mike Boogie does not press the button. Uh, Mike Boogie doesn't realize that pressing this button is, is, uh, apparently going to save Frank. Um, because apparently by having the coaches enter the game, they are also going to cancel the eviction because. Of course. Those two things follow. Mm hmm. Yeah. I'm willing to bet that was not part of the plan. And it was probably whether it's, it was going to happen this week or next. I don't care.

[00:48:30] It was not part of the plan. If it was Jojo on the, if it was Jojo on the block. No, I do not believe. I do believe in my heart that this was part of the plan. I do believe that, uh, Willie's expulsion probably gave them more incentive, more sort of like, uh, reason to do something like this. But yeah, I do not think this was part of the original plan.

[00:48:59] Um, because it does, it just like, think about it from the player's perspective. And this is important. I think for the, the season as a whole, you are 12 new players. You enter the game. You're, you're drafted by previous players, two of them, previous winners. Uh, then one of you is evicted immediately that night. You're down to 11. Um, now you're playing this game. And in the middle of you trying to play this game, you have these other people who are your coaches who are making deals for you.

[00:49:29] It's preventing you from being able to nominate who you want to nominate. Um, and you're just trying to, you're being, now you're being targeted because of them. You're just trying to play your own game. And so you're, you're doing your best and you're making it through. And you're, you, you survive an eviction, the night one eviction, you survive, you survive the next eviction. There's an expulsion. And then there's another eviction. And now all of a sudden you're at like the final eight and you're about to go down to the final seven, final seven of big brother. That's, that's huge.

[00:49:59] That's like almost end game final seven. And then all of a sudden production goes. Nah, it's not the final seven. It's the final 12. You're jumping up five spots. Hi. Do we really think that when the four players were coming into this and in negotiation and

[00:50:27] whatever discussion to come back, do you really, really think they didn't say anything? They had to have say, say that there was, there's a chance at least in like legal terms or whatever the hell and contract, whatever it has to say, like, there's a chance you can play. Wasn't there something about that? They knew they were playing. Yeah. Yeah. So they went to hex Mike Boogie. They didn't know, but they knew. But then, but that's why I'm like, why is Mike Boogie so like, he can have his opinion and be against it.

[00:50:57] That's fine. But I'm like, did you really think that you're not pressing the button and saying, sorry, America is like, it's not going to work. Right. Like, you really don't think that the others are not going to rest. Dan Giesling's in there like sitting on the button. Like, no. What did you think? I think that's wild. So yes, not only are four people entering the game, but they're canceling an eviction, which means basically that you're, you're bringing back Frank. Like this is a return.

[00:51:23] This is like an evicted player coming back into the game on top of four other players coming into the game. It's a wild situation and it only like further heats up the animosity that the players have against the coaches. And the one person who should be grateful for this situation, the one person who should be like, you know what? It sucks, but not for me, uh, is Frank, right? No, Frank is not happy about this situation.

[00:51:52] Frank is pissed about this situation. Frank is because Frank thought he was going to survive. He only found out that he was going to be voted out after the fact. So he was already mad about the coaches coming in and then discovered that that's what saved him. And that only made him more mad. Um, and the discussions about the coaches at this point has turned into a fervor of anti-coach sentiment. Uh, there is no shot in hell. We are going to let these people win the game.

[00:52:21] Uh, they're, they're screwing with ours. They're screwing with our season. They're there. You know, this is supposed to be our season. It's all the spotlights on them. They're making decisions. They're impacting the game. They've just brought us to the final 12. Uh, this is not fair. We don't like them. Um, and, uh, and so Frank is pissed. Boogie is pissed as well because, you know, again, the plan was to betray Frank and Boogie, but then, you know, win Boogie back over because he doesn't have Frank anymore.

[00:52:50] But now he does have Frank. And now Dan is forced to sort of explain himself to not only Boogie, but an angry Frank as to like, Oh yeah, I was going to vote you out. I was lying to you. You just caught me lying to you. And there's nothing I can do about it because the entire structure of the game shifted around me to make my lie not effective anymore and get me caught. Uh, and you know, to make matters worse, we are now in a situation where you can evict me.

[00:53:21] Yeah. You know, I think, um, it's very funny because I think Frank is like, I'm shocked that he did not call him. Judas did not call Dan Judas one singular time this season. He had much worse things to say about Dan. They just did not make the edit. A lot of things did not make the edit this season. Uh, lots of things in that back of those backyard fights, by the way, um, from Mike Boogie, but, um, I digress.

[00:53:50] Uh, I, the only person that got close to calling him Judas is probably Joe who called him like the devil himself or whatever it was. So there was that, but yeah. It is around this time, by the way, we mentioned this on season, uh, on our season 12 retrospective, but, uh, Brittany coins the term mist Dan's mist, uh, because every time he walks into a room, he's just so nice that, uh, you're just like, Oh, I like this guy.

[00:54:19] It's like a mist in the air. She says, um, it would work on me. Yeah. Uh, so, um, so now he has to do damage control. Lucky, luckily though, uh, the next HOH competition comes. And Danielle is going to win it. Um, and, uh, and that is, that is huge because it's, it's Dan's one player. And that means that they have some space to make some new deals.

[00:54:43] Um, and basically they maintain their alliance with Brittany and her crew. And she nominates Frank and will one of, uh, bogey's one of Janelle's. And the idea is from, from Dan, at least, can I work? Can I work with the coaches now that we're in the game? Can we get the coaches working together, uh, to, to do something?

[00:55:10] Now, a lot of people criticize, they say, this is perhaps Dan's biggest mistake in big brother 14. And I think it's probably true. Uh, but there's definitely like some, uh, extenuating circumstances. Um, one thing you have to remember is that at this point in the game, Frank has only won a single competition. He won the one HOH. Um, other than that, Shane has wrecked him in veto competitions.

[00:55:38] Uh, Danielle just beat him in an H and an HOH competition. Um, and he's about to lose another veto competition because he loses it to Danielle who has the ability to, uh, to, you know, to use her veto to take Will off the block and instead put up Janelle. Um, and the reason she does this is because Janelle has won two out of the three coaches competitions. Janelle holds the record for most competition wins in a single season.

[00:56:07] Janelle is the comp beast. Janelle is the threat of all threats. Um, and she's also like not easily manipulated. Uh, she's, she had a whole season with Dr. Will and then eventually turned the tables on him. And, uh, at this point is very well tuned to like people like Dan Giesling and she is not going to just like let Dan run a table. Right.

[00:56:34] Um, so the idea is a couple of things. One, Dan kind of needs Mike Boogie to some degree needs Mike Boogie in the game because there's so much anti-coach sentiment. It'd be great to be able to bring Boogie along to the end of the game. Boogie is somebody who might be willing to vote for him in the final two, but he's also somebody who he'd be good to sit next to in the final two potentially. Um, Janelle a bit harder, a bit harder to do that with.

[00:56:59] Um, you know, if, if he's sitting next to Janelle, uh, Janelle's got a lot of like good favor. Janelle might win a jury vote. Um, Janelle also is just so good at competitions. Um, so ideally it's not a big deal. You don't have to choose yet. Uh, you could just try to get these two to work together. You take Frank out and, uh, and get Boogie and Janelle on board. The problem is Boogie will not play ball.

[00:57:29] Boogie will not play ball. And Janelle is making it clear. She is not really willing to work with Boogie either. They've, they've had this sort of like coach's agreement, but, uh, there's so much history there that like, it's just not really happening. And that vote between Frank and Joe, uh, where they were campaigning against each other leading up to the, the canceled eviction, um, definitely like exposed a lot of that history in those cracks.

[00:57:57] Um, and so, uh, Dan is trying to get these two to reconcile and they're making, they're both making it clear that it's just not going to happen. Um, and so they don't like each other. They don't like each other. They don't like each other. He has to make a call. Uh, and the call is let's take out Janelle and we'll let's work with Mike Boogie. Um, and they create the silent six Alliance. Um, and this gives them a majority.

[00:58:26] This gives them a great, uh, you know, uh, power structure to move forward with. And the cost of it is that we take Janelle out of the game who is known for being unbeatable in competitions. So, you know, it's a tough call, you know, arguably the wrong one, but they end up deciding to go and evict Janelle over Frank. And that is the end of Janelle in season 14.

[00:58:55] Yeah. We didn't get enough Janelle. And this marks a point where Janelle's reality TV career, at least on big brother, it seems as though this is her fate. She walks in with a giant target on her back in this season in particular. Doesn't help that Mike Boogie's there. And again, they're not really feeling each other. Every scene with them together, trying to interact was the, the tension was so palpable in a negative way that it was coming through the screen onto me.

[00:59:25] For me, I felt uncomfortable. I couldn't imagine like trying to like play together. It was never going to happen anyway. Um, so yeah, we just, we didn't get enough of with her. Um, a lot of people have said like she wasn't active enough, um, in this season and then her following season in 22. But I just think that Janelle at this point too, was like carrying, still carrying the franchise on her back as like the queen of big brother.

[00:59:53] And maybe still is, maybe still is seen as that. Um, so that was never going to help her when she was coming into the house. I mean, when you see them each individually, all four walk into the house on day one, I think she got like probably the biggest cheers. So I, I do think that she was not long for this, unfortunately. And like, also I wanted to say this before we move on from her, the team that she picked is so funny.

[01:00:21] It's so funny to me because she's just like, okay, I'm going to pick the girls and the gays and we're just going to vibe out. Like that's so me. Like she really fed. What's especially funny about it is then her team hated her. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Turned on her immediately. Um, so, you know, that's just par for the course, I guess. I don't know. And here's the thing too, like for as much as I think, uh, and I don't think this is like the biggest, obviously the biggest thing people talk about the season 14 is like jury management stuff, which I honestly think is a lot less interesting.

[01:00:50] Uh, the more interesting, and I think often discussed strategically, uh, discussed move of the season is this Janelle decision, which I thought was made more nuanced by, uh, the appearance on the traders where like Janelle makes a move on the traders that basically tanks both her and Dan, uh, pretty significantly for basically no reason, which then made me reconsider this idea.

[01:01:17] Like maybe it wasn't as big a mistake for Dan to take out Janelle here. Uh, like, I don't know. Um, but anyway, this was it for Janelle. Uh, I, an overall disappointing performance in the season for people who, this was the first time we'd seen her since all stars, which was her biggest, uh, you know, uh, showing in a season, of course, to this point. And one of the biggest showings of all time.

[01:01:42] Um, so for her to come back and be fairly quiet to not really, uh, you know, she only competes in one HOH, uh, and then, and then is basically evicted. And it's just like, uh, that was unfortunate. And people were very upset with Dan. Dan was, uh, was always a big fan favorite for a long time. This is the first time I remember seeing significant pushback to Dan from the fans. Uh, like basically anybody who was a fan of Janelle now considered Dan to be the devil.

[01:02:11] They didn't want anyone to mess with their queen. Yeah. Give it. He's the key. If he's the king, that's fine, but don't mess with our queen. Yes. So then begins almost as if it's karma coming back. Uh, Janelle's karma coming back at him then begins the worst stretch of competition outcomes for a single player.

[01:02:37] I think in the history of the show, um, because the next person to win an HOH of course is Frank. Um, Frank who was just, you know, theoretically saved by Dan's decision to take out, uh, Janelle instead of him, but also was just nominated by Dan's player and faced a vote because of Dan and his player. Uh, and also just two weeks prior had been lied to by Dan and was about to be evicted by Dan.

[01:03:07] Um, and so despite the fact that they had just made an alliance, uh, the, the secret six, uh, the silent six, I should say. Um, Frank is heavily, heavily considering taking Dan out. The week after Janelle leaves when he wins this HOH. Um, and it is basically the entire storyline of this week is Frank telling the rest of the alliance.

[01:03:35] I really want to backdoor Dan. Can I, can I please do it? What, what, what, what if, what if I did a little bit? Like, what if we just like, just like on the block? Like what's the heart? What's the heart? And Boogie, Brittany, uh, you know, Shane, everyone has to talk him down. Everyone's like, no, no, no. It's too early. Don't make the move yet. It's too early. You're jumping the gun. It's too cute. Don't do this.

[01:04:02] Um, and, uh, and so like, I can tell you as a Dan fan at the time, this was a very stressful week. Uh, it felt like every single day, every single hour, it was like, okay, Frank has decided not to target Dan. Two hours later, he's talking about it again. He's thinking about it again. He's, he's, well, my God. It was a lot. Yep. You were on the feeds at this point. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:04:33] That's, I wish I was. I wish I was. Um, and not for this week. This was a rough one. I would say, cause I'm the same as you. I would be very stressed out as well, but yeah, I, I don't know. I feel like. Yeah. If you are ever a big brother player and you find yourself thinking it's too early to go after this person. And again, I'm a Dan super fan, but you go after that person in that moment. Don't hesitate because, oh my God, it's going to come back to bite you in the ass.

[01:05:02] Um, even though he didn't take it all the way, but he knocked all the rest of y'all out. Except being. And that's the, that's the thing too, is that he, he talked to like everybody about it. Yeah. Uh, and thought he could just like get away with it. Um, of course Dan immediately found out afterward. Uh, and, um, and was like,

[01:05:23] so instead, instead Frank spends the week, he wins HOH and veto and, uh, ends up evicting, uh, Will, uh, from the game. Who was charismatic, but really just not a huge threat, uh, in the game. Absolutely a mistake to not target Dan. And the fact that Frank made this mistake. Repeat it after me. Only made him more mad at Dan.

[01:05:55] Because everything that happened in the game, whether it was his fault, production's fault, or Dan's fault, it was all Dan's fault. He's such an easy target though, Taryn. Like you have to admit it. Like the guy is so easy to be like, I'm pissed. Just rant. Cause he's not going to like get mad at you back. Rant and rave at this man. He doesn't care. He will sit quiet or he'll just take it. Also, before I forget, cause it will fall out of my brain.

[01:06:22] Will, at the time, I know you were there live. I wasn't. And I still know about this. Will, when he gets evicted, he goes home and he uploads on his YouTube channel. Impersonations of the whole episode. And he got, he's got the wigs. He's got everything. He's got the voices down. Like if they still exist too, by the way, if you can find his, type out his full name onto YouTube right now, if you haven't seen these, they're so funny.

[01:06:50] Bill, one of those players that I think was known for a while as like, not that I think people found him to be like not entertaining or disappointing on the season, but like he was one of the people that like after the season, after he was evicted, he was like, oh, I like him so much more now. This is incredible content. And he was doing those, those, those videos for years, I think. Yeah. After his season. People loved them. The, the, the impressions.

[01:07:17] He would basically just like recreate scenes from episodes. Full on like wigs and voices, like a whole thing. I don't know why he stopped. I know. And it's like so early internet to the point, not early, but like that peak internet YouTube stretch, like where the shoes song was like going viral on YouTube and like YouTubers were in their like heyday. So I feel like it's just so pure. If you're ever in a bad mood, go watch it.

[01:07:46] I'm telling you. Mm hmm. Um, so. Will is evicted and, uh, Shane ends up winning the next HOH. And now it's at this point that we need to talk about, uh, the other big alliance that was secretly, uh, plotting along, uh, alongside the silent six.

[01:08:09] The silent six, of course, was Dan, um, uh, Brittany, Shane, Danielle, uh, Boogie, and, uh, Frank. I think that is six people that I just said. Um, and so, uh, that was like the actual alliance.

[01:08:27] However, on the, on the other side of that, right after they finished making that alliance, one Ian Terry walked into the HOH dressed in a dog costume at the time. And was basically like, Hey, I want to be in an alliance. Um, and thus was born the quack pack. Uh, because basically here's the thing.

[01:08:54] Ian was on Mike Boogie's team. He was on the team, Mike Boogie, Frank, Gen City, and himself, Ian. Um, Ian was, was happy to have been picked by Mike Boogie. He's a big fan of the show. He's like, Oh my God, Mike Boogie. One of the greats has me on his team. This is amazing. And then Mike Boogie then proceeded to, after saving Ian from eviction, to be fair, spend all of his time and energy on Frank.

[01:09:24] Uh, and basically none of it on Ian. Uh, Frank and, and, and Boogie were two peas in a pod. They woke up and smoked out in the backyard every morning, talking smack about people. Uh, and basically just had no energy or time for Ian, who was like, what the hell? Uh, like, you are clearly leaving me out of this. So Ian wanted to start making moves of his own.

[01:09:54] Um, and just wanted to be in, wanted to be included in anything really. Um, and so that's when he, uh, right off of the tail of, uh, the silent six being formed goes into the room. And here, here we go. There's four people who just made a six person alliance with Boogie and Frank. And he's now asking like, Hey, can we, uh, can we, uh, have an alliance of some sort? And they're just like, let me see. You know what? Yeah.

[01:10:22] Um, yeah, we can, I think we've got one of those, right? Sure. Why not? Yeah. This is the four of us. That's what a, what a great group you just pinpointed. Uh, and then, yeah. And then you, that's like, uh, that's a six, that's five, five person. It's called like the silent, uh, the, the, the final, uh, it's a five person. What do you, what do you think? What do you call it? Uh, and, and, and, you know, it's called the quack pack. Um, it's a fake alliance. It's fully just a fake alliance.

[01:10:50] There's zero intention to do anything with this alliance. It's literally just because you don't say no to a person asking to work together. Uh, he happened to catch them in the room and they were just like, yeah, sure. Uh, he came up with a name. They made fun of it after the fact they had no intention of following through on this. However, Ian provide, ended up providing some valuable information because Ian was still

[01:11:17] getting some information from Frank and Boogie who felt like, oh, Ian's on our team. Even though we don't really give him the time of day, we can give him some information about what we're thinking and some sort of future plans because, you know, Boogie and Frank are part of the silent six, but they still have two other people on their team. Uh, Brittany, her only player left is Shane. Dan, his only player left is Danielle. So, you know, ostensibly this is an evenly, uh, uh, balanced alliance with like two people

[01:11:45] from each original team. But Boogie still has two other people and he wants to use those people, uh, to, to have an actual advantage in the game. So he's not completely leaving them alone. He's kind of like providing them just enough information to keep them strong along or at least so he thinks. And then he will use them to eventually like take over this alliance, right? That's sort of like the idea. But Ian is now secretly working with the alliance that Boogie thinks he's working with and is

[01:12:14] giving information away, telling them about the things that Boogie is saying to him, which go against the alliance and talk about how the alliance is not something that Boogie really plans to, uh, to stay loyal to long-term. And this gives Shane all the ammunition he needs to just strike right back at Frank. Once again, Boogie and Frank go on the block and, uh, you'll never guess it.

[01:12:42] They're pissed and they're pissed at Dan. And he continues to let that happen. He continues to take the fall for Ian on this, in this particular week for Ian. Um, you know what? My thing with Mike Boogie's game is that he, I don't know how to say this without like sounding weird, but he's too obsessed with like one other man. Like he just needs that one other man.

[01:13:12] That's my bestie. That's my guy. That's my ride or die. And like, I typically like, you know, Danielle and Jason, I just hit my mic. Sorry. I got passionate. You're saying that Mike Boogie is just too obsessed with a man, another man to, you know, like, like that, like that could get him in trouble. You know, insignificant amounts. Yes. Repeatedly as well. Um, but you know what? In this case, um, yeah, it's just too visible. It's too visible.

[01:13:41] He puts all of his energy into one basket and it's way too visible. And in this case, someone like Ian is far smarter than both of those people. And it's going to, you know, bite back into I'm playing my own game. And if you're, if these, if I'm providing valuable information to these people, they're going to want to keep reeling me in. Correct me if I'm wrong. Ian did not, at this point, he did not realize that they were all working together. Right? No. This part I'm a little spotty on. Yeah. Okay. Yes.

[01:14:09] So, Hey, he took his spot. I don't think Ian ever knew for sure that there, that there was an, a full on alliance happening at that point. Um, so, so here's the thing. This, you know, this, what happens is Shane nominates Boogie and Frank. Frank ends up winning the veto, of course, saving himself and damning Mike Boogie to be evicted because there's no way you're going to, you know, let both of them stay in the game.

[01:14:36] So, uh, Jen city goes on the block as a replacement for Frank and Mike Boogie gets voted out. Um, the reason that Shane gives for breaking up the Alliance they just made is we heard that, you know, that you guys were essentially talking smack that you guys were planning to portray us. Um, and that information came from Ian.

[01:15:00] Frank and Boogie think that the information is coming from Dan because they both don't respect Ian enough as a player to, to like comprehend that he would have leaked that information. They think only Dan could have been responsible for our downfall. And it's because I, you know, Frank was, I, I knew I should have backed or Dan last week. I told you Boogie, I should have done it. Oh my God. Now we're screwed. I should have taken out Dan. It's all, it's all Dan's fault.

[01:15:29] And in the meantime, they're confronting Dan about it. And Dan's like, yeah, I didn't do it. I don't know what to tell you. And Boogie's like, I know Dan that he's all of a sudden Dan doesn't have anything to say. No, I can read him like a book. I know he did it. Um, and he never has anything to say. So he never does. So Dan is taking all this heat, but, but here's, here's the thing though.

[01:15:58] None of this really mattered. The information that Ian gave them was not the real reason that Shane turned on Frank. He would, he would have done that anyway. The real reason was that Frank just spent an entire week trying to convince his alliance that he should betray the Alliance. Of course they're going to turn him the next. They didn't need anything else. It was just an excuse they used because that's what you do in big brother. They were throwing heat onto somebody else.

[01:16:26] So instead of being mad at Shane, they'd be mad at either Ian or weirdly Dan. He, Shane thought he was throwing Ian under the bus. And then, and then all of a sudden they're blaming Dan for it. And it's like, well, I guess, yeah, I'm happy for them to blame Dan for it too. Uh, but the reality is that like, this would have happened anyway. All of this search for a blame was pointless. Boogie and Frank got completely tricked by Shane of all people. Uh, into not being mad at Shane for doing a thing he probably would have done anyway, regardless of any of this information.

[01:16:55] Um, but they just felt like they needed, they, they needed a different bad guy. And that bad guy was Dan. Um, and so Boogie leaves the game and Dan is taking all of the heat. Now, Dan taking the heat is just such an interesting move because there's so much, let me tell you the amount of smack being talked. Oh, I remember what I talked about. They went out and smoked in the morning. It got bad. It got bad after this.

[01:17:21] The, uh, the things that they were saying, um, especially now in the context of like, what has been actually done in real life, apparently, allegedly is like actually kind of scary. Um, but, uh, but at the time, uh, they were just very, very mad at Dan and Dan continued to take, he, he considered, should I let them know it's Ian? Should I rat this, this kid out? Uh, I'm taking all this heat for nothing.

[01:17:47] Um, but there are a couple of, uh, of like valuable things that, that occurred because of it. One thing in particular was like the Alliance is kind of like, well, thank you, Dan. Like, like it's great that Dan's taking all this heat for us. Um, and the other, of course, is that he's going to be able to use this as like a bomb to drop if he needs to later, which of course is going to come into play. Um, so Boogie is voted out.

[01:18:14] Uh, and Ian tells him, uh, get to step in, get to step. And he leaves the goodbye message. And she says, it was me. I masterminded your demise. And he stands up. Well, he doesn't stand up, but he does an iconic clap and tips his hat and says he's proud, which was like a good moment. You know, I remembered it. I loved it. But it's also funny because as this is happening outside with Julie in the house,

[01:18:44] Frank is yelling at Ian and saying, he gave you his money from the, I think it was the coaches competition that he won. He like gave him, um, the cash prize or whatever it was. He was like, after all he's done for you. And Ian's just like, like nervously, like fighting back. I loved Ian getting in people's faces. It was so good. Right. Because, because here's what happens. It's, uh, it's double eviction.

[01:19:13] And Ian wins the HOH and he nominates Ashley and Frank, uh, which is a blind side to Frank. Um, and, and to Ashley to some degree, because they went on a whole date. Uh, again, this is like, this is, these are the dynamics of this whole situation that like, um, in, in, in an effort to like integrate socially, Ian has cultivated this like thing about like, oh, I have this big crush on Ashley.

[01:19:42] And, and Boogie is like, oh, you should go on a date with her. And like, he's telling Ashley, oh, you should go on the date with Ian. And like, nobody thinks this is an actual date. This is like a, like, oh, we're having fun. Right. Um, and, uh, and so like they do this whole thing. And then like, not long after Frank and Ashley like make out on the couch. Um, and it, it just, it just sort of was like, like they had to,

[01:20:12] had no seemingly no feelings for each other or anything like that. It was just the sort of thing where it was just like, if you're Ian, it's just like, well, what, what, what are you encouraging me to do this for? If you're just going to make out. Like, are you making fun of me? That's kind of how it reads. Right. Right. Um, and so, uh, so Ian puts them both on the block and Frank is now not realizing that Ian was the reason that he was on the block in the first place, but thinking like, oh, Ian's just jumping on now, piling on, uh,

[01:20:42] what, what, what a dummy, what a bad decision. Like this is such a bad thing. Frank and Ashley on the block. Frank wins another veto. So Frank has now won, uh, he won HOH veto. Then he won the next veto. He loses the HOH in the double eviction, but then wins the double eviction veto. Uh, which means he's safe, which means Ashley takes the hit here in the double eviction. Um, and now a pissed off Frank, uh, is looking for revenge.

[01:21:10] Uh, but this is it for Ashley, uh, known for her dream board. Uh, and basically, you know, that whole situation with Ian Frank. I mean, Hey, if I had to pick someone from the baby 14 cast to like go to brunch with it's Ashley. So like you go girl. That's all I can give right now. Hmm. Yes. And of course, yeah. Joe was the replacement for Frank, uh, during the double eviction.

[01:21:39] And he, uh, you know, for all of Joe's faults gives perhaps one of the best, uh, eviction pleas, um, in, in the history of the show, uh, which was when he, he didn't say anything. Oh, yes. I first, I was like, wait, I don't remember. That's why. Uh, um, credible. So. Double eviction ends.

[01:22:08] They are going to play HOH. And, uh, everyone is against Frank, which ironically, a little bit jumping on there. Ironically gives him an advantage in this competition because, uh, it is a competition where you are like trying to, you're like choosing an opponent. You're like basically the person who everyone wants out of the game is being, uh, chosen to play more than anyone else.

[01:22:34] But that gives him the ability to play more often and practice the competition. Um, and it means that he ends up winning the HOH and he is out for Dan's blood. The history between these two at this point, uh, Dan, like he was not a fan of Dan in the first place. They, he, he, Dan campaigned against him in week one. Uh, then Dan won him and boogie over just in time for Dan to betray him.

[01:23:02] And he was about to vote him out when he instead pushed a button that added four more people to the game. Uh, and you know, it turns out he was lying to him the whole time and was about to evict him. Um, then won him back over again, create an alliance with him. Frank came so close to taking Dan out because he didn't trust him. He decided not to cause everyone told him not to. And then immediately regretted it because Dan, uh, was the cause.

[01:23:30] Dan, then, then betrayed them and put him in boogie on the block. And now boogie's gone. And now he's winning all these competitions. And he came into this game thinking I'm going to be the next chill town with boogie. We don't even need to win competitions. And now here he is on the block every single week that he hasn't won a competition, having to win competitions to stay alive. And it's all Dan's fault. And now finally, finally, I can do something about it and I can take him out of the game. He nominates Dan and Danielle.

[01:24:00] But there's a problem. Uh, there's an extra veto added this week. Um, and that is an issue. Uh, and the conspiracy theorists say this was added for Dan's benefit. Um, it ended up hurting Dan because he did not win it. Instead, Ian won it. The next viable target, the person he was planning to throw under the bus, his best option of staying alive ends up safe. Terrible outcome for Dan.

[01:24:28] Again, these are the worst competition outcomes. Frank is unevictable for weeks after, uh, after this whole situation. Um, and then, you know, we'll talk about the Ian situation as well, but basically Ian wins this veto, which means Ian can't be evicted. He would have been evicted if not for this bonus veto, but it can't be Ian. Um, then they play the actual veto and, uh, there's no Dan. Dan does not win. He can't win this one.

[01:24:59] Uh, Jen city ends up winning this. Frank disqualifies himself, uh, by cheating. Did he whisper the answers? Yeah. Yeah. He was trying to help the other people so that Dan wouldn't be able to win. This is so desperate. This is how desperate Frank is to take Dan out of the game that he is taking as many punishments as he needs to. He, he gets into a carrot costume. He's whispering the answers to other people explicitly against the rules so that Dan won't win this veto. He is desperate to take this guy out of the game.

[01:25:28] Um, and after that veto competition, Dan is sent to solitary confinement. Um, and it's look at, I mean, there's just nothing left to do. Frank's closest ally left in the game is Jen city. The, like the person least likely to use the veto at this point. Um, and on top of that, we should talk about Brittany because while all of this has, all of this is happening, Brittany is, is setting herself up because the second Frank won this HOH, she was like, damn it.

[01:25:58] This guy, we can't get him out. This is annoying. We didn't want him to win HOH, but I mean, if he's going to take Dan out for us, whoops, whoopsie. Uh, because if Frank takes out Dan and then they're able to get Frank out next, because he's not going to be able to win HOH again. Um, where does that leave Brittany? It leaves her with herself. Ian, who's only looking at her.

[01:26:26] Uh, Shane, who's closely aligned with her with now full control over Danielle. Um, and like who, who's going to stop them? Chef Joe and Jen. Hey, you never know, Taryn. You don't know what was going to happen. Could have gone on a competition run. She's in a crushing position. Um, and she's working all week long to kind of like set herself up and make sure Dan can't escape from this noose.

[01:26:55] Uh, and she's basically like doing prep work, tanking Dan at every opportunity. Uh, making sure the entire Alliance is like down to make sure that Dan gets voted out here. Um, making sure that Frank is not going to change his mind. Like she's putting in a ton of work this week. And again, like this bonus veto, such a spanner in the works for Brittany on top of everything else.

[01:27:21] Because again, this, the second time in the game, this would have been Ian, but instead it lands on Brittany because Ian is safe. Um, and of course that all happens because while Dan is in solitary confinement, he comes up with a plan. Uh, there's always a way out of every situation. And, uh, in this situation, uh, it is that he is going to host his own funeral.

[01:27:45] Um, now I've told this story before, but like my experience of watching this on the feeds was basically like, this was a stressful season, right? Like between the Frank week and then Frank winning the veto again, and then, uh, surviving. And then immediately like Frank is HOH again. And I, when Frank won that HOH, I was just like, all right, it's over. Like, uh, I, I like Brittany was transitioning into like, all right, here we go, Brittany. Okay.

[01:28:15] For those of us who weren't there, I'm asking you on the feeds. I mean, where did they have a camera on Dan the whole time? In that whole time? I don't think. Okay. Um, you could see him. Was he talking out loud? He was, he was like, uh, we, we could definitely see him at times. Um, I remember people being, uh, like, has he lost his mind? Uh, he's like talking to himself.

[01:28:40] Uh, I remember like there was a whole situation with like, uh, like hygiene seemed to be an issue. Like, uh, like it seems smelly in there. Uh, it was like, you know, there was like the lights and the noise. Um, and, but nobody like really knew what he was planning. Like, it wasn't like he was like detailing his plan out loud. Yeah. Um, and so like I, as soon as Frank won this HOH, I was like, I was like, this sucks.

[01:29:06] Uh, like just worst possible outcome again, uh, for the competition. Um, and I'm seeing Brittany like set Dan up and I'm like, damn it, Brittany, I got to respect it. Like, uh, and then, you know, the veto happens. He loses at that point. I was like, all right, this is, this is just, this is just rough. And Dan gets sent to solitary confinement and I'm, I'm, I'm peaced out. Like, uh, like I'm not, I'm not in this, like, I don't remember if the fees were on the whole time. I wasn't like watching Dan in solitary confinement.

[01:29:35] I was just like, all right, time to do my, you know, I don't remember it was summer. So like, uh, I don't remember what I was doing at that. Um, but, uh, I remember still like checking in and when Dan was supposed to come out of solitary confinement, I remember I was reading, it was like, you know, probably jokers updates. Um, and the first thing I saw was this is like, this isn't going to do anything.

[01:30:05] I don't know why Dan thinks like he can change anything. Like this is not going to work. And I was like, what's not going to work. What are you, what are you, what are you, what are you talking about? And I jumped on the feeds and Dan has like come out of solitary confinement. He's like, oh, I'm not feeling well. Uh, he wants to talk to everyone. And that's why everyone's like, oh, he's clearly got something planned. But like, like, what does he think is going to happen here? You know, like, oh, oh, oh, nobody sees what you're going to do here, Dan. Like, oh, of course, nobody, nobody thought it was going to work.

[01:30:35] He starts hosting his own funeral. He starts, you know, doing the whole speech as we've seen before. Uh, he's shares nice things about everyone. Um, and he concludes it with, uh, Danielle. Well, you know, when I came into this game, I, I, I thought, uh, I could find somebody like Memphis Garrett who inhabited those qualities. And I found you just want you to know that in this game, you're dead to me. You know what you did. You're dead to me.

[01:31:05] I don't want to speak to you. Like we're not going to talk game anymore. You know what you did. Uh, the way they edited that too was wild. The zoom ins. Nobody saw this coming. No, because he's not talking about it. That's why I asked. I'm like, is he like even saying, and cause like the way that they edited it for the show

[01:31:30] was that he was just like, not feeling exactly what you said, like not feeling well. So I thought, did he say anything like out loud ever, which would have been fascinating, but that's even better. Yeah. Uh, it's just, it's this massive thing. Nobody sees it coming. And it was just like, what just happened? And here's the thing too. It worked on the audience. It worked on the feeders because while Dan goes up and talks to Frank, everyone is talking

[01:31:59] about like, what does he, what does he mean? What did she do? Everyone's trying to figure it out. And in the meantime, there's a conversation happening between Dan and Frank. And he is finally revealing all of the information, telling the timeline of right after the silent six was formed. None other than Ian comes up. We create the quack pack. Ian is leaking information the entire time. I wanted to make this work, but Ian is bringing this information that you're trying to come

[01:32:27] after me, that you're trying to break up the alliance. And, um, and, uh, and then on top of that, it's not just revealing that Ian was, was the, the, the, the mole, the rat. Um, but on top of that, it's portraying an accurate, uh, uh, like read on the structure of the house. Like you have to understand that like, they're all happy for me to leave. I'm not like this master power player right now.

[01:32:56] They all want me gone because I'm the most expendable one. I'm not the one that's been bringing information. Think about it. Like Ian has been at the root of this and who is pulling Ian's strings, Brittany. And once I'm gone, Brittany is primed to run this game is essentially what he's saying. And it's all true. Yeah. Um, and it's a harder case to make than like, just go after Ian. Uh, that would have been easier. Instead he has to, you know, bring this entire situation and paint this entire picture.

[01:33:24] Um, and in, in force, you know, Frank to go after something, he liked Brittany. Uh, like he wasn't able to use like the emotional, uh, frustration toward Ian as much as he was. Um, and you see this too, when, when Frank eventually makes the move, he's like, I wish it could be Ian, but instead I'm going to take out your girl, Brittany. Um, and so he makes this play. Uh, this is a big, this is a big thing. He swears on the Bible that everything he's saying is the truth, which is true, which is true.

[01:33:54] Uh, but of course, Frank takes issue with this, uh, like he does with everything Dan does. Um, and they make a deal that in Frank's position, he can, he can continue to take Dan out of this game and then be on the outs again, everyone gunning for him the next week, or he can make a deal with Dan. They can take out Brittany and they can run the show together. And that's the only hope that Frank has.

[01:34:24] And it's such a compelling argument because it's true. Yeah. If you can trust Dan, which he couldn't. Um, but you know, it was still something and to get Frank off of, again, this at this point, by the time, uh, uh, Brittany is evicted, she's evicted like day 55.

[01:34:46] Uh, so Frank has spent the better part of 55 days hating this man, wanting this man gone, not trusting this man for Dan to be able to overturn. That is just remarkable. Um, it's something that you just, you just don't see ever on these shows. Um, and a lot of people will point to like the theatrics of the funeral and how necessary they were.

[01:35:10] Um, again, I've talked about this plenty, but like it was, you know, you can debate whether or not it was necessary, but like, it was definitely an added benefit because in order for Frank to feel what Dan is saying that to feel that like, Dan is on the outs, Dan is about to be voted out. Nobody likes Dan. He had to sort of see it rightly again to like actually see that like Dan just made an ass of himself.

[01:35:37] Um, and, uh, they're all mad at Dan now. And it's like, you know, how is he going to recover from something like that? Uh, and, and it's just like, at the same time, it's distracting everyone below. It's, uh, separating himself from, uh, from Danielle. There's so many different layers to this. And it's the sort of thing where it's like, if you are this dead in the water again, nobody has come back from a situation like this. Nobody has been this dead in the water and been able to survive.

[01:36:04] So the idea that you'd be like, well, it took 23 steps and he took 20 and he took 25 steps. It only, he only needed 23, but he took 25. It's like, at what point are you going to say, I'm not going to take every possible step necessary to hopefully make this happen when it's really never even happened before, uh, ever. Um, it's like, of course, he's going to try to do everything he can every last bit,

[01:36:30] every tiny percentage point available to make this more, uh, likely to succeed. You have to take in this spot. Uh, I think it's wild for people to be like, ah, he could have done it if, uh, without, without this part of it. It's like, well, come on. But why, but also why though, is my question. Another thing, a part of the theatrics being important is that yes, it keeps everyone distracted, but it also keeps everyone like feeling bad for Danielle.

[01:36:58] So there was also like a looming threat of, well, they could just vote Danielle out if they take Dan off, but no, but she, people feel bad. Even he says it to her too, when she's like, what the hell's wrong with you? And he says the iconic line of, or something like, why did you make that up? And then he says, well, if I didn't, you wouldn't have cried. Totally deadpan face, which is so like, you have to do that. You got to put on the theatrics because she has to cry and they make people feel bad. They don't vote her out.

[01:37:26] And this is like the first of many, uh, Dan and Danielle conversations where like, she really just starts to get, uh, put through the ringer in terms of like emotional roller coaster. Um, and he has her so firmly at this point. It's, I, I've never seen a situation like this before where like somebody is in, to be fair, not like a full blown showmance, but a pretty close to showmance showmance.

[01:37:53] And the person who has more influence on her is somebody else. Uh, like, like fully the, the, like the, and cause it's not like Dan had Shane locked in the way that he did Danielle. Um, to like have like a, like a, uh, uh, a situation where like they, like a Raven and Matt situation where they were both indoctrinated. It was like, no, no, Dan just had more influence over Danielle.

[01:38:18] Um, and so, uh, so he goes back to Danielle and says, I, I had to do, I, I think I just found a way to save both of us. Um, and, uh, wins her back over, um, and, uh, and gets this entire situation locked in. And then it was the, the state of the live feed viewers at this point were like, now we

[01:38:42] hold because I think this gets forgotten, but like, I think in my memory, I don't remember this. I think it was two days before the veto ceremony. Yeah. It was, it was, it was somewhere between one and two days, I think. And so it was like, okay, this massive thing has happened, but will anybody find out in the next two days? Will this plan get blown up?

[01:39:09] And so it was just like this holding pattern, this stasis. They went to Gen City. She was on board, but she had to keep pretending like she was not going to use her veto. Um, and so just waiting, the waiting game, waiting, waiting, waiting. Danielle couldn't reveal anything. Dan couldn't let it, let it on to anybody. Um, you know, Gen and, and, uh, Frank had to keep this under wraps.

[01:39:33] Um, and in the meantime, like Brittany is still moving and, and, and Ian is really starting to get into his like, uh, I'm the boss phase. Uh, he's blowing smoke. Uh, you know, he's like, look at me. I am big man on campus. Dan's about to leave. And, you know, we're about to run things. Um, and then they get to the veto ceremony and, uh, the tables get turned.

[01:40:01] Um, Brittany goes up on the block. And of course, Brittany is going to be voted out of the game. Uh, brutal spot, brutal spot here for Brittany. It wouldn't have been her if not for the bonus veto. She was in such a great position. Anybody in the world other than Dan Giesling in this spot is not able to pull off what he did. And she's still sitting so pretty and probably wins this entire game. Yeah. You know, watching Brittany on the traders this season, I kept telling, I was watching with my

[01:40:30] parents and I would tell them who have not seen her seasons, the way that she went out on both of her seasons were just so brutal in different ways. Oh, sorry. We're so brutal in different ways that it just made me want her to wit, want her to get like a redemption story. I wanted it in reindeer games as well, but in the traders even more so. Um, and I didn't get either of those things, but that is okay. Um, and it just, just, just, you know, the way that she went out.

[01:40:59] And I do think that she really, truly made a name for herself. People just saw her as the DR girl, uh, a good social player, a funny girl, like America liked her, what have you. But I really feel like to your point about her placement in the house, take this week out of it. And it all goes according to plan. She could very well win or at least make it to the final two. Um, and it really, I think it underrates her strategic game.

[01:41:29] And so I think, you know, she, she made a name for herself with this season. And I, I, you know what? I want to see her come back and play big brother again. I don't know if it's going to happen, but I would love to see that. Um, yes. Uh, uh, we do have a question in the chat as well about like the order of the video. This was something talked about. It's still talked about, uh, that basically Ian had to decide not to use his veto first. And then, uh, Jen was able to use her veto theoretically.

[01:41:59] If, uh, Jen had to use her veto first, um, then Ian could have used his veto after to save Brittany, the newly nominated Brittany, um, from the block. And that might have screwed everything up even more. Um, however, I personally don't see any like, um, uh, like intention behind this. It would have been pretty wild for this random bonus veto to be even more powerful in the sense

[01:42:27] that like now it supersedes the actually one veto. Um, so, uh, I don't think there's anything too conspiratorial here, but, uh, certainly would have mattered. The order does matter for sure. Um, okay. So Brittany leaves, uh, before she leaves, she's going to really lay it into, uh, to Dan, but in the funniest way it's ever happened. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and you know, I'm just realizing right now we skipped her goodbye message talking

[01:42:56] about her, her, her goodbye message to boogie. We totally just glazed over that. Um, you know, she had her moments in this season as well that were very reminiscent of her season 12. Hey day. She's just always going to be hilarious. So I'm, I'm thrilled to have seen her. Yes. It's at this point that, uh, the season starts to slow down in the eyes of some, at least

[01:43:24] for the next couple of, uh, weeks. Granted, there's really not much time left in the season at this point. Um, Ian wins the next HOH, uh, and takes a shot right back at Frank, nominates Frank and Jen city. Um, and so, uh, you know, the new Alliance of Frank and Dan, Dan is like, Oh man, we did good. You know, they don't see that we're aligned. Ian didn't think to nominate the both of us in the meantime.

[01:43:53] Uh, and Dan didn't know for sure that this would work. Um, but he's able to pull the quack pack back together without Brittany's influence. They crumble to his leadership. Um, and this is why some people again, find this portion of the season to be a bit slow because it basically just becomes, let's all hold Dan's hand to the end of the game. Yep. Uh, there's no resistance left.

[01:44:20] The second Brittany leaves, it's, it's like the mist just envelops everyone. And, uh, and Dan is in complete control outside of a couple of key moments and more importantly, the competition outcomes. Um, so Ian wins this puts up Frank and Jen and Dan is saying like, ah, man, good thing. Good thing. I'm not nominated, man. We should really hope I win the veto so I can save you. Remember when Memphis did that for me, let's make this happen.

[01:44:49] Hoping that he can get Frank to essentially throw the veto to him, which, uh, Frank doesn't really throw the veto to him. Um, but, uh, but like the idea was in his head that it was a good outcome for Dan to win. And so guess what, what that means? It makes him more mad at Dan. Yep. I thought about throwing the veto to you or you would trade me. Um, the more tricked he was, the more mad he was.

[01:45:16] Uh, and so, um, Dan ends up winning the veto, uh, and, uh, convinces, uh, Frank that it's in his best interest that he does not use the veto on Frank. Uh, then instead he uses the veto on Jen. Um, and Frank is like, does that make sense? I don't think that makes sense, Dan. And then Dan, uh, accidentally lets, uh, lets it out that like, uh, yeah.

[01:45:44] So next week, um, when, uh, when Joe is here, um, then Frank's like, what, what do you mean? What do you mean when I'm here? Because Joe's going to be gone. He's like, oh, you're totally right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When Joe's gone. Uh, of course Dan uses this. The fact that he's taking Jen off the block to pull Jen to his side. So now he even has Jen on board. And in, and at this point, Dan's plan is to go to the end with Jen, um, uh, which is probably

[01:46:13] his best shot at winning this game at this point. Um, and he fully gets her on his side. And, and again, at this point, there's nobody left who is not on his side other than Joe. Uh, Joe is the sole, uh, Dan hater left in the game. Um, and they have a funny moment where, uh, Joe is trying to talk some smack about Dan and Dan says, this is, this is Dan. This is, this is, this is the guy that you're talking about. Oh my God.

[01:46:42] Why does Joe? Okay. Joe is like a non-entity and not in a sense that like, I mean, I mean, like, let's be honest. He's kind of a little bit of a non-entity, um, in terms of like, like major strategy. Like, yes, he's got Dan clocked, whatever, but he's got the moments. Like, why is he part of these things? Like the one, the fricking head butt he's right there. This moment is rent free in my head. I was waiting for you to say it. I was like, please say it or I'm going to.

[01:47:13] Um, and so basically all the way up until the end, uh, Frank is still hopeful that Dan will stay true, but of course he, uh, does not, does not stay true. Um, and Frank is evicted, uh, from the game. And, uh, just like that, again, there's basically no resistance left. Um, now from this point forward, the plan for Dan is take out Ian, Shane, and Joe. So that's it.

[01:47:43] Take out Ian, Shane, and Joe go to the end with Danielle and Jen. Beautiful position, right? Um, bit of a problem. Dan wins the, uh, the next HOH. Um, and it's a double eviction. He nominates, uh, Ian and Joe. Um, actually, you know what? Let's, uh, let's just give Frank his final moment as well. Frank evicted from the game.

[01:48:09] Um, again, never a week where he, he doesn't touch the block, uh, without, uh, being the HOH. Um, and he finally loses a competition, finally gets evicted from the game. Uh, a deep, deep run, uh, for the situation. Um, ultimately his legacy, I think is, uh, there's a few different legacies Frank leaves in the game. He's America's favorite player. He's a comp beast.

[01:48:36] He's one of the most bitter jury members of all time. Um, and then he comes back and, uh, touches women inappropriately. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Those are his legacies. And hey, congratulations to the guy. That's all I gotta say. Yeah. Um, so, uh, that's Frank. Um, Dan wins the double eviction veto. Or sorry, the double eviction, eviction HOH.

[01:49:05] Um, he nominates Ian and Joe. Again, convinces Ian, you're just a pawn. I did it to Memphis. Don't worry about it. Uh, Ian is worried, but afterward is gonna be like, yeah, totally chill. Uh, I'm still with Dan. Um, can I just say that in the moments that they're doing the renegades, like each, every single, not just one, all of the moments they're doing the handshake, the renegades handshake, it feels so incredibly manipulative. Every single time watching it, like, yes, I know the truth.

[01:49:34] I'm behind the curtain, whatever. But, like, it just makes me cringe so bad because Dan is so, so manipulative. Okay, another thing to, that's important to point out here. So, um, Brittany had a stronger hold on Ian than Dan did, for sure. Um, their relationship was genuine. Um, however, really the only reason Ian was ever against Dan was, was Brittany. Um, Brittany was sort of like the person that was like, you know, we can't trust Dan long term. Uh, like this guy.

[01:50:05] Um, but Dan had been working on a relationship with Ian all game long. And Brittany talks about this too, the way that Dan talks to people. I remember watching the feeds, um, and, uh, just like hours and hours. Dan was the only person that would do this. Hours and hours he would spend talking to Ian about Pokemon. And Dan doesn't know a thing about Pokemon. You can watch a video of Dan trying to name Pokemon. It's pretty funny.

[01:50:31] Uh, but Dan is asking Ian all kinds of questions about Pokemon. Uh, and Ian is just like, just talking his ear off about like, well, you know, I like this one. And, um, like just tons of conversation, uh, in a way that, you know, very few other people in the house even came close to.

[01:50:52] Um, and so when Brittany left, uh, and Dan was responsible and, and they kind of knew that Dan was responsible, but not to the extent that he was responsible because the whole Frank and Dan alliance was kept secret. So, uh, so Dan is able to immediately then go back to Ian and be like, yeah, sorry about Brittany. Like I did what I had to do, but like, I'm not against you. Right. And they make this like, let's make this a renegades thing.

[01:51:21] We'll act like we hate each other because of that whole situation. It's so valuable. I talk about this all the time. We're seeing a little bit of on, uh, on survivor here, but like the idea of, um, hiding the fact that you're in a duo with someone is so valuable because it can like really be effective against other players. We talked about that in big brother 10, but then on top of that, there's a secondary benefit to keeping your, uh, duo a secret with other people.

[01:51:45] Which is that, uh, you can have multiple duos, you have multiple fake duos where you're like, Hey, we're, we're the duo, but like, let's not tell anyone. Kind of reminds me of Memphis, like a little bit of Memphis's game in bigger, there's 22. Yeah. Yeah. Interestingly enough. Um, and so that's, he makes that deal with Ian and then yes, when he, he, but, but at the same time he is trying to get Ian out. He wants Ian gone. He is, is happy to take Ian out in this double eviction.

[01:52:15] If Ian does not win this veto, Ian is gone. Um, and Ian is nervous, wins the competition, but does not believe that Dan was actually trying to take him out. Uh, and so Dan is able to like maintain the facade that I didn't just take a shot at my, at my closest ally. Um, and so, uh, again, terrible luck for Dan that Ian wins this veto and Joe is sent out instead. Now Joe is not a bad person to send out here.

[01:52:41] Um, of course, uh, Dan also heavily considers taking the shot at Shane at this point. Um, because, uh, Shane is the next biggest threat after Ian. Um, but you know, having to pivot so quickly, um, just felt like a bridge too far. You had, um, you had, uh, uh, Danielle saying like, absolutely not. We're not taking out Shane, uh, at this point.

[01:53:06] Um, and then, you know, if, if Danielle goes off, uh, on Dan and that could blow things up with Ian and Joe is still in the game and Joe is still a wild card. He's not a threat, but he's still like the anti-Dan person. So taking out Joe here, a, an unfortunate compromise for Dan at this point. Um, not his ideal target, but it is what it is. He can take out Ian or Shane later.

[01:53:31] Except Ian and Shane specifically win the next two competitions, HOH and veto. So it is impossible for either of them to go out in the next week. Uh, but we'll talk about that very shortly before that. Uh, let's say goodbye to, uh, to Joe, uh, chef Joe. People liked his Turkey burgers, but that was mostly, that was pretty much it. These pictures are sending me.

[01:53:54] Um, but yeah, I, but yeah, before we move on, sorry, Joe, this isn't about you, but whoa, that double eviction veto. Was so exhilarating. That was so incredibly exhilarating. You wouldn't know, like if you were just popping in, whatever you would think Ian's fighting for his life. Like he knows that he's a target. You, that's what you would think. And also the crowd getting involved, the way that they scream. Oh my God.

[01:54:22] It just like gives me, I'm such a nerd. Okay. This is when I nerd a little bit, like I get goosebumps at it. I wish the show would let, wasn't there a stretch where they were like, don't cheer or whatever. At all. Like they need to bring that back because that is live TV and gold for me. This is like the maze puzzle thing. Um, that, uh, that just, you know, again, just specifically the one person that couldn't win out of the six people left in the game. Um, destroyed them too. Yeah.

[01:54:52] Like destroy them at it. So that's it for Joe. Uh, he, he goes, he goes away. Um, and then again, the next two targets, Ian or Shane, one of them needs to go. Dan would love to get to the end with Jen and Danielle. But the problem is Ian wins the HOH and Shane wins the veto. Uh, Ian winning HOH was not the end of the world. Uh, because Dan did a good job of convincing Ian that he was not trying to take him out in the double eviction.

[01:55:21] So Ian has no intention of going after Dan instead. The intention is to go after, uh, Shane. Um, you know, put Shane up on the block next to Jen. We send Shane out like that. That's this perfect except Shane then wins the veto. And so both of his targets are safe this week. And that puts Dan in, in, in the position where he has to evict one of the two people he wants in the final three, Danielle or Jen. And of course, at this point, it can't really realistically be Danielle. He can't rely on Jen to help him win competitions.

[01:55:51] And if he takes out Danielle, then, uh, Shane is going to be pissed, uh, and come right at him. So like he has to lose Jen here. And this is the biggest blow to Dan's game. Considering what we know about like the situation. Could he have beaten Jen? That's hard to say. Jen is the, his best chance of winning in a final two, uh, after, um, boogie leaves. But like, you know, it's still not guaranteed. Yeah.

[01:56:19] I think at this point, like a lot of people talk about jury management in this and like, we'll get there, of course. But like, I mean, I feel like we're getting there now. Like we've just been talking about jury management and, and, and really. Um, and just, I feel like he knew at this point, like, because people are like, and we'll get to like the jury. Um, or I'm sorry, the, the pre jury was talking during the finale and Janelle had said like, oh, he has played the best game ever.

[01:56:46] And he, it would be a travesty if he does not win this game. And like, we see that. And I agree with that. It's just a matter of like, like him even getting there after facing all of this adversity is insane. Um, but just the path to get there, like the formula wasn't the right one. Like he had the formula. He knew what the formula was. The path was just rocky and he survived the path, like the adversity to get there, but it wasn't the right formula.

[01:57:14] And then, which is that where the jury management comes in. And there just wasn't any because he could, he, like he said it himself at the end. Like he couldn't play in any other way besides this back against the wall, try to get out of it. So I don't know. I just, it kind of sucks as a Dan fan in the, at this point, because I don't know about, again, I was not watching live. You tell me how you felt in this moment. Did you feel like he could still win at this point?

[01:57:41] There was definitely, there's definitely hope that, uh, cause like the thing is that you never really know what's happening in the jury house. Um, so they're fighting a lot. Yeah. There's a lot of talk of like the pact that was made. We're not going to let a previous winner win this game. There was so much animosity toward the coaches. Um, and there was so much bitterness from Frank. Um, but, uh, but there were a couple of things. One is that we knew Brittany was being pretty fair.

[01:58:10] Um, and that Brittany might consider voting for Dan. Um, and that Brittany might have some influence over the jury. Um, and so because of that, there was definitely like some possibilities. Like Brittany, Ashley, Jen was, was vote that we thought Dan would probably have. Um, and then, you know, Ian or Danielle. Uh, and just like that, like the votes are there. Um, of course Shane wasn't out yet, but if, as long as like, if Dan is able to get Shane out without putting blood on his hands,

[01:58:36] uh, Shane might be a vote for Dan, uh, certainly against Ian. Um, like, and at the time too, like Ian was very like disliked by much of the jury. He'd betrayed Ashley. Um, he, Frank hated him. Uh, Joe hated him. Shane hated him. They all made fun of him. Like there were so many like people that would be, that you would assume would be anti Ian in most situations. The problem was that like Frank hated Dan even more.

[01:59:04] Shane came to hate Dan even more. Um, and so with those two, um, you know, and then with, with Frank came Ashley. Um, and, uh, and with both Frank and Shane came Joe. And then, you know, with all of them came Jen and it just kind of spiraled out of control from there. But there were still theoretically paths. Um, but there was definitely a lot of like impending disaster.

[01:59:32] Uh, like the, the thought process. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that is the argument that people make against him. Right. Like, well, he should have had X, Y, and Z lined up in a better way. The jury management. But so that's why, I don't know. I just wanted to comment on that because some people are like, like, what's the word I'm looking for? Um, I don't know the word. They're like against him being the best of the greatest player of all time.

[02:00:01] So I was just seeing it from like both, both perspectives, I guess. Yeah. And I mean, like, uh, usually with the, like the Dan versus will debate in particular, people will say like, oh, well, will would have won if he had gotten to the end of his season. Uh, and Dan, uh, would not have. Um, but, uh, like the thing of that is that like, if Dan had been playing on an all-star season, he would have won a jury vote.

[02:00:25] Like he, like the jury for big brother seven was the most willing to vote for a hardcore cutthroat player of like any jury in history. Uh, and the jury of big brother 14 is one of the most butthurt bitter juries in the history of the show. To the point where, when Dalton Ross did like the, uh, oral history of the BB funeral, they're still mad about it to this day. Like these aren't normal people.

[02:00:56] Hey, don't be talking about miss Jen. She left you. People have done. I don't think Jen's still mad about it. People have done so much worse than what Dan did in this season. Uh, and, and like, it's like, you know what I mean? Like, it's not like Dan is like the thing, especially cause Dan is somebody who did the same stuff on his original season with a different cast and one unanimously, the first unanimous winner and only unanimous winner for a long time. Um, uh, in the history of the show.

[02:01:24] Um, like, you know, we're not talking about somebody who's like, uh, like clearly the worst at jury management of all time. I think we're, what we're talking about is, uh, a particularly bitter jury, especially somebody like Frank who had spent the entire season hating Dan because of a twist saving him because of the coaches situation. Um, and he had good arguments to make against Dan because he was able to use his religion. He was able to use the fact that he was a coach and the animosity that people had toward the coaches.

[02:01:53] Um, like there, there's a, there are a lot of extenuating circumstances surrounding this. Certainly there are, again, I think the key things to talk about with Dan this season, um, are the Janelle vote. Um, and, uh, and, and then, you know, maybe it's not taking, but here's the thing. Even if he takes the shot at Shane during the double eviction, uh, Shane is still pissed at him.

[02:02:19] Um, so it's like, there's really like, there are very few things I think anybody could realistically say about Dan's game this season to say, uh, if you had changed this, if you had just made a better decision here, uh, you would have won. Uh, because it's like, what really? Like what? Yeah. Just like magically make the jury not be mad about losing the game. Like that's kind of the thing. Yeah.

[02:02:46] And some people will, will say like, well, you didn't need to do it in this way. You didn't need to play so hard. You didn't need to like needlessly, you know, lie or whatever they were saying. You know, it kind of reminds me of like what they said about Paul during BB 19, but, but Paul, like needlessly genuinely lied about things and like, was just, um, kind of rude about a lot of stuff.

[02:03:07] Um, but besides that, not talking about Paul, um, after Tyler lost big brother 20, Dan himself tweeted that has stuck with me. He said something like the style of like Machiavellian. I think that's how you can't, I can't say words. Um, style of play is dead because people juries don't want to reward that behavior, behavior, whatever you want to call it. Like hard gameplay, like don't care. I'll cut your throat gameplay.

[02:03:35] Um, and I think that it started with him. It started with him here in my opinion. See, I actually, I disagree with Dan on that. I remember that tweet and I disagreed at the time. Um, because I think the thing is that like, um, it's, it's, you can be Machiavellian, but, uh, but like there are different sort of positions that you can be in. So like, uh, for example, um, Chelsea lately, right?

[02:04:04] She was Machiavellian to some degree. Um, but she was able to do so in a very kind of clean way because her and, and, um, McKenzie won all the competitions. Uh, so like, you know, when you win all the competitions, you, you make some cuts here and there. Uh, and then like, who can really be mad because you won all the competitions. Dan had to make it through the season with an unprecedented, two separate unprecedented competition runs.

[02:04:31] Um, Frank from, uh, week five is safe, safe, safe, safe, finally evicted. Uh, uh, he is, he is immune for weeks at a time, hating Dan the whole time. From, uh, the double eviction, Ian is safe all the way up until the final four. Uh, he, he, he is, uh, safe during the double eviction, evicts Ashley.

[02:05:00] He then wins the bonus veto during Frank's HOH. He then wins the next HOH. He then wins the next double eviction veto. He then wins the next HOH. He is safe for five rounds, uh, before finally being vulnerable at the final four. Uh, where Dan now has to choose between Frank or sorry, between Shane or Ian. Um, and then Shane happens to, to win the safety when he, uh, needs it in that situation. Like, and Dan, Dan basically wins like a couple of these competitions.

[02:05:29] He wins the one veto to send Frank out the door and he wins the one HOH where he fails to get Ian out because Ian wins that veto. So Dan is doing this without the ability, without the, like the benefit of winning competitions, which we know now is like the meta for big brother. You just win all the competitions. If you can just win all the competitions, it's easy. Um, Dan didn't play that way. And that is the way where things are difficult.

[02:05:53] Tyler doesn't win BB seven, BB, uh, 20, quite frankly, I think because he's up next to somebody who won more competitions than him. Uh, like if Tyler was up against somebody who had won significantly fewer competitions than him in his lines, I think he wins that season. Um, I don't think that it had to do with like the way that he treated people as much as, uh, you know, it is made out to be that way. Certainly there are some votes that I think he lost because of that.

[02:06:19] Uh, but like competitions are, are, I, I, I did like a two part jury management, uh, podcast, uh, like a few years ago. Um, and like genuinely my conclusion is the most important part of jury management is winning competitions. People unfortunately respect power and the structures that power create.

[02:06:43] Uh, and when you have won a bunch of competitions, people just respect you more than if you work a different way, which is unfortunately like antithetical to, I think what makes big brother great. Uh, because kind of the entire structure of big brother, the entire point of big brother, the reason I think it succeeds is because especially in the early days, it presents a

[02:07:06] scenario where the Machiavellian, like not, uh, typical kind of like classical players are really successful. Your Danielle Reyes is your June's, um, like the, those players are able to sort of like subvert the typical, you know, big majority, uh, and succeed with the tools given to them. Um, and that what's, that's what makes them succeed, but then it makes them very unlikable

[02:07:34] to that majority because not only did they succeed, but they succeeded in the wrong way. Uh, like if everyone had just done it the right way, I would have succeeded because I'm at the top of my structure, but you did it a different way. You lied, you cheated, you manipulated. Um, and that's not fair because if you had played by my rules, I would have won. Um, and, uh, and so I think that's the biggest part of this. Yeah. And I hate that. You're right. That's my only conclusion.

[02:08:01] Like I want to throw a tantrum because you're right. Like that pisses me off. Not you being right. Like what you're right about, you know? And I think that's why we as a, I almost said society, we as a community for the most part, minus some people that are kind of annoying about it. We're so happy when Taylor won because she talked about this in her speech. We can have the same winners, the comp wins, everything. Um, obviously she went in a different way. I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say she was cutthroat or Machiavellian.

[02:08:31] She was a social player and got herself out of, um, a lot of adversity. It's a different type of player. But I think that's why we were so happy and a lot of people to this day discredit her win because they have that mindset that you just discussed basically. Exactly. Taylor's win completely broke the mold and she managed to do a thing that is entirely unique in the history of the show. And there are a lot of people because she didn't do it in the like classical accepted way.

[02:09:00] We'll say, nah, she's not that good of a winner. Um, which is, which is, I think, you know, I certainly, I can understand a discussion, a case being made in that direction, but people who just like auto dismiss her, I think is, is a testament to, um, you know, exactly what we're talking about. Like, uh, like the way that you see things can be so manipulated by the, the, the, the,

[02:09:28] the structure of what you deem to be normal, um, and who controls what you deem to be normal. Like the producers of the show, because the producers of the show make competitions that are easily won by athletic people. And then athletic people win a bunch of competitions and then go on to win the show more often. Um, then all of a sudden anybody who's not doing that is not as valuable, not as good of a player.

[02:09:52] Uh, and that's because the people in charge designed a system for certain people to succeed. And then when those people find themselves not succeeding as much because somebody managed to overcome the disadvantage they were at in the first place, they get shit on more because how dare you usurp the structure that was put in place for me to succeed. Yeah. I'm getting, I'm getting worked out. No, me too. You've got the right person on the podcast with you. Like I think about this all the time. And before we pivot too far away from what we were talking about, um, what does this mean

[02:10:22] that Raven and Matt were onto something during that jury, that jury round table? Does that mean they were on? This is not big baby. Were they with us? I'm scared. Listen, queen puppet master. Raven is always right. She might, she should replace me on this panel. I don't know.

[02:10:46] Uh, anyway, uh, Jen's pity gets evicted here. Brutal spot for her to, to evict, uh, to be evicted here. Like again, the, the stars lined up for exactly Ian and exactly Shane to win these two competitions. She's not being evicted in any other scenario. Um, and it's also made worse because like, again, she should have been a locked in vote for Dan was going to be a locked in vote for Dan in the final two.

[02:11:12] Uh, except she gets evicted now instead of later, uh, which gives her time to be swayed by the very bitter jury. Um, and, uh, ultimately does not end up voting for Dan. Um, so that is it for Jen. Uh, you know, I think a lot of people sort of like, didn't see her as like a super valuable player in the game, both in and outside of the house. Um, but, uh, but she really, I don't think deserves that, uh, bad of a reputation.

[02:11:39] I think people were just hoping that she'd be more like entertaining and dramatic. Um, and she was just like super chill, just like always super chill. And that was very boring television for people. Yeah. Yeah. Shout out to Jen. Thanks for the cameo girl. Yes, absolutely. She really, can I just say, she turned that around quick. Shout out to Jen from, from Mr. T. Uh, there we go.

[02:12:06] Um, so then Danielle wins the HOH. There we go. And, uh, and this is, again, this, this is kind of brutal because at this point, obviously Ian leaving was, was the priority, but now that they're about to head into the final three, worst case scenario for Dan is he goes to the final three with both Shane and Danielle, because now he's in a situation where Shane is the most likely winner of the final three HOH. And Shane for sure takes Danielle over him. It just doesn't make sense to take him.

[02:12:35] Um, so Shane has to go, but because of the, just the way the competitions have shaped out, he hasn't had a chance to take Shane, Shane out. Uh, and now Ian is also here. And so now he's forced to pivot to bring Ian to the final three if possible, which would be great, except Danielle wins the final four veto. And it's like, Ian, really? You win every single thing when I'm trying to take you out.

[02:13:04] And then when I finally need you to win an eight veto so you can take out Shane for me, you'll lose it. Because again, if Ian wins this and takes Shane out, totally different vibe in the jury. Shane goes to the jury more mad at Ian than Dan. And all of a sudden it's again, like a potentially open game, but no, no, uh, this one, Ian does not win. And instead Danielle wins this one.

[02:13:29] And, uh, and of course there's no way in hell that Danielle is going to evict Shane. So how can Dan possibly get Shane out? And then on a week where Danielle has won both the HOH and the veto, he's sitting on the block next to Ian. What can he possibly do? There's nothing to be done again. What I'm reading online is that like, well, here we go. It's locked.

[02:13:55] Final three, Shane, Danielle, and Dan, uh, for as much control as Dan has had, he is, uh, you know, this is not the ideal scenario. Both Ian and Dan, Danielle would take him to the final two, but man, all of a sudden Shane managed to sneak in what a competition outcome. Uh, but then Dan starts talking. He's talking to Danielle and up in the HOH bed. And it's like, Hey, I really don't want to be on the block.

[02:14:23] You know, I just, I just, I would love to not be on the block. You know what I mean? I just like, I feel like it's dangerous for me to be up there. You know, it's like, I'm Dan Giesling, you know, like they're going to want to send me home. You know, you're going to leave Shane with the vote. Like, why would he, why would he want to keep me? You know, like, uh, I feel like he's going to feel like threatened by this, you know, like I, like, I feel like I, it's not that I don't trust Shane.

[02:14:51] I just would feel more comfortable having the vote myself. Um, and, uh, you know, and, and Danielle's like, Dan, come on, Dan. Um, and she's like, I can't do that. He works on her for a long time. Um, and eventually gets her to like broach the topic with Shane, who of course says no.

[02:15:17] Um, but, uh, but Dan then gets in there too. And like, Shane feels comfortable saying no to Danielle, but when Dan's talking to him as well, it's like, come on, Shane. Like, I just, I just feel like, like, well, I just feel like it would be better if I was off the block. Like, it's not a big deal. Obviously we trust each other. Um, and Shane, you have to understand Shane was already like, he had already count.

[02:15:43] Not only had he already counted the money, he was already like counting the dividends of his investments on the money that he was about to make. Like this guy had already won the season in his head and it was 10 years later. And he was like reminiscing about how he won the season. Um, and he was just so confident and he, he really felt like, and this was, you know, again, to Dan's credit, he really felt like he could like have his cake and eat it too.

[02:16:11] Um, and that, uh, like to keep Dan happy and make, maybe like, maybe if I do this for Dan, like he'll be more likely to bring me to the end. If he happens to win the final situation, who knows? Um, you know, and so he, he gives, he gives, he very reluctantly gives the go ahead.

[02:16:33] And Ian for the third or fourth time in this game, it dead to rights this time, no competition, no saving from Mike boogie, no bonus veto. Uh, nothing can save him except for Dan Kiesling himself. And he walks into that final four eviction fully expecting that this is it, that he's done.

[02:16:59] He's I, I had a good run, you know, I was immune for five weeks in a row. I came close, but, uh, but here it is. I can't, I can't convince them to evict Dan over me. I don't have the chops. It's this is it. Um, and, uh, Danielle stands up and she decides to use the veto on Dan and Ian.

[02:17:23] When I tell you this, he is literally shook, literally cannot stop. What? What? What? He can't breathe. He's in shock. Uh, and he's not the only one very shortly because Dan comes off the block. Shane sits up there and Dan turns around and he says, yeah, sorry about that, Shane.

[02:17:55] Yeah. He, you know what? The way that he describes this, um, in that speech saying that his, he's covered, um, up to his hands and in blood or whatever he said, um, it could not ever and will never be more true for any player in the big brother house than in this moment for Dan. It's wow. Yeah. The way that the, the YouTube video for this moment, it's just titled biggest blind side ever.

[02:18:24] Cause I know this because it shows up on my like sidebar all the time, my algorithm all the time on YouTube. And it has like a million something like over a million views. It's incredible. I mean, I was in, um, I was in college at this time and I was, I was just like showing people clips of this. Uh, I, I, maybe I wasn't showing clips actually. Maybe I was, I was just telling them. I was just like doing a retail.

[02:18:51] I was like, okay, I know, I know this sounds really nerdy and trashy, but like, I'm telling you this show is incredible. This guy convinced, convinced the guy's girlfriend to save him and then turned around and evicted him. And people at the time were like, that's amazing. Oh my God. That's so cool. Uh, and it, and it got a bunch of people, uh, invested in watching the show. And so they, they tuned in for big brother 15. Oh, well, Hey, they didn't watch again. Um, next week. Yeah.

[02:19:22] It's just an incredible moment. I mean, when you look at like top strategic moments from the show, like I, I genuinely believe the funeral is the greatest moment in the history of reality television, let alone big brother. That's what I think. Um, but like in terms of showing somebody a clip, like a short snippet that is self-contained and easily explained where the funeral kind of needs a lot of setup. Yep. This is it.

[02:19:47] I mean, like there's very few strategic things you can show that are, that are so just entertaining and appealing to anybody that's into a Machiavellian style show. Uh, this is the kind of clip that will like put respect on big brother's name. Uh, uh, you know, this one or like the farting competition, I think is probably top two. Um, but, uh, you know, it's just an incredible moment.

[02:20:17] And again, a completely necessary one. This is again, the thing like, you know, when you talk about like unnecessary moves or different ways that other people have lost jury votes, it's been like, you know, you, you got personal in a way that wasn't necessary or like you, you know, you insulted me, you, uh, whatever. Like Dan was always super nice all the way through. Everything he did was like totally, you know, outside of a couple of like, uh, you know, like

[02:20:43] doing the double eviction, he was like this fricking kid, um, you know, like, you know, especially compared to most other reality players, like just nice guy. Uh, never made a single like comment about somebody that was like super unwarranted. That wasn't like in the heat of the moment. Um, and, uh, only ever was cutthroat as was necessary to his game, which is the situation. You obviously cannot go to the final three with Shane and Danielle together.

[02:21:10] Um, and the only way to make this happen was to, was to convince Danielle to keep you off the block so that you could take out Shane and, and, and, you know, he did it. Uh, and Shane walks out stunned. Um, Ian is stunned. Uh, and, uh, and Danielle is. That face. And then the background is just Ian. Like what, what, what?

[02:21:37] Like repeatedly as cinema cinematic, like that clip. You're right. It's the, it puts respect on the name of the show. I gathered my whole family to watch that clip. They didn't stop watching the show. I was dating someone, um, a few years back. He did not know anything about the show. Nothing showed him that clip. I'm sorry. No, he found the clip on his own, sent it to me and said, what the hell was that?

[02:22:04] And then, so I explained more about like, oh, this is the guy, this is him, you know, whatever. And he continued to watch the show and I think still does. I don't know, but I'm pretty sure, which is crazy. So it makes people fans. Yeah. I mean, it's truly like, uh, it was, this was game of Thrones before game of Thrones. Like season 14 had a red wedding. It had a purple wedding. Uh, like, uh, you know, and then, and then it ended in a similarly disappointing. Yeah.

[02:22:35] But, uh, you know, it, it was, it's just, it's incredible. And then especially I, I'm pretty sure, um, I'm remembering correctly the end of the episode before the episode even ends. Like it ends with like, let's eavesdrop on the house guests. Has Dan pulling Danielle into the room saying like, I had to do it that way. Like already working on flipping her back. And he does. And he does. And he does to the point where the very next episode, they're about to compete in part one

[02:23:04] of the final three HOH. And Dan Giesling has both Danielle and Ian throw part one to him. Mm-hmm. Part, the final HOH. Both of them throw it to him. Like people want to like, try to discredit it and stuff. Like, I don't want to sit here and shill the whole time. I'm a big Ian fan. Like I wasn't as disappointed as maybe you were at the end.

[02:23:30] I was still happy with the winner, but like, I, people want to discredit it and be like, well, the people that he played against, the people that he played against, they're dumb. No, they're not. I know Danielle's a lot of things, whatever, but she's not, she's not as bad as a lot of the Big Brother 16 cast. Okay. I'm just going to say that. Like, I don't know. I just don't think they were. And Ian, like, he's not stupid. We've seen this. Well, like, here's the thing.

[02:23:57] Like, how can somebody make a move, like throwing part one of the final three HOH to Dan Giesling and not be seen as dumb? You know what I mean? Like, those two things kind of coexist, right? Like, you can't be like, well, it's not impressive that this happened because, you know, they, because they did it. It's like, well, but it happened, you know, and it only ever happened for one dude.

[02:24:22] Like, you know, like maybe it's, maybe it's more so that like the fact that they did it makes them seem less impressive. Or you could say maybe it makes the person who made them do it a little more impressive. But, you know. Yeah. So both of them throw part one of the final three HOH. Again, Dan, similar to Big Brother 10 when he was still working with Memphis secretly the

[02:24:47] entire final week, trying to convince Jerry that they weren't together, spends the entire final week of Big Brother 14 just playing the hell out of Danielle and Ian, convincing them to get into arguments, like getting them to hate each other as much as possible. Because like, just again, like making the odds of them coming together and pulling like an Erica and Janelle on him so much lower.

[02:25:16] And they go, they go into the final three final like competitions, like fully, they're both taking Dan a thousand percent. They hate each other. They're never voting for either of the other one in the final. Like, cause now he can do like active jury management with them. Um, they're both going to head to the jury. They're both going to vote for Dan over the other person that sits next to them, that to him, regardless of what happens. Um, and, uh, and then, you know, uh, they get down to the final three part three, the final three HOH Ian wins it.

[02:25:46] Uh, this is still in the time where it was a pretty crap shooty. That final part, um, Ian wins it cuts Danielle, uh, and, um, and brings Dan to the final two. Um, now, uh, you know, there, there's a lot to, to talk about here. Um, Dan, uh, Ian versus Danielle, um, Ian still has a chance.

[02:26:11] Um, but it's not as easy as, uh, as Dan, um, because, uh, Ian versus Danielle, uh, still has Brittany. Um, and I think like a lot of Dan's, uh, the anger toward Dan kind of ran, uh, rubbed off on Danielle to some degree, but like Danielle has Shane. Um, I think she has Dan. Um, and, uh, and then, you know, things get a little tricky. Like Jen and Joe could kind of go either way.

[02:26:42] Frank could still theoretically go like Frank was still pretty upset with Ian. Um, so it actually is not a guarantee I think by any means. So it's, it is theoretically the correct decision for Ian to, uh, to take Dan over Danielle. Um, but of course, like he is not aware of the extent to which the jury is this bitter. He knew that the jury was mad about the coaches thing. Um, and he knew that they'd be mad, like Shane and for, for example, might be mad at Dan about

[02:27:11] the, the, the Shane situation. Um, but, uh, but this is also the guy that won a season unanimously when a guy who was going to take him Memphis thought that the jury would be bitter against him. So it's pretty big risk to take. Um, and, uh, we also know that Dan had been planning to take Ian, uh, over Danielle, uh, that if he had won this final three HOH, he had planned to, uh, to make a speech about

[02:27:37] how, um, you know, like in a horror movie, you know, you rip off the mask and, you know, here I am. Um, and, uh, confident, I think that he could, he could still retain Danielle's vote, uh, which I'm sure he would have. Um, so, uh, and, and, and the logic behind that again, is that like, um, you know, if Dan loses to, um, uh, to Ian, then he loses to both Ian and Danielle.

[02:28:03] Um, because Ian is, Ian was more hated than Danielle was. So, uh, if like the, uh, the logic is that like, if the likes of Frank and Joe and Shane, who all hated Ian at various points in the season, all thought that they should vote for Ian over Dan, then, then they would all vote for Danielle over Dan also. Um, so, uh, so I, I think that a lot, like a lot of people would say like, oh, that's

[02:28:34] ostensibly a mistake because we know that Dan loses to Ian, but Dan also loses to Danielle. And I do think the logic is sound that like, um, he, he might've picked up Brittany's vote, but it's not enough. Uh, and the, the logic of like, well, if I lose to him, then I definitely lose to her. I think it's also true. Um, but that's, uh, those are the various scenarios, but Danielle gets voted out here. Um, and, uh, what a, what a run for, uh, Danielle Murphy. Yeah. Hey, I mean, pop off girl.

[02:29:04] That's what I got to say. I don't know. I am going to be honest. I'm, I forgot to say this about Shane. I'm surprised that a lot of the people from BB 14 have not been asked, asked back before. I'm actually very surprised about Shane. I could see Danielle. I feel like I've heard her rumored before, but I could see it. I mean, I want to see people from my favorite seasons. I don't care who it, who it is. I don't not necessarily a big fan of either of those two, but I'm quite surprised. Yeah.

[02:29:33] I mean, she, for what it's worth, I think has helped contribute to some of the most iconic moments in the history of the show. And like, uh, that alone I think is worth an invite back. Um, I know that like, yeah, she wasn't the most, uh, loved person, uh, from the audience perspective. Um, but, uh, she was definitely entertaining all the way through and really went through it also. Like, uh, I've definitely heard this sentiment before of like, I would feel a little bad for

[02:30:03] Danielle after everything. Uh, Dan, Dan really put her through the ringer this season. Can you imagine what three months of that does to your brain? Like, are you talking to a friend just talking to you? Are you, are you being like real with me? I don't know. Like that's scary. That's scary to think about. Yeah. I mean, I think we've seen the results of that for Brittany and future seasons of shows. Oh, well, yeah, we have famously. Um, of course that brings Ian and Dan to the final two.

[02:30:32] Uh, another thing to talk about, of course, for season 14 is that unlike season 10, the jury questioning segment is live, which means it's also basically worthless. Uh, as opposed to season 10, when Dan was able to talk to the jury for hours, um, he was instead talking to a jury for about like five to 10 minutes and they were reading off of cue cards, uh, for their questions. And, um, you know, ultimately that leads to quite the lackluster, uh, performance in

[02:31:02] the final two jury questioning and, uh, and ultimately a six to one loss as Ian wins big brother 14. I would just like to say, I know I just said, I'm shocked that Shane was not invited back. Shane pissed me off this whole finale. Little things he was doing were so annoying to me, like getting his cue card. Oh, why don't I have a cue card or whatever? He was like, why do I have this piece of paper? Ooh. Okay.

[02:31:31] Like making like a whole spectacle of himself. Like we get it, get your 15 minutes. And then when everyone's voting, like, like she's pulling the keys out and you can just look right in the back and he's looking at, she, I think she was playing Joe's vote out and he looks to him like, you better have voted for like whatever that pissed me off. I now I've, I've had this theory in the past. And I honestly think that like, based on things I've heard from players and now most recently

[02:31:59] Brittany, I think the production genuinely was like, screw these people. Like, I think the production was like a person like Shane absolutely would have been a favorite of production. I think that Frank was immune to it because he was such a big character and they loved him so much. But like, I think somebody like, like Shane was maybe more on the bubble. I think absolutely was hurt from how bitter he was about this. And they were like, we don't want this guy back.

[02:32:27] Like he's, if he's going to be this petulant, like, uh, like he's just going to bring the show down. Um, and, uh, I really do think that like a bunch of people from season 14, uh, have, were harmed by their, their jury, uh, sort of performance. Yeah. I guess when you put it that way. Yeah. And to be honest with you, I already forgot that Shane was asking that Frank came back because I would like to forget it. So there's that.

[02:32:55] Um, but yeah, no, the, the finale was frustrating in on many aspects, but like, I feel like a misconception people have is like, if you felt like Dan should have won 14, which I still do, I, that they think that you don't like Ian and he shouldn't have won and whatever. I don't feel that way. Like, I'm really actually happy that he had a great story. I liked his run and I think that he is the rightful winner. He won. He should have won. I mean, that's the thing.

[02:33:23] Like, uh, I love Ian. Um, like I've, uh, hung out with him. I've talked to him a bunch of times. Uh, he did the Taron show with me. He was on the podcast for a long time. Um, like I, it's, it's one of those things. Um, it's, it's sort of like the, uh, it's sort of like the, the Rachel Riley situation where we talked about last week where it's like, I thought the outcome of that season was kind of lame.

[02:33:51] Um, you know, that season because of production interference. Uh, but I'm so happy personally that Rachel won the season. Um, because I, I love Rachel now. Um, and at the time I, I, this wasn't even a situation where I was like, where I didn't like Ian and then came to like, I loved Ian. Uh, I was like, I'm like, I'm so happy. This is okay. This is a little bit mean to Danielle, but I was like, I'm so happy that it was Ian and not Danielle.

[02:34:20] Um, at the time I was, I just liked Ian a lot more. Um, but like, uh, I, I really loved Ian and I, I still do. And I, um, I'm really happy that like, that he won a season, but like, I think for, for the season as a, as a product of entertainment and for the show and its history, uh, it's, it's frustrating that the outcome was what it was, uh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

[02:34:47] And it gave people leeway in a way to be like, no, he's not the goat because this, and like everyone is entitled to their opinions and stuff, but my opinion's right. So. Hmm. Um, yes. Uh, so that's it. That's the, that's the season, season 14. Uh, what a season. Back to the show after 13, I was pretty bummed out on it.

[02:35:13] Um, and it was once again, you know, just like after big brother nine, it was Dan Giesling that, you know, kind of dragged me just when I thought I was out, they, they dragged me back in. Um, and, uh, and it was just, there's so many incredible moments. I really think that like, I think that it was an underrated season for a long time because sort of like 12, like because of its slower part and the ending, a lot of people were like, ah, it was not a great season.

[02:35:41] Um, but I think that like there was, it eventually reached a point of like critical, like a critical threshold of like, you know what? But it's a pretty great season. Um, I think we did, I think there was like, we did like a couple of season rankings and I think it jumped from like the first one we did to the second one in terms of how the audience responded. And I think that's primarily because like, you just have to recognize that like this one

[02:36:07] season has multiple all time clippable, like all time moments from the show. Uh, and that's, that's a wild thing for one season to have. And I think that season 10 is as a whole, a better product. Um, but season 14 has the highest highs in the show's history. Uh, and so like, you know, it's, it's definitely an incredible season and it's this season, like

[02:36:34] without this season, without season 10 and without season 14, I'm not here. I don't talk. I'm not talking about this show right now. I have a completely different career. Like, uh, like this one drew me in and kept me in through big brother 15. Like, uh, like I was never going to leave big brother after watching the funeral, after watching Shane's eviction. Like I was just like, if this is what this show is capable of, I have to be here for it every time. Cause I'm, I don't want to ever miss something like that. Yeah.

[02:37:03] I love that you said that because again, I have the same story just in a different way, kind of backwards, I suppose, because I did not, I wasn't there live. I saw it after it was already done and I went backwards and I watched it. I was curious. What is the concept of this show? Who has played it? Who's the best player, whatever Google. And that's the clips that I saw. I watched a full season and that's what kept me here too. In the sense that I kept going backwards and staying on for the live seasons. So yeah, I would say I have the same story.

[02:37:33] And if there's anyone to anyone listening, you're watching, like if you have anyone in your life that you want to like convince them, this is a great show. That's not just about like farting and whatever, um, show them these clips and see what they say. You'll be surprised. All right. Lavina. Who's on the poster? Well, okay. Give me, I mean, come on now. It's gotta be, well, actually. Okay. No, actually, no. Let me, let me be firm.

[02:38:03] Uh, Dan is number one. Mm-hmm. Sorry. Like to Ian, Ian, number two. And I'm going to say Brittany. Some people might say Frank for the third, but I'm going to hold and say Brittany. I think, I think Dan and Ian one and two is one of the most locked in the history of the posters that we've done. Um, number three is the tricky one. Yep. Uh, I think you have a couple of options. I think Brittany prime option. Um, I think Frank theoretically an option.

[02:38:33] Uh, although you don't have to, um, Danielle, I think, uh, is definitely a solid option here. Um, and then, uh, of course, Gen City. Well, we've got it. She's the queen of this podcast episode. So yeah. Um, and then yes, uh, as being pointed out in the chat right now, uh, Jodi. That's right. I know that's right. Bring her back. See, that's what I mean.

[02:39:02] Don't bring, don't ignore what I said about Shane and Danielle. Bring back Jodi in a very real aspect. Um, so, uh, so yeah, I mean, I, I think there's options here, uh, and I'm curious to see what, uh, what the audience decides. It's currently live, uh, at Rob's website.com slash BB retrospective. If you want to take the survey and, uh, give your thoughts on who should be on the poster

[02:39:27] or big brother 14 and, uh, Lavina, I have a surprise for you. Oh my God. Is the poster. Okay. Yes. The girlies. I love Danielle's black hair. Here's the thing about giving, about putting Frank, uh, as the third spot for BB 14. Do you really want to follow up the all women poster of BB 13 with an all male poster for BB 14? Is that really what you want to do? It's gotta be a Brittany. Our audience is voting Brittany.

[02:39:57] Come on. We all know the answer. Friend of the pod. Friend of the pod. Uh, for those listening, this is the, uh, we, we got the BB 13 poster. And, uh, Rachel, Danielle, and Jordan are on the poster in that order. Um, all right. That's, that's it. This, I knew this would be a long one.

[02:40:19] It's, uh, uh, so I couldn't think of a better way to spend three hours on my birthday than, uh, talking about big brother 14. So, uh, here we go. Um, anything else, Lavina? No, that's all I got. I, Hey, talked for two and a half hours about it and I'm thrilled. I'm very happy.

[02:40:43] Well, make sure you tune in next week when I will be joined by Chappelle to talk about big brother 15. So, uh, I'm tuned in. What a season to talk about. Weirdly, a lot of people's entry point for big brother is big brother 15. I, so many people have said that. Yeah. Um, and so, uh, there's certainly a lot to talk about with that one. Uh, we'll, we'll get through it.

[02:41:13] Um, in the meantime, find me over on Twitch and YouTube streaming, watching survivor episodes, talking about shows. I watched this, uh, new Netflix show that said is like in the Netflix version of the traders called million dollar secret. Um, that I thought was interesting. Uh, and, uh, and, you know, just doing fun stuff over there like that also covering jet lag. Um, I believe there's a clip going around of me doing some limbo.

[02:41:41] Uh, so if you want to see that kind of stuff, check out our jet lag coverage. Um, and, uh, you know, all, all that good stuff. That's that's anything else to plug. Lavina. No, it's my off season. It's my off season. I mean, well, technically I'm still doing this stuff for the pod. Um, the videos, the social media, all that fun stuff, but yeah, I'm just excited to get back into big brother soon. I'm getting the itch. So yes. All right. Well, that is what we have for you then today.

[02:42:09] Thank you all so much for joining us here, talking about big brother 14. And I will see all of you next time.