Big Brother 10: A Weekly Big Brother Season Retrospective

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[00:00:45] Everyone and welcome back to the Big Brother Retrospective Podcast. I'm your host Ern Armstrong and we are here once again to talk through another season in Big Brother history on our way to this summer's premiere of Big Brother 27.

[00:01:05] And this week, it's time to talk about the much celebrated, the universally or relatively universally recognized best season of the show. It's Big Brother 10 and with me to talk about it is Aman. How you doing Aman? I am great, Taryn. I am so happy that I get to be here with you to talk about BB10.

[00:01:29] I was not expecting to get BB10 because I figured when Sam put out the call that everyone will be clamoring for Big Brother 10. So the fact that I was lucky enough to be chosen to talk about this with you, I am super duper excited. It's my favorite season. It's everybody's favorite season. It's your favorite season's favorite season. Okay, so I'm really excited to talk about it and this is going to be such a fun ride.

[00:01:55] Big Brother 10, I think is truly and I'm sure we'll heap plenty of praise on it throughout this podcast. But it's truly I think the pinnacle of what Big Brother can be as a show from from every angle from drama to strategy to just like the way that it plays out. It's just a phenomenal time and I'm sure we'll have a great time talking about it.

[00:02:23] But first, Aman, we have some unfinished business from last week. We talked about Big Brother 9 in what was I think by a factor of two the longest podcast we've done so far. Crazy! Big Brother 9 and we've got a poster voted on by the viewers who is going to be on the poster.

[00:02:49] Aman, do you have any guesses for who is on the poster, the three poster players for Big Brother 9? So I'm gonna assume that Adam has to be one given that he won. I will say maybe what's her face? Because I agreed with Jenny about Sheila.

[00:03:15] And then, I don't know, maybe we can throw in... I don't know, I honestly don't know for the third one. I have no idea. Well, here's the poster. I think the three people on the poster, fairly predictable. However, the order they were in may be a little surprising. Okay. Sheila, number one. Oh, wow.

[00:03:43] Crazy James, number two. And let me tell you, it was by a mile. Oh, crazy James. I forgot about his ass. How could I forget about him? Sheila was way far ahead of anybody else. Yes. And then, Crazy James, Adam and Sharon were all actually fairly close in the 2-3-4 spot. But it's gonna be Crazy James, number two. A baller, number three there on the poster. That is Big Brother 9. Wow. Okay.

[00:04:12] I mean, I think it's pretty appropriate. You got some... You got the winner. You got the winner's adversary slash love interest. And you just have the craziness in Crazy James to encapsulate the season. So, I think it's mighty fair. Mighty fair. Very appropriate, as opposed to the inappropriateness that we will be talking about soon. It's inappropriate! Woo! I'm excited to talk about this. Oh my God. Yes!

[00:04:41] Big Brother 10! Yes. Big Brother 10 airs in the summer of 2008, immediately following that winter season for Season 9. And I think, I have to imagine there's a lot of things going on here. One is that they just came up with this wacky concept for Big Brother 9. Maybe they're a little creatively spent.

[00:05:07] Maybe they used the premise that they were going to use for Big Brother 10 on Big Brother 9. Who knows? But for whatever reason, they're advertising that this is a back-to-basics season. Maybe part of it is that they lost a lot of their audience over the course of Season 9. Maybe not a lot of the audience, but the numbers dipped from premiere to finale, which is not a great sign. It's not, you know, it's fairly typical, but not at the scale that you saw in Big Brother 9. And so, maybe there was a little bit of fear.

[00:05:37] Maybe we've overloaded the audience. It's kind of, again, advertised as a back-to-basics season. And Big Brother 10 premieres to the smallest audience Big Brother has seen to that point. It was smaller than the Big Brother 9 premiere audience. And so, it seemed like there was a lot of skepticism. I can say from my perspective, I was very skeptical of, you know, Season 10.

[00:06:04] I was like, I don't know if the show is for me anymore after watching, you know, Season 9. And quite frankly, even sort of like the end result of Season 8. And so, I was a little hesitant to jump in. And I think that's where a lot of people were at the time. You know what? That's why we enjoy you, Taryn. Because you have been the same Taryn Armstrong since birth all the way up until now.

[00:06:31] Baby Taryn saw BB now and was like, uh... No. And now all the way to BB... And then BB10 was like the perfect, was the perfect reward. I feel like it kept some of the craziness of BB9. But Dan, obviously, being who he was, really helped to elevate the season as, at least in the sense of the strategy of it all.

[00:07:01] So, yeah, I can totally understand why anybody would be skeptic if you were like, watching back then. Especially also because they had a little less time to produce this season, right? Because of the whole writer strike and everything. And then BB9 was a fast, like, get it in, get it out. And so they had to really just like, bunker down and like, get this season for the next summer, just ready to go. So, with, you know, with that time crunch, it's no wonder that they were just like, you know what? Back to basics. Let's just strip it all back.

[00:07:29] Let's go back to where we were and, you know, try to rebuild something else new for the 10th season. And I thought that obviously was the way to go, for sure. And it really did seem to like reinvigorate the audience. The ratings go up over the course of season 10. I think I would imagine, I guess, as people are hearing, actually, it's good. And so, Big Brother 10 comes in with quite a cast.

[00:07:56] The oldest player to ever play the game, Jerry, is here. You've got, you know, Memphis, the mixologist. You've got Jesse, the bodybuilder. And amongst many others, you have Rennie, who's just like.

[00:08:20] And you have Dan and Libra cast to be rivals, cast to be a sort of political rivals. But of course, Dan had no interest in actually doing that. That was just how he got cast, which leads to, I think, you know, Dan being sort of like the most accidental win for Big Brother in their history, I think is a very funny thing. Yes.

[00:08:48] Because they, I imagine, like they were with Steve Moses, were very disappointed in Dan initially. And then very quickly, we're like, wait a minute. Hold on, we actually have something. We're cooking. Let him cook. Let him cook something real quick. He's got something. He's got something good. And I love that because I feel like it, it forces, you know, even casting wise, it forces the casting team to really have to not only search for new archetypes,

[00:09:17] because then of course you see the success of Dan. And then of course you want to replicate that in later seasons. So that, that archetype is sort of has like a spotlight on it, but it also sort of teaches them. Okay. Here's a guy that came into casting, totally played us successfully played us, and then went on to win our show. We got to start making sure that the people that are coming into the show and, and you know, they have varying degrees of success, obviously. We got to start making sure that people that come into the show or they're in this casting aren't trying to like play us either. So I felt like it, he really threw everybody for a loop.

[00:09:46] And I, I love a good shake up, shake it up, shake the table. Um, so, uh, they do have a, a small little twist at the start of the season, which is that the first HOH is going to be determined by first impressions.

[00:10:05] Um, and they are going to vote essentially for that first HOH, um, which I think is kind of a fun idea in concept. I think that, uh, they are going to eventually learn that there are potential downsides to this. Uh, if we flash forward to season 21, um, that there are perhaps some reasons why you shouldn't have a first impressions vote.

[00:10:35] If you have a cast makeup that, uh, is, uh, you know, very white and then there's say Ollie there, sitting there alone. Um, but, uh, ultimately this vote goes to the oldest guy there, Jerry, which, uh, does lead to a pretty phenomenal results for the first week of big brother. Yeah. I'm not sure where I cut out.

[00:10:58] Basically I was just comparing it to survivor and that we've seen this sort of like, you know, give the power to the person that seems the most trustworthy or that seems like a leader or whatever. And yeah, give it, you give, they gave it to the guy that is 75 years old. Um, seems to be like someone with a good head on his shoulders.

[00:11:18] They didn't realize how cracked he was, but it really did lead to a, an interesting week because while they considered him to be a leader, it also was interesting. What ends up happening with the age of which in that they kind of bullied him a little bit into his nominations. It really was sort of like, we gave you this power. We're your constituents. You're going to do what we want you to do. And, uh, that led to quite a contentious first week. It was a lot of fun. Yeah.

[00:11:48] You know, we've had a lot of very good week one, HOA trains, uh, in terms of entertainment value in big brother. Uh, the first week is always very chaotic as people are figuring out who their allies are. You know, you get players like Angela or Frenchie who kind of go on power trips and do all kinds of wacky things.

[00:12:09] Um, but big brother 10 has a first week of the game that is just as chaotic and wild, except from the perspective of the entire house. Uh, like it's not the HOH that's just going, going wild. It's that the entire house kind of comes together to overturn, uh, the machinations of one Brian Hart.

[00:12:35] Uh, and it, it has to be one of the most entertaining and satisfying, I think, uh, weeks of first weeks of big brother that there is. I mean, the season kicks off with such a bang. Um, and not only is it like, oh man, this guy who maybe seemed very promising as like a potential player and character just went out.

[00:12:58] You might be disappointed about that, but at the same time, you're very excited about the fact that look at all these other people that immediately caught him and ousted him. What kind of season are we in for now? Yeah. It was interesting because yeah, they, they gave Jerry the power and then this other guy in Brian sticks his head up above the crowd and decides to try to start dictating a few things in the house.

[00:13:20] And obviously in a democracy, no one likes a dictatorship. And so that was the, that was the first little taste of, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're not going to do this this season. Um, if anybody that is perceived to be power hungry or trying to tell everybody else what to do or bully others. Yeah, they got to go now. It's, you know, to Brian's defense, he did have a few allies that were, you know, a little less amenable to seeing him leave in Dan for one in Steven for another.

[00:13:50] But for the most part, yeah, this was all good old fashioned. Everybody goes up to the HOH room and says, yeah, Brian, no, that's not who we want as a representative for the season. He's got to go. Yeah. So, so basically how this works is that, uh, right out of the gate, Dan, Brian and Ollie, uh, get together. They form a little bit of a trio.

[00:14:17] Um, and they are basically trying to do a little bit of like four horsemen, a little bit of like that bro alliance. Um, and, uh, and quite frankly, might have been on the way to doing something along the lines of like a brigade, uh, that we will see in a couple of seasons. Um, however, things go poorly for a couple of reasons. Um, but I guess before they go poorly,

[00:14:45] Brian then uses, uh, sort of his connection to Jerry, uh, as having like a military background to help influence Jerry's nominations. Um, and in particular protects Dan that week, because right from day one, Jerry was looking at Dan as a potential pawn to go up and on the block that week.

[00:15:08] Brian is able to step in and protect Dan from being upon from Jerry in that first week using that connection. Uh, and so they have a lot of power here and they are looking at like, okay, what should we do? We should probably target, uh, some big players.

[00:15:24] Memphis is one of the, uh, uh, primary targets initially for the two of them, uh, for the three, for the three of them. Uh, however, uh, that changes when, uh, more drama happens and the target shifts to, uh, a different guy, uh, Jesse. Um, and that's because of, uh, some, some sleep scheduling issues.

[00:15:53] Yeah. Yeah. You know, um, Jesse just can't take it with all of the noise. You know, he's a big guy. He's a bodybuilder. Those muscles need sleep. They need fuel. And who should be, uh, an antagonist towards that fuel, but one, Renny Martin, you know, she's, uh, she's not used to these time zones. Okay. She's a little, she's a little jet lagged or whatever the reverse of jet lag would be for her.

[00:16:20] Um, man, you know, she's up at all hours of the night, keeping Jesse up squawking and squealing and that, uh, gets on his nerves. Yes. Uh, the conflict between there's so much that happens in the first week that is so, uh, like it carries on throughout like Jesse and Renny instantly get into fights.

[00:16:41] Um, you know, uh, Dan and Memphis, uh, Dan and, and, uh, Jerry already at it. The fact that Dan is targeting Memphis initially, I think is very fun. Um, but, uh, Jesse and Renny get into this big argument. They end up going on the block together. They make big targets of themselves. Renny was always somebody that might've been nominated as a pawn anyway. And now instead of going after, uh, going after Memphis, the idea is to go after Jesse.

[00:17:06] Jesse until Jesse wins the first veto competition, uh, which means he's going to be able to pull himself off the block, which means that Dan, Brian and Ollie are going to have to pivot. And they go back to their original plan. Let's get Memphis on the block, uh, and take out Memphis. Um, and everything's going fine, right? Here are where the two problems come in. One, Brian can't really keep his mouth shut.

[00:17:35] Not to save his life at all. He's feeling good and he is not shy about telling other people how good he's feeling. Uh, he starts telling, uh, you know, uh, like, uh, Libra about like, Hey, don't worry about it. I got this covered. Memphis is going up on the block. You're going to have to prepare for that. Uh, and Libra is like, um, excuse me, who do you think you are? Yes.

[00:18:03] And this is why Libra is one of my favorite big brother characters ever is because she is a constant disruptor to whatever the status quo is going to be throughout the entire season. Um, she's not afraid to speak her mind. She's not afraid to flip plans. And she will tell you to her face, even when called out, she'll be like, yeah, I said that.

[00:18:25] Yeah. Yeah. Cause I did feel this way about you. Um, and it's gold. It's just gold because there are some people that appreciate her for this, for that. Like some people like Keisha. And then there are others that are just going to like completely just like be just completely out of sync with her. So her being like sort of like the impetus for this, uh, for this coup that's about to happen is just music to my ears. Love everyone, man.

[00:18:51] We're going to be like, yeah.

[00:19:24] We're going to be like, yeah.

[00:20:24] And so, uh, they start digging. Uh, on, uh, on Brian, they sort of recognize his plan instantly. He just wants to take out the other big guys first. Uh, he thinks he's going to run this show. Uh, and there's another guy that, uh, that they are, that they feel close to Libra and, and April. Uh, and that's Ollie. Um, and that's because Ollie and April are already having like a little bit of a budding flirt man's going on.

[00:20:52] Um, and they start pressing Ollie on like, so what's going on with Brian? Because this is a problem. Um, and initially Ollie is trying to like, you know, do the deflection thing. Uh, the thing that many people who end up in these sort of like brigade, pretty boys type alliances do, which is like, keep the showmance on the outside of knowing about it. But this, these, these, these showman sees, uh, they're not going to just let him, uh, deflect.

[00:21:21] They keep, uh, April in particular keeps, uh, pressing. He eventually spills his guts, um, and caves and gives up Dan and Brian and, uh, decides he's going to go all in on the other side of the house. And of course, all of this happens and, uh, and then it starts to spread around and the consensus becomes with Jesse taking himself off the block. Brian should be going up in his place. This is, there's no like, Oh, well, there's nothing we can do.

[00:21:51] We'll just lose Memphis first. Or like, we'll just vote out Rennie. Uh, we'll deal with it later. You know, we don't want to get in trouble by going to Jerry, the HOH. Like, uh, no, no, they are going to orchestrate, uh, a coup, an intervention. Um, they have, uh, they have distracted Dan and Brian so that they don't know what's happening.

[00:22:16] Uh, and then they all, every other person in the game, go into the HOH room with Jerry, corner him and say, listen, this is what's going on. Brian is playing us all. He thinks he's playing you and you need to put him on the block essentially. And Jerry, despite some initial reluctance, eventually capitulates because, because basically he's terrified.

[00:22:45] Like Lord help me, but this, this is elder abuse. Okay. Like this is reminding me of like when the, the, the rich old guy is about to die. And you have all these vultures that are coming in trying to get a little piece of his will. They're just saying, this is, this is what you need to do. I've been with you. I love you. This is like, this is this. You should leave this to me. I will take care of this for you. That's basically what they did. He didn't want to do it.

[00:23:10] Jerry did not want to do this initially, but he was just like, you got the whole house coming to you saying, do this. And he's like, okay, well then you guys have to, you guys got to protect me. You guys got to make sure that I'm not nominated next because the moment I do this, like then I look like the bad guy here because I already said what I was going to do. And now you guys are making me do something like this is, this is a lot, but I'm, I'm glad that he did.

[00:23:32] I'm glad that he did, uh, eventually because it led to, uh, I think this was like the, the, the greatest appetizer of our first week. I loved it. Yep. So Jesse takes himself off the block and Jerry blindsides Brian, uh, the guy who thought he was running the whole game, uh, gets blindsided backdoored in the first week.

[00:23:55] Uh, and then nearly unanimously voted out, uh, as everyone goes in, he does mount a campaign. Um, and this is really, I think why, uh, ultimately he's remembered fondly, uh, in, in the fan base because. You know, we've seen plenty of, especially on survivor, like flame out first boots, uh, and, and certainly some, some, uh, some flame out first boots on big brother as well.

[00:24:20] Um, and you often go like, oh yeah, that guy or that, that woman, like, oh man, they really screwed up. Um, but Brian is remembered fairly fondly. I think as somebody who had potential because of how effective his campaign was, despite the entire house cornering Jerry and getting him to betray, uh, him and put him on the block in a spot where he was dead to rights. He does manage to muster up almost enough votes to stay.

[00:24:47] Uh, he pulls, uh, you know, he obviously has Dan. He pulls, uh, he pulls Steven. Um, and we, we, we can go in order of eviction to show you. He pulls Steven. He pulls Angie. Uh, you know, he even, you know, has some sway over Keisha. Uh, and all of a sudden it's looking like he might be able to get there, but he's just short. I think he's like a vote or two short.

[00:25:14] Everyone ends up jumping ship except for Dan and Dan casts the sole sympathy vote. Uh, for Brian to stay. Um, of course, uh, I think everyone remembers Brian for his puppet shows and his campaigning. Um, and again, like really remembered as somebody who I think had potential if he had been given more time to, to cook essentially. He was, he was very new to the show. He had only watched, uh, Will and Boogie on season seven. That was his only experience of watching the show.

[00:25:44] And you can see that in how he tried to play the game and how he talked to other people in the game. Um, but I think, you know, potentially given a chance to stew a little bit, maybe would have, you know, been able to do something else. But ultimately that's going to be it for Brian. Yeah. I mean, and, and I thank him once again, because I think that, you know, through his campaigning, he really did sort of set up what eventually becomes a split house situation.

[00:26:09] I think that we all adore BB 10, but I think it's kind of underreported just like how, like, because we're just so used to like the commentating about the chaos of it all. Like, and everybody has an ax to grind in the show, but there is sort of like that, that quintessential split down the middle type deal going on, um, for most of the season. Yes. It's a little bit more fluid than other split houses, but it's still sort of a split house. And a lot of that has to do with Brian and, you know, you know, he, as you mentioned, he did a really good job.

[00:26:38] A lot of his campaigning was very effective to the point where people were openly talking about like, damn, like he's actually out here. Or he could stay, but I think on, you know, because of the fact that there are such intense personalities and people are fighting with other people, specifically in Keisha in April, like it's kind of hard to corral enough votes for you to stay when people are determined to not want to work together as it is.

[00:27:02] So yeah, it was a very fair effort, but no dice, no dice. Yep. Uh, so, and I find this very funny with Dan as the sole vote to keep Brian, uh, Brian leaves the game and, uh, Julie asks him what he thinks of Dan and the fact that he voted for him. And, and Brian says, you know, I, like, I appreciate it, but the, you know, this, I don't think he has it. I don't think he has what it takes. I think he's too soft for the game. Yep.

[00:27:34] Dan's first victim. Very first. Goddamn. Um, and he said Memphis had it a way to takes to go all the way to the end, which is true. He did. He just didn't, you know, snatch the wind. Um, so Jesse wins the next HOH and kicks off the next big sort of rivalry of the season.

[00:27:57] One of the various rivalries Dan accumulates over the course of the season as Dan leverages the fact that he was the sole vote to keep Brian. Uh, as a way of being like, Hey, I'm a loyal guy. Uh, you know, I'm loyal because I was the only one that stuck my neck out and voted to keep Brian in this game. Um, and this argument resonates with the new HOH Jesse, Mr. Pectacular.

[00:28:24] Uh, and he feels like Dan is a guy that he can pull in and use. Now that Brian is gone and that threat has been neutralized. There's still targets, uh, you know, that, that Brian has set up people like Steven and Angie who are on the other side of the house. Now they may have voted Brian out, but they had made it clear the week before that they were on his side anyway.

[00:28:46] Um, and so in a way by Dan voting against the house, he becomes the most trustworthy amongst Brian's original allies, which is wild considering that he was the only one of those allies that was actually in on the strategy talks that got him in trouble in the first place. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's the art of the flip for, for Dan. You can really just take a very, very bad spot.

[00:29:13] And we've seen him do it time and time again, take a really, really bad spot to be in, but make those bad things work for him in the end. Like you are the one person to keep Brian in the house. Everybody else jumps ship, but they still look to you as that example of, well, look what could have happened. And if we all would have stuck together, like it's, it's, you know, it's, it's really good gameplay on his part. Yeah.

[00:29:38] And this is, uh, this is when I really started to notice Dan, like this was the move where I was like, wait a minute, hold on this. That was really smart. Um, because before that all attention was on Brian. And then all of a sudden it was like, hold on this Dan guy. What did he just pull off? Um, now it doesn't keep him off the block, uh, nor does he really try for it to, he basically volunteers. To be nominated.

[00:30:04] Um, and then throws the veto while nominated to ensure that he stays on the block. This is the one and only time in Dan's entire big brother career that he stays on the block for the vote. Um, and he does it on purpose here in week two of big brother 10. He basically does it this once and it's like, Oh, I'm never doing that again. Yeah.

[00:30:27] And that's like, it was so interesting to me because I think there's a lot of commentary, especially with Dan having, um, returned to us on the traders last year. There, there's a lot of commentary about like, can Dan, is Dan's game. The point where it is repeatable. And I think obviously there's a lot of, there's a lot of stroke of genius for the time with Dan.

[00:30:50] Um, but there are also moves that he makes throughout his time in the house, both seasons that he's on where you're like, Oh, I don't know if I would have done that. I don't think that would work today, but I also think with, you know, just by admitting those facts, I think it's just, it goes to the greater point of like, there are things that are not acceptable in big brother today because of the fact that Dan did them first. Right?

[00:31:11] Like he was the person that was willing to stick his neck out and strategically be on the block for something or strategically continue to keep up alive, which we'll get to later on in the season about something. And looking back on it, like that's terrible jury management staying on the block, volunteering to go on the block. That's not good, but it works for him in the time because they weren't frequent strategies yet, but he made them work for him. And that's like, that's like what makes his game so cool to watch in this time. Yeah.

[00:31:41] And this, and that's the thing too. It's, it's like, um, I think that, you know, and, and, and throwing the veto while you're on the block. It's something that very few people have ever done since. Um, but of course there's a very famous example. Our, uh, our good friend, Jordan on big brother, Canada, uh, basically attempted to replicate this move thinking it was a good idea.

[00:32:03] But the problem is of course, and this is no shade to Jordan, but like the people who often try to replicate Dan strategy in particular often crash and burn. And the reason that they crash and burn is because they're not Dan, right? Like Dan strategy worked for him in the way that he did it. But the moves that he made were often very counterintuitive. Uh, like they kind of break the laws of big brother a lot of the time.

[00:32:31] Um, and so you definitely shouldn't take inspiration from the, especially the flashier things that he did, because for most people, this is not what you should do. Do as I say, not as I do. Yeah, no, yeah, for sure. And I think also because like a lot of people that would try to make those moves in the first place post Dan are often super fans of the game.

[00:32:52] And therefore oftentimes are like put into that archetype casting wise as someone that is a Dan or a Steve, um, a Steve or whatever. So I feel like their castmates are already anticipating some type of, oh, this is the guy that's going to think he's the mastermind. Like, so it's just, it just doesn't, it's not going to work again. Like his game is unique and it's fun to watch. It is it repeatable all the time?

[00:33:19] No, but he knew what was going to work when it was going to work. And that's, that's the stroke of genius there. And, and what I find interesting is that there, you know, Dan ultimately is a super fan of the show. Uh, he doesn't present as such in the game, but he is somebody who has studied the game, who has grown up watching and studying the game. And there are elements of all of the established strategies in his game.

[00:33:44] Uh, but none of them sort of play out in the way that they usually do because he takes them and twists them in his own kind of unique ways that feel like they shouldn't work, but then they do. Uh, and this is why I think Dan is so celebrated both strategically and on an entertainment level, because nothing of his, none of his success feels straightforward. Uh, certainly doesn't feel boring.

[00:34:07] Um, and so there's no sort of portion of the audience that's like, ah, yeah, it's impressive, but like, you know, I've seen it a million times or it was impressive, but it was boring. It was like, no, that was flashy and good. Like that's, uh, you know, it just sort of, I think, explain the popularity, uh, from Dan and perhaps then the disappointment of his traders time because, uh, you sort of didn't quite get either one. Um, but, uh, but I'm sure there's plenty to talk about traders, uh, later.

[00:34:36] Um, so Dan and Steven on the block, uh, Jesse, they're easy nominations. Dan basically volunteers. Uh, Steven is a good target for Jesse. The group that sort of came together to take out Brian is still roughly a thing. Um, but there are already starting to be, you know, some cracks, uh, in that, uh, in that facade.

[00:34:59] Uh, and, and Dan is somebody who very, uh, purposely tries to exploit those cracks, um, and create what eventually becomes this split house. Michelle wins this veto does not use it. Uh, Jesse and Michelle really start to, uh, bond. They become a bit of, uh, uh, not a duo per se, but definitely a tight, uh, relationship in the game.

[00:35:21] Um, and, and, and, and as I said, like the, the house starts to feel like it's splitting, uh, into some distinct groups. It's not quite, as I said, like down the middle, like it becomes. Um, but there are pockets of people who get along better than others and who are working with each other more than others. And eventually these, these pockets start to splinter and, uh, separate. Right. Yeah. Michelle and Jesse definitely start to bond a lot more.

[00:35:51] Um, I always wondered like where, like, like how thin of a line it was for the two of them from like being like a bit of a show. Because sometimes it did feel like Michelle was like, you know, I kind of like him more than like, you know, me. So it was just, you know, it was, it was very interesting to me. And then you have, you know, the Keisha and Libra side of things with April also being there. And then by extension, Ollie, but Ollie still kind of has something else going on with some of the guys.

[00:36:21] And it's just a very interesting type of, you know, like you said, not quite split, but definitely people that have decided, I want to talk to this person more than once today. The other person I could give two shits about. Yeah. And so, yeah, you start to see this, this kind of grouping. So like Memphis and Jesse are fairly tight at this point. They're, they're close enough.

[00:36:47] Memphis is kind of in that crew, uh, to some degree. Um, and then yes, you have this trio ish of Keisha, April and Libra, um, who are, yes, the coven, uh, who are doing their own thing. They are eventually going to split apart. And all of this comes down to a couple of weeks from now, which we'll talk about. Um, but these are the seeds of, of this happening. Um, so ultimately the rest of the week is relatively straightforward.

[00:37:17] Um, there is a unanimous vote for Steven to be the second person evicted from the game. Not a single vote cast for Dan. And this is the only, again, the only time in his big brother career that anybody would have the opportunity to vote Dan out of the game. They chose not. Yeah. You know, um, I think Steven ultimately was just one of those people that couldn't really pivot. Um, I think that, you know, you just, you know, he had the stink of Brian on him and that, uh, just was just enough.

[00:37:46] Um, you know, again, one of those things where at the beginning of the season, even as tumultuous as the weeks can be, ultimately people want to land on a consensus. They don't want to be the first person to go. So Brian's got to go. Steven by extension is guilty. So let's just go ahead and make it an easy week and get Steven out of here. That keeps the status quo of the house exactly where most people want it to be.

[00:38:10] So, and again, just goes to show the strength of this cast that Steven feels like a perfectly fine big brother player, uh, who under most circumstances probably would have been, uh, in a decent place to make a deep run. Um, and, and that's pretty much why he was evicted here. Um, he was seen as the strongest player amongst the, the, the other three that had been initially siding with, uh, Brian.

[00:38:38] Um, they, he was like the most physical, he was the most social and connected. And so, you know, that meant Steven had to go. And this is again, play, this again plays into Dan trying to actively play weak. Um, but, uh, but it's just, it's just like a hole that Steven can't dig himself out of sitting next to Dan who seems so much weaker and more loyal and like less socially connected. It was just a no brainer for everyone to vote Steven out here. And, uh, there's not much you can do about it. Yeah. It's interesting.

[00:39:08] Cause like, yeah, like he goes out and tries to, he's a lot more sociable at the time than Dan. Um, and people seem to like him a lot more, but that just ends up being, you know, his downfall. There was even, I was doing a little bit of research on like, cause I wasn't there for the feed. So I did like a little bit of research before the podcast to like, see, you know, if I could find any like tidbits about what was going on at the time.

[00:39:28] And I read that there were even conversations among some of the women at the time as to whether or not Steven actually was gay because the way that he would talk with some of the women, they were like, hold on now. What's going on here? So yeah, it just feels like, you know, he, they just saw him as much of a, much of a bigger threat. So, Hey, gotta go. Yep.

[00:39:51] Uh, so with Steven gone, uh, we head into week three and that is when Keisha is going to win her first HOH. Uh, and, uh, Keisha such, such an interesting player. Of course, she is eventually going to come back for big brother all-stars too, uh, with disappointing results. But, uh, but man in big brother 10, she was a force, uh, for many reasons.

[00:40:19] I just, I can't, I can't get over the stark contrast. I'm sorry to rant for two seconds. I just, to this day, like I understand that people grow, people change, people, people, people, things, life happens. But when we found out that she was going to be on cast, I just had such high hopes. I was, I just wanted so much for her and it just didn't work out. And the fact that her and Memphis were actually aligned for most of this season.

[00:40:46] And he ends up being one of the people that is responsible for her undoing. It's still, and it creates, yes, it's been over a decade since they probably even talked to each other in a serious fashion. But it just, oh, it just grinds my gears to this day. I hate BB22. Important things to note about big brother 22. Keisha is a last minute replacement. She is absolutely not been in the big brother streets, you know, making relationships.

[00:41:15] Certainly was not a pre-gamer. And so was basically shut out of the game instantly in that season. And then even, even with all of that, like, wouldn't have been such an early victim if not for, like, the competition results and, like, Janelle and Case are being safe and so many other things. So, you know, you really, it was an unfortunate set of circumstances.

[00:41:42] But boy, in season 10, is she a presence. And one of the reasons why that this group eventually starts splitting up. So, like Jessie before her, she develops a bit of a relationship with Dan, who is trying to get into her ear and, like, develop this sort of bond and connection to her and her side of things.

[00:42:10] Because she's kind of on the other side of where Jessie was in the game strategically. Over there with Libra. And then you have, like, sort of April a little bit closer over on this side. And then Ollie. And then, you know, it kind of develops over onto the other side where it's Jessie and Michelle. And so, you know, there are some feelings of, like, oh, I don't want to nominate Dan this time. Like, I would rather put Jessie on the block.

[00:42:41] And, you know, things start to get a little messy because she's also going to win the veto. She's not going to use it. And ultimately, Angie has voted out. But, like, very clearly the cracks are here now. And this whole group of people is ready to just, like, explode. Yeah. It's a powder keg.

[00:43:04] Like, you know, I feel like there's, like, a couple inconsequentials on either side that can go. Angie, you know, as much as she was sort of in with the Brian, Stephen, Jessie, Michelle type side of things. I still think that ultimately she's not someone that is considered a big force in the game at this point. But it is like a death knell, essentially. It's like you take Angie out.

[00:43:34] It's like a clear, oh, okay. This game has to start now because who's next after Angie if not me? So this was the beginning of the end. And I think, you know, also other arguments happen throughout the week with what's going on with these veto competitions.

[00:43:56] And Keisha getting, or excuse me, Libra getting into it with Jerry and Renny over calling them old and slow. And it's just, it's starting to build here. Like, people are starting to be like, all right, I'm getting sick of these people. Let's get this shit on the road. Yeah, and so basically for Keisha, this was as light a shot across the bow as she could take.

[00:44:24] That, like, there was this feeling that Angie had sort of sided with the other side of that group. And had been, you know, there was some blame attached to Angie for Stephen's eviction. That, like, maybe it should have been Angie instead of Stephen and stuff like that. And so weeks later.

[00:44:47] And so the idea is that by taking out Angie, you're kind of, like, weakening the other side without having to actually take an actual shot. And you don't put up Dan, you put up Jesse to make sure that Angie goes home here. It's very much like the, you know, we're going to see the physical manifestation of this attitude with Keisha's birthday very shortly.

[00:45:14] Where it's like this, this very fake facade of like, oh yeah, we're still all totally chill and working together. Right? Like, nobody, we're not declaring war. It's Angie. Remember she was attached to Brian. Like, it's not a big deal. But the reality was that they really were trying to take a bit of a shot here. And April was still on board with them at this point.

[00:45:39] So this is all important because the following week after this really breaks apart in some interesting ways. And it's, I think, hard to understand if you just look at where the alliances are, how we get to the end result of next week. Um, but it kind of stems from this little bit of back and forth and specifically April being on the side of Libra and Keisha at this point. Um, that, uh, that all leads to what is about to happen. Yeah.

[00:46:09] Yeah, it is. It all, because I, even my, like as big as a fan as I am, sometimes I forget. I was like, hold on. Why all of a sudden did, cause April was over here. And then all of a sudden, a week later, she's with Michelle and they're arguing about magna cum laude. So like, how did, what happened here? So yeah, this is, but you know, the coven, that's why it's one of my favorite alliances. Because it's just like, y'all hate each other, but y'all love each other, but y'all hate each other. Like, what are y'all doing?

[00:46:36] Like, it's just, it's complete madness. And, you know, and Jesse has a lot of the blame to it as well, because like, you know, he essentially, during Keisha's HOH, was like trying to get Keisha to use this POV and was trying to call out Libra for being the one that, cause they're trying to put it on Angie and Jesse's trying to put it on Libra. And it's just like, it's creating like, at least for April, it's creating like this big tug of war of like, who do I believe? Because I'm hearing things about my own alliance, but also like, can I trust the people that are telling me this?

[00:47:06] Like, it's, it's, it's so crunchy. I love it so much. It's so fun. Yes. So ultimately this is it for Angie. Again, you know, I think the, the two, because there's really only two, I think, forgotten players of the season. And I think they are Steven and Angie, you know, but even then you, you still remember them. You still remember like, oh yeah, Brian's allies at the very least.

[00:47:31] And they were two people who, again, in probably many other seasons are able to get into a good group of people who win a bunch of comps and like make a deep run because they're sociable and they're nice. And like things like play out well for them.

[00:47:49] But in this cast, which is just full of rabid gamers and like dramatic fighters, they ultimately were kind of too normal. Yeah. Yeah. That's what it comes down to. That's what it comes down to, man. Like this is what, what, 2008, 2009. And the gay guy being one of the more understated players in this cast. That should tell you something. Okay.

[00:48:16] Because they were out here casting the gays left and right for the shock value. And the fact that he was not even in the, you don't even think about him like that is this season is a mess, y'all. It's a beautiful mess. Yeah. So it's after Angie's eviction that things really start to kick off because, you know, obviously, you know, Angie is evicted unanimously.

[00:48:40] And so like, because again, you could look at like the, the wiki for this season and be like, oh man, unanimous or near unanimous, unanimous, unanimous. Jeez. Like this must've been a really boring start to the season, but no, uh, there was so much happening. There were so many dramatic fights and the strategic maneuvering was interesting. And again, of course, again, throughout this, you're watching Dan slowly kind of like work his way.

[00:49:04] And this is probably the most under edited Dan will ever be on big brother is these two weeks, uh, or maybe this week in particular week three. Um, because they don't quite know yet. Like, you know, in the first week he was with Brian, he's under edited there as well. And the second week you get his whole stuff with Jesse. He's on the block. He's throwing the veto. So he's, you know, he's shown a lot there in week three, they don't know yet that Dan is like the star of the season. Um, and so they're just kind of like playing out everything that's happening.

[00:49:32] Dan starts to fade into the background slightly, but then we get to week four and he's right back to the forefront. And this is when he becomes the most focused on player of the season. And it starts with the HOH competition, uh, which is of course the classic, uh, the, the wall. Uh, and Dan is going to be giving his like big speech, uh, you know, coaching them up on the wall.

[00:50:01] Uh, you know, uh, there's like, uh, Renny is up there for a while and, uh, and April is just like doing really well. April eventually is going to win this competition. Um, and, uh, in the process is going to promise, uh, Michelle that she, that she and Jesse will be safe for the week.

[00:50:23] Um, and that's important because, and April is again, like on the side of Keisha and, um, and Libra right now to some degree. And Keisha had just put Jesse up on the block. And so there's, you know, this, there's this tension between these two sides. Uh, so April wins. And of course, you know, does end up dominating Jesse, which is contentious. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:50:50] I mean, she's in that position where like having the, the relationship with Ollie has to make her lean towards one way, but she also has to appease her coven mates. Um, because yeah, I mean, ultimately, you know, I think that Jesse, yes, he's a big threat. He's a big threat. He's clearly not afraid to stir the pot. He's a physical competitor.

[00:51:14] Like it's not the worst idea in the world to nominate him, but at the same time, it does put you in this really, really nasty spot where you have to justify your actions to both sides. And you are not a Dan Giesling. You cannot rest on, Oh, I just didn't know what I was doing. I've been bullied this whole time. No, because April, you've been fighting all day. Okay. You have shown that you are someone that cannot be pushed around. So if you were doing this, it has to be for a reason.

[00:51:45] Right. And so the idea here is, you know, Jesse goes up on the block against Memphis. And again, the two of them are like working together. Memphis is kind of, you know, a guy that you could count as a Michelle, uh, Jesse ally, but not as protected by them. Clearly there, he's not quite as tight with them. Um, and, uh, and Jerry is on that side of things to some degree as well.

[00:52:10] Um, but, uh, but, but, uh, but Memphis also has some connections to the other side of the house. Uh, he is a little bit of a little bit of a middle position there. Um, not quite as much as Dan is at this time. Uh, because Dan is sort of like undercover in the middle of both of these groups. Uh, they both think they have Dan at this point and he's throwing everything. So he never has to prove his loyalty. The votes have been unanimous. Uh, so both sides think they have Dan.

[00:52:39] Um, and he, because his like relationships are so like invisible, they can't even really see where they are. You have to remember at this point in the game, Jerry thinks I have Dan. Dan is my guy. Uh, like we've, we've really bonded. Right. Um, so, uh, so Memphis and Jesse go up on the block and, uh, and April is in a position where she is like,

[00:53:07] well, I did promise Jesse safety. We should be voting out Memphis. Um, like that's where things should be. Uh, Jerry of all people wins the, uh, the veto competition does not use the veto. And then things get really, really messy from here. Uh, because April becomes insistent that it has to be Memphis that leaves that Jesse must stay.

[00:53:33] Um, and, uh, and in the meantime, Keisha and Libra are kind of like, but Jesse's right there on the block and he's way more dangerous to us than Memphis is. Um, and you know, then we get a little bit of a, an incident. A little bit of an incident. It was, yes, it was. Keisha's 30th birthday, baby. Keisha's 30th birthday. We love it.

[00:54:02] We love it. I'm pretty sure Amon can recite this entire thing from memory. So man, you want to bring it to people, but when it's brought to you, you go, Oh, okay. Okay. I'm tired of you, Jesse. It's over, Jesse. I know exactly what I said. And I told it to April and you're running in here back and forth. It's over. It's over. It's over and out. They would have heard me around the corner, Jesse. Believe me. They would have heard me around the corner. It's apparent that you started shit that you can't finish.

[00:54:33] It's over and out. Conversation ended. Oh boy. It was singing happy birthday to Keisha. I know exactly what I said. Yeah, I said it. Yeah. Yeah. Because your ear, your, your, your, your ear wasn't at the door like probably normal. So this is, this is widely considered to be the best fight in big brother history. Uh, and it's, it's, it's quite a marathon as well.

[00:55:00] Like it really, it has legs. Um, Jesse is trying to start some stuff. Uh, he's going to overhear, uh, some conversations, um, that, uh, that he thinks that he can then bring to, uh, to some other people in the house that would ultimately help him stay in the game.

[00:55:24] Um, but of course, when he brings this information, uh, it causes a bunch of drama to happen. And this is really the inciting, uh, cause of like cementing Keisha and Libra against Jesse and, and for Memphis while at the same time kind of cementing, uh, Jesse, you know, for April to want Jesse to stay. Like Jesse's causing all this, this drama. Um, and you know, there's, there were like, you know, there's a little bit, a little bit

[00:55:54] of talk, a little bit of gossip happening, um, between the coven members. Um, and the, the mistrust that's kind of been building up over the course of the last couple of weeks, kind of all bubbles out. Um, and you know, uh, it all comes out, it all comes out in one big argument. Um, and, uh, you know, it happens to be on somebody's birthday. Yeah.

[00:56:22] You know, Jesse did a good job here. I mean, I must say, I mean, I think that he was observant enough to know that there is dissents within this power structure with Keisha and Libra and April and went ahead and told April that Keisha and Libra were talking shit. And then because April is, pardon me, because April is who she is.

[00:56:48] She goes to Libra in April and says, this is what I heard by the way Jesse said it. And then they just, it just erupts, it erupts. And Jesse was this close to surviving that vote. He really was. But of course America's vote, you know, America's player in Dan had to vote him out. And so I just, I just wonder what this season looks like. Had that not happened.

[00:57:17] Had Jesse stayed in that house after that big ass blow up. Oh my God. Oh my God. So, so here's, so here's what happens, right? Uh, with, with the, with the lines are again, the cracks are already starting to form in the coven. Um, you know, April is really starting to feel like she can work with, uh, Michelle and Jesse. She made that deal with them and she wants to keep Jesse safe. She wants Memphis gone. She doesn't have as good a relationship with Memphis.

[00:57:47] In the meantime, April, uh, or sorry, uh, Keisha and Libra are feeling like we do have a better relationship with Memphis than we do. Uh, Jesse, Jesse is a bigger threat. And so, you know, already they're starting to have those conversations about like, how do we like, what are we doing with April? Um, and then of course, Jesse is able to overhear some of this. He blows it up. Um, and they get into this massive argument and it splits the house. It makes these cracks form into like big, uh, yeah, chasms.

[00:58:15] Um, and, uh, and all of a sudden the vote is split because Keisha and Libra and, uh, Rennie all want Jesse to go and they want Memphis to stay. Um, but Michelle and Jerry, uh, and Ollie want Jesse to stay and for Memphis to go.

[00:58:37] And just like that, it's three votes for Jesse to leave three votes for, uh, Memphis to leave. And wouldn't you know it who's left in the middle? One Dan Giesling who both sides feel confident they have on board. Woo. Woo.

[00:59:03] And to make matters worse, as I'm on implies, Dan is not even in control of his vote this week because. After the, uh, you know, between him doing the whole thing with Jesse, uh, like being like, Oh, I'm a loyal player. And then the big speech during the HOH competition, the fans are really started to warm to Dan and they have voted for Dan to become for one week America's player.

[00:59:33] Um, and this is already continuing to endear the audience to Dan as he has a task to hug Jesse, uh, for an extended period of time, uh, because of, you know, it's Jesse and the audience doesn't like Jesse cause he's a heel. Um, and, uh, and so this, this is, you know, ultimately Dan is always a vote to keep Memphis. Uh, if the audience has no say, Dan was always voting to keep Memphis.

[01:00:00] Uh, the thing that the America's player twist changes is that Dan has to play both sides up until the very moment of the vote because he doesn't know for sure which way he's going. So he has to continue to play into the April, uh, Michelle, Jesse, Jerry, Ollie side of things in case the audience forces him to vote out Memphis. And then he's like, see, I was with you the whole time.

[01:00:28] I did what I said I would and vice versa, uh, with, you know, with Keisha and Renny and, and Libra and Memphis. Um, and so he, he, he has to up until he walks into the diary room to vote, pretend like he's on both sides in the event that he ends up on that side. Um, and this causes some additional tension when it happens.

[01:00:54] Now it's important to note that Dan has been developing a relationship with Memphis, uh, on the side here. Um, as I mentioned, Memphis was somebody who was kind of in the middle. Um, Dan was very much in the middle and the two of them start to kind of bond over not being super tightly connected to anybody else in the game. Um, of course, after this move, Dan is going to really like leverage the fact that he was the sole saving vote for Memphis to stay to lock in that relationship.

[01:01:23] But he already had a very good relationship with Memphis. He already had a good relationship with Jesse at that point, but Jesse was too well connected elsewhere, whereas Memphis didn't have as many of those connections. So it made more sense for Dan to keep Memphis. Uh, he is also begging the audience, please, please don't vote out Memphis. Please vote out Jesse. Um, and so, uh, ultimately they come through, but all again, all throughout this week, you

[01:01:50] start the, the, it's not lost on both sides, even though they think, oh, well, Dan is promising us he's with us. There was a lot of hesitation. There was a lot of like, but is he like, this is, this is Dan. Like he's a loyal guy. So he's going to stick to his word, but like, you know, we're not that close to him. Uh, like, and then he's, he's talking to these other people and you have people like Jerry who is going, nah, don't worry. Don't worry about Dan. I he's, he's sworn to me. I've got Dan.

[01:02:19] Jerry feels like he's worked on Dan and he's got the relationship and Dan is not going to break his word. And he's a loyal guy. And Jesse's like, yeah, Dan's a loyal guy. He's going to vote for me. Uh, and Dan is actually closer to Keisha, uh, and Libra and their side of things in terms of like who he would prefer to work with beyond just Memphis. Um, and so he's promising them and they're like, I think we, we think we trust Dan. He seems to like us, but like, you know, hopefully it fall, it follows through.

[01:02:46] Um, and so of course Dan does enter that voting booth, that diary room. He finds out that he has in fact cast his vote to evict Jesse. Uh, and he is very pleased. Um, and the vote comes in, Jesse is evicted and the rest of the house is very not pleased. Woo. Put down that Bible, put down that cross, baby.

[01:03:19] Michelle and Jerry. Waterman and Ollie and April. Everybody is, is pissed as hell. And I always found it so interesting that like, and again, this is just goes to show just like how well of a game or, um, what, what good a move, you know, uh, Dan made here and just sort of wanting to sort of just play dead.

[01:03:45] But like all of the fighting is going on between people that you knew you couldn't count on for a vote. Like, why are y'all mad at Keisha and Libra when y'all were just arguing over a cookie cake about Jesse? Y'all should be mad at them. Y'all knew they weren't going to vote to keep Jesse. Like it should not be a surprise. But where is Dan? Dan, I don't know. Somewhere under a blanket. Okay.

[01:04:14] They are quite upset with Dan. Uh, and they really go in on him, but Dan has no interest in rising to any arguments. Uh, but I guess, well, it's, let's first, uh, finish off, uh, talking about Jesse here because I mean, what a character. Um, this is going to be the first of two appearances on the show where he is ostensibly screwed by America. Um, the next season, it's going to be much worse than this one.

[01:04:42] Uh, but, uh, it's very funny that it happened twice. Um, I mean, he's, he is very good TV and big brother loves him. I think for good reason. Um, I've heard good things about his appearance on house of villains that he was very entertaining there as well. Uh, more recently. Um, but, uh, you know, he, he, he, you couldn't find a better spot for him to leave the game.

[01:05:08] Um, and he is so mad at Dan, um, after he is evicted. Uh, so mad in fact, that I think, uh, to this day, he is about the same level of mad at Dan, if not more so. It's like, it's your word, man. It's your word. You went back on your word. That's the, you got to deal with that, man. It's your word. It's like, uh, does he even go to church?

[01:05:34] They were, yo, they tore Dan up over that religion. They really did. And I love the fact that there were a few people in the house that were like, oh, uh, come on y'all. It's a game. Come on. Like, let's, let's take the temperature down a bit. But yeah, they, I mean, this is the first time that, you know, Dan really has a, you know, I guess not the first time that he showed his cards because, you know, he showed

[01:05:57] his cards with Brian, but like in a real, real way, like this was like Jesse as a, as a target was just so juicy that no matter what side of it you're on, you are making a statement here. And while it necessarily wasn't all just his statement because America made him do it, it was a statement nonetheless. So, and like you said, he would have done it anyway because he wants Memphis in the house. So yeah, this, uh, this was quite the blind side.

[01:06:26] But it's his, it's his first big pivot in the game. Um, he's been playing up, uh, two main cards for the first section of this game after the, after the first week. One is that he's a weak player. The other is that he's a loyal player. And, uh, with this move, he has now destroyed the image that he is a loyal player. Um, and so the only thing he has left at this time to keep him safe is that he is a weak player.

[01:06:52] Um, and he's going to immediately need that because the next winner of the HOH immediately following Jesse's eviction is his closest ally, Michelle, who after winning dedicates her win to Jesse and says, don't worry, I'll get him. I'm going to get them. I'm going to get them. That was for you, Jesse. I'm going to get them all night. I stayed up. I practiced every single, I knew every single image.

[01:07:24] Yeah. Um, so, uh, it blows up into a massive argument once again. Uh, again, lots of heat on Dan. Dan is going to do the, uh, his famous sort of like run to the bed, put a pillow over, over his head, uh, like play dead kind of thing, which, which works because as you mentioned him on the rest of the house just continues arguing without him.

[01:07:51] Um, and, uh, and of course, Michelle comes in, uh, to talk to Dan while he's doing this and she's like, why'd you do it, Dan? He's like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I screwed up. Like, uh, again, playing up weakness, playing up like, oh, I've been manipulated by the other side into doing this essentially. And it's so good because like the first time, you know, he was one of the odd went out.

[01:08:16] Like he, he voted to, you know, to, to, to, to, to keep, uh, what's his face. And now it's like, okay, well, I don't want to do this anymore. So I guess I just, I have to, I have to, I have to concede to the powers that be. I don't know what to do. This is, this is all that I can do. And Michelle is such good TV and the commission is like, Dan, why'd you do it? Dan, Dan, no, like, it's okay. It's okay. We're, you know, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to make this work.

[01:08:44] Even after she was just out there in the living room with Jerry ripping him a new one saying, well, he's probably burning somewhere. He's burning because you know, he got put down that Bible, put down that cross. And then you come in here and you're like, Dan, it's okay. Dan, why? Dan, why? Why father Dan? Like, it's just so, it's so good. And you can see why, right? Like the idea is that, uh, and she says this too. She's like, Dan, they used you. Like they used you for your vote.

[01:09:12] They hung you out to dry. Uh, you are not connected to them. Like they are connected to each other. And that is true to some degree. The reality is that Dan kind of used them. Um, and we'll continue to use them, but she, but they, they, none of the house sees it that way. None of the, nobody in the house sees that he is developing this relationship to Memphis. And nobody sees, uh, that he is like able to then pivot and use Keisha's side as a shield.

[01:09:41] Um, because even Keisha's side is like, ah, damn, like Dan's taking all this heat for us. Like we feel so bad. He did that for us. Yeah. And now he's getting like, they're talking about his religion. Like we feel so bad about this. And Dan is in the diary room saying, ah, man, this is, this really couldn't have gone any better for me. Oh my God. Yep. Yep. It's, it's, it's so good.

[01:10:11] It's so good because, and I, and I, what I love the most about Michelle is that she, she really was pissed at him. Like, and this just, this goes to show just like the strength of Dan's game once again, because she was pissed off. She was mad. Her, like Jerry completely, as we'll see later on, you know, gives him a certain moniker.

[01:10:31] That's how pissed off he was, but she was still willing to go after other people because she deemed them the real enemy. Not Dan. Which is like the smart move. Except when it's Dan. Except when it's Dan. Except when it's Dan, because Dan doesn't care about anybody in the context of big brother except himself. And the sooner that people are to realize that the better off you will be.

[01:10:57] Otherwise you're going to get lulled into this reality that he constructs about being weak, about, you know, whatever have you. And, uh, she, she bought it. A whole clock in singer. Like, you know, and like you said, it's not, it's not the worst move to go after who she eventually goes after. Sure. It's not, but. Like you said, you're leaving Dan sitting right there. So.

[01:11:21] It's wild how much of Dan's big brother 10 game was so like the biggest strength he had was controlling perception of who he was. And the fact that he was able to completely remain under the radar. Because again, from Michelle's perspective, if Dan is the player she thinks he is, if Dan is the player that everyone in the game at that point thought he was, she's making a great play here. She's stuffing down her own emotions of feeling betrayed and annoyed at Dan.

[01:11:50] And she's saying, listen, if he can be manipulated to one side, maybe I can manipulate him to my side. I'm not going to waste my HOH taking out the solo Dan when there's still another side of the house I need to deal with. So let me try to do my best to win him back to my side so that I can use him as a number and then whittle down the other side. Then we can get rid of him eventually. Like that is ostensibly like the right thing to do. If, if your read on Dan is correct, but it's not.

[01:12:19] And what's wild about that for Dan is that, uh, he comes back and everyone knows who he is and he still manages to find success. That is the, it's wild, right? Um, but this is where things are. Uh, Michelle is going to, uh, to target Keisha and Libra, uh, put them on the block. Um, Jerry wins his second veto in a row. Come on, Jerry.

[01:12:46] Jerry, unlike Michelle is not willing to, uh, put his feelings aside. Jerry is so mad at Dan. Um, and he is desperate, desperate to use this veto so that Michelle will put Dan on the block. But Michelle is saying, no, no, no, I'm not putting down on the block. Do not use this veto. Um, but, but, but Jerry is so mad because he has been like, again, you have to, you have to,

[01:13:14] like, look at this from Jerry's perspective, at least just like, just from the game perspective alone. He initially felt weird about Dan from day one. He was like the dokes to Dan's Dexter. Um, and was like this guy, there's something off about this guy. Uh, and he felt like he wanted to nominate Dan as a, as a pawn initially in that first week. He's talked out of it by Brian. Um, and then turns out Brian's a snake and Dan's been working with him and oh my God. Right.

[01:13:44] Uh, but Hey, Dan, he's this weak guy. And you know, he, uh, he, he, he voted for Brian to stay. He showed that loyalty that I didn't. Um, and, uh, and you know, here he is, he's saying good morning to me every day. And, uh, you know, like he had the very least he's this religious loyal guy. Um, I'm going to make sure he votes with us. He's promising me the vote. I'm sticking my neck out. I'm saying, don't worry guys. I got this. This is on me. I've got Dan's vote. Then Dan doesn't follow through. He doesn't vote.

[01:14:13] This feels like a personal betrayal, a personal insult to Jerry who, who like is not only betrayed by Dan, but embarrassed that he trusted Dan, that he vouched for Dan's vote. Um, and he's been made to look like a fool. And, uh, you know, on top of it all is the, you know, they're pissed about the religion stuff. Like you're acting like you're this pious, like loyal, honest guy. And here you are betraying us.

[01:14:40] You know what, Dan, you are always Judas to me. You'll always be Judas in my house. You're a good hoe. But he can't do anything about it because nobody else agrees with him. Nobody else wants Dan out this week. And so he is forced to not use the veto. And it keeps Keisha and Libra on the block. It's just so funny to me because he tells, he tells Keisha and Libra straight up. Y'all would not have been my choice.

[01:15:06] Although like 10, like three days ago, you were going to town on the both. Like, low honors. Ironically, it's Jerry's vitriol that is so beneficial to Dan's position in the game. Because if you're Keisha and Libra, you should be kind of annoyed. You should be kind of like, damn it. Why aren't they going after Dan?

[01:15:32] But with Jerry so gung ho about being pissed at Dan and people still feeling bad about that. Like, dude, Jerry, you went too far, man. Like, you have Keisha and Libra sitting on the block and feeling bad for Dan, who's off the block. It's giving very much BB20 when Tyler got nominated by the hacker. It's giving very much that. It's just, like you said, just, you know, perception is everything in the Big Brother house.

[01:16:01] Perception is reality. And if you are the master of how you are perceived, it's, you know, the best offense is good defense, right? So I just think that, yeah, it's just he wanted to respect Michelle's wishes. He knew that he didn't really have anybody else to back him up because everyone, no matter what side you're on, it's either they manipulated Dan, so it's not his fault, or I manipulated Dan, so it's not his fault.

[01:16:29] So it's just like, you know, either way, he is manipulatable, so we can save him for another day. Keep Keisha and Libra on that block, and let's just keep pushing. And this is a brutal result for Libra because she has been a massive force in the game, has been a huge driver of strategy,

[01:16:56] was the reason that the entire house flipped on Brian in the first place, and is a really strong player, and makes significant leeway for her campaign. It starts getting the other side of the house wanting to keep her over Keisha. And once again, it kind of comes down to Dan, as they're all of a sudden, once again, being like, so Dan, we kind of need your vote if we want to keep Libra.

[01:17:27] And unfortunately for Libra, Dan was closer to Keisha. And of course, saw a way forward with Keisha in the game that made a lot of sense for him. And so without Dan's support, Libra is not able to stay in the game, and is ultimately evicted unanimously because they knew they didn't have the numbers. But, you know, that's going to be it for Libra.

[01:17:55] Gone too soon, but that's how you kind of feel about most players, but especially Libra. Yeah, for sure. Players in this season, I should say. Yeah, almost everyone, when they go, it's like, damn. Like, I just want a little bit more. Just give me a little bit more. And Michelle was just, she was a dog with a bone when it came to Libra as well, because as you mentioned, like Libra was, she was a driving force behind a lot of what was going on in the house. And they have another big ass fight one night.

[01:18:24] Her, Keisha, or not Keisha, Keisha was in the DR at the time. Her and Libra and Michelle Libra and April had a fight about the whole Angie thing again, about the whole Steven thing again, and who was responsible for that. And Michelle's whole point was that every time you have a target Libra, that person goes home. You are the person that is in control. And Libra is like, girl, like, you are giving me a lot of credit.

[01:18:54] I am not the only one that did this. You're making it seem like it was just me. It wasn't just me. Everybody else had to vote. I can't control everybody's votes. But Michelle was just like, nah, nope, nope, nope. Because you're the most vocal. And to a degree, Michelle was right. Like, Libra was not afraid to talk about who she wanted out and when she wanted them out. And those people did go home. Was it all Libra? No. But was she the impetus a lot of the time?

[01:19:24] Yeah. So, you know, gotta go, sweetheart. Gotta go. But I was sad to see her go. Libra remains one of my favorite people to play Big Brother ever. She's just so fun to watch. So fun. Libra is absolutely somebody I wish we had seen back and that I hope we will someday see back. But she's also the kind of person that's like, she's probably successful and good for the show. Yeah, she's so done with this shit. She is like, all right, that was a time. I had my moment. I'm good.

[01:19:54] So that's it for Libra. It's going to be Rennie that wins the next HOH. And now, again, throughout all of this, I should mention that behind the scenes, Dan and Memphis have been talking a lot. Now, they'd been bonding even before the vote to keep Memphis, but especially after the vote to keep Memphis. You know, they kept this under wraps so that nobody really saw this happening.

[01:20:21] But they were like Memphis in particular felt the worst, I think, for Dan. Because for him, it was like Dan stuck his neck out for me. Now he's taking all this heat. And he was like in the diary. I'm like, this is so stupid. I can't believe they're going after his religion. Like, this is so annoying. And Dan really leveraged that to really lock in the bond he had with Memphis. And they create the secret alliance known as the Renegades.

[01:20:53] And it is them that decides this vote to keep Keisha over Libra. And when Rennie wins this next HOH, it makes so much sense that they basically are able to lock in this group of themselves, Keisha and Rennie. And it's important to note that, like, again, Dan is using a lot of the strategy that has been built to this point.

[01:21:23] So, like, the secret alliance with the Renegades. Prior to that, he'd really been floating like June had, you know, sort of back and forth between two sides, depending on who was in power. Encouraging rifts between two sides to split the house. And then ultimately, like, the secret duo, sort of again like June. A lot of people don't recognize the connections between June and Dan and their games. But, like, there's a lot there.

[01:21:47] But here is sort of, like, basically improving on the Legion of Doom formula that Dr. Will and Danielle had attempted in Big Brother All-Stars. Where it was essentially two duos coming together in a secret four-person alliance. That's what they brought together with this alliance with Rennie, Keisha, and the Renegades.

[01:22:13] But what Dan and Memphis did was they hid the fact that they were a duo. And they allowed Keisha and Rennie to feel like they had these two guys who were separate. Who both came to them from individual relationships. You know, Keisha already had a bond with Memphis. Keisha already had a bond with Dan. And they didn't see that Dan and Memphis were bonded together. So, from their perspective, it was their duo plus Dan plus Memphis. And they were in the center of it.

[01:22:41] Which let them feel very, very comfortable going deep with these two guys. And outside of that, they kept the four of them a secret from the other side of the house in the first place. You knew that Keisha and Rennie were tight. You kind of knew that Memphis was attached to them to some degree. But Memphis was also close to Michelle still. Remember, Memphis had nothing to do with the Jesse vote. He was voted on the block. They voted for him to stay.

[01:23:07] But from the perspective of the other side of the house, Memphis was still on their side. It was just that the other side really wanted Jesse out. So, and I forgot to mention this, but like when Michelle was HOH, Dan was, again, leveraging that he saved Memphis. Going to Memphis saying, hey, I really need you to help me out with Michelle here. Because Memphis still had a really good relationship with Michelle. Doing the same thing he did with Brian. Using the connections that he does have to influence people that he doesn't have as much of a connection with.

[01:23:37] And so, so all of this is happening. And these four are able to have this loose, this tight group that is secret. And then they have a secret structure within the group. And Rennie wins this next HOH. She is going to put April and Jerry on the block. Dan is going to win the veto. And they're going to send April out the door. That is going to be the end of April. And I, was it this week?

[01:24:07] One of the weeks. Maybe it was earlier on that Jerry falls in the pool. But. I feel like it might have been the next week. I can't remember for sure. It was around this time. You're definitely right that it's like around this time. I can't remember for sure. Because I just watched. Yeah, very classic. Classic, classic moment. Yeah, you know, April.

[01:24:36] You know, sort of. Served the purpose that she had at the time being. I think she's one of those people that. You know, the. Memphis. Dan. Jerry side of things. Saw as like a means to an end for a moment. But then like once that. Once she did what she needed to do in terms of like trying to defend Jesse. That was kind of it for her.

[01:25:03] And on top of the fact that, you know, she's in a showmance with Ollie. So breaking them up at some point had to be. It had to be done. So. Yeah. You know, very appropriate that she leaves. Right after. Right after Libra. That was very fun. So. Yeah. And she was the one that Rennie really wanted out this week. She was, you know, kind of like. Yeah.

[01:25:32] And I can see why. I think she's probably the most powerful feeling figure on the other side at this point. You know, having having just been in power the couple weeks before. You know, you could maybe look at Michelle, but. But I think Rennie felt like she had a decent enough relationship with with like Michelle and them that she felt like I can just snipe out April.

[01:25:57] In fact, she was originally thinking that like, hey, maybe I should put up Dan or Memphis as a pawn against April so that I don't have to put up somebody will be mad at me. Ultimately, ultimately down and puts up Jerry instead. And and of course, that's going to be it for for April, who, you know, especially up against, you know, Jerry is not really in a spot where she can stay.

[01:26:25] Dan does also, of course, debate using this veto to to to get Jerry off the block. I think Dan has that sort of like showman sort of gene where he thinks it would be really funny if he veto vetoes Jerry off the block after everything and get all the up on the block so that it's all in April.

[01:26:46] Something to to remember about Dan, especially in this season, is that like he never forgot that first week and the fact that all we betrayed them. He really felt like he could trust Ali. And this is maybe one of his like biggest misreads that, you know, in his big brother career that he really thought that Ali was like a trustworthy guy that would not betray them to the point where after Brian is nominated by Jerry, he goes. I thought you would do it to me, man.

[01:27:16] Not Ali. Yeah. So for Ali to go up here. But we professed only about Ali, too, because I remember when that whole blow up happened after the whole like Jesse blindside and he has the misfortune, misfortunate choice of calling Libra a scallywag and ho. I remember Libra talking to him later on to be like, you know, I expected the rest of them to come after me like that, but never you.

[01:27:46] What was that about? That was crazy. I guess all we just comes off as a trustworthy guy. What can I say? Well, that, of course, brings us to the next endurance competition. And it's another classic because it's going to be it's going to come down to Ali versus Dan. And they're both hanging up there, swinging, swinging around. And Dan is going to make a deal with Ali.

[01:28:16] The deal is if you drop and let me become the H.O.H., I will allow you to choose the nominees. And, you know, a little bit of like a Jennifer Kaser kind of kind of deal being made. And, you know. And, you know. For some reason.

[01:28:44] Ali feels like this will work out now. The reason is that Ali doesn't know how close Dan is with Memphis. Ali doesn't know how close Dan is with Keisha and Renny. Like, in Ali's mind, Dan is still on his own. Just a rogue element. And even though he, you know, betrayed them when he voted Jesse out. And Jerry was really pissed about that. He still had this reputation for like sticking to his word.

[01:29:14] He never really like. I don't think Ali felt like Dan specifically betrayed him or lied to him in that spot. And so there was this idea that like, yeah, there's there's reason to believe that Dan would follow through on this. And, you know, Ali feels very confident that he's like, you know, I might not be wearing the key around my neck. But I'm the real H.O.H. this week.

[01:29:38] It was just it's so weird for me with Ali, because like your girlfriend just got voted out. Like, you were not in the position to not want to win something. And you could have won that H.O.H. Like, you were sitting pretty. Y'all could have gone on for hours on those little balls. Like it was I don't understand it. But then again, this is like what we were saying at the top of the show.

[01:30:06] Just about how some of these tactics that Dan will use, maybe they don't necessarily work nowadays in Big Brother. But at the time, he knew who he was talking to and how to talk to them and what was going to work. And promising Ali. A nomination is. Enough for him.

[01:30:27] And of course, Ali's first thing is to say, I want Memphis on the block and not knowing at all about any of the of the relationships that Dan has. Mm hmm. Yeah, it's it's wild. And this is like another point where Dan has to pivot in the perception. He actually says in the diary, I'm like this playing week stuff. It's it's played out. It's time to change tactics. He had won the veto before.

[01:30:55] Or he's he's desperate to win this H.O.H. Now it's time to start winning things. It's the end game. Um, and you knew that like by winning shit, like you can't you can no longer continue to be weak. Like no one's going to buy that anymore. You have to exactly start. So. So, uh, I think what's very funny about this is that, like, you really expect Ali to immediately get burned, just like Kacer was just like pretty much anybody who's ever made a deal on the wall is they're just always immediately burned by it.

[01:31:23] Uh, but in this instance, Ali feels good even through the nominations because Dan does nominate Memphis up next to Jerry. Yes, he does. And this is, again, another one of those moves that's like I would never in a million years advocate that you do this. Uh, do not nominate your ally. Nominating your ally. Huh?

[01:31:53] And Memphis, like, yes, obviously he wasn't happy. But even in that you got nominated by Dan, right? Like you got nominated by your by the your renegade, your your renegade brother. And you still went along with whatever plan Dan had set in front of you because you still trust him even after being nominated. It's just it's.

[01:32:21] Memphis Memphis is nominated three times in Big Brother 10. Two of them. Were by Dan. Oh, man. Okay. So the idea here is. Is it's very important and it does pay off in a way that is very effective.

[01:32:50] He's hiding his relationship with Memphis. He's saying, sure, I will agree to nominate Memphis, who in their right mind, if they were aligned with Memphis, would follow through on this. And Memphis is pissed for real, which allows him to very easily play up the fact that he's pissed. And so this helps them both outside of the alliance for perception and inside of the alliance for perception because nobody believes that they're working together. Yeah.

[01:33:19] Now, there are there are plenty of contingencies here. If Memphis does, for whatever reason, stay on the block, he has the votes to keep Memphis safe. It's actually like if you look at it, it's a pretty locked in position. Something would have to go very, very wrong for Memphis to leave because even if the nominations stay the same or if Jerry wins the veto, whatever the case may be, he should always have Keisha and Rennie as votes to keep Memphis.

[01:33:43] And he should always then be able to break any tie to evict whoever Memphis is sitting next to. So the risks here aren't actually that big, but it's still a move that's like, why would you ever take such a risk? And it's for greater payoff later down the line. Memphis ends up winning the veto, negating having to do any of that.

[01:34:10] And this is when Dan really gets wild because now that Memphis is safe, he goes back to Ollie and he says, oh, Ollie, I mean, I did what you wanted. Now Memphis won the veto. What should we do? Who do you want me to nominate? Um, and of course, Ollie is now like, well, you know, I want you to nominate Keisha. And so Dan is, of course, able to go back to Keisha and be like, man, Ollie wants me to nominate you.

[01:34:42] Yeah. Yeah. And through that, he then orchestrates what is known as replacement nominee roulette, where he is going to go around the circle at the veto ceremony and ask everyone who they would like to see nominated. Um, he gets some hesitation, uh, before getting some buy-in from, uh, from pretty much everyone.

[01:35:07] But, uh, it's, it's almost like, um, if you recall, uh, big brother 19, when, uh, when Paul orchestrates the, everyone to throw the HOH to Christmas and it has to fall in a specific line. Yes. Basically, he's able to pull one person and then using that person, he's able to be like, well, hey, did you know that, uh, this person said your name? And then it's like, well, if they said my name, I'll say their name.

[01:35:33] Um, and so he gets this to happen, uh, and, and he plays replacement nominee roulette, uh, as he prepares to blindside Michelle, uh, in the, uh, in the, uh, in the veto ceremony. Yeah, it's shades of the, uh, BB19 Paul HOH. It's shades of Tim Dormer and BBCAN 4.

[01:35:57] It's just, and the, at least the only person in the edited cut, um, cause again, I wasn't there for feeds. The only person that seemed to call him out on his BS, um, was Rennie that was like, this is a cop-out. You are basically trying to make it seem like we are the ones that are doing these nominations instead of you. And still at the end of that conversation, she's like, okay, fine, I'll do it.

[01:36:24] I'll say whoever, whatever name that you want me to say, because again, while this is not a repeatable strategy at all, in the moment it works because what else are they going to do? This is the first time that someone has like really tried to play the game in this fashion. And I think in their minds back then, it's like, well, you're HOH, so whatever you say goes. So like, you know, I don't want to be the one that goes home, so I'm just going to go ahead and play your game.

[01:36:50] And it's like, you don't have to, but I guess in their minds, it's easier to do so, so that they are not the one that goes up. And it's just the perfect ammo to send whomever Dan wants to send home. And he gives this big speech about playing games and gambling, and you better know who's playing for you.

[01:37:12] Michelle goes sit on the block, drops a bomb, walks away in slow-mo, putting on his shades. And the house erupts again. They're pissed. Ollie's pissed. Michelle is pissed. Like, what? Why me? And this is the thing too. Like, you know, and it's like a fairly simple thing, but like Michelle is at least a little bit annoyed with Ollie. Like, why am I getting this on when it's Ollie's fault?

[01:37:44] And they're mad. And Dan just leaves, as he does, which leans, they're ending up arguing with Keisha and Renny over this. And they're like, how could you? Did you know? Dan made a deal. And he didn't follow through on the deal. And Keisha's just like, why am I supposed to be mad about that? If he followed through on the deal, he wanted me nominated. Yeah, but he's a liar. Yeah. And I'm glad that Ollie, like, again, because it was Renny first.

[01:38:11] And then after the fact, Ollie was like trying to like get Dan in on the conversation. Like, you lied to me. Like, we had a deal. And you went back on that deal. And Dan's like, well, I just don't feel like I need to talk about this right now. He's like, where are you going, Dan? Where are you? They continue to argue with one another. Like, it's just like. They need to get it out. They need to argue with someone.

[01:38:39] And if Dan refuses to engage, they end up arguing with someone else. It's wild that this strategy isn't utilized more often because I think it's very effective. It's just divide and conquer. Yeah. Tried and true, baby. So, Michelle ends up voted out here by a vote of three to one. Memphis, Keisha and Renny against Ollie's sole vote to keep Jerry or to evict Jerry, I should say.

[01:39:12] And this is immediately followed up by a double eviction where Keisha wins the HOH in a very clutch win. It nominates Jerry and Ollie. Dan wins the veto. And Ollie is going to follow behind Michelle. Right. Right out. Right. Right back to back. Yeah. Yeah. Very.

[01:39:32] This was a perfect week for Dan because, you know, you're able to get out the guy that you just screwed over the same week that you screw over Michelle. Very, just very clutch. Him and Memphis managed to stay off and stay in the house. It's just. It's just very lucky that it pans out this way for them. Yeah. I mean, it was a big gamble because, you know, there was that other side of the house. That he needed to break through.

[01:40:01] He had such a good setup with this group of four. He takes out Michelle as, you know, probably their strongest competitor left. Ollie hasn't really won anything to this point. Michelle has. And he's just banking on the fact that Ollie is not going to win this next one. If Ollie does win this next one, he, of course, has his outs between the veto and the vote. He has a few different outs.

[01:40:26] But it's definitely probably the biggest break that Dan has in the season that that this double eviction goes the way he wants, even though the odds were still in his favor here in the first place. But that's it for Michelle and Ollie. Two very entertaining cast members for different reasons. And Michelle, again, another player I can't believe hasn't been back. Just so good.

[01:40:56] Her wearing the unitard after, you know, her vacation is stolen from her by Libra. You know, her being pissed about Jesse's eviction. The whole thing is that Libra deserved to have her kids taken away because. Because she went back on her word and stole the damn vacation from her. To this day, I still can't. Like, girl, you're off big brother.

[01:41:23] You thought that someone wasn't going to want to take the vacation instead of like whatever punishment they had. Like, what are you like? Michelle is just so I and her heavy ass, thick ass Boston accent just made everything that came out of her mouth that much more satisfying. It's just she was truly, truly a character. Loved her to bits for sure. So classic, classic stuff for Michelle.

[01:41:52] Ollie, we've talked plenty about, but definitely served his purpose in the season. And let me tell you something about Ollie and April. Now, I knew. That they were getting down in the house. I knew that there is a bit of it on if you search hard enough, you'll find a little bit of footage. What I didn't know. And so researching for this podcast is how frequent that getting down was. Okay.

[01:42:21] And how close to other people, specifically Jerry, that they were doing it. They were like rabbits. Like, I had no idea. No, I'm not naive enough to believe that it was just one time. But when I was going through those last feed updates and I just kept seeing they needed their own. They needed their own section of up. Jerry and Ollie are out of the earth. Not Jerry. Oh, excuse me.

[01:42:52] April and Ollie are at it again. Like, God damn. These two could not keep their hands themselves. It's crazy. Well, Ollie is evicted. Dan's gamble pays off because Ollie doesn't win. He's evicted. And now it is down to the final five. And it is Dan's entire alliance against Jerry. Everything goes smoothly as long as Jerry doesn't win.

[01:43:22] But of course, things do not break Dan's way this time. And, you know, in general, competition outcomes are not going to be Dan's favorite thing. As he draws the one who would have guessed the 75 year old is able to pull out another competition win at the final five against the entire alliance. Jerry wins the final five head of household. And of course, he is out for Dan's blood.

[01:43:51] Of course he is. Always be Judas in his book, baby. Even though he did apologize ahead of this for calling Dan Judas. But the principle remains in that Danny is not to be trusted. And he has got to go. So. Now, this is when history is about to repeat itself once again, because, you know, you've seen this before at this point, right? Dan might have been nominated by Jerry.

[01:44:21] He gets Brian to sort of like go go defend him, make sure he doesn't get nominated. Michelle is thinking about potentially nominating Dan. He's going to talk to Memphis and be like, hey, Memphis, can you vouch for me here and get get me to not be nominated? Essentially, keep me safe. Once again. Dan is going to use an agent to help sabotage Jerry's goal of getting him out of the game.

[01:44:49] This is where Dan nominating Memphis came in. So clutch. Because. Again, nobody sees that Dan and Memphis are together. And this is not just like, you know, even Danielle and Jason, where it's like, oh, they're really good friends. But, you know, we don't see that there is tight duo working together. You know, this is much more June and Alice. This is like these two hate each other. Like they they don't like each other. There's no way they're working together.

[01:45:20] Jerry thinks that by talking to Memphis about targeting Dan, that Memphis is going to be happy. He's going to be like, I'm going to get him for us. And so Jerry sees Memphis as the best person to work with in the same way that probably Dan did only a month ago. And Jerry tries to pull Memphis in and say, hey, I want you to be my final two because you are alone in the game like me. And I can't trust Dan for anything. And I obviously can't work with Keisha and Rennie. They're a duo.

[01:45:50] And so he thinks he's going to be able to work with Memphis. And Memphis is able to be like, yeah, I am pissed at that guy. He tried to target me. He tried to get me out of the game. He nominated me when he was HOH and just fully, fully just goes in with Jerry. And Jerry feels like he has found an ally in Memphis.

[01:46:12] And he says, Memphis, if I keep you off the block, the only thing I need from you is to win that veto and keep Dan on the block so that we can take him out of this game. And Memphis says, of course. But of course. Making a final two deal and everything and just really trying to just think about this end game and getting to the end. Again, great, you know, duo gameplay by Memphis and Dan.

[01:46:43] Jerry, you know, tunnel vision right now on Dan. It all makes perfect sense. You know, there's no reason for Jerry not to believe that Memphis would not be a target or excuse me, Dan would not be a target for Memphis. So might as well. And it's this kind of duo play that should be textbook. This is the sort of thing that people should be taking away from Dan's game. Maybe you don't want to go as far as the gamble of nominating one of your closest allies.

[01:47:11] But like going out of your way to make sure that you are not seen as a duo is so incredibly valuable. It's something that we already talked about. Paul, Paul in season 18 should have played more of a an individual card from Victor, especially when Victor came back into the game. They went right back to being a duo. They were seen as a duo. They were targeted as a duo. Again, it happens all the time that you go to the end game. People see you as a duo. You don't do enough to separate yourself.

[01:47:40] There's so, so, so much value in not being seen as a locked in ally of the person that is a locked in ally. And this is a huge example of why. Because if they don't pull this off, then Memphis and Dan stay are on the block together. Memphis potentially wins this veto. And Memphis takes himself off the block. And all of a sudden, Dan's up against Rennie or Keisha. And Dan's gone. Like, you know, I mean, probably gone.

[01:48:08] You can never really say anything with certainty against Dan, given what he's gone through. But like, it's a very bad spot for Dan. But because of those gambles before, because of the risks that they took and the way that they set themselves up, both inside and outside of their alliance, Memphis was able to stay off the block, win the veto, and then against Jerry's wishes, use the veto to save Dan, forcing both Keisha and Rennie on the block.

[01:48:38] Yeah, I agree with you. I think it's, uh, it is sort of underutilized these days about people trying to hide alliances. I think that a lot of modern Big Brother players just automatically are like, oh, well, people, it's hard to hide this relationship that I have with you. People are going to know about it. So we might as well just be out in the open about it. I don't think that you need to do that.

[01:49:02] Like, I think, I think it's a combination of people that are unwilling to make connections with people that they don't necessarily feel comfortable with at first. And it's also just people want to hang around the people that they have deemed as friends. And that's great and everything. But like, if you're interested in winning or if you're interested in setting up a dynamic in which you can have plausible deniability,

[01:49:27] it is best for you to try to create relationships with other people so that there is this space for you to be like, yeah, no, screw that guy. We're not together, even though y'all were just ha-ha and kiki last night. But, you know, and Dan and Memphis were so effective at this that not only were they not nominated together as a duo, but Memphis was the guy that Jerry trusted the most to take Dan out.

[01:49:50] He was the guy who he thought was the most willing to go against Dan, which is a wild thing to have pulled off. And it's not the first or last time that they do it. So Memphis uses the veto on Dan, and this is, of course, going to lead to Rennie's eviction. It is it's around this time that they have their time zone conversation. I would say not. I don't think Rennie's on the block at the time, but it's certainly a near end game,

[01:50:21] which is another classic moment where Rennie does not believe. You're going to make an ass out of yourself in front of America. It's six o'clock. It's it's basically Dan and Memphis's choice between Keisha and Rennie. For Dan, this is a no brainer. He has a great relationship with Keisha at this point. He's been working on the relationship with Keisha for a long time. It's going to come in clutch very soon as well.

[01:50:50] And and, you know, the relationship with Rennie has always been. You know, if he at best. She's at 6 p.m., he's at 3 p.m. Like it's, you know. Yeah. So they're both going to vote out Rennie, which brings them to the final four where it is where Jerry can't even compete in the HOH. He is only going to be able to compete in the veto.

[01:51:20] Dan wins this HOH. He nominates Jerry and Memphis. Or sorry. Well, it's let's let's let's talk a little bit more about Rennie before we before we move past Rennie. Phenomenal character. She is. Let me see here. She is. 53 years old at the time of playing Big Brother 10.

[01:51:47] And, you know, she is right in there with them, arguing with people, getting into fights, strategizing, being a part of the gameplay. Like she is not a huge part of the gameplay in the way that like Keisha and Libra and, you know, like Michelle and like all of those players were. She's a little bit more of a background player throughout like a good portion of the season. But she is still a player.

[01:52:14] And especially once we get to end game, she is like pretty much like similar to Jerry, like the only one that can really see through Dan. Another dokes, the dokes part two. She's like, Dan, I know what you're up to, Dan. Yeah. But but is not really able to convince anybody. Yeah. At that point, it's a little too much too late. But you're so right in that.

[01:52:41] Like, yeah, she might not have been, you know, as overstated as a character throughout or at least as a player rather throughout the season. But she was always, you know, clued in. She people always tried to include her in conversations before votes. She always had an input. And again, not afraid to be like, I know what's going on here. So like it's yeah, just just just just a great character.

[01:53:09] And her and Dan's little rivalry, I feel like in a lot of ways is the predecessor to Kevin Martin and Karen. Yeah. And five for sure. Just just she's a delight. Just fantastic. If if you haven't listened to it, I highly recommend I did a Taron show interview with Rennie years ago. So really, if you have listened to it, go back and listen to it again. It's it's phenomenal. She's quite a character.

[01:53:41] But that's it for Rennie. So Dan wins the final four H.O.H. And. The game is still like they do not let their foot off the gas here in final four in particular. Like we talked a lot about season seven, some of the mistakes that Dr. Will made. Dan does not make those mistakes. In fact, he is he. The thing about Dan is that he's always playing every angle as much as possible. He does not let off the gas.

[01:54:09] When people talk about the funeral, they talk about how they feel like some of those things that happen in the funeral might not have been necessary. But the thing about Dan is that he's going to do what is necessary at all times unless he's on the traders. And so. So. He is going to nominate Memphis again.

[01:54:32] And of course, it's like, well, you know, this is this is a spot where, you know, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that Memphis is being nominated here because it's the final four. But you're still able to play this up. And that's what they did. They planned this so that Memphis would act pissed that he was nominated again. And quite frankly, he still kind of was. He's still annoyed. He's like, he's not nominating me again.

[01:55:01] But he plays this up to Jerry because he goes to Jerry. He's like, Jerry, you were right. You told me that I made a mistake by not by vetoing Dan off the block and that he was going to betray me like he betrays everyone else. And then look at me now. He's trying to target me. He put me up on the block with you. I got duped. I got duped. Jerry. It's like bring him down further and further into the delusion is bring him down for Jerry. Poor Jerry.

[01:55:29] And they continue this ruse where they have decided now that they're not going to evict Jerry. That they would prefer to evict Keisha because Jerry is basically an automatic win in the final three. For as many competitions as Jerry has won, those final three HOH competitions, even as early as season 10, are basically unwinnable by a 75-year-old man.

[01:55:55] And so they feel like by evicting Keisha, they bring Jerry to the final three. Memphis feels like this is great for him because he's the one working on Jerry. And so he's bringing Jerry. If Jerry does win the final three HOH, he's bringing Memphis. If Dan wins the final three HOH, he's also bringing Memphis. So Memphis feels like this is great for me. We're evicting Keisha. We're bringing Jerry. This is bad for Dan because Dan's putting himself in a spot where if Jerry wins, Dan loses.

[01:56:25] And that's not the case for me. And so because of that, Dan sort of leverages that and has Memphis continue to work on Jerry while leaving Keisha alone. And this is a huge, huge part of why Dan wins unanimously because Dan focuses all of his energy on Keisha. Banking on the fact that Jerry's not going to win the final three HOH, goes in on Keisha, says, I want to keep you. Obviously, we are working to keep you.

[01:56:54] They go to the veto competition and Dan could have won. And is in a specific spot where he's able to basically see, watch Memphis and Keisha compete. If Keisha was about to win, he could have won himself if he wanted to. But Memphis pulls it out over Keisha. Dan throws that veto competition to Memphis so that Memphis will have to be the one to evict Keisha.

[01:57:19] On top of this, even after Memphis wins, Dan continues to say, I want to keep you. And Keisha, who is no patsy, immediately sauces out from Memphis. You're evicting me. You're evicting me? Are you serious? After everything? You're real. I'm not stupid, Memphis. I can tell just by looking at you. And she's pissed.

[01:57:48] And she runs off with Dan. And Dan's like, oh, man, I can't believe he's doing this to us. For those of you that are distraught over the whole Brittany versus the Brigade thing, this, again, this is the predecessor to that. Okay, this is a girl finding out that what she thought she had, she didn't. There's a lot more going on at play.

[01:58:17] And she was just lowered into this insecurity of being able to stay. And I love that she could sense it. I love that she, and she says it to them. She's talking, it's like, I did not get this far in the game without being able to read people. I know your ass is about to do something to me. I know you're about to do it. And she was right. And this is what I was talking about earlier.

[01:58:42] I was like, I don't necessarily know if Dan needed to keep up this ruse and say, you know, I plan, like, this isn't me. This is all Memphis. Memphis wants you gone. Because we've seen how that doesn't work these seasons. And I don't necessarily know if it should have worked that season. That movie in particular, I'm still a little bit like, ah.

[01:59:06] But the cool thing about that is he still gave her a little bit of information on her way out the door when she does get evicted about this whole twist about winning a trip and giving it to Michelle and this, that, and the third. So even the thing about Dan is that it's always a calculated risk.

[01:59:26] He never goes into something without putting a little bit of money down first and saying, like, this is what I'm going to do to ensure that even if this is something that I'm doing to piss you off, I'm going to give you a little tidbit just so that you can't be as pissed off. And, uh. So here's, here's, here's, I think the, uh, what makes this move, I think one of his most brilliant, quite frankly. Um, because it is a very risky thing to do, uh, for multiple reasons.

[01:59:56] One is that, like, if you're Memphis, you shouldn't be okay with him doing this, right? Like, you shouldn't allow Dan to make you take full credit for this, uh, and all of the heat for this. You would maybe like, uh, you know, um, uh, like what happened with, uh, with Paul, uh, and Josh, like, you know, rat him out in the goodbye messages or like, you know, just in general, be like, you know, Dan, like agreed with me to make this move.

[02:00:24] Right? Like you could really sink Dan, uh, if you want to, if, if Dan gets caught doing this, whatever the case may be. But Dan, because they are intentionally playing this like divide and conquer strategy, Dan is essentially saying, I will allow you to bring Jerry to the final three and work on Jerry alone. While I work on Keisha and make it look like, you know, like you're the only one offering Jerry anything. And I'm the only one offering Keisha anything, which is good for both of us.

[02:00:50] Uh, if you allow me to essentially play up like, Oh, I wanted to keep you. And on top of that, they plan on this is another part of the strategy. Once Memphis stands up and evicts Keisha, Dan is like, I can't believe you would do this to me. Like he plays up that Memphis betrayed him to Jerry as well. Like that's part of the ruse. Keisha needs to think that Dan's on her side because Jerry needs to think that Dan's on her side. Uh, because that allows Memphis to look like he betrayed Dan and make it seem like they're on their account.

[02:01:20] Contentious again. Um, so that Jerry will feel more comfortable with Memphis winning the HOH, the final three HOH. Um, so that's like what he does in the game. Um, outside of the game, he always had Keisha's vote over Memphis. But what, uh, what this allowed him to do is in, instead of like being like having it, cause there are two ways of going about this. You can spend the time apologizing to Keisha and saying, sorry, I made this decision. And please don't be mad at me.

[02:01:48] And then hope that that works when she goes to the jury, uh, or in this spot, because he's ostensibly still on her side, he's able to talk to Keisha about what she should be saying to the jury on his behalf. Because she's not doing that. If he's evicting her and she thinks he's evicting her. Right. Like she's offering him advice. He's talking about like, who should I bring to the end? Should it be Memphis or Jerry?

[02:02:14] And she's like, Hmm, you can't bring Jerry because Jerry's got too many people from his side of the house that might vote for him. He's like, Hmm, good point Keisha. Uh, like already making it seem like, yes, it is a good idea for me to go to the end with Memphis. Um, and talking about talking points and what talking points she should have when she campaigns for him on the jury. And none of those conversations happen if he's spending that time apologizing.

[02:02:38] The risk is when she eventually finds out that Dan was probably on board with this, she might decide to not do any of those things, or she might decide she's pissed at Dan and not vote for him or whatever the case may be. But it allows him to have those conversations. And we have seen many times throughout Big Brother history that those kinds of conversations, prepping a jury member before going to the jury can have immense influence over how the jury votes.

[02:03:02] Um, because you now have some level of control and connection, uh, through what you're going to say in your final speech and what the jury is talking about. We saw this happen really effectively, uh, in Big Brother Canada six, um, and, uh, and, uh, Big Brother, uh, 18, um, with Nicole, uh, and, and her guy at the time, um, being able to prep somebody before going to the jury. Super, super effective.

[02:03:30] Uh, and Dan is the first person to really do this. Um, and in a way, in a spot where it wasn't like in a spot where he was at fault for evicting her and had to pretend he wasn't in order to maintain, in order to have that conversation. It's really interesting. And it's, I think a play that is not utilized enough. Um, but still as always pretty risky. Okay. Okay. You have. Okay.

[02:04:00] It's the, it's the. Letting Memphis believe that I'm going to let Keisha believe that I'm not against her in the interest of keeping up the ruse that the two of us are not together. Therefore interests are divided so that then when she is gone,

[02:04:27] me and Jerry can get into it over you and me getting into it to basically just make it, make it so that no one believes that either of us are ever going to be on the same page. And from Memphis's perspective, it's a fantastic deal because he was never getting Keisha's vote anyway. So he's like, I'll sacrifice Keisha's vote for sure for a benefit to me right now in the game. Um, so it made a lot of sense for him to feel like that was a good play.

[02:04:57] Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's interesting stuff. Um, Keisha, of course, a phenomenal player does, I believe have a lot of influence over the jury. Um, we're going to see some segments, uh, where she's talking about, uh, about what's happening. They call her out on being such a campaigner for Dan. Um, but it still is very effective. Um, you know, a lot of people will point to the, uh, the jury, uh, twist, um, that we haven't talked about yet,

[02:05:25] but, uh, where Dan won a prize to go bring one member of the jury, uh, and have like a conversation with them. He brings Michelle and apologizes for the movie. Never done since, right? Never done since. Um, I love this as a twist. Actually. I think this is great. I think that it should be done more often. Uh, I think that like giving players more agency over the jury, I think is a good thing. Uh, more opportunity to influence the jury, I think is a good thing. More players should have this opportunity.

[02:05:53] More players should be able to have these conversations. Multiple players per season, I think would even be fun. Um, but, uh, but that obviously does have some level of impact. He's able to soften that blow with Michelle. Um, but I really do think that he's not going to win unanimously if not for Keisha coming in, in the way that she does, uh, campaigning for Dan. Um, so, uh, that's it for Keisha. Phenomenal player, uh, cut short here.

[02:06:21] Just, you know, wasn't able to win these end game competitions. If she had been able to, who knows, uh, maybe she's able to cut in there. Um, and it's a different story, but, uh, you know, shame about big brother, all stars too. Shame, shame, shame, but we love her just the same. No, that's right. Uh, of course that brings us to the final three. Um, Dan and Memphis are going to continue to play up that they are pissed at each other.

[02:06:51] Uh, they fake a fight right after Keisha's eviction. Um, and they continue that fight. They like, they basically are going to fight anytime they're in a room. They stay in separate rooms, uh, like the entire week that, uh, they're competing for the final three HOH, the entire time, at least. Uh, they only ever have conversations when Jerry goes to the diary room and then they get together and they're like, okay, so we're really doing this. Like, uh, and they're like exchanging jewelry, um, and, and swearing up and down that they

[02:07:19] are going to take each other to the end and not cut each other for Jerry. Uh, and talking about how, you know, you know, Keisha said Jerry's going to win if he's, if he's sitting there. Um, and, uh, and then as soon as Jerry comes back out, they hate each other again. And it's Memphis and Jerry talking and it's Dan alone. Um, and, uh, all of this for just the hope that Jerry might not try as hard to form just a little less, right? Because it's like, it's not do or die for you.

[02:07:49] Memphis is taking you to the end. Memphis might have a better shot at part three than you do anyway, like stuff like that. Right. Um, and then, and that's why Dan is able to, for the first, uh, out of two times, uh, convince people to drop out of the part, one of the final three HOH to him. Um, because, because of this plan, because Memphis has a chance to convince Jerry to potentially throw part two to him, or at least not try as hard.

[02:08:15] Whereas, uh, Jerry will try his hardest against Dan in part two with, so again, just playing so hard for the, for as much optimization as possible. Um, ultimately, uh, it, you know, Memphis is able to beat, uh, Jerry in part two. And, uh, that brings both Dan and Memphis to part three. They both plan to take each other to the final, uh, two, which means this is the end for Jerry. Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, man.

[02:08:41] Uh, first HOH, one of the last to be evicted. Uh, just, uh, a pleasure, the pleasure. And I love the fact that, you know, even to this day, um, Dan will continuously give the rest of the community updates on what's going on with Jerry and, uh, in his life. And thus far, and he's, he's still out here kicking y'all. Jerry is still with us. And I love that.

[02:09:04] Um, but you know, yeah, big brother 10, just, just a necessary character for this season. Um, and, uh, you know, for being 75 years old and a lot of people gave him props, you know, during the season for being such an older gentleman and still roughing it with the youngins and winning comps against the youngins. Like we, I don't think that we've really ever seen a character like him since. And it's a shame. It really is. Yeah.

[02:09:34] Uh, he was a super fan, uh, coming in. He'd watched every season, watch live feeds. Like, uh, he really knew his stuff. Uh, and, and it showed, uh, he played very hard. He was really in it, got into the drama, got into the strategy. Like, uh, again, this, this cast skews older, um, with the average, certainly, uh, primarily because of Jerry, um, and, uh, and the, you know, quote unquote, older house guests really

[02:10:01] delivered, uh, here and really proved that they should not be left out of the casting process. Um, and, uh, again, to this day, Jerry remains the oldest house guest to ever play. He made it all the way to the final three. And, you know, theoretically was one, you know, competition, one final three HOH went away from, from winning. Yeah, for sure. Like, I mean, I would have voted for Jerry if he made it for sure. Of course, Dan wins the, uh, part three of the final three HOH, uh, in his speech,

[02:10:30] uh, mentions the renegades evicts. Jerry brings Memphis to the final two where he is going to win unanimously over Memphis Garrett, um, in the final, uh, pre-taped jury section, jury questioning section. Um, and it's a classic. It's great. It's phenomenal. I think it's the final one. The final what? I'm sorry. Final, uh, pre-taped, not live jury questioning. Oh yeah. Yeah.

[02:11:00] I did. Like when I was watching, uh, watching the season back, I was like, oh yeah, I guess they, they did used to do it, didn't they? Um, yeah. Um, questions were all geared towards trying to figure out just how much Dan was doing, just how much in Memphis didn't know or how much he was clued in on everything. And, uh, yeah, I mean, at that point it just became sort of apparent as to like who played

[02:11:28] the better game, who was willing to win this season, um, and who was responsible much more for all of the people that went out of the door. So yeah, I think, uh, when it comes down to it, yes, I think, I think one of Memphis's biggest strengths is that he sort of like knew how to pivot. Um, he knew, uh, when to sort of sit back.

[02:11:52] Um, but that's also a weakness in him in that, like, yes, it's cool to like, sort of like take the back seat, but like, again, as you stated before, if it's against Dan, not the best, not the best recourse of action. Whereas with Dan, with Dan, obviously all season long, very conscious about like who he was in the game, how he was perceived in the game. What was the best strategy moving forward?

[02:12:21] Willing to adapt the strategy and then willing to let go of like how to let go of like how he was perceived a little bit towards the end. Like you can't continue to play this low and down out character when you're able to win these competitions, when you're up there playing, uh, renomination roulette. Like at some point you just sort of have to accept the power play that you are, but still

[02:12:45] allowing yourself the ability to just be like, you can't touch me because I don't have anybody in this game. So Dan, like as much as I might give him shit every other day because I'm like, whatever, he's not that great. Like the guy revolutionized the game playing, playing period. Like it just is what it is. Just, just, uh, and I had so much fun rewatching this. I really did.

[02:13:13] And I think probably gives one of the best answers in jury questioning it, like reminiscent of like Todd and big brother China and big brother China, uh, survivor China, like, um, really, really, uh, fantastic answer because the big thing that the jury is hung up on is like, okay, but Dan, did you go too far with replacement nominee roulette? Like you really made us look like fools. And Dan is prepared for this question.

[02:13:42] And his answer is, I totally get that. But for me, when I came into this game, I knew that I was not special. I looked around. I saw people that were bigger, stronger, smarter, more charismatic than me. I knew I was going to have to use like my wits to get ahead. I would get through essentially. Um, and, um, when I look at somebody like Memphis, it's a very self-interested player. Uh, so how do I convince Memphis to bring me to the final two?

[02:14:11] Well, I need to get more heat on me. I need to get people to hate me so that it will convince him to bring me to the end. Um, and that's what replacement nominee roulette was about. It was, it was to show Memphis that he could bring me to the end of that. He wouldn't need to betray me and cut me. Uh, and if, if, if it went too far, that's on me, I'm sorry, but that was the reasoning behind it. That's the key one right there. It's like, he concedes to it in the end. He's like, let me tell you why I did it. If you're pissed off, I get it. Yeah.

[02:14:43] But I'm here. And they are visibly like wowed by, they're like, wow. Unbelievable. This guy, the kinds of things he thinks about. Um, and, uh, and so like, just, uh, you know, is this an answer that is enough to like convince people that hate him already that will never vote for him to vote for him? Probably not. But like, as a hangup, as a thing where it's like, this is, you know, they've already been, you know, talking to Keisha.

[02:15:13] They've already been like kind of pissed at Memphis. They already want probably to vote for Dan. He's been nicer to them. But this one thing really, uh, makes them think maybe they don't want to vote for Dan. Like years. An answer like that is like, okay, that just turned into a reason to vote for him. Uh, because that's, that's a really interesting way of thinking about the game and just further confirmation that he thinks about the game in a completely different way than most people do.

[02:15:37] Um, and so, uh, ultimately he wins, uh, unanimously the first unanimous winner of the show, uh, and will remain the only one for quite a while. Um, and, uh, that's big brother 10. Oh man, big brother 10, man. Like I'm, you know, 99% certain that everyone that is going to be watching slash sharing this

[02:16:01] podcast has already watched people, but by the off chance that you have not, and you have stumbled across this podcast for whatever reason, a piece of me wants to tell you to start off with this season, a piece of me tells, wants me to tell you not to, because in a lot of ways, there's a lot of other seasons that go down from here. So it's just. The thing about starting big brother is that you normally like the first season you watch more than you should.

[02:16:28] So like you, you kind of want to use it on a bad season. Yeah. Uh, and then eventually once you're burned out, get to big brother 10 and be reinvigorated. Exactly. So regardless, watch the season. Um, it's a fun ride as we've just gone through over the past, the past two plus hours. So many great characters, everyone. Um, most people are self-interested in this season.

[02:16:58] Most people are not willing to back down. Most people are not afraid of confrontation. Um, the strategy is there. The, uh, the scandal is there. If you want to do a little digging, you can find all of it. Um, it's just, it's such a good, colorful, just crunchy season to bite into. And the winner is one of the best of all time, if not the best of all time.

[02:17:25] Um, and really change the game for any season that you might have watched since then. So it's just, uh, it's, it's a staple in reality TV. For sure. Um, and, and I'll, I'll maintain, I think that like Dan's game and big brother 10 is not necessarily the most dominant, uh, first time, um, you know, player game.

[02:17:49] Um, but I think it is by a decent margin, the most impressive and flexible, uh, like first time play, uh, of any player. Um, you know, you can, when people talk about like who has played the most, the best single season or first season, uh, game, a lot of people will talk about Derek and his dominant win. Um, they may now talk about Chelsea and her dominant win. Um, and, uh, you know, I think, you know, you can even make some arguments for other players

[02:18:19] that have faced a ton of adversity, like Taylor. I know that people will find that controversial strategically, but like, you know, there are different arguments for different kinds of players and the way that they played the game. But, uh, but the, the, the amount, the, the amount of angles that Dan played in that season, the amount of risks he took, the amount of different strategies he implemented. Uh, I think he in season 10 in particular, and, and I think there's a case to be made that season 14 is even more impressive, but in different ways.

[02:18:48] But season 10, as a first time player, utilizing perception, uh, in the way that he did utilizing secrecy, um, positioning things like floating, uh, alliance structure. Like he really touches on every angle of big brother strategy, uh, in one season of play. Um, and even does some things that nobody else really does.

[02:19:08] Uh, and so I think like for that reason, uh, I think it's, it's like, you know, definitely from my perspective, the most impressive, uh, first season, um, uh, play through. No, I mean, you gotta give it to the guy. Like even me, like I am like someone that is a bit of a contrarian sometimes by nature. So I'm always like, Oh my God, like, is he that good? Like, wait, wait, let it go guys.

[02:19:33] Like, and I'm much more interested in like moving forward with the game of big brother and talking about like what big brother is now. And like what a winning game looks like now. But again, you know, when you contextualize everything, you know, he's the guy is, the guy is innovative. He wasn't afraid to get messy. He wasn't afraid to, um, take those risks.

[02:19:58] And I think that's something that is, that is very rewarding in a game back then. You know what? This is, this is still a moment, even at season 10, this is still a moment in which the game of big brother is still very much evolving. Like what we know of it as today, a lot of that stuff was still not yet set in stone back then. And I think that he is one of those people that is sort of like an architecture of the, or an architect of the game.

[02:20:27] Like it just, you know, he, he did what he could and he, uh, he made it last. He really did. And I, and I think it's really interesting to look at his traders game in, in the context of specifically big brother 10, because it's pretty clear that he's trying to do a similar thing with perception in that season.

[02:20:46] Uh, but, um, but like, and especially when you look at then big brother 14, uh, because, you know, he's able to use perception of bigger 14 to some degree, but people know him. And so he's, uh, able to compensate for anything he can't do with perception with the mechanics of the game and some of the other strategies that he implements, uh, on the traders. It's all perception and on paper, Dan should be amazing at that except people know who he is.

[02:21:16] Exactly. And when he's on the cast with, with Janelle, who's going to call him out and completely expose him to the people who don't already know him. Like that's a rough place to be. And then on top of that, uh, he's a player who works very slowly as well. Uh, he really like takes his time and obviously that's not very, uh, you know, sort of conducive to the traders. And so I actually think it's really interesting to see how different play styles. Do you think he would have done better as a faithful or no? I think he's, I think he's always going to be voted out.

[02:21:46] The second I heard he was cast, the first thing I wrote on Twitter was like, oh, awesome that we're going to get to see Dan again for a couple episodes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's an insurmountable legacy to, uh, to try to, to go against. So yeah, I, I, in, in some ways I was like, you know what? Okay. Let's put them to the test.

[02:22:11] Like, let's see if all of the praise that we have been giving him over the past, uh, decade plus is like worth, worth it all. And I still think that, yeah, it was, I think that even in his display on the traders, I think. As you said, like the game is much more just about perception. It's not so much about the strategy. It's more so like, can you convince someone to believe the way that you see yourself and make them see you that way as well?

[02:22:41] And I think he was, I think that he was successful with some people, more people than I would have given your average player for sure. So I think in that respect, I can say, yeah, I think that his showing was still pretty good. I just think that there are, you know, obviously a lot more, uh, variables and factors out there. A lot more people that have the capacity to do research and not want to be fooled again, um, or fooled for the first time. So it's, it was always going to be a rough hill for him for sure. Yeah.

[02:23:11] I, you know, the, the interesting thing about the thing about the traders to me is that like, there are so many players on there who I really wish I could see play without the burden of the reputation because the traders is again, all about perception. And, um, you know, it's, it's like, you can, you know, I don't, I guess I want to spoil any traders, but like, uh, like there are so many players with huge reputations that come into that show.

[02:23:33] And it's like, you, you know, you can't win this show, right? Like, it's not going to happen. Um, uh, you know, and obviously there are, there have been certain winners, but I think that, you know, the winners that have managed to get through it's, it's, uh, you know, they have not been burdened by their reputation. Um, and, and some of them, I would say anyone that has been able to get through without the burden of their reputation, uh, have done so very intentionally and calculated, uh, in calculated ways.

[02:24:02] So, uh, very much kudos to them who managed to do it. But, uh, that is one of the things about the traders that I wish, I wish we could see more of, uh, these, these people play without that, uh, if we could, but, uh, anyway, big brother, 10 classic season. It's got something for everyone. I think that, uh, it is, as I said at the beginning of this podcast, truly the pinnacle of what big brother has to offer.

[02:24:25] Um, there is no season. I think that better displays the strengths of the game. Um, and, uh, and what the show can produce, uh, more than big brother, 10, a lot of people will talk about big brother, all-stars. Big brother, 10 has no prereq prerequisites like big brother, all-stars kinds of, kind of does. Um, you might, you know, talk about big brother six, or, you know, some like split house seasons that are very, very good.

[02:24:50] Big brother, 10 has a split house. Uh, you know, big brother, 10 has a floater working his way through the game. Um, big brother, 10 has a dominant alliance structure, uh, in the end. Like it has strategically everything you would want. It has dramatically everything you would want. There's a big fight, like every single week, uh, shifting lines, um, like shifting structures. It's so, so good on every single level. It's like, uh, you just can't lose.

[02:25:20] Yeah. Big brother, 10 is, it is the composite of big brother for sure. Like if we are, if this, if the human race is about to become extinct and we have to send out their last remnants of human society and on the reality TV section tab, put big brother, 10 on there, bitch. Like just put them on there. I think the, uh,

[02:25:45] the big brother wiki, uh, page did a poll for all like worldwide big brother poll. What is the best season? And I'm pretty sure big brother 10, uh, came out on top, uh, of like the entire history of big brother around the world. As it should. Um, which, uh, I'm sure there's like some amount of, uh, bias there, but, um, but like there were lots of other, uh, international seasons that made it very far in that poll.

[02:26:11] But, um, anyway, that's big brother 10. Thank you all so much for joining us. I hope you enjoyed, uh, another big marathon, uh, big brother retrospect, but this time, uh, my fault. No, it was lovely to hear all of your notes. So on big brother 10, so I don't think anyone's going to have an issue with it.

[02:26:32] Well, next week, I'm sure it will be a bit shorter. Uh, we're going to be talking about big brother 11. Um, quite a season, you know, uh, some interesting things going on there.

[02:26:47] Big brother 11 is crazy. So I cannot wait to hear who's going to be all that with you because boy, uh, yeah, I mean, strategically a bit of a step down, um, controversially, uh, way higher. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it's got, it's got twists. It's got Mr. Pactacular coming back. It's got Brian Hart almost coming back. Uh, you know,

[02:27:14] Yeah. All right. Good luck. Good luck. Yeah. Well, stay tuned for that next week. Uh, in the meantime, go to the BB, uh, uh, robberswebside.com slash BB retrospective to vote for who you think should be on the poster for big brother 10. Aman, what's your pick? One, two, three. Obviously I've one, two, three in terms of image. Okay. Hold on. It's actually kind of hard. It's harder than you think.

[02:27:42] Yeah. I was about to say Dan, obviously, but I don't know if he's number one. Oh, okay. I'm going to put Jesse. Ooh. At number one. Because I just feel like he was just such a force and America obviously was obsessed with him, even if it wasn't to the negative degree, they still wanted his ass out.

[02:28:08] They wanted Dan to hug him. So I'll put Jesse as like the big, the big picture. And then, then I'll put Dan because Dan, there were three people in contention for me for the third spot. It's either Jerry, Renny, or Libra. My personal bias is to put Libra there because I just personally love Libra.

[02:28:36] And she was just such a catalyst for a lot of the conflict in the show. But then you think about Renny, you think about Jerry. It's hard. I feel like I don't want to put three white men up there, but I feel like Jerry needs to be there. You know, like I just feel like he needs to be there, but. Oh, okay. Yeah. I'll do, I'll do Jesse,

[02:29:07] Dan, Jerry. That's what I'll do. I feel like I'll be curious to see if this is one of the most spread out votes, because I really think there are so many good options. I think, I mean, for me, I think you put Dan there number one. But then you really could go in so many different ways. You could put Memphis there. They're the renegades. You could definitely put Jerry as like a classic character. Keisha has to be a huge option. She ends up winning America's favorite player.

[02:29:38] Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah. But then you also have Renny. It's now I've gone through the final five and like every single one of them is absolutely a great option. And of those options, I've already cut Memphis because like, sorry, Memphis, you're just not, you know, interesting enough compared to these other big characters. But, but I still want all of Jerry. Uh, Keisha and Renny. Um, but then you keep going and it's like, well, what about Mr. Peckacular? I mean, you know,

[02:30:05] Jesse has a strong case to be made for why he would be on here. Um, Libra has an incredibly strong case to be made. I, you know, ultimately the two of them go out a little early. Maybe that's the biggest fault against them, but they're two of the biggest characters by far. They have a huge amount of influence over the course of the season. Um, yeah, I, you know, I think April will have a hard time getting up here, but I think she absolutely on any other season would have a great case to be made. Uh, like, you know, I just want it to be one of those, you know,

[02:30:34] those pictures of like, of like, you know, like the, the, the, the movie pictures of, um, or movie posters of like Harry Potter or star Wars, or all of the faces, all of the faces, you put Dan right there in the middle. And then you put the coven right there on the side, just all three of them in a row. You put Jesse right there, like on the side as well. Like, I just want everybody deserves to be on there. Maybe,

[02:31:01] maybe we can do a special edition season 10 that is in the style of star Wars with Dan as like Darth Vader. And yes, exactly. It just, it would only be fair. Um, all right. If I had to choose though, I think I'd probably go Dan number one. I think, God, it's so hard. Um, I think,

[02:31:29] I think Keisha has to be number two as America's favorite. And then, um, and then maybe you, maybe you do just go Jerry over Renny. Uh, but man, I'd love to put Libra on for my personal one. I think I sneak Libra on there, uh, instead of Keisha. Uh, I love Keisha, but like, I think, I think Libra deserves more credit and love for the role she played in the season. Um, but, uh, I'm curious to see where it goes, uh, what the audience thinks.

[02:31:57] So stay tuned next week for the results of the poll. All right. That is it then for big brother 10. Again, tune in next week for big brother 11. In the meantime, you can also find me over on Twitch and YouTube. I'm streaming, watching survivor episodes, playing games like blood on the clock tower and goose goose duck. Um, I've also got a podcast about scripted shows, uh, called the tastemakers where we talk about all kinds of stuff. Uh, the latest, uh, releases and TV and film, uh, and what's worth watching and what's worth skipping and stuff like that.

[02:32:27] Um, so yeah, check all that out. I'm on, what about you? You can find me everywhere. I'm on Adwin. You can catch me and Matt Ligori over at the diary room where we are also talking some big brother, trying to determine the best big brother player of all time, whittling it down. Six players come into the episode. Three will advance to the next round. Taryn has already been a guest on, uh, one of our episodes. It's been a lot of fun. It's been a last quite a long time, but we've had so many great guests. Taryn, uh,

[02:32:57] uh, Josh Martinez, a few people from BB Can 12, and various R.H. e.P. personalities. So, check us out over there. And that's it for me. Alright, well, thank you all so much for joining us here today, and I will see all of you next time. Wir sind Teresa und Nemo und deshalb sind wir zu Shopify gewechselt. Die Plattform, die wir vor Shopify verwendet haben,

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