Big Brother 11: A Weekly Big Brother Season Retrospective

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[00:00:47] And welcome back to the Big Brother Retrospective Podcast here on RHAP. I'm your host, Tern Armstrong. And today, this week, we will be talking about Big Brother 11. With me to talk about Big Brother 11 is Maggie. How you doing, Maggie? Hi, Taryn. Hi, everybody. I'm great because we're talking Big Brother again. This is the best.

[00:01:11] It's been a drought and I'm really happy to be here to talk about my favorite show ever. So, yes, I can't wait. All right. Well, we are almost 10 years in now in the Big Brother retrospective. We are in 2009. We have passed the year of Big Brother that was, you know, Big Brother 9 and 10. That triple action Big Brother 8, 9, 10 right in a row.

[00:01:40] So, we have a full year off and in comes Big Brother 11. Off the heels of Big Brother 10, which was so lauded that such, so much of the audience sort of came to it over the course of the season. There were really, there were very few people that had any qualms with the season. There was a lot of goodwill, I think, toward Big Brother coming into Big Brother 11.

[00:02:08] And, and I guess before we go too far into that, just one more thing about Big Brother 10. Again, we have the poster from last week. The poster. Voted on by the audience for Big Brother 10. Maggie, do you have a prediction? Who do you think is on the Big Brother 10 poster and in what order? Well, I do feel like there will be this guy, you might have remembered him from the season. His name was Dan.

[00:02:39] Are you thinking Brian? You think Brian? No, I think Dan. Oh, his friend. Oh, his friend. Yeah. The teacher guy. Yeah. Yeah. I do think he'll probably make it on. I'm going to say, I'm going to say Keisha. Mm-hmm. And you know my favorite Big Brother player of all time is on Big Brother 10.

[00:03:06] So in my heart, it's the one and only Rennie. Well. But I don't know that that is who it will be. I am not. I'm not. Listen, I'm going to need you to commit, Maggie. Are you in or are you out? I'm in. I'm in, baby. Let's do it. You are correct. Shut up! I love you all. I love you all. Oh, this is why.

[00:03:36] This is why the RHAP listeners are elite. Perfect taste. No notes. No notes. It is exactly as predicted. Dan number one, Keisha number two, Rennie number three on the poster for Big Brother 10. It's a pretty good one. God, Rennie and that wig and that little flower. I love her so much. I had the amazing opportunity to be in the same room as her once and she didn't disappoint.

[00:04:06] She came in at the end of a Big Brother premiere party in New York and I think literally like they were ushering us out of the party. They were like, everybody go home. And she walked in and was like, where's the party? And I was like, this is why you are number one always. Well, in this poster, she's number three, but she is on the poster. So that is the Big Brother 10 poster.

[00:04:32] And that is the season that we are coming out of in 2009 as we start Big Brother 11. Now, again, a lot of goodwill coming into Big Brother 11, but also maybe a sense that like and maybe this wasn't super talked about at the time, but it may be a sense of like, did they know what they did to make season 10 or did season 10 kind of happen to them? You know, production.

[00:04:59] Are they going to be able to continue that success or are they going to kind of, you know, revert back to the Big Brother nine, Big Brother eight of it all? And the answer to that was, I think, largely. Yeah, yeah, we're probably going to go back to what we were doing before. Yeah, I mean, I think that honestly, a lot of the issues with this season, like, of course you have.

[00:05:26] I mean, and I say issues like Big Brother 11, if you're a survivor fan. I mean, I was on the Gabon survivor podcast. I think that you call me in as a pitch hitter for these types of seasons. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is really giving strong Gabon energy where the strategy quite low, the anger and toxicity quite high.

[00:05:50] And I will. The one thing I will say about BB 11 in comparison to other BB seasons that people really, really hate is I do feel like there's this sort of air of like these people really, really, really hate each other. But there's this air of like lightness from the audience perspective a little bit about like these people are such fools. Like there's like a lot of laughing at them, I will say.

[00:06:17] And I this could totally be just because I wasn't around watching feeds at this time. I was not watching Big Brother. My first season was BB 13. So I may perhaps I this is now like me as somebody who didn't watch it live looking back and listening to the way people talk about this season. But maybe just because I wasn't steeped in the community at that time, like when I remember BB 19, I don't remember like everybody laughing at them.

[00:06:46] I remember everybody being like this sucks. And I feel like with BB 11, people focus a lot on the just really ridiculous moments from this season, because there are a lot like there's a lot to literally laugh at these people about. I think it kind of goes underreported because Big Brother 10 interrupts this stream that Big Brother 11 really does fit very well into the mold of Big Brother 8 and 9.

[00:07:16] They all have similar vibes, I would say. Yeah. Very, very messy. An edit that is not very honest, not very representative of the reality that was happening. And, you know, like large, impactful twists that are interfering with things.

[00:07:38] You know, I think you could very, very easily call the the first four seasons that Grodner is the head of as sort of like all in the same vein except for 10, which just kind of was its own anomaly. Yeah, like lightning in a bottle. Yes. And if you remove that, then they really fit together.

[00:07:59] But you don't think of Big Brother 11, I think, in the same vein that you do Big Brother 8 and 9 because it does have that separation and it's kind of surrounded by Big Brother 10 and then Big Brother 12, which certainly has its own mess, but also is very well known for its strategy. So, so that's, I think, certainly something to point out about Big Brother 11 coming in. Can I say a fun fact about BB 11 that I don't think a lot of people probably know?

[00:08:27] And as Dan was supposed to be on BB 9, Matt Hoffman was actually originally cast for BB 11. And he had to, he had to leave because they extended the season by a week and it was the week he was going to be getting married to his very sick wife, as we were going to find out.

[00:08:45] But he had, they had to extend the season so he had to pull out and I sometimes think about that because, you know, Dan was this really strong strategic player in a cast of big characters. And I think that the thing that like 8 through 11 and honestly, like going into 12 with like the Brendan, Rachel, Brittany of it all there, it was really, really character based this, the casting process.

[00:09:11] And I think like, as Dan was plopped into the season with a bunch of jokers around him all playing, I sometimes wonder if somebody like Matt, who was able to do the brigade, like if it, if he was plopped in there, what BB 11 might've looked like, you know, some, just something to think about that. There is, I think he said that he thought maybe he would have been on the brains click because of the Mensa thing.

[00:09:37] That probably tracks. I mean, he certainly could have fit into the, what do they call it? The, like the outsiders or offbeat. Yeah. But, but yeah, his whole shtick was the Mensa stuff. So it would make sense. Yeah. I'm trying to think of then who, because he certainly comes in with all kinds of ideas about how to play the game, how to break the game.

[00:09:59] Um, and he falls right into a group of guys in season 12 that like makes it very, uh, a very smooth transition into that. But in big brother 11, you know, maybe he, maybe he clicks with, I don't know. Does he work? I think the big question is, can he work with Jesse? Uh, if he does, then they probably even more just run that table.

[00:10:23] Yeah. I mean, who literally, who knows? Um, but it just, I, I always think of like, that's a fun, what if, um, also because I think that a lot of these seasons, cause they're so character based, these people who actually like really knew what they were doing versus there were lots of recruits that were on these seasons, you know, who had seen maybe one or two seasons in sequester.

[00:10:46] These people who know what they're doing can kind of run circles around them. As we see with Jesse on 11, when he comes in, he really runs circles until the coup de Jeff pulls them out of the game. And from there things just. Yeah. So, uh, big brother 11. Oh, that's not big brother 11. This is, this is hold on. This is big brother 11. Um, here's the cast. If you're watching along, uh,

[00:11:16] of course this is a cast that includes Jesse, uh, the, uh, Mr. Pectacular. However, he was not a guaranteed member of this cast. Although if you, uh, account for the competition that they had to compete to, uh, to, you know, not that they can, that the people competed in order to determine which person joined the cast, you might say that he was almost guaranteed to join this cast.

[00:11:39] Uh, but there were some alternatives. Um, there were a couple of people I'd actually, I don't think I have their faces, but, uh, but one Brian Hart from big brother 10 was an option. Um, when, when, when watching as a, I, can I keep saying kid? Probably. I was what? 17 now, uh, in 2009. No, you got to say when I was watching as a young man, cause a young, young adult.

[00:12:15] Guys, we're in for a treat tonight. The vibes are weird. It's BB 11, you know? Uh, as a, as a teen, as a teen boy, uh, I very much was, uh, in favor of Brian Hart joining the cast. I really thought that would be the most amount of fun. And, and I still must wonder what would have happened if, if Brian had been in the cast. Brian was my guy.

[00:12:38] My number two pick, uh, was Jessica, um, from season eight. Uh, I was a fan of hers. Uh, uh, and then, um, uh, you know, between cowboy and Jesse Goddard's, I was kind of like, could go either way. I mean, I'm going to be honest. I didn't watch this season until I had watched it.

[00:13:01] So it was after I had watched cowboy in his star turn on the MTV show catfish. So, um, um, I was a little sad cowboy didn't end up in the house just because, you know, he's one of those people who you're like, is this a real person? How did you find him? But I do suppose Mr. Pectacular is one of those people as well, because I often find myself watching him on my television being like, is this a real person? How did they find him? And yet there he is with a lot to say.

[00:13:31] And, and, and, and I think to be fair to Jesse, I think I, I have come around on this. I, I ultimately think that of those four players, he probably, I would say almost definitely is the most entertaining reality show contestant, uh, of that bunch. And quite frankly, is a very entertaining reality show contestant period. Uh, he, uh, he was very entertaining on 10. Um, he is, is, I would say this is probably

[00:13:58] his least entertaining season because he's very focused on winning. Well, he wants to win. Yeah. He was on, I believe this past season of house of villains and did very well. No spoilers in the comments. I'm still making my way to it, please. But yes, I think I've heard good things about his entertainment value. And yeah. And he's come back to big brother for years for like little weird fills. He was on BB 12 as a Pandora's box twist. He was on BB 20 as like the pump it up peanut guy or

[00:14:28] something like Casey was running around the house in a peanut costume. Sometimes I know I say things about big brother and I'm like so embarrassed that I just have these facts off the top of my head. I'm like, what's wrong with me? The brain space that could be filled with something much more anyways. Um, but he, and honestly, I will say like, if you were disappointed for him to come into the house, he really proves himself right away. Like he's a, he's the best player on the season by far.

[00:14:57] He really knows what he's doing. And it is giving a bit of Paul in BB 19 vibes where it's like, when you bring back one attorney, everybody gets real excited and rallies around them. And we saw when he was coup de jeu out of the house, the way everybody acted, you know, so beloved, he sort of became like a deity to them in there. And, um, but I, I do think that he was the right addition to the cast in my opinion. And, and it did, this is, so this is the first time

[00:15:26] that they've brought back a player, uh, as just like a solo, you know, one returning player is coming back. Uh, this has been done on survivor at this point. I think actually, hold on. I have they done, I don't think they had done it on. They've never brought back just one. They bring back like two. Well, um, Bruce probably counts, right? Well, but on survivor. Yes. Like in this era,

[00:15:54] yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. Guatemala, they brought back Stephanie and Bobby John. Stephanie and Bobby John is probably the first instance of this sort of thing happening. Um, but, uh, but as a solo, it did not happen, but, but it is similar enough from survivor. Uh, what we've learned from survive, both survivor and big brother, uh, at this point is that if you do this, the person you bring back is

[00:16:20] very likely to make it to the end of the game. Uh, however, uh, it did not happen in the first instance of big brother, uh, for, for very good reasons that we will talk about, but this really is a season of like massive twists. This is the first one. And this is a twist that's going to end up dominating the show, uh, and, and many future seasons. Uh, and, uh, and basically it took a

[00:16:47] different massive unfair twist in order to undo the massive unfair twist that existed in the first place, uh, which was Jesse coming back anyway. And, and very much this, the way that Jesse enters the game mirrors big brother 19 in the sense that like, it really does feel like it was always going to be Jesse because they, uh, they are divided. The house guests are divided into four clicks.

[00:17:11] It's the athletes, the off beats, the popular, uh, kids and the brains, the brainiacs or whatever. Um, and, uh, then they had them compete in a physical competition. Where they're hung as though they're getting wedgies in a toilet. And, you know, I just have to say,

[00:17:36] be for real, be so for real big brother. Are you, why, what are we doing? What are we doing here? Come on. This is, it's like really as embarrassing as that season 25 opener where they had to kick themselves in the butt. I was, I'm like, come on, these people are adults. And this, I mean, this, this might be one of, I mean, they've done, they've done stuff that has been embarrassing before, like all the way back to like big brother three with like Jerry's,

[00:18:06] you know, bathing suit filled with goop, uh, you know, stuff like that. But that was sort of like trying to make it feel a little more organic. Whereas this one is sort of like production sanctioned goofiness. Uh, and this whole season feels very, very goofy and they've dabbled in this again, ever since Grodner took over, uh, starting in season eight, they have the unitard.

[00:18:30] Um, and in this season, they're going to really up their game with the banana suit, uh, the wedgie competitions, uh, the have nots like there's all the, the show gets distinctly goofier in season 11 for sure. Yes. And it's so funny, the banana suit, just before we move on from that, what's so funny is that like, you always remember Casey and the banana suit. He did not like that banana suit. He was really

[00:18:59] upset to have gotten that banana. Like he was embarrassed. He was not a very good sport about it. He obviously wasn't as bad a sport as Michelle was, but like, I mean, they brought him back as Otev, I think the next season, like, you know what I mean? And he only because of the banana suit, but he was not happy with that. If I, if my memory serves me, uh, so ultimately Jesse joins the game

[00:19:25] and, uh, and the click thing is like not super relevant to sort of the structure of things. Um, I actually disagree. I think that the click thing is pretty relevant to the structure of things only because there's no way Jeff would have made it past the pre-jury phase. If not for the clicks, Jeff would have been the immediate social pariah out of here, you know, but because of the safety

[00:19:53] that came with the athletes click winning power, Jeff was spared. And I also think that like the big story, Jordan is our eventual winner and, um, the big storyline, her big storyline of the season is her relationship with Jeff. And that was able to blossom because of Jeff's weeks of safety during that pre-jury that was loaned to them via the twist. Which also like, if you think about it,

[00:20:20] it's almost like it was lab grown to create the ultimate fan favorite, right? Like somebody who was an outcast on the bottom, but couldn't be evicted. So stayed long enough for the audience to really get behind them. Then also had a showmance from like, you know, uh, across the divide, like a Romeo and Juliet. Okay. But we're going to say across the divide with someone from the popular click. Okay.

[00:20:50] Jordan wasn't in the offbeat. That makes them, that makes them even more likable because what people really want to see is not actual like off beats getting to an outcast getting together, but really pretty popular people who seem like they're outcasts and underdogs, uh, get together. Um, and so, uh, I mean, you know, Romeo and Juliet, did you see that movie? The latest movie there, they're very hot. You know what I mean? Yeah. And also though, I will say like Jordan definitely

[00:21:19] like in the popular click, but Jordan is a quirky little gal. I love, I love her little quirks when she's like, I would be a squirrel. Like that's her, that's her animal she wants to be. You know, like she's really funny and quirky and in the season. And I totally understand her fan favorite, like Jordan specifically is fan favorite of it. She, she gives a lot of really good sound bites for the, for those casuals to just eat up.

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[00:22:48] So basically what happens here early on is that Jesse wins this first HOH. He's a returning player. He also is the first winner of the first of the first winner of the HOH and that gives him immense power. He is going to very quickly sort of build a group of people to surround himself with, you know, and, and I say very quickly, but like ultimately it's a lot of the people that were

[00:23:17] not initially with him end up sort of like coming around. He, he amasses power very quickly.

[00:23:23] Um, and, uh, and he nominates, uh, Shima and Lydia, uh, for eviction. Uh, there's plenty to, uh, to talk about, um, with, with really both of them. Um, but, uh, Shima and Lydia are the initial nominees. Um, but, uh, not, not the first boot, either of them. Um, and that's because, uh, Russell, who is another, uh, interesting character, uh, will win this veto. Um,

[00:23:53] I, I have to say out of everybody on this season, Russell is wild. Like everybody else is also very wild, but like when I actually really stopped to think about it and look back, I was like, what was going on with Russell? You know, what do you think, Taryn? What was going on with Russell?

[00:24:18] You know, I, I, I feel like he was just like, uh, you know, he's a very, well, what's interesting is that he comes off as a very sort of like alpha, like kind of guy. Um, and, and he sort of carries himself like that, but he also had like a different side to him. That was, uh, like, I guess here's the thing in comparison to say somebody like Jeff Russell comes off as like a lot more progressive.

[00:24:49] Oh, of course, because of course, but in the house, in the edited show that we watched, it's like,

[00:25:01] it's like when they're fighting, but when Russell and Jeff are fighting and Jeff is just running on the treadmill and he starts screaming at him about technotronics seemingly out of nowhere. You're like, I love the spirit, but what is in the content? Let's talk about the real content here. You know?

[00:25:24] Yeah. Um, and I think the thing too, is that like Russell was kind of there. It almost feels like Russell was their answer to Jesse from the previous season. Like Russell was the new Jesse, but then they brought on Jesse also. And there were there. It felt odd. I think to have them both on the same season. And, and, and really Jesse ends up toning himself down. Uh, and, and Russell is sort of the Jesse of big brother 11.

[00:25:52] Um, so, uh, Russell is going to use the veto on Lydia, which leaves, uh, uh, Kima and, uh, Shima and, uh, and Ben Brayden on the block. Brayden is going to be the replacement nominee. Brayden, the OG horrible surfer dude to go home first created the archetype.

[00:26:15] This, this really was, uh, again, this is, this definitely feels like there's like a little mini era of eight to nine, uh, or sorry, eight to 10. Uh, but even then those feel sort of disparate and you should probably include 11, but 11 has so many things that are key to the next sort of, you know, five to eight years of big brother, uh, between the costume curse, the model curse. Uh, a lot of things that people end up talking about for a while. Um, but, uh, but Brayden, uh, sucks.

[00:26:44] Um, look at his Zoolander face, but he's really trying to get Zoolander. No, listen, listen, people can get Zoolander if they want. Why is he wearing two watches? I did just notice that, uh, it looks like one of them is backwards. Gosh, he's such a loser. I don't know. He is such a fricking loser.

[00:27:08] If for those of you who don't really know, um, they, in the edited show, they kind of show everything that he did, but not really. Cause they still have to protect Jeff and Jordan who are defending him, but he says like horrifically racist stuff against Lydia and Shima and just like owns it. Like isn't unapologetic about it. It's disgusting.

[00:27:30] Yeah. Um, he also, uh, had some homophobic things to say to Kevin. I think he threw water in his face. Um, and, uh, and so this is sort of the big storyline of, of week one is that like things are just exploding everywhere.

[00:27:47] Like Jesse, who was, and, and season 10 was a messy season. It was a dramatic season. Jesse was one of the biggest characters on that season. All of a sudden Jesse's on big brother 11 and the, the, the whole house is outperforming him with drama. Uh, it's like, this is truly another level, uh, to the point where it's not very fun. Uh, in fact, it's, it's, it's very unfun. Uh, I would say for the majority of it.

[00:28:13] Um, but the edit is doing its best to try to make it seem as fun as possible, which includes, uh, while they do air, uh, one of the segments where Brayden is saying, uh, slurs to people. Uh, they do sort of cut out those slurs and they then sort of edit it in a way that makes it seem like, uh, that like, Hey, Oh, Lydia's overreacting to what he thinks.

[00:28:39] All he said was, uh, you know, like the B word or something, um, because they didn't, didn't give enough context to let the audience know that he said much more than that. And I think like one of Lydia's iconic quotes from this season is her when she's yelling at Brayden and says, kiss my Latin ass. And like, I do think that obviously for the viewer who doesn't see the racist slurs that he's saying, you're like, Oh my gosh, she's like really going for it.

[00:29:09] But I think that that is the biggest key that like clearly something was said about their, her race and the culture that she comes from that, you know what I mean? Like it was just, the whole thing was crazy. And you're right that it was really edited to make it seem like Lydia and Shima and Kevin were all super dramatic and they wanted to fight everybody. And like, say one thing, one little thing.

[00:29:37] And they would pop off and like kind of went, went after him and attacked him. And then they had all these DRs of like Jordan and Jeff being like, I just feel so bad for Brayden, man. And it's like, what? Yeah. Uh, and that's, this may be a good time to talk a little bit about Jeff because, uh, of course, Jeff has a storied history across his time on, uh, big brother. Uh, he is the fan favorite by a large margin.

[00:30:00] Jeff becomes, uh, perhaps the biggest star in the history of the show to this point, uh, throughout his time on big brother 11 and then 13. Uh, it's not until season 13 that for most people, they start to notice he has some interesting, uh, views about, uh, gay people, um, because of his infamous, uh, Dumbledore rant.

[00:30:24] Uh, however, um, if you were watching the feeds at the time, uh, it would have been immediately apparent to you from the very beginning because he was already dropping F slurs, uh, and, uh, saying all kinds of homophobic things from day one, basically on the feeds. And all of that, of course, was a hidden away by the edit.

[00:30:43] Um, so, uh, lots of things going on in the edit here in week one, but it's made more interesting by the fact that when we get to the, uh, the first eviction, um, Shima goes off script. Mm-hmm.

[00:31:01] Shima in her, uh, eviction plea, uh, calls out Brayden for his racism, uh, and, uh, also starts, uh, talking about how he's made derogatory comments toward Julie. And, uh, the people in production were basically, uh, in reaction going like, uh, like this.

[00:31:25] So, to this day, I've never seen the uncensored, you know, like I watched it obviously like after the fact. So, I didn't get feeds or anything like talking about exactly what she said after. So, to this day, I don't really know what was said during that. But it was like, you know, classic awards speech, person speaking, and for 20 seconds, it's silence.

[00:31:52] Yes, uh, and, and the thing is, she really, she got out most of it. I think you kind of got the gist of what she was saying. Uh, she essentially then, it comes back in and she's saying, so if you vote for Brayden to stay, just know that you're voting for a racist and a bigot and a whatever. Uh, and, um, so then of course, uh, you know, after that speech, uh, everyone voted for Shima to stay except for half the cast because it was a tie vote. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Darkness.

[00:32:22] Darkness. Um, and I do think that this is the start of her, of Shima and the producers, uh, hating each other. And the friction that came between them because Shima wasn't afraid. Like, she wasn't afraid to, she was like, if I'm going to be here, I might as well bring honesty and truth to what's actually going on. And she refused to play the game of the producers.

[00:32:49] And we'll see that, you know, eventually cost her the game on the way out or on her way out later in the season. But, um, yeah, it's, it, it, it, it's wild. And it was a tie vote. Yeah. And this very much informs, uh, what comes later, uh, as, as sort of, you mentioned that the, her relationship with production, uh, and her willingness to, to, to knowingly during a live show, tried to get a message across that was not run by production.

[00:33:18] Um, which is going to, uh, come into play later, uh, with decisions that they make, uh, for the show. Um, so ultimately, uh, Jesse breaks the tie and evicts Brayden, uh, and Brayden becomes the first boot, uh, pretty widely considered to be, uh, one of the worst first boots, uh, that the show has produced.

[00:33:42] And that brings us to, uh, I mean, and a whole week of wildness going on already at this point. Uh, like, like that wasn't even like, you know, we're, we're talking about the, uh, like some of the arguments that are happening. The arguments are happening everywhere, all over. I can't even believe we haven't talked about Ronnie yet. Like this is like, how are we talking about this and not talking about Ronnie, Ronnie.

[00:34:09] Ronnie. Oh my God. Look at him. Look at his, his cast photo looks like every, like the backdrop of Ellie, every elementary school photo where they're posed like that. Like why did, what is with these big brother cast photos this season? It's really funny. Oh yes. Well, uh, Ronnie wins the next HOH and, uh, Ronnie is your resident kind of a schemer on the, yeah.

[00:34:35] Like the must, the mustache twirler guy. He's the reason there was this tie vote that they didn't expect to happen with Brayden. Like he was the one who flipped and then he blames it on Michelle. And he, I mean, the crap that poor Michelle is put through this season. Anything goes wrong on BB 11 blame Michelle. Let me tell you, she's accused of this flip vote. Ronnie is mustache twirling. And when he gets in power, Michelle is on the brains click.

[00:35:05] So, Oh no, he can't go after her. And he's bartered this deal between the brains and athletes. Gosh, Ronnie. Yeah. Uh, Ronnie, very much the kind of player that will like lie for the sake of it, because this is like the playground in which he is going to like be the ultimate puppet master.

[00:35:31] Uh, the next doctor will, um, and he is doing his best to play both sides, uh, in this game. Um, very quickly going to be caught doing so. Uh, he, like many before him and many after him is called a rat, um, and gets his own sort of rat nickname.

[00:35:53] And the fan base and, and I think even in the house, uh, and, um, you know, he's going to get called out by Russell in a very famous argument. And I will say like horrifically bullied. I mean, you want to talk about like horrific bullying in the big brother house. Look no further than Russell and Ronnie and BB 11. Like the famous fight you're talking about. He, he was trapped in that HOA dream. Like it was, it was some darkness.

[00:36:23] I will say. Mm-hmm. Uh, he initially nominates Jeff and Laura, uh, Laura, who is, you know, ultimately going to be voted out here. Uh, part of the kind of side that was Jeff. And Laura is so funny to me. I'm sorry.

[00:36:47] Uh, Jeff and, and, and Casey to some degree and Jordan, uh, all of these people trying to, trying to sort of like have this. It's, it's, it's, again, it's like a lot of like the, you know, pretty popular clicky people from those sides are finding themselves on the outs, uh, with Jeff as kind of their athlete ally. Um, and, uh, Laura is going to take the hit here after Jeff wins the veto, uh, takes himself off, is replaced by Jordan.

[00:37:16] Um, but ultimately Laura voted out over, uh, Jordan. Um, funny enough, Natalie, the only person to vote for Jordan to leave, uh, ultimately then losing to her in the place. Final two. Um, but, uh, Laura very much falls into this sort of archetype, uh, again, that is often talked about, uh, you know, the, the model curse for Brayden. Uh, and, you know, Laura, I think, I think was part of some curse, uh, for the second eviction as well.

[00:37:44] But I think that Laura just had no business being on big brother and, and she was trying, but like, there was just, sorry. There was just like no charisma. No, there was just nothing there. And like Jesse immediately hated her within the first, I watched the first couple of episodes to try to like refresh on all the characters.

[00:38:08] And within literally 20 minutes of the first episode, Jesse's like, Laura's fake and trying to suck up to me. And she sucks. I was like, oh my gosh. Poor Laura. Just existing. Yes. Yes. Uh, this is also the start of Jordan kind of, uh, at least for a little while being, or at least for a couple of weeks being sort of like the pawn that is used, uh, to send out, uh, the other people.

[00:38:32] Um, again, there's, there's a whole lot of drama with Ronnie getting caught trying to play both sides. He is not long for this game after this HOA train, uh, though he does survive one more week after Jesse wins the, uh, the next HOH. Um, Jesse wins the first and the third HOH really just cementing his power in the game. Uh, he nominates Jordan and Michelle, uh, Michelle wins the veto.

[00:38:57] And, uh, and then ultimately, uh, Casey, uh, goes up on the block, uh, with his, with his banana costume. Um, and so, uh, it's really like lots of drama, but it's, it's a fairly straightforward sort of like, there's one side that's really just kind of eliminating the other side. Mm-hmm. Between Brayden, Laura, Casey, uh, it's like just one after another.

[00:39:24] And, like, the drama also is just, honestly, like, a bunch of, like, a lot of the drama is driven by these guys with huge egos, like, butting up against each other, basically. Jeff hating Russell, hating Jesse, hating Jeff, hating, you know, like, there's a lot of that going on.

[00:39:46] There's also a lot of, you know, Lydia fighting Loki with Natalie over, there's, like, this weird love triangle happening. There's a lot of drama that really is not super involved in gameplay and is just really steeped in these people's personal feelings towards each other. Like, personal issues that they have with each other's, like, nothing to do.

[00:40:15] You know how people will be, like, in Big Brother, like, it's not personal, it's just game. They're like, this is not at all game, this is all personal. Oh, yeah. Uh, very much so. Um, Casey, Casey was really, uh, an early favorite, I think, for a lot of the audience. They really thought he was very funny, um, and they thought it was very funny that he went on with a banana suit. Um, Casey was kind of like the OG Enzo.

[00:40:41] Like, Casey's spot really got blown up by Enzo the next season. Otherwise, I do think he might have, honestly, have been, like, back and back and back, you know? That's, that's pretty fair. I think that, like, that could track for sure. Um, again, here, just, uh, just in a spot, Michelle wins this veto, and, uh, he's up next to Jordan. Nobody thinks it's worth taking Jordan out at the moment. Uh, and so, um, that's going to be, yeah.

[00:41:06] So, which I will say, like, we do have to talk about that, because, like, Jordan is so clearly in a showmance with Jeff, who is public enemy number one. So, I, I do want to talk about that, at least in relationship with Jordan's game overall. Because people were seeing that, and they still were like, oh, Casey is a stronger ally for Jeff than Jordan. Because of the way that she was viewed in the house. Yes.

[00:41:34] Uh, and, and, of course, the way that she's viewed in the house is that, is, is basically that they just don't respect her very much. Uh, that she, you know, uh, and they ran these segments on the show. Like, you know, she has quirks, uh, and, and she has, uh, like, an accent. Um, and she asks funny. What do you always say about accents, Taryn? I think about that all the time. I am. Uh, she asks funny questions, uh, that are like, well, how do you not know this?

[00:42:03] Um, and so basically people just were like, yeah, she's just kind of here. Um, and, and really ultimately becomes one of, if not the first winner to have been viewed that way in the game, uh, for so long, uh, and then ultimately win the game. Uh, so it's not even that they were necessarily like historically wrong to have assumed this, uh, of Jordan, but the showman's angle is certainly a dangerous one.

[00:42:31] Um, but yes, ultimately they saw Casey as just a more social and dangerous player. And so, uh, decided to remove him instead. Uh, and that's when Russell wins the next HOH. Uh, and, uh, you know who Russell wants out, uh, you see after he called Ronnie out, he doesn't like rats. Uh, and so Russell is gunning straight for Ronnie.

[00:42:57] Uh, and this time there is, uh, Michelle wins veto again, does not use it this time. And that means that, uh, Ronnie stays on the block up against Lydia and, uh, is going to be voted. It's actually a fairly close vote. It's four to three. Um, uh, you know, because there, he did have the, the support of, uh, you know, of at least, you know, part of the house. Uh, but, uh, but Russell is going to get his way and Ronnie is going to leave.

[00:43:27] Yeah, it's. It, it, this little section of time too. And, you know, he goes after Ronnie that the thing is in that this house in particular, like there were so many people who were each other's enemies. Like you always say, Taryn, like it's great to have an enemy in the big brother house because then everybody knows where your target is.

[00:43:52] And yes, Russell made it very clear that Ronnie was his enemy, but also Jeff was his enemy. Also Lydia at times was his enemy. Also Jordan was his enemy. Is this after or before technotronics, the technotronics fight and the fight with Jordan. Technotronics already happened. I believe. Yeah. So was that when Jordan chest bumped him? Was that during technotronics? I think, well, hold on. I think that comes later. Okay.

[00:44:21] So those are two different fights. I think so, but I could be wrong. Oh my gosh. Like it, this, the thing is, yes, you already knew who Russell was going to be going after when he went after Ronnie. But I will say, I don't know necessarily in this grand scheme of Russell's game, if Ronnie was the correct person for him to be going after in this moment. Because Russell made so many enemies in the house.

[00:44:48] And I guess he couldn't have gone after Jeff because he was on his team, but it, you know, it, it was just, I, Russell to me was always so surprising because he managed to make an enemy out of everyone in some capacity.

[00:45:07] Well, and this is the thing because Russell, in many ways, ironically, is sort of in a similar position to Ronnie where he ends up kind of playing all sides.

[00:45:19] And this HOH is kind of an example of that where, you know, it's ultimately going to be, you know, Jeff and Jordan and Michelle and them who are voting out Ronnie. And it's going to be like Jesse and Shima and, and, and Natalie who are voting out Lydia.

[00:45:44] And that doesn't, you know, he's against them, but it's theoretically working with them still, but he was never fully in with them in the way that sort of some of the others were. Uh, and so this is kind of, you know, not necessarily the start, but like a starting point for this very shaky relationship between Russell and Jeff, where they both kind of, uh, bailed from this athletes thing, but in different directions and for different reasons.

[00:46:13] And so they sort of had this kind of like the enemy of my enemy is my friend thing going on, but they did not vibe. That is the perfect way to put it. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. And I do just have to shout out the one and only Chappelle who's in our comments talking about how much he loves the season. And he is quoting Ronnie's speech as he's on his way out that says there's so much good in all of you, except for you, Michelle, you are the worst human being.

[00:46:41] I have ever had the misfortune of meeting for no reason. I mean, no reason did he hate Michelle. And you want to know, actually, the thing about Ronnie that I have beef with is he is such a fake little flip flopper because in the house, he's like, I love you, Natalie. Screw you, Michelle. The second he got out of the house and got on Twitter and saw everyone being like, we hate Natalie. He was like, yeah, no, you know who hates Natalie? Me. I hate her so much.

[00:47:08] And then at the finale, he has the nerve and the gall on stage to be like, yeah, Natalie, you're so horrible. And she's like, what did I do to you? Ronnie. Listen, he plays all sides so that he always comes out on top. Fake and phony, Ronnie. I see through that. I see through that. Well, it is. It is quite the speech on his way out. Really just had it in for.

[00:47:37] And yeah, to my memory, this also like came very much out of nowhere for the audience. Sort of sort of like a Steve Becky situation where it was just like, wait, what? Since when is Michelle the most terrible person you've ever met? Michelle doing like nothing offensive in the house. Yeah, just just chilling. Michelle, Michelle also very famous.

[00:48:04] Well, I'm sure we'll talk more about her later, but like very famous for being like a very sort of especially in the context of this cast, like a very like chill kind of presence. But then outside of the house was then known for like being like a wild person to my memory. She was like a scientist in the house and then she got out of the house and. Yeah, there was some stuff where Google if you need to. Yeah.

[00:48:35] So Ronnie leaves and this finally brings us to sort of the the big week of the season, the season or the week that is most memorable for the season. And that is when Shima wins the HOH. Shima allies with Jesse allies with, you know, Natalie and and and Lydia.

[00:49:02] And, you know, she is she is the new HOH. She nominates Lydia with Russell next to her. Lydia was sort of, you know, the intricacies of this side of the house were not. Oh, yeah, it was not. But Lydia was just it was the glue that held everyone together.

[00:49:23] The point was that Shima was retaliating and taking Russell out of the game because Russell had now become a new threat to their sort of order here. Mm hmm. And like like you said, with Jeff and Russell, they were newly working together as the enemy of my enemy is my friend. And Lydia, to my memory, just kind of like pissed everybody off. Like she was a big personality that people sometimes would clash heads with her.

[00:49:52] And Natalie really did not like each other because they were both vying for Jesse's attention. And you're right. The intricacies of that side of the house, it was not straightforward. It was not giving friendship vibes where everybody really liked each other. And it was, you know, they were all they were all loyal to the deity that was Mr. Spectacular. Yes. And, you know, things are going well. Kevin wins the veto. The nominations stay the same.

[00:50:22] Everything's locked in place. And that's when they learned that there is a twist coming. Mm hmm. Um, and it's a twist that is largely considered to be, I think, the most unfair broken twist probably in the history of the show. Yeah. It is a voted for coup d'etat. Mm hmm.

[00:50:49] Um, that's, um, you know, it's may, I guess that's, that's sort of what Eric Stein was, but all season. Uh, but also Eric, but also Eric was held hostage by that. So like it was beneficial to him in a lot of ways, but then also, you know, I sort of mean that like, like Eric Stein himself was like a fan voted coup d'etat for evil dick. Uh, to be able to use all season long. Um, so, uh, so here, here's the thing.

[00:51:17] She, she had an idea that something was coming, right? Uh, she was, um, she was on the live feeds and she was saying like, I swear to God, if you overturn my age, if you ruin my HOH live on television, you won't believe the kinds of things that I'm going to say. Wow.

[00:51:41] Um, and so in response production said, uh, fine, uh, we won't let you. And, uh, for the first time and only time in the history of the show, they did not air that eviction live. Uh, they pre-taped it. I did not know that Taryn. Yeah. I have never heard that. That is shocking to me. Actually. They did not want to give Shima another chance to do what she did in week one.

[00:52:11] Okay. Okay. Actually, this all then makes sense about what happens next because the fact that they were so, oh, Shima, you did not stand a chance. Oh, that honestly really breaks my heart because that is. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:52:30] That, that is really eyeopening about the way production felt about her and the, the level of tolerance they had for her behavior compared to some other winners of the season who, uh, season 21, who broke rules all the time. Like, like that makes so much sense to me. And I am actually mind blown to hear that. Mm-hmm. Yep. Uh, I, I think you, you said it perfectly.

[00:53:00] Uh, it, it definitely, again, it's, it's, it's all one sort of big storyline starting from Brayden and the speech during the live show that they had to mute live on air into her HOH train that then, uh, is dethroned by Jeff's coup d'etat, uh, also known as the coup d'etat.

[00:53:20] Jeff, um, he gets to take over as the HOH, um, and make his own set of nominations, uh, in Shima's place. Uh, he nominates Jesse and Natalie. There is no opportunity to save yourself. Uh, and so they just then voted out Jesse. And that was the end of Jesse's reign. Just like that sniped out of the game.

[00:53:47] Um, and, uh, very much was, you know, looking like he was about to stomp his way down to a victory, uh, but gets twisted right out just like that. Mm-hmm. And, you know, I will say, like, it is such a shame that it was a twist like this because I do think, like, if Jeff won that next HOH, he would have done the same thing. You know what I mean? Like, this would have eventually happened.

[00:54:14] Um, and it just, it really left such a sour taste in Shima's mouth, obviously, and a lot of fans' mouths. Um, like, not because they were so in love with Jesse, but just the overpoweredness of this twist. I do think that it puts this weird asterisk on Jordan's win. And it's just this weird, it is the most unfair thing to come out of Big Brother.

[00:54:41] The most unfair twist given to a house guest ever. I do think Jesse getting in the way he did and automatically becoming HOH was also one of the most unfair things Big Brother's ever done, to be fair. Um, but, yeah, it's goodbye, Mr. Pectacular. And what a, what a celebration of life he had in the house.

[00:55:05] I mean, the, the funeral that was put on for Jesse after he was coup de jeffed. What round of applause. Yes, the smallest violin that ever, that ever played playing in the background. I do want to give some kudos to somebody who has, has gone mostly under the radar so far, but definitely needs to be talked about. Largely seen as the best strategist of the season.

[00:55:34] Kevin Campbell, who ultimately is going to return and have a disappointing showing in Big Brother 22, but has an impressive game here in Big Brother 11, certainly stands out amongst this cast for his strategy. Karen, I do think that it shows though, like the level of strategy on this cast. You know, I do. I love you, Kevin, though. You are DR king on this season. Yes.

[00:56:03] Kevin now to his credit is, is voting between Jesse and Natalie. Natalie is ultimately like a closer ally of his. But he was, he was never like in the driver's seat of the Jesse group. And it is Kevin's key vote that sends Jesse out this week. But then he is immediately able to reintegrate with all of the people that he just sort of flipped on, as is Natalie.

[00:56:29] They all come together kind of in recognition of how nonsense the whole situation was. And really rides this very far and very nearly the winner of the season. This would have been Kevin's winning move, voting out Jesse here, if he were to win the season. Definitely. Because he kind of sits in firmly in the driver's seat that Jesse was in post this, you know, moment.

[00:56:54] But we're, of course, referring to Jesse's funeral that happens after this, where Lydia and Natalie and Shima are all sobbing at the table, giving eulogies. And Kevin is sitting there with them, also looking for Lorne. And in the DR is like, he, he didn't die. Like what? Reminiscent of Cappy in season six for him.

[00:57:21] And you could even make the argument that they, they have a similar look, a similar vibe. And, you know, honestly, like just as cracked of an alliance, you know, like very similar, I feel. Well, so of course, this is immediately followed up by Michelle winning the following HOH.

[00:57:48] And to my memory, they, let me just double check this because now it used to be locked in, but now they've had so many scenarios like this that it's, I've gotten confused. I don't recall if they even allowed Shima to compete in the following HOH.

[00:58:08] That's so, I was going to say a bad word, but that's so ridiculous if they did not allow her to compete. I know that she, I'm pretty sure she was not able to vote in her dethroned HOH. But, because I remember there being something that the, Jeff did not vote. I believe it was, I believe it was just five votes that, that round.

[00:58:38] Because Jeff didn't vote and Shima didn't vote as they were both like previously or currently head of household, essentially. Either way, Michelle wins the following HOH and, and, and nominates Shima and Natalie. Just Michelle, one of the few people that could have won this HOH, but, you know, given the numbers advantage now, and Jesse had been such a cornerstone of their competition prowess.

[00:59:08] Michelle also was underrated at the time for her competition ability. She had won two vetoes back to back, really was a decent threat here, but they didn't have a chance to take her out because she had been winning three, week three, week four, she's immune. Week five, Jeff has, Jeff has the coup d'etat. And then she wins week six. So she's just going to continue to strike at the other side, Shima and Natalie.

[00:59:32] And this is when Shima is just, she's just had it with this whole situation. And she does not want to put her microphone on. She does not want to play ball with production. They didn't even, they pre-taped the eviction. Well, she starts to cover up some cameras too. She's like, screw you. You're going to screw me. I'll screw you. Exactly. They stripped her of her HOH. It was, it felt very unfair.

[01:00:01] And she's just like, I'm not going to give you content. I'm not going to like give you the content of getting to watch me feel miserable because of what you've done to me. I wonder also, Taryn, like if, have you ever gotten a chance to speak with Shima? I have not spoken to Shima myself. Oh my gosh. That was, she would be someone who I would really, really love to hear from now because I wonder if she felt as though, like I didn't even really put it together until you said that they didn't air that live eviction.

[01:00:30] I wonder if she felt as though, like it was very pointed that it was going to be overturned on her HOH as like a punishment for what had happened that first week. Like, you know, like I wonder if she, I wonder what she would say about that because I imagine if I was in her position, I would definitely feel that way.

[01:00:50] And it makes, this makes so much more sense to me now, all of this, like I empathize with her even more than I already did to begin with that, about what the actions that are about to happen. And I would love to, if Shima is around and is willing to discuss Big Brother or her experience, I would love to hear on whatever platform she has.

[01:01:13] If someone wants to direct me or maybe if Taryn could get the opportunity to talk to her, I think that she would be such an interesting interview. I do believe she has made some comments, though. I don't think they're verified that she's made some comments about her time on the show. And they were, they were mostly along these lines of like, I felt like, like they had it out for me after. Sure. Sure. That makes sense.

[01:01:42] So, uh, refusing to play ball, uh, Alison Grodner is going to come over the loudspeakers, uh, be like, you know, trying to, I think that actually comes later, but like they're, they're trying to get her to put her microphone on. They're trying to get her to, uh, to play ball again. Her alliance is trying to do the same, like Shima, come on, just, just please just put on your microphone. Uh, at one point she's out in the backyard, hand her a microphone. Uh, she's like, fine. She takes it.

[01:02:10] As soon as she gets it in her hand, she chucks it. It lands in the hot tub. Uh, and, uh, after that, Alison Grodner comes over the loudspeakers. She, uh, pleads for Shima to please come to diary room. Uh, she does. And they direct her right out the house ejected from the game. Yeah.

[01:02:33] And thinking about her situation compared to other people who we've watched do similar instances of breaking rules, if not worse instances of breaking rules and the way that she was punished for it, that it really does break my heart. And I do think that it changes the trajectory of the game in general for sure. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[01:02:59] So, just like that, both Jesse and Shima gone. The entire strategic landscape of the game is, has shifted. Jordan wins the following HOH. And just like that, like, Jesse's entire empire has not only crumbled, but it's in shambles. Yeah. And Lydia and Natalie are now on the block together. Jordan also wins the veto. And it's time for Lydia to follow Shima.

[01:03:27] Uh, well, I guess not follow Shima, but follow, uh, Jesse, uh, out the door. Um, and you know, I do want to say though, this is the week that Kevin in all of his glory comes up with that big old lie about Russell. Right. Right. So, uh, so, so this is, this is the, like, the rest of the strategy of the season. This undercurrent of this shaky kind of deal between Jeff and, uh, Russell.

[01:03:55] They have been sort of on the same path because they had, they shared an enemy, right? However, when you have somebody who are, you have this loose alliance with, um, to destroy the enemy, but then the enemy has now been destroyed fairly quickly. The question now becomes, are you now friends? Do you now work together or do you turn on each other?

[01:04:19] Um, and this was the big question of season, uh, of the back half of season 11. Uh, it was who's winning the competitions and what's going to happen between Jeff and Russell, who is going to strike first. Um, and there was a lot of back and forth, a lot of conversations that were being had about this. Um, you know, can they actually work together, finish off the rest of them, Natalie, Kevin, uh, and get to the end together.

[01:04:46] Um, and it is, it is Kevin, uh, in particular, who comes up with this idea that let's just, let's just make something up. Like these two are on such shaky ground in the first place that if we just lie, uh, and tell Jeff that, you know, that Russell is coming for him or Russell said this, uh, you know, then he, I just believe us. And then he'll go after Russell, uh, which is exactly what happens.

[01:05:16] Um, and, uh, not this week. It wasn't enough to save Lydia, but it did save Kevin moving forward. Yes. Jeff wins the following HOH and veto and uses that to send Russell, uh, out the door. Mm-hmm. Um, we have not spoken Taryn about Natalie yet. We're an hour into this podcast. And we have a lot to talk about Natalie for sure.

[01:05:42] Um, but she doesn't become super strategically relevant until the end game, I think. Sure. But I just cannot believe that we're an hour and four minutes into a BB 11 podcast and have not brought up Natalie at all. She, uh, Natalie, um, Natalie is, I would say, uh, certainly the most hated person from the season, from the audience's perspective.

[01:06:11] They really did not care for Natalie. Uh, that's. What? If you look at her Twitter now, I'm going to tell you right now, spare yourself. Don't do it. The audience was not wrong. No. Okay. Don't do it. Um, as the big brother audiences want to do, they had, uh, some nicknames for Natalie that weren't particularly kind. They had issues with her hygiene, with her attitude, with her behavior, with her words.

[01:06:39] Um, and, uh, they, you know, they were really like, uh, they did not like her relationship with Jesse. Um, and, uh, she was also, yes, lying about her age, uh, in the house. Also so freaking weird because one, why two? You, like, it's objectively not a good lie because you have, there are age requirements to be on this show.

[01:07:07] Like, I know Danny Donato was 19, but she was also the daughter of somebody in the house and it was a huge twist. Like, that's the only time that anyone under the age of 21 has been in the house because if they're allowing alcohol in the house, they need to ensure that the person doesn't drink. Like, I will never understand her being like, I'm 18 years old. I'm saying I'm 18 because I don't want them to know that I'm older and know what I'm doing.

[01:07:37] Uh, so yes, that is sort of Natalie's situation. So, and that, and that kind of like is, is relevant to the landscape of the house after Russell leaves. Of course, uh, Russell and, uh, and Jordan are going to really get into it. Uh, the, the chest bump happens. This is like, oh, it's Jordan's feisty side. Um, and, uh, again, sort of, you know, Jeff and Evil Dick actually share a lot of qualities when it comes to the way that they were edited.

[01:08:05] Um, where like anytime Jeff gets heated, he is sort of, sort of, you know, portrayed to be in the right. Uh, and sort of like, you know, like, Hey, like he, he was standing up for Jordan or he was standing up for Brayden or, uh, you know, like, um, like, Hey, Russell is really the aggressive one here. Um, and, uh, and, and this is really, uh, the first time you really see Jordan get involved and really get in there.

[01:08:34] Uh, and I mean, she, she gets in there. She is screaming in his face. She chest bumps him. I was like the chest bump that. And don't get me wrong. I have yelled at a, in a couple of men's faces, but I've never chest bumped anyone. Also, how was that allowed in the house? And that was like shown as a part of her edit of like, Oh, look at Jordan. Like she's so wonderful and like feisty and cool.

[01:09:03] How like there are just so many double standards. There's no shot. They were ever rejecting Jordan from this game. There's just so many double standards because what? Listen, Matt, it's very simple. If it has to do with your head, you're ejected. If it has to do with your chest, you're not. So if you lose your microphone that is for your mouth, that's bad. If you head, but someone that's bad. If you chest bump someone, that's not bad.

[01:09:33] It's very simple. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. Hearing all of this stuff about production, like you're watching me process this in real time. And it's really frustrating me a lot. I'm not going to lie. I'm very, I have honestly, slightly different views of this season than I did coming into this podcast an hour and eight minutes ago. It happens.

[01:10:01] That is, that is sort of the, the nature of the beast with big brother. I know. Especially big brother 11, which very, as I sort of said from the start is very much a season that, uh, I think if you, if you were there for the feeds or if you know about the feeds, uh, then you know, this season for its deceptiveness and, and sort of it's at it. Uh, and, uh, and, and, and, you know, it was also still very messy, you know, like, uh, certainly also existed, but, but not always.

[01:10:29] In fact, it's very often in, uh, in bad ways, uh, is sort of the, the issue. Um, so Russell is, uh, is betrayed by Jeff, uh, who then is betrayed by Kevin, uh, who turns around the following week, wins the HOH, uh, nominates Jeff and Michelle, which was the smart move because Michelle ends up winning the veto. And that means that Kevin is able to renom Jordan.

[01:10:58] And just like that, Jeff and Jordan on the block together, one of them is guaranteed to go home. And let me tell you, America wept. Star-crossed lovers. Yeah. You're right. Romeo and Juliet star-crossed lovers. At least he wasn't, you know, I, I will say.

[01:11:24] The way he went out the season after his, on season 13 was way more humiliating than this. Um, so he did end up getting what he truly deserved, which was clown shoe. Um, but yeah, yeah, totally. You're right. America did weep. Yeah. Uh, the, the, the, the, the people were up in arms, uh, over this Jeff and Jordan. And they, of course, they milked it. People, Taryn, were you one of those up in arms people?

[01:11:53] I, I was not up in arms. Uh, but what I will say is this was not a season, um, that I was paying close attention to the fields. Uh, I, I am, I, I think I probably represent, uh, the, the people who sort of came to the knowledge about Jeff later. Uh, because I was not like, you know, up on what was happening with what he was saying, uh, and everything there. Yeah.

[01:12:20] Um, for as much as big brother 10 reinvigorated sort of my love for the show, um, it was, uh, very quickly. I was just like, in fact, I'm pretty sure it was the lack of Brian Hart getting on. And I was like, Oh, screw this. So, you know, I, I kind of feel like, and I, I don't want to draw a direct line, but I

[01:12:46] do feel like Jeff and Jordan were kind of the OG OG, like Jess and Cody, because there was a returning player who was the big bad and they were the lovers against the world. And like, even though Jeff was deeply problematic and Cody was deeply problematic, everybody was like, well, the big bad is worse in the house. So like, let's just rally around these like all American people.

[01:13:11] And it really, I, as we've been talking about this, I see a lot of similarities in the, like the, their journeys with big brother in general. Yeah. Um, I mean, I, I think that they, they, they really like to try to repeat what they feel works. Um, and so I think you end up with similar patterns, um, for sure. Uh, so, um, so Jeff ends up leaving here.

[01:13:41] He is evicted over Jordan. It's, uh, it's, it's actually, you know, pretty close. It's a tie vote. Kevin has to break the tie to evict Jeff. That's because Michelle is going to vote Jordan out in the hopes of keeping Jeff around as a stronger ally. Um, but, uh, but ultimately Jeff is evicted from the game. And just like that, it is now, uh, essentially, uh, like a two V two.

[01:14:03] It is Michelle and Jordan versus, uh, Natalie and Kevin and Jordan gets into this spot, which is, uh, it's, it's kind of, um, I, I, I don't know if I've like specifically coined it anything, but like I talk about this spot a lot, which is guaranteed safety at final four.

[01:14:26] Um, and that is because, uh, because it's a two V two scenario and it's Jordan and Michelle versus Kevin and, uh, Natalie, uh, Michelle is always going to be evicted over Jordan. She is just a bigger comp threat. Uh, she, it's, it's much better to take Jordan to the final three than it is, uh, to take Michelle to the final three because Jordan is less likely to win the final three HOH. Michelle is.

[01:14:56] Um, so because of that, uh, well, I, I, I should say this as soon as Michelle doesn't win the final four HOH, uh, uh, uh, Jordan is guaranteed. Um, so she's not quite in the, like the optimal best spot that, uh, that, um, uh, what's her name? Natalie, the only HOH she won the entire season after she bragged about the, how she was best, the best, most athletic person in the entire world.

[01:15:23] And she wore that heinous HOH robe and she looked crazy coming down the stairs doing that nomination. Yeah. We all remember that moment. We all remember that moment. Um, it's Nicole who is going to have this position and be where they're 18, uh, because Corey had won the previous HOH and was ineligible to compete in the final four HOH, which guaranteed her final three. Uh, but, uh, Jordan has a pretty close position to that spot.

[01:15:49] Um, able to compete in the final four HOH and veto if either herself or Michelle wins the veto at final four, they are evicting, uh, Kevin here, uh, because Natalie ends up winning the, uh, the HOH. However, Natalie wins that HOH. Kevin wins that veto. And that means that he is going to be evicting Michelle, uh, and bringing, uh, Jordan and Natalie to the final three. Goodbye, Noonan. Fourth place robbed goddess.

[01:16:20] Yep. Uh, again, like she was a force on this season. She was great. And I, I really think that if she was given like a different cast, she could have, you know, found her footing a little better. She, for whatever reason, she was like the punching bag of everybody on this season in a way that I, I truly don't understand. She was not well-respected. So here's the thing.

[01:16:50] Um, we talked about big brother eight. I would say she is very much the Zach of season 11. Um, somebody who made it very close to the end. Uh, I think unlike Zach, probably a little less likely to win in the end, uh, uh, despite her impressive run, but, um, but, but was never very well respected in the house. Just kind of had an alliance with the group of people that ultimately benefited from twists, uh, won a few comps here and there.

[01:17:19] Um, and, uh, and ultimately was, uh, was a big force in the game, even though she never had a great shot to win. She would just get blamed for everything though. And like, even I remember when Ronnie went home and did that speech against her, someone in the comments, I was like, for no reason, he's yelling at her. And someone in the comments was like, oh, well she had the veto and she didn't use it on him. And I was like, yeah, because he had spread a lie about her the previous week that she was the one who flipped the vote and try to pin his bad behavior on her. Like for no reason.

[01:17:49] I, I feel like she just, because her personality, like you said, she was like much more calm and sort of level-headed and she wouldn't really like buy into all of the fights. So because she wouldn't engage with that, I feel like people were felt like they could push her around. And then once they realized that they couldn't, they would, that would make them even more mad and that made them like hater. I don't know. Yeah. Well, that was it for, for Michelle. They get to the final three. It is Kevin, Jordan and Natalie.

[01:18:18] All Kevin needs to do is prevent Jordan from winning the final three HOH. And he has this locked up. Natalie will take him to the end. He will take Natalie to the end. He will handily beat Natalie in a final two. Taryn though. I was watching Peridium's video. That's right. Actually. Yes. This is a, this is a controversy. Yeah. I was watching Peridium's video on Jordan's win just to kind of refresh myself to get ready to podcast.

[01:18:44] And he said that Kevin has admitted like either me, I think maybe it was BB 22 live feeds that he was going to cut Natalie and take Jordan. And if that was the case, he probably would have lost against Jordan as well, or it would have been a much tougher battle. I don't know. Well, it actually, there's, there's a very good argument. Now, listen, I am not like up on the latest from what was, what would this jury have voted?

[01:19:13] Uh, but, but this was actually not such a slam dunk for Jordan in the way that you, I think would assume. Um, because the only way Jordan wins even against Natalie is by picking up Jesse and Lydia. Um, and because without those votes, uh, she loses, she loses even to Natalie. Um, and so Natalie was like particularly disliked by the jury, uh, her former allies, the person

[01:19:41] she was obsessed with Jesse voted against her, uh, in the final two. And the reason is everybody says is that like Lydia didn't like Natalie and then Lydia and Jesse were canoodling in the jury house in whatever way, whatever way you'd like to interpret that. I wasn't there. I don't know, but they were canoodling and Lydia got Jesse to turn on Natalie. Which may or may not be true. Yeah, exactly.

[01:20:08] But, but what, but what you can make an argument for is that if it had been Kevin in that seat instead, there's certainly, I think a much greater chance that both of those votes go in the way that you would otherwise expect, which is for their former allies instead of, uh, instead of Jordan. Um, you know, so regardless, uh, you know, one way or the other, Kevin, if he wins this, either has a slam dunk win or a very good chance or a decent chance to win.

[01:20:37] If Natalie wins this, he has a slam dunk win. If Jordan wins this, quite frankly, he should still have the win. If, if, if, you know, uh, if he's able to get Jordan to take him, I mean, uh, but he's of course not. Um, why, why, why, why? Why didn't he, like, what did he mess up on Taryn? Do we know? I mean, the, the, the problem is that like, and this is why it's, it was such a sort of

[01:21:03] like weird thing for him to say that he would have taken, uh, Jordan over Natalie, which I think is, is sort of representative of how they viewed Jordan in the game in terms of like how much they respected her game. But, um, but like Jordan certainly recognized that Natalie was more hated than Kevin. Um, and that Kevin was just a more impressive player overall. Uh, and so it, it wasn't a very hard decision and ultimately.

[01:21:31] I feel like Jordan's the type of person that if Kevin had put in the time and effort for two weeks prior, she would have taken him. Yes, I agree. I think that like there, there was an opening here. Uh, and, uh, and it was not again, like, I think that we often viewed Kevin, I think. And, and, and it's, it's so funny to talk about this because sort of the way that you view players changes so much over time.

[01:21:57] And so there's an era of time between, I would say like between big brother 11, maybe a couple of seasons after when people start to really risk like, uh, come to respect what he did. And then big brother 22, where you really start to look at Kevin as like, Oh, he's one of those guys, you know, like one of those players that like came pretty close was probably the best player of his season. Kevin underrated, maybe one of the best to never win, maybe. Um, and then you see him on big brother 22 and you go, did he change?

[01:22:27] Yeah. Uh, or perhaps was being the best player of big brother 11, maybe not outside of Jesse, uh, perhaps, but like, uh, maybe that wasn't the biggest compliment in the world is maybe another interpretation of that. I think that that's probably the best. That's probably the correct interpretation. That would be my assumption. So ultimately, uh, Jordan wins the final three HOH in a, in a bit of an upset. I mean, she'd won competitions before. It's not like she was significantly disadvantaged here.

[01:22:57] It's, you know, honestly, I think it was Natalie's hubris about her own abilities to that she could totally be like Natalie was like, Oh, there's no way she'll beat me in a physical competition. There's no way I do karate or Taekwondo or whatever it was that she did. She was like, I will never like Jordan can't do anything. I will beat her. And then guess who beat her? Jordan. Yeah.

[01:23:24] Um, and that is, uh, that is going to be it for Kevin. We've talked a lot about him. Welcome to the Froster Feierabend Tip. Faster than the delivery service from... Oh, no love to cook. ...to... Hey, it's already done. ...for example with Froster Butter Chicken. 100% free from adds to it. Only with natural ingredients. After the Froster Reinheitsgebot. Kurz... Mmm, very delicious. ...no-cally.

[01:23:54] Froster's dishes. And that you can save it. So then it is Jordan and Natalie in the final two. And like I said, uh, I think, and again, like now there's sort of a new era of viewing the strategy and the players of the season. Um, there's a, there's a perspective of Jordan for a while. And I think that's mostly gone away. That is like, well, Jordan is perhaps the ultimate social player.

[01:24:21] Um, because she makes it near to the end twice. Right? Uh, and, um, you know, she's just so, so, so imminently, uh, likable. She's just so likable. She was always going to get a lot of votes in the final two. But again, I think you really have to look at how she wins these, these votes.

[01:24:43] Um, first of all, uh, she gets a vote from America because America is voting in Shima's place. Um, and in a world where it's say Jordan versus Kevin, uh, or Jordan versus a Natalie that wasn't quite so hated. Uh, she doesn't have that as an automatic vote. And in fact, she maybe only gets as much as two votes from, from Jeff and, uh, and Michelle

[01:25:11] and loses all of the other votes, Shima, Jesse, and Lydia. Um, and, and I think that, you know, there's a, uh, certainly a case to be made that like, it's not as though, uh, Jesse and Lydia voted for Jordan as much as they voted against Natalie. Uh, the thing I think that you really need to look at when it comes to this jury vote is that Jordan is up against an historically disliked player, both inside and outside of the game, uh, in this final two vote.

[01:25:41] Um, and, uh, that is certainly, I think a large reason why she ends up winning. And, you know, so was Josh Martinez, which I do think is funny about the, both of those seasons have one returning player who like kind of runs the gambit at that. But I also think like the thing about Jordan, I know what you're saying about, like, she's like the ultimate social player, which like probably is not true, but I do think the thing about a player like Jordan Lloyd is she's probably going to get near the end of the game.

[01:26:09] 90% of the times that she plays. That was the narrative. Uh, I think for a while, but I don't actually think that's necessarily true. I think there are a lot of players, which is not meant to diminish Jordan. Um, but I think there are a lot of players like Jordan, uh, who could take that spot in it, you know, in any given season. Um, and it's not necessarily Jordan. That's going to be the one to do so. I think that that comes from the idea that she made it far in season, uh, season 13.

[01:26:38] Um, but, uh, but the thing you have to look at there is that she's not like a solo player there. She is a returning player in a, in a, in a, in a season where she had like a built in alliance. Right. Totally. I do think though, there is something to be said about the fact that, and I know you're going to be like, yeah, they didn't respect her, but I do think there's something to be said about the fact that she had a very, very obvious showman's relationship with the

[01:27:04] house pariah and she was on the block and they still chose to take out other people over her. And I know you're going to say, oh, they didn't respect her or whatever, which probably is true, but also that's why she was able to stay. So I don't know. Not being respected is a viable reason to say that like you didn't get voted out and that can be used, uh, as a strategy. It's just, I would say that like, I think there are lots of players who again can be in that spot.

[01:27:31] Um, and, uh, and so, you know, I, again, though, I, I think that the Jordan in particular was, was, and is a very likable player, uh, both in, inside and outside of the game. Uh, I don't think she was like super well loved in the game. Um, but she very much was outside of the game and she really fit in well to the story that they were crafting in the edit.

[01:27:55] Um, and, uh, and so this really was kind of like, uh, again, similar to season eight, a season where, uh, like the, the audience was on a journey via the edit, uh, that the producers were telling, um, and Jordan winning was not exactly what they wanted. It wasn't evil Dick winning, but it was kind of like Danielle winning, um, which would have been like, uh, quite frankly, the audience would have been less satisfied with Danielle

[01:28:24] winning than they were with Jordan winning because they liked Jordan more than they did Danielle at this point, at least. Um, but, uh, but this was very much like, you know, they certainly voted for Jordan and I think they would have, uh, they certainly would have against, um, against Kevin as well. So Chappelle, Chappelle is in the comments and he asks what Jordan's biggest strength is. Like, is it looking non-threatening? And I, I think Chappelle and anyone else listening, I personally think Jordan's biggest

[01:28:49] strength is that she's right in the sweet spot of being likable enough, but not too well liked that she's a threat and not like, not non-threatening enough that you're like, oh, she's going to be dragged to the end. And like, we got to take her out like via Ceri Courtney style in survivor Palau or not Palau survivor 12.

[01:29:15] And she's like in the spot where there's other people who are going to be deemed more useless than her. And there's other people who are going to be deemed more likable than her. So she's able to kind of maintain a lower threat level as she goes through the game. I think that that's her biggest strength. Is it like purposeful from her? No, no, I don't think so at all. But I do think she's well fitted for the game in that aspect.

[01:29:42] And, and what I will say is that, uh, I think largely the narrative about Jordan, even, even the sort of people who might defend her game, uh, is, is sort of this idea that she is maybe the best of the twist winners, uh, which is very much sort of, uh, a thing, um, twist winners being of course, evil Dick, uh, Jordan and some future players that we haven't gotten

[01:30:10] to yet on the big brother retrospective, but evil Dick and Jordan, the first two in that sort of category of people who had their win be like very significantly and directly impacted by a very significant and, uh, uh, direct sort of a twist. What do you mean though, by like the best twist winners? Because are you, are you saying though, like she's a better player or she was better to watch

[01:30:39] because you start, go ahead. No, you finished. I asked a question and then started to talk. So please, um, I mean, I think that there, there is a, a portion of the audience that really likes to debate about winners. And, um, amongst the, the winners that won via twists, the argument is, well, Jordan, uh, as you said, the argument was like, well, she's always going to make it far. She's very likable. If she makes to the end, she's usually going to win.

[01:31:07] I don't necessarily agree with those points. Um, but, uh, but I think that, uh, those, those would be the cases that are made for Jordan as a winner in that tier. I think very few people would argue that she is, uh, sort of deeply outside of that tier. Um, but, uh, but I am not, uh, sort of like, uh, I'm, I'm trying to convey sort of, I hope this isn't, isn't, um, coming across as me casting my own current judgment on Jordan,

[01:31:35] uh, as much as it is, as it is me hoping, hoping, hopefully explaining my understanding of the historical context of how her, her game has been viewed over time. Um, so yeah, that's, that's what I'm trying to do. No, definitely. And I do think we should do a podcast, Taryn, uh, during this off season, once you've gotten through most of the retrospective about ranking the best twist winners, because that would be fun. And I would, I would like to appear on that one.

[01:32:06] So I'm, I'm, I'm putting that out there, everybody. Um, because I think that there is a case to be made also with like a twist winner about what, how you're going to judge them. Is it based on like their actual skill? Is it based on, well, if it's a twist winner that has nothing to do with skills or are we basing it off of like how good they were on the show to watch, how exciting their journey was, you know what I mean?

[01:32:34] Is an argument to be made that being likable and fitting into production's narrative is a huge component of winning via twists because the audience kind of needs to be on your side. Uh, I guess the component, I think that's the component. Somebody like Jag may disagree. He didn't need the audience on his side to sort of, uh, have twists significantly, uh, you know, sort of help his game.

[01:33:00] Um, however, I think, and, and even, even Rachel to some degree, a lot of people talk about Rachel, uh, in this, in this vein, um, that, uh, it's not like she had a vote, uh, sort of in her favor. Certainly evil Dick and Jordan, I think could make this claim. Uh, so, you know, there, there's Josh Marquinez. Um, I, yeah, I don't think Josh could, uh, would say that, that his win was significantly

[01:33:25] impacted by the audience's perception as much as his was, uh, impacted by, I would say like, you know, his famous thing is the goodbye messages. He, uh, I think more, even more directly perhaps, uh, influenced the jury's perception or helped influence the jury's perception. Um, so, uh, yeah, but it's, it's definitely an interesting, uh, case to be made for sure. Okay. Um, we digress, but.

[01:33:52] Uh, so Jordan ends up winning here, uh, and that is a big brother 11. Um, it's, it's, it's a very strange season. Um, and it's, it's a very messy one. It comes off of the heels of big brother 10. And, and to me, as I said, sort of, uh, shows that I don't think the producers were trying to make big brother 10 as much as it was just kind of made for them.

[01:34:21] Um, and, uh, big brother 11, I think is, is just honestly a lot more along the lines of what they were trying to do, uh, in these, these four seasons in this era of the show. So I personally, I bet you, Taryn, if you asked them after the season, if they were happy with the season, they would have said like, yeah, they were super happy with the way that it went, you know? Yeah. And, and things are still going really well. Uh, I talk about this, that like big brother 10 really kicks off a golden age for big brother ratings.

[01:34:51] Uh, viewership continues to rise over this, uh, C over this era of the show. Um, and, uh, it doesn't start falling again until, uh, like, uh, like, like around 15 or so. Um, so what happened then? Huh? I don't know. I wonder why. Yeah. So I don't know. Could never, uh, predict. Um, so, uh, yes, it's, it's being pointed on the chat.

[01:35:17] Uh, this is, um, this is also the start of what I personally deem to be the, listen, there are many kinds of bad decisions made by production, but this is what I think is their worst, uh, sort of format related decision. The worst, the worst in the history of the show. Yes. And this is live jury questioning. Terrible.

[01:35:47] Terrible idea because I think that there is zero upside and it's all down. Like you can make a case for various twists, uh, various like editing decisions, but this to me just screams laziness. Uh, just like, I don't want to edit together a jury segment. Let's just, let's just force them to ask the same three questions live on the finale night.

[01:36:16] Uh, I think it has significantly impacted the quality of the show in general because the ending is so important. It feels less epic, less important. Um, the, the, the jury questioning has never been the same. There's never been a single jury questioning segment that has felt particularly memorable outside of like the contestants themselves making speeches of, of their lifetimes. Um, but of course that has nothing to do with the questioning.

[01:36:45] Uh, so, uh, I just think that this is just, uh, an awful, awful decision, uh, to, to make these live. This is the first time it happens. The jury questioning is never going to return at least, uh, as of 2025. Um, and, uh, and I think that's a damn shame because, uh, those used to be some of the best moments I think of the show. Okay. You made a good case.

[01:37:09] And I don't have anything else off the top of my head to argue with you about was that, which was the worst format change. Uh, so, um, so that's, yes, that is another legacy for big brother 11. Uh, and we are about to head into big brother 12, which, which very much does usher in a

[01:37:31] new era of totally show that of strategic dominance, uh, dominance that has never been seen to this point, uh, in the show. And big brother 11, uh, I think maybe, maybe to its credit is really the last season to have the kind of chaos that you see throughout its, uh, its reign. And even that it would like, quite frankly, if not for the twists, perhaps, uh, of the coup d'etat

[01:37:58] would have been a more, much more dominant, uh, showing as well, but, but not in the same way that big brother 12 is going to come in and, uh, and do so. I think big brother 12 is a game changer for a lot of reasons. Honestly. Um, I think the brigade changed a lot, the strategic dominance of them. I think Brittany changed a lot about the way contestants can were viewed in the DR.

[01:38:25] I think Brential changed a lot in general on here in terms of showmances. I do think Jeff and Jordan maybe kind of started that big brother era, but it was really cemented with the Brential of it all. And I think that where we're going is excited. I'm excited to listen to next week's. I love big brother 12. It's one of my favorites. Hmm.

[01:38:48] Well, uh, there's one more thing to do, which is talk about who should be on the poster for big brother 11. Okay. What do you think Maggie? Okay. Are we talking about as voted by the RHAP listeners? Well, listen, I think you can make a case for what you think should be the case for the poster. Okay.

[01:39:17] I think Jesse is on the poster. I think Jesse is the main strategic force of the season. He's the big twist. I know he goes out early jury, but I do think that he's the most important player on the season. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. I think sadly. We got to put big Jeff on there. I know. I know everybody.

[01:39:46] I'm just as upset about it as you are, but look. I didn't ask for this. Okay. And I do think I know everybody in the chat is saying Shima.

[01:40:05] And I am a little torn between Shima and Jordan because I do feel like Shima had such a strong presence on the season, but like her story was cut short and not by her. You know? Uh, I think. I do think I do.

[01:40:35] Oh, okay. You know what? Who, who cares? It's my, it's my DVD cover. So I'm saying Shima. All right. Uh, I, I think, I think Jesse, I think I agree with Jesse. I think Mr. Pectacular, uh, has a place here, especially as he did not have a place on the big brother 10 poster. Yeah. Um, I think that, uh, honestly, I think you can get away with putting Jordan in and not

[01:41:01] Jeff, uh, Jordan as a representative of their showmance, the ultimate winner of the season. I think you're right. But I think that if we were talking about actual like impact on the season and also impact on big brother in general, like where would we be if not for those giant mosquito memes, you know, and those interviewing skills. Yeah. Uh, listen, uh, I think, I think Jeff by default would be the number one person on this poster. Certainly if, well, I, in nowadays, I don't know.

[01:41:31] Uh, I think the CBS has gone a little back and forth on Jordan, but, um, but, uh, I think, I think there's a case to be made that you could put, that you could put, uh, Jordan on there and not Jeff. Um, and then, uh, I do think like, you know, pre BB 22, I think Kevin is a lock, um, post BB 22. Uh, there's, there's a little bit more of an argument for, you know, a, a Shima, uh, or, um, or

[01:42:00] even like, uh, um, you know, I just wrestled just, I don't know. Uh, ultimately, you know, uh, I don't think I have a lot of, uh, strong feelings on this one. I think that there's so many different directions you could go, uh, if you don't want to do the obvious of Jeff Jordan. And, and I think, I, again, I think if you, if you asked the audience who should be on

[01:42:29] the poster for big brother, 11 sort of, I would say pre BB, even on a pre BB 22, really. Um, it would probably be Jeff Jordan and Kevin. Yeah. I agree. And Jeff would have his detractors, but, uh, but he was still like, you know, interviewing contestants at that point. Uh, he was still very much like in the public sphere of things. It wasn't until later that, uh, that was the vote.

[01:42:57] I will never forget Cliff during his BB 21 interview when Jeff is interviewing him, Cliff just not answering the question and going one giant mosquito. I was like, there he is. There's our guy. Well, if you would like to vote yourself for who should be on this poster, you can go to robinswebsite.com slash BB retrospective, cast those votes for who you think should be on the poster.

[01:43:23] And we will reveal in next week's episode who ends up on the poster for big brother 11. And then we will talk about big brother 12, the brigade, Rachel Riley, uh, Brittany Haynes, uh, and, and so much more. So, uh, stay tuned for all of that. Maggie, what, what do you got going on? What do I got going on? Oh my gosh, you guys, the new season of temptation Island just dropped on Netflix. It's on Netflix now. So easy to access.

[01:43:53] You can watch all 10 episodes and Kirsten and I in the hot dummies on Island feed, we've got you covered. We're covering the season. Our first season is a crossover with nothing but Netflix with Chappelle, where we talk about episode one, the, uh, our recap of the first half of the season through episode five is also up so you can binge all the episodes. You can watch them on 1.5 and, uh, come listen to us there.

[01:44:20] And then tomorrow we're recording our final half of the season. We can talk about all of that. Please DM me. Tell me what you think of these men. Oh my gosh. The guys on temptation Island this season, horrible, horrible men. You think that BB 11 had some like, you know, horrible men. Look, these guys on temptation Island, they, they've got nothing on them. Um, so please come and find me. I am on blue sky. I am on Instagram.

[01:44:49] I'm on Tik TOK at ML Morgan underscore. I'm blue sky. I might just be ML Morgan. I can't really remember. Um, and yeah, you can find me there. I'm so happy to be here talking about big brother. I'm, I'm watching survivor. Amazing race. I miss big brother talks though. I miss this Taryn. It was so great to get to chat with you. Just like old times. Usually we'd be talking about feeds in Canada, but. Alas.

[01:45:19] I mean, it's been a couple of years, but yeah. Alas. Yeah. Uh, well, of course, if you want to find more of me, you can find me over on Twitch, uh, and YouTube now as well. Uh, streaming, watching survivor, playing games, talking about, I did a stream, a video on, uh, the traders this season. I had lots of thoughts about that. Uh, and a lot of people argued about my thoughts in the comments. So, uh, you can check that out if you want. Uh, we're covering jet lag this season with Tom Scott. It's a very, very fun season.

[01:45:49] So, uh, make sure you check out our jet lag coverage. Um, I got the tastemakers going on, on the scripted side of things. You want to hear my thoughts on all the latest new shows and movies. Uh, and, uh, I will soon be covering the wheel of time as well over on we know scripted TV. So check all of that stuff out. Thank you for joining us here today. And I will see all of you next time.

[01:46:11] We're going to see you next time.