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[00:01:02] It's a big week when RHAP is on the road in Chicago.
[00:01:06] Check out my live show from Chicago.
[00:01:09] That's going to be up on Thursday, Wednesday night.
[00:01:12] Shannon Guss is going to be live with you with Kelly Wentworth after Survivor.
[00:01:17] And we preview the Dondi finale with dealer no deal island host Joe Manganiello.
[00:01:22] All right here on RHAP. We know reality TV.
[00:01:41] Bailey. Yeah. Hello. Hi. How's it going?
[00:01:44] It's going really good right now. Yeah.
[00:01:47] First of all, thank you for winning me the draft.
[00:01:49] I drafted you. No way!
[00:01:53] Thank you for drafting me.
[00:01:56] And congratulations, because it was a very impressive win.
[00:02:00] Thank you.
[00:02:01] I was I think I was particularly impressed by the fact that you
[00:02:05] were really in a lot of trouble in the beginning.
[00:02:10] That's right, I was.
[00:02:11] I thought that my team wasn't looking great at first,
[00:02:15] but but you really persisted.
[00:02:17] And and what I found particularly impressive was that like,
[00:02:20] despite the fact that you were out of the loop on a lot of things
[00:02:22] like hot chocolate, like hotter chocolate.
[00:02:25] Oh, I didn't know there was a hotter chocolate.
[00:02:26] That was just the women.
[00:02:28] Oh, my God.
[00:02:31] And and then the directors alliance.
[00:02:34] Don't know that one.
[00:02:35] OK, that was Anthony Spicy,
[00:02:41] Avery, Kayla, Goose and Matt.
[00:02:44] Are you kidding me?
[00:02:46] The directors alliance.
[00:02:48] Goose named it.
[00:02:49] Of course.
[00:02:51] Wow. Good one, guys.
[00:02:52] You went real far.
[00:02:54] Yeah. Well, this is this is kind of my point, though.
[00:02:56] Despite the fact that you weren't like included in a lot of these things
[00:02:59] and you didn't know about them,
[00:03:01] you really were able to push your own agenda
[00:03:04] in a way that wasn't like nefarious necessarily,
[00:03:08] but in a way that was like, hey, like spicy.
[00:03:11] This is what's best for us.
[00:03:13] And it happened to be best for you as well.
[00:03:16] Yeah. And quite frankly, knowing what we know about spices game,
[00:03:19] it wasn't really great for us.
[00:03:21] But she still did it.
[00:03:22] She was very convinced by you.
[00:03:23] She very taken in by you.
[00:03:25] And then in the end here, we're seeing that that Anthony
[00:03:27] takes you to the final two as well.
[00:03:30] How'd you do it?
[00:03:33] You know what?
[00:03:33] I really have to attribute it to the fact that I truly was loyal
[00:03:38] to these people.
[00:03:39] It wasn't an act.
[00:03:40] And I think maybe spicy knew that she was involved in a couple of things
[00:03:44] that she wasn't being truthful with.
[00:03:45] But she knew where my loyalty lied.
[00:03:47] She knew that I was being honest with her.
[00:03:49] And so she trusted me with the game moves that I wanted to make
[00:03:53] because she knew that no matter what happened, I would have her back.
[00:03:56] And when it comes to Anthony, I think that he maybe underestimated
[00:04:01] the amount of playing I was doing in this game.
[00:04:04] But in the same way, I was I was very honest with him.
[00:04:08] It kind of made it hard for people to think that I was disloyal or dishonest.
[00:04:11] So they didn't really have a choice but to trust what I was saying.
[00:04:15] And I proved that I proved my word a lot in this game.
[00:04:18] And I knew that I had the facts to back it up.
[00:04:20] So I guess people just felt the need to trust me.
[00:04:23] Yeah. I mean, listen, it was nobody
[00:04:26] nobody's best interest to keep Todd in the game other than you.
[00:04:28] Nope! I know!
[00:04:30] And and spicy went out of her way multiple times to protect him,
[00:04:33] including the executive veto week.
[00:04:35] Yep. Which was obviously very crucial. Yes.
[00:04:38] So talk to me about your relationship with Anthony
[00:04:43] and what you talked about where it's like,
[00:04:45] I think part of how you functioned was that you were so honest with people
[00:04:50] that it made them feel like, you know, even though we're arguing,
[00:04:53] we get over it.
[00:04:54] I feel better about her now that we've talked it through.
[00:04:56] Yes. And then you could lie to them after. Yes.
[00:05:00] Exactly. How much of that was intentional?
[00:05:03] All of that was intentional.
[00:05:05] Every time I was arguing with Anthony, that was very real and very raw.
[00:05:08] And, you know, those were the real feelings that I was having.
[00:05:11] I was very frustrated with him because all I wanted was for him
[00:05:15] to give me as much of his game as I was giving to him.
[00:05:18] And I wanted him to trust me fully, even though I knew when it came down to it,
[00:05:23] I was going to be more loyal to the girls.
[00:05:26] All of that was my way of getting through issues.
[00:05:30] That's the only way I know how to do that.
[00:05:32] I don't have the same skills that he has to manipulate or work around
[00:05:36] the problem.
[00:05:37] I just dive straight into it and it worked out in my favor a lot of the time.
[00:05:41] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:05:42] Is this something you do in like your real life where like you just you hash
[00:05:45] because it seemed like it came very naturally to you.
[00:05:47] You'd like just hash it out with somebody.
[00:05:49] Yes, I as you probably have seen through this season, I don't do well
[00:05:54] letting things stew inside of me.
[00:05:56] I need to get to the root of the problem right away.
[00:05:58] And I like to hash things out as they come
[00:06:00] because I simply can't handle how it feels inside my body.
[00:06:03] Yeah. So I like to work things out with people.
[00:06:05] I want to find a solution.
[00:06:08] And this is exactly how I behave in my everyday life.
[00:06:11] Well, it's like it's like a manipulator's nightmare, right?
[00:06:14] Because they function on everybody staying quiet and not communicating.
[00:06:18] I thought I did a good job of seeing through some of that manipulation
[00:06:21] and they don't like that.
[00:06:22] Hence why we argue for hours on end. Yeah.
[00:06:27] So the jury. Yeah.
[00:06:29] Six of them voted for you. Yeah.
[00:06:32] Why do you think Goose went the other way?
[00:06:34] Who knows why Goose went the other way?
[00:06:36] That kid is a wild card.
[00:06:38] I didn't count on his vote anyway.
[00:06:40] I think that he was closer with Anthony and, you know,
[00:06:44] Anthony played an amazing game.
[00:06:45] I understand why anyone would vote for him to win.
[00:06:48] I think that Anthony did wrong Goose in the same way
[00:06:51] that maybe the other jurors felt.
[00:06:53] So he was voting for his bed buddy.
[00:06:55] So I understand. Yeah.
[00:06:58] He also didn't like me, apparently.
[00:06:59] So freaking couldn't stand me, I guess.
[00:07:01] Yeah, that's what I heard. Oh, boy.
[00:07:03] Yeah. What else have you heard?
[00:07:05] That's it. I don't know.
[00:07:07] You just you talk to them.
[00:07:08] They just whispered, hey, goose didn't like you.
[00:07:10] No, no. When Goose was H.O.H.
[00:07:13] Lexus told me that he said he couldn't freaking stand me.
[00:07:15] So that's when I knew that.
[00:07:17] That was when you were, I think, the target at the time.
[00:07:19] Yeah. When the backdoor was happening.
[00:07:21] Yeah. Yeah. Which never happened.
[00:07:23] So no, it didn't.
[00:07:26] Yeah. Multiple times.
[00:07:27] Multiple times people wanted to get out of this game.
[00:07:29] Yeah. Without me even knowing.
[00:07:32] I think that there's probably going to be a lot of discourse
[00:07:35] about the bitter factor of this jury.
[00:07:38] Yes. How do you feel about that?
[00:07:41] Like, do you do you feel like they were bitter?
[00:07:44] Do you feel like like what are your thoughts on it right now?
[00:07:47] I think the jury valued a lot of the same things
[00:07:50] that I would value being a voter, and that is loyalty.
[00:07:55] And that is, you know, working with someone that betrayed you.
[00:08:00] I didn't betray anybody in that jury, but Anthony did.
[00:08:04] And they had feelings about that.
[00:08:05] But I also think the jury wanted someone to win
[00:08:08] that played a more loyal and honest game.
[00:08:11] And I think that that was me.
[00:08:13] I think I I think that I worked much harder on my relationships
[00:08:17] with the members of the jury than Anthony might have.
[00:08:19] So that worked out in my favor because they knew exactly
[00:08:23] what kind of person I was.
[00:08:24] I wasn't hiding anything.
[00:08:26] I didn't lie to them.
[00:08:27] I didn't backstab them.
[00:08:29] You know, none of them were really the reason why they were sitting there.
[00:08:31] Or I wasn't the reason why any of them were sitting there.
[00:08:34] So maybe they were bitter, but that's the risk you take
[00:08:38] when you leave your game in the hands of a jury.
[00:08:40] Well, I think from my perspective, at least, and I haven't talked to the jury,
[00:08:44] but like I do think they were very bitter.
[00:08:46] I mean, Victoria literally had a trash bag
[00:08:49] at the jury roundtable that she pulled out.
[00:08:53] So yeah, definitely some some hurt feelings.
[00:08:57] That said, I do think that there was also a lot of pro Bailey
[00:09:01] sentiment, and I think that like a lot of the people on that jury
[00:09:04] really respected the way you played the game.
[00:09:06] When I talked to them in the exit interviews, like right as they were coming out,
[00:09:09] right, a lot of them had you high on their lists of like people
[00:09:12] they thought they would vote for. Wow. In the end. Wow.
[00:09:15] And so I think that like, you know,
[00:09:18] I think the two things can both be true. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:09:21] I think so, too. Yeah.
[00:09:23] Talk to me about spicy because for a long time
[00:09:27] you were working very closely with her. Yes, I was.
[00:09:30] I think I might have described it as like inadvertently sabotaging her game.
[00:09:36] But I thought that she was.
[00:09:37] I know. Exactly.
[00:09:40] Right. That's that's why it was inadvertent.
[00:09:42] Oh, my God. It's hilarious.
[00:09:44] You eventually find out that she has been two, three, four or five timing.
[00:09:52] What are your what are your feelings about spicy right now?
[00:09:55] Um, I know that I was more loyal to spice and then she was to me.
[00:10:00] I'm not shocked that she had other things going on.
[00:10:03] It makes more sense to me now why things happen the way they happened,
[00:10:07] why Anthony knew I did want him out of the game.
[00:10:10] And yeah, I don't hold that against her at all.
[00:10:14] I'm glad I found out when I did, and I don't regret being as loyal as I was to her.
[00:10:18] Like, I think that's why she kept me around for so long,
[00:10:21] because she truly knew how much I was riding with her.
[00:10:25] So I have no regrets about that.
[00:10:27] I don't hold anything against her.
[00:10:28] It all worked out the way it was supposed to work out.
[00:10:30] And I love spicy.
[00:10:32] Did you ever consider keeping her and evicting Lexus at the final five?
[00:10:38] I may have considered that had I not heard about all these other alliances
[00:10:45] and, you know, the vote against me, really.
[00:10:49] I couldn't really get over that.
[00:10:50] The evidence was too strong to know that I really wasn't her number one.
[00:10:54] So for me, keeping someone in the game who says they're your number one,
[00:10:58] but they're not is more dangerous than keeping someone in the game
[00:11:00] that you're not really even working with.
[00:11:02] Yeah.
[00:11:03] It's funny because when spicy cast the sympathy vote,
[00:11:06] I was like, it's not the call.
[00:11:08] It's not the move because they're going to see what you're doing.
[00:11:10] Yeah.
[00:11:11] Avery's going to vote for you anyway.
[00:11:12] Right.
[00:11:12] And then when Anthony did not cast the sympathy vote for Tola,
[00:11:17] Right.
[00:11:18] I was like, see, this is the way you should go.
[00:11:20] But then Tola was very mad about it.
[00:11:22] Well, he was. Oh, my God.
[00:11:23] Is that why he voted for me to win?
[00:11:25] It seems like it.
[00:11:26] Maybe I think my...
[00:11:28] He was really counting on him to vote for him to stay.
[00:11:30] Yeah.
[00:11:31] My guess would be that there was a seed of that.
[00:11:33] He wanted to, like, maybe talk to Anthony about it.
[00:11:36] And then with the sentiment in the jury, it really grew.
[00:11:39] Right. Wow.
[00:11:40] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:11:41] Yeah. No, that sympathy vote was not the right move.
[00:11:44] I told her not to do that and that I would feel a type of way.
[00:11:47] And she did it. So, I mean, she kind of made her bed.
[00:11:50] Yeah. Yeah. All right.
[00:11:51] Well, thank you so much.
[00:11:52] You're welcome. Congratulations.
[00:11:53] Thank you. It was really nice to meet you.
[00:11:55] Nice to meet you, too.
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[00:13:30] Anthony, my guy.
[00:13:32] My man.
[00:13:33] How's it going?
[00:13:34] Good, man. Good.
[00:13:36] Happy to be done.
[00:13:38] I feel proud of myself.
[00:13:41] Wasn't the ultimate, you know, goal.
[00:13:45] I didn't I didn't achieve the ultimate goal that I wanted.
[00:13:47] Yeah.
[00:13:49] But this game is about the journey.
[00:13:51] This game is about, you know, sticking true to your mind
[00:13:55] and seeing what it's truly capable of.
[00:13:57] And I felt like I did a great job at making myself proud.
[00:14:00] And I hope I inspired
[00:14:03] a lot of people that are going through the similar things that I am.
[00:14:07] Yeah.
[00:14:08] I know this was a lot to to come into the game with.
[00:14:13] Yes, sir.
[00:14:14] Did it did it impact the way you played?
[00:14:18] I tried my best
[00:14:20] to leave everything at the door.
[00:14:23] You know, when I went on season seven,
[00:14:25] my mom was going through health issues then,
[00:14:29] and I was worried about that a lot throughout the season.
[00:14:32] This
[00:14:34] the things that I was going through this time were far more severe.
[00:14:39] It wasn't just my mom and her reoccurring health issues.
[00:14:43] I lost my brother.
[00:14:45] I lost my job while I was in sequester.
[00:14:48] But I still decided to do it.
[00:14:50] I still decided to do my best
[00:14:53] to show everybody, you know, not just how much Buck has meant to me,
[00:14:59] but also how powerful my mind is,
[00:15:02] how resilient I am
[00:15:05] and how much I love this game.
[00:15:07] Yeah.
[00:15:08] I mean, I like I think you I think you showed everyone
[00:15:12] two seasons never been put on the block.
[00:15:16] Yeah.
[00:15:17] I mean, nobody's done that.
[00:15:18] Yeah. In the history of the show.
[00:15:19] Yeah.
[00:15:21] It's awesome.
[00:15:22] Yeah.
[00:15:22] I mean, you know, at the end of the day, I'm the big Val Boski, right?
[00:15:27] The sworn protector of the realm and the light skin lord of the north.
[00:15:30] And like I said, regardless if I got,
[00:15:33] you know, the final prize, this has never been about the final prize for me.
[00:15:38] I wanted to play the best.
[00:15:39] I feel like I played the best.
[00:15:42] I didn't get crowned champion, but, you know, that's OK.
[00:15:45] I did everything that I believe I did everything that I could
[00:15:48] to get myself into that final two.
[00:15:51] It didn't go my way, but I'm still so thankful for this experience.
[00:15:54] Yeah. You know, five years ago, I think I was here.
[00:15:59] Yeah. I met you for the first time.
[00:16:01] Yeah. I asked you if you thought I was a lion.
[00:16:04] Yeah. You said you said I was a lion.
[00:16:06] Yeah. You most definitely
[00:16:09] are nothing short of a lion.
[00:16:12] I've been a huge fan of your podcast.
[00:16:15] I love your insight to the game.
[00:16:17] I love the coverage and I love coming on the show.
[00:16:20] And you and I both know any time you call Dougie Licious's number, I'm coming.
[00:16:24] I appreciate you for coming here.
[00:16:27] And again, probably showing me so much love and support out there.
[00:16:29] And my dog.
[00:16:32] Well, you are a lion.
[00:16:34] Yeah. You are, I think, an inspiration.
[00:16:36] You have inspired so many other players, other winners.
[00:16:40] Yeah. And I think that like you have,
[00:16:46] you know, regardless of the outcome tonight,
[00:16:48] I know there's a lot it's a lot to take and you have made your mark
[00:16:51] on this game, on this show.
[00:16:54] And there's a lot to be proud of there.
[00:16:55] Thank you, brother.
[00:16:56] You know, it's one of those situations where you're damned if you do,
[00:17:00] you're damned if you don't.
[00:17:02] You play like a true game player.
[00:17:05] You know, you do everything you need to do to get to the end.
[00:17:08] People hate it.
[00:17:09] You don't do enough.
[00:17:10] People hate it. You're not a game player.
[00:17:12] So I don't really
[00:17:15] care too much about what people think about me.
[00:17:19] I care more about how I feel about myself.
[00:17:21] And I feel like I played one hell of a game, quite possibly one of the best.
[00:17:26] So I'm so thankful.
[00:17:28] I truly hope that a lot of the alumni, you know, saw the dirt that I was doing.
[00:17:33] They saw the work that I put in.
[00:17:36] And like I said, I did everything I could to get to the to the end
[00:17:39] and to sit in those final two chairs.
[00:17:41] And whatever happened, happened.
[00:17:45] What are your feelings about Spicy right now?
[00:17:49] You know, she definitely
[00:17:52] she's been working against you basically since the start, obviously.
[00:17:56] But at the same time, felt like she was being loyal.
[00:17:59] Yeah.
[00:18:01] The vote comes in.
[00:18:02] I think, you know, I think based the perception right now
[00:18:05] is that she probably had a pretty heavy hand and sort of like turning the jury.
[00:18:08] Of course.
[00:18:10] How are you feeling?
[00:18:12] Honestly, I don't feel any ways towards Victoria.
[00:18:17] I think that, you know, it was an honor to be considered an all star in this game.
[00:18:23] You know, I do feel like there's a huge difference
[00:18:26] in the type of games that we play.
[00:18:28] You know, I'm a game player,
[00:18:30] whereas Spicy is more of just a personality.
[00:18:33] So the lies that she was telling to me in the game,
[00:18:38] she left a lot of breadcrumbs behind
[00:18:40] and I was following her like a bloodhound.
[00:18:43] I studied her game.
[00:18:44] I watched her moods.
[00:18:46] I kept up with all of her lies.
[00:18:49] And when I got the opportunity to bite back,
[00:18:52] I did with no remorse.
[00:18:54] So I'm not upset with her for going into the jury house
[00:18:57] and doing everything in her power to make sure I didn't win.
[00:19:01] It's part of the game.
[00:19:02] It's it's totally fair.
[00:19:05] When she walked out and said that,
[00:19:08] you know, all this your trash and Canada is going to see
[00:19:12] and, you know, hot chocolate, this hot chocolate, that it's like,
[00:19:16] you know, Spicy never had a backbone a day in this house.
[00:19:19] So, you know, I did what I had to do to send the regular veteran player
[00:19:24] to the jury house.
[00:19:25] You know, I set a record in this game for,
[00:19:29] you know, most amount of days in the house,
[00:19:33] most amount of days off the block.
[00:19:37] She set a record for house guests with the most amount of days in the jury.
[00:19:41] So that goes to speak a lot for itself.
[00:19:44] But again, I have no no hate towards her.
[00:19:47] I think she played an incredible game and she used her social abilities
[00:19:52] to make sure she soiled the truth in the jury house.
[00:19:57] And she did a very good job of that.
[00:19:59] Tell me about the decision to take Bailey over Lexus.
[00:20:03] I think that from our perspective, at the very least,
[00:20:06] you had a much better chance against Lexus than Bailey.
[00:20:11] Though we don't really know.
[00:20:12] Maybe you have a better idea if you talk to them.
[00:20:14] Right. If you had a chance against Lexus either. Right.
[00:20:18] It seemed like you talked about a lot of it came from the fact
[00:20:21] that you guys were in hot chocolate.
[00:20:22] They talked about you wanting a black woman to win. Right.
[00:20:25] And was there anything else?
[00:20:27] Did it just was it just like it was it was a combination of things.
[00:20:31] I had four women approach me with an alliance called Hot Chocolate.
[00:20:36] Name already made.
[00:20:39] I would have been an idiot to think that they wouldn't have taken their shot at me.
[00:20:42] The first chance they got.
[00:20:44] They're all very social, very strong in competitions.
[00:20:48] So I had to do what I had to do to make them implode.
[00:20:52] And I took every single one of them out.
[00:20:55] My decision came down to what I thought my best chances were to win in the jury.
[00:21:00] I feel like if I brought Lexus, she would have won as well
[00:21:04] with three black women, you know, even though I feel like,
[00:21:09] you know, they they wanted and, you know,
[00:21:13] had a dream of having hot chocolate be successful.
[00:21:17] They just weren't the type of game players to see that through.
[00:21:21] They were going after each other, planting seeds against each other.
[00:21:24] But ultimately, at the end, I feel like over me
[00:21:27] would have definitely voted for one of their own with Tola
[00:21:31] being in the jury house.
[00:21:33] You know, I was also worried because, well, he loved Lexus
[00:21:36] and with spicy going in the liar that she is.
[00:21:40] It was, you know, very difficult for me to think that
[00:21:43] he would have a mind of his own.
[00:21:45] You know, when when players go, you know, you have to look at
[00:21:48] who goes into the jury house when right with Todd
[00:21:52] being the final member to go into the jury house
[00:21:54] to make things right and to explain things.
[00:21:57] He's not it's not really the best person
[00:22:01] to to to stand up for what's right and to tell the truth.
[00:22:05] He himself didn't really have a clue of what was going on this entire season.
[00:22:10] So, you know, I made a very difficult decision
[00:22:13] that was very heartbreaking for me.
[00:22:16] But I just really had to factor in what were my best chances.
[00:22:21] I felt like Bailey played a weaker game than Lexus.
[00:22:26] I didn't think she would have as much respect in the jury house.
[00:22:29] So that's why I took it.
[00:22:30] Yeah. Well, talk to me a little bit more about Bailey, because she won.
[00:22:36] It did seem like for whatever reason, you know, she was left out of a lot of things.
[00:22:40] Yeah. But she was always sort of the one that was able to convince spicy
[00:22:45] to kind of like do things that were in Bailey's interest.
[00:22:48] Yeah. Not really anybody else's. Right.
[00:22:50] What was it about her that got her to the got her to that position?
[00:22:54] Bailey was very animated
[00:22:58] in her pitches to people.
[00:23:01] You could literally feel her anxiety
[00:23:06] and not a lot of people wanted to deal with that.
[00:23:08] So, you know, when you're when you're having a conversation with her,
[00:23:12] like on the other side and also on my side,
[00:23:15] it's very difficult to explain things to her because if it were not in her way,
[00:23:19] she would just freak out.
[00:23:21] I realized that Bailey was on the low end of the totem pole with the girls
[00:23:27] throughout the majority of the season,
[00:23:29] and I thought it would be best to kind of scoop her under my wing
[00:23:34] and use the advantages of having her on my side when it came to voting,
[00:23:39] when it came to understanding
[00:23:43] and seeing things my way.
[00:23:44] So definitely a well-deserved winner.
[00:23:47] I'm very proud of her.
[00:23:49] And she played she played a great game.
[00:23:52] All right. Well, Anthony, that's all we got time for.
[00:23:55] Our hat, baby.
[00:23:57] Lexus, hello. Hi.
[00:23:59] How's it going? Good. Yeah, I feel great. Yeah.
[00:24:03] Surprising results tonight, to say the least.
[00:24:05] I think a lot of people were thinking that that H.O.H.
[00:24:10] was the battle between who was going to take Lexus to the top.
[00:24:14] I know.
[00:24:16] How shocked were you when he took Bailey?
[00:24:19] Honestly, my heart sank, but there was a piece of me that had a feeling
[00:24:25] that he knew he probably wouldn't win against me.
[00:24:27] And that might take precedence in this moment, which it did.
[00:24:31] He obviously wanted to win and didn't care about
[00:24:34] mine in his history throughout the game or the loyalty that I've had towards him.
[00:24:38] And that's OK. Yeah.
[00:24:39] You know, I feel like maybe should have suspected
[00:24:44] that you wouldn't take it lightly, considering that like
[00:24:47] when the women took Matt out, it was like a revenge thriller.
[00:24:50] Yeah. On a warpath.
[00:24:52] Yeah. Talk to me about that.
[00:24:55] So obviously, when Matt got out, it was really difficult.
[00:24:58] Anthony was a huge support system for that.
[00:25:00] We were a support system for each other.
[00:25:01] So having had experience that himself,
[00:25:04] I was surprised that he would want to put me through that
[00:25:08] and just, I don't know, potentially take something so amazing away from me.
[00:25:12] But it is what it is.
[00:25:14] And I just I think Bailey really deserved to win.
[00:25:17] And so I find peace in that.
[00:25:19] And I'm trying to just remind myself that. Yeah.
[00:25:23] Do you have any idea like how it would have gone if he had taken you instead?
[00:25:27] If he'd taken me, one thing that Spicy didn't expose, she exposed hot chocolate,
[00:25:31] but she didn't expose hotter chocolate, which was me and the three girls,
[00:25:35] Avery, Kayla and Spice.
[00:25:37] And so I do think hopefully I would have had their votes,
[00:25:40] which is three huge votes. Yeah.
[00:25:43] That he maybe he was aware of, but not not.
[00:25:48] He didn't hear it in words.
[00:25:50] Yeah. When I talked to many of the members of the jury on their way out,
[00:25:55] they they didn't seem to really see a lot of your game.
[00:25:59] Yeah. And they didn't seem super high on the idea of voting for you.
[00:26:03] However, by the time I talked to Todd, he was like,
[00:26:07] I think Lexus beats Anthony right now. Yeah.
[00:26:09] So so it seems like there was maybe a little bit of like a maybe,
[00:26:14] maybe not going on there, but it's hard to say at this point.
[00:26:19] But talk to me about your journey with hotter chocolate, because
[00:26:23] a lot was said
[00:26:26] about you in the beginning of the game,
[00:26:29] especially with the women.
[00:26:30] It felt like there was a divide that was happening
[00:26:34] that like they felt like they couldn't trust you.
[00:26:37] They felt like you shouldn't be given information, stuff like that.
[00:26:42] And you've talked about it on the show.
[00:26:44] Like, you know, you gravitated toward Matt.
[00:26:47] But I think, you know, where do you think that really came from?
[00:26:49] Because it really did seem to be an immediate reaction to you
[00:26:53] as opposed to like a reaction to something you had done first.
[00:26:56] Does that make sense?
[00:26:57] Yeah, I think I go through this in like my daily life.
[00:27:00] So it's nothing that I haven't not experienced before.
[00:27:03] And I was very familiar with it.
[00:27:04] I understand that I have a certain type of aura about me that I give off
[00:27:09] that might be a little bit intimidating.
[00:27:11] And I am an unconventional person.
[00:27:13] I listen a lot more than I speak.
[00:27:15] And so I tend to sit and observe my environments
[00:27:19] and where I think I would feel safe is where I lean towards.
[00:27:22] And that's where I decide to open up and flourish in front of very particular people.
[00:27:26] I just think that being exclusive is a lost art.
[00:27:29] And I really try to embrace that about myself of not giving myself to everyone.
[00:27:35] And so those girls viewed it as a lack of trust when really it is
[00:27:39] the most important quality you could have in someone.
[00:27:42] And they didn't know what they were missing out on.
[00:27:44] Yeah, you just seem like the chillest person in the world.
[00:27:47] I know, everyone says that.
[00:27:49] You're just like always just like so calm.
[00:27:52] OK, I hope so.
[00:27:53] Like, I hope it's like a sense of peace for people, you know?
[00:27:55] I mean, I don't know. I think I would.
[00:27:58] Who knows? I guess maybe in a game where you're like really looking for reassurance.
[00:28:02] Yes, it's tough.
[00:28:04] But I was like, I'm not your man.
[00:28:05] I don't need to reassure you every day.
[00:28:07] So speaking of men.
[00:28:12] What are what have you talked to Matt yet?
[00:28:15] We had like a brief conversation.
[00:28:16] He says that my mom texts him every day, which is so like her.
[00:28:20] But he's just such a great guy and I can't wait to see him.
[00:28:23] I really missed him.
[00:28:24] And it was so good to see his face because I'm like, that's one person I can trust.
[00:28:28] Right.
[00:28:30] Yeah, it's it's it sounded like, you know, there were some
[00:28:33] there's some love words thrown around.
[00:28:35] Yeah, a little bit.
[00:28:38] It's hard, though, because we're in a place where like
[00:28:40] we tell everyone that we love each other.
[00:28:41] And for us, it's kind of like like love you.
[00:28:43] But like, yeah, you know, treading a little lightly.
[00:28:45] So it's just a little
[00:28:48] something to explore.
[00:28:49] Yeah. OK.
[00:28:50] So I'm going to explore.
[00:28:51] If you had been in part three of the final trajectory, were you playing along?
[00:28:56] I'm playing along.
[00:28:58] Yeah. Like what would you would you have answered?
[00:29:00] Do you think you would have been able to do well?
[00:29:03] I don't know.
[00:29:03] I was like listening to some of the questions and I'm like,
[00:29:06] but I know what I'm good at and I know what I'm not.
[00:29:09] I don't know how I would have done.
[00:29:10] It would have definitely been a lot of luck that I was relying on.
[00:29:14] OK. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it was it was an intense one.
[00:29:17] It was tough.
[00:29:18] You didn't seem like you enjoyed the stacking in part two.
[00:29:21] Yeah. No, no, no.
[00:29:25] I was I was over it.
[00:29:27] So you talked, you did mention in your goodbye messages
[00:29:31] to some of the women that you did still want to go to the end with women.
[00:29:35] If you had won the final three HOH, what did you plan to do?
[00:29:40] For the longest time, I had always told myself I wanted it to be me and Anthony,
[00:29:44] even between the hot chocolate and the hot chocolate girls.
[00:29:47] I wanted it to be me and Anthony just because I found the sense of
[00:29:51] I have a best friend who's very much like him.
[00:29:52] And it brought me excuse me.
[00:29:55] It brought me a lot of comfort.
[00:29:57] So I wanted to stay true to my word.
[00:29:59] But as time went on and I was really dissecting both Anthony and Bailey's game,
[00:30:04] I'm like, maybe Bailey would be the better option.
[00:30:06] And it was hard because I'm like, I can take Anthony or I can take Bailey.
[00:30:10] It would be amazing to also see two women sitting up there.
[00:30:13] And she really does deserve to win.
[00:30:15] She's been honest, loyal, very much herself.
[00:30:18] And so it was towards the end.
[00:30:21] It could have been a last minute decision that I made,
[00:30:24] but I wasn't 100 percent locked in.
[00:30:27] How are you feeling about Anthony right now?
[00:30:30] Um, it hasn't fully set in because I really did think
[00:30:35] me and him had a lot of similarities.
[00:30:37] And for me, like I said, I probably would have taken him to final two.
[00:30:41] I took him to final three
[00:30:44] because I'm just I mean what I say.
[00:30:47] And yes, winning this game is great and it is just a game.
[00:30:54] But at the same time, this is you as a person.
[00:30:57] It is who you are, who you want to be, how you want people to view you.
[00:31:02] And I just think that
[00:31:05] he went back on a lot of the things that he said
[00:31:07] and portrayed himself to be a way that I don't really know anymore
[00:31:11] if that's how he is in real life. So I don't know.
[00:31:13] So you're not sure where where we'll go?
[00:31:15] Yeah, I'm not sure.
[00:31:16] Like I don't hold like resentment towards people and I get it.
[00:31:19] It was a good game move.
[00:31:20] I was thinking about voting for him, but yeah, it was a little shady.
[00:31:25] Yeah. So you thought about voting for him at the end there?
[00:31:28] I thought, yeah, I was going back and forth.
[00:31:29] And then I definitely was like Bailey deserves to win.
[00:31:33] Do you think that like
[00:31:35] could you tell the vibe of the jury with that kind of like
[00:31:39] that as well? Yeah.
[00:31:40] And then their final pleas, I think Anthony dug his grave a little bit
[00:31:43] by telling people that their wins weren't as big of wins as his.
[00:31:47] And just like just saying like little comments and things.
[00:31:50] It was it was unnecessary. So, yeah. Yeah.
[00:31:53] How do you feel about the game overall?
[00:31:56] That you like, were you a big fan coming in?
[00:31:59] I was a fan, but not a super fan.
[00:32:02] It's not like I like studied this game and watched everything.
[00:32:05] So I really had to try to navigate this on the fly.
[00:32:09] But I think the game is amazing.
[00:32:11] It's a huge social experiment.
[00:32:14] And like I said, I would do it again.
[00:32:16] I would do it again.
[00:32:18] All right. Well, thank you so much. Thank you.
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